Author Topic: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?  (Read 5294 times)

Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« on: 24 January, 2015, 10:37:45 am »
What is it with football managers?  Cambridge Utd (division 4) 0  Manchester Utd (division 1) 0

Manchester's manager Van Gaal complains gracelessly "Everything was against us, the pitch, the referee..."

Certainly there were a few bobbles but Cambridge were playing on the same pitch.  Does he think that they actually know where all the lumps are and play accordingly.  What a charmless so-and-so.  It wasn't even a humiliation because to be humiliated by a lower division side you have to be supposedly better than they are and Manchester United are astonishingly ordinary at the moment.

woollypigs

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Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #1 on: 24 January, 2015, 11:24:44 am »
From my little memory/interest I have regarding football.

Just after '92 where Denmark was the team in Europe. They went to play one of the Baltic states and lost, can't remember the score. But the papers etc lynched the team. One of the Laudrup brothers, I think, said something like - they are not very good at playing football and we are used to play against top internationals, so they didn't understand our way of playing and didn't fall for our tricks and dribbling skills.

Sorry dude you got beaten in a fair and square game against a team that you were so sure would be a walk in the park and didn't commit to. They just had more reason to play their guts out - if they lost while playing their best they just lost to a better team, but if they won, even with one goal/point/split second, they had a double WIN.
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Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #2 on: 24 January, 2015, 11:26:15 am »
Surprise, surprise, Cambridge United were against them

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The opponents also always give a lot more than normal.
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Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #3 on: 24 January, 2015, 11:49:00 am »
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Van Gaal - just like all the rest?


You appear a little surprised by that.

Wowbagger

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Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #4 on: 24 January, 2015, 01:19:25 pm »
Manchester United did really well and I thing van Gaal should take away the positives from his team's performance.*

ISTR my younger son telling me that a friend from university was absolutely torn when his "big" team, Leeds Units, played his "small" team, Histon United, Cambridge's close neighbours. Histon won, of course.

*Have I got the jargon right?
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Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #5 on: 24 January, 2015, 02:10:54 pm »
Quote
Van Gaal - just like all the rest?


You appear a little surprised by that.

Ha!  Not at all!  It's football, so I'm putting the boot in.  I support Newcastle, so, in the strangulated lyrics of David Gates, "It's all that's left me to"!

LEE

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Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #6 on: 25 January, 2015, 12:19:16 pm »
Following Saturday's results the Manchester United draw at Cambridge looks rather impressive now.
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

simonp

Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #7 on: 25 January, 2015, 01:34:20 pm »
I missed most of the match but what I saw looked very scrappy, little sign of quality from Manchester United.

Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #8 on: 25 January, 2015, 02:43:01 pm »
True.  They were relying on Phil Jones to do almost everything and he's not a brilliant player anyway.  I have a fantasy in which the divisions are abolished and everybody has to play everybody.  Obviously the season would have to go on for ever but I think over time there would be a great levelling out with most teams from Chelsea (the possible exception) to Forest Green all having roughly the same number of points after a while and it staying like that.  There's all this money sloshing around and there has been no improvement in skill that I can see.

The cup is the nearest we have got to this and it is great.  The only totally predictable thing in the cup is that Newcastle won't get past the third round if they play someone lower than themselves!

Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #9 on: 25 January, 2015, 03:02:45 pm »
Brought up in Manchester* (and yes, a United supporter since the late 60s, there are load of 'em up there you know  ;) ),
watched the game on tv and was embarrassed to admit that United looked ordinary.


(*Now in Centre for the Cotswolds.)

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Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #10 on: 25 January, 2015, 08:09:02 pm »
Surely this is the type of result we're supposed to get in the FA Cup? Perhaps partly because 'big' teams sometimes don't take 'little' ones seriously, or don't take the competition seriously, preferring to concentrate on the Premier League or Champions League.
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Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #11 on: 25 January, 2015, 08:20:38 pm »
I haven't seen the team sheets for Chelsea or Manchester City but Manchester United seemed to have a first team out, with the possible exception of Rooney, who's not as good as his publicity in any case.  When you look at the money these teams spend on players who rarely start and are just bought to prevent them playing for opposing teams, then I think they are just not very good.  The football played in the Premier League is astonishingly average.  I don't know where this idea that it is the best league in the world came from.  If all the others are worse, that's really depressing.

Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #12 on: 25 January, 2015, 08:45:13 pm »
I rather like watching matches played on lower division pitches with much smaller stadiums and lumpy pitches.

They should show more of them.   MU played ok; Cambridge played better (I watched quite a bit of the game)
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Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #13 on: 25 January, 2015, 10:11:04 pm »
From my little memory/interest I have regarding football.

Just after '92 where Denmark was the team in Europe. They went to play one of the Baltic states and lost, can't remember the score. But the papers etc lynched the team. One of the Laudrup brothers, I think, said something like - they are not very good at playing football and we are used to play against top internationals, so they didn't understand our way of playing and didn't fall for our tricks and dribbling skills.

Sorry dude you got beaten in a fair and square game against a team that you were so sure would be a walk in the park and didn't commit to. They just had more reason to play their guts out - if they lost while playing their best they just lost to a better team, but if they won, even with one goal/point/split second, they had a double WIN.

That was, if I remember correctly, in september 1992, against Lithuania in the Zalgiris Vilnius stadium (I lived in Vilnius at that time). I got a mild culture shock (as did most of the locals) seeing the Danish fans in the that time still post communist setting of Vilnius city center.

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Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #14 on: 25 January, 2015, 10:48:43 pm »
I haven't seen the team sheets for Chelsea or Manchester City but Manchester United seemed to have a first team out, with the possible exception of Rooney, who's not as good as his publicity in any case.  When you look at the money these teams spend on players who rarely start and are just bought to prevent them playing for opposing teams, then I think they are just not very good.  The football played in the Premier League is astonishingly average.  I don't know where this idea that it is the best league in the world came from.  If all the others are worse, that's really depressing.

I think best = most money in this case
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LEE

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Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #15 on: 25 January, 2015, 10:53:14 pm »
Brought up in Manchester* (and yes, a United supporter since the late 60s, there are load of 'em up there you know  ;) ),
watched the game on tv and was embarrassed to admit that United looked ordinary.


(*Now in Centre for the Cotswolds.)

Ordinary sums them up since Fergie left (although I think he saw "ordinary" on the horizon and chose his moment perfectly)
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

LEE

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Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #16 on: 25 January, 2015, 10:59:55 pm »
I don't know where this idea that it is the best league in the world came from.  If all the others are worse, that's really depressing.

I haven't actually heard anyone say that for a few years to be honest.

We have some of the best foreign talent, but not THE best.

People like watching the Premiership for reasons that an overall lack of talent produce.  It's end-to-end, we don't sit on a 1-0 lead..and so on.

They're the sort of reasons that result in us generally being knocked out of the top tournaments at an early stage.

There is a virtual "Premiership" in Europe now. A Premiership that involves the top 2 teams from England, Spain, Italy, Germany...err...a few others who meet in the Champions League.
Those teams are almost indistinguishable from each other in that they don't reflect a national identity.
German teams being a possible exception.

The only common factor is the almost total lack of English players in any of the top teams.

It's because totally average "Cart Horses" such as James Milner seem to command £20million pound price tags.
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Wowbagger

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Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #17 on: 25 January, 2015, 11:05:38 pm »
True.  They were relying on Phil Jones to do almost everything and he's not a brilliant player anyway.  I have a fantasy in which the divisions are abolished and everybody has to play everybody.  Obviously the season would have to go on for ever but I think over time there would be a great levelling out with most teams from Chelsea (the possible exception) to Forest Green all having roughly the same number of points after a while and it staying like that.  There's all this money sloshing around and there has been no improvement in skill that I can see.

The cup is the nearest we have got to this and it is great.  The only totally predictable thing in the cup is that Newcastle won't get past the third round if they play someone lower than themselves!

How about a 40-round Swiss-paired competition? That would be very amusing.
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Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #18 on: 26 January, 2015, 12:23:09 am »
Can I check if that is a chess reference, mate?

Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #19 on: 26 January, 2015, 12:28:51 am »
I must have seen a different bit of the interview - I heard Van Gaal comment that his team improved in the second half, and he praised the atmosphere on the night.

Media taking quotes out of context? No, they wouldn't do that.

Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #20 on: 26 January, 2015, 12:45:35 am »
I got it off teletext - so it must be right!  I may be being unreasonable myself, it wouldn't be the first time.  Manchester United does that to you after a while, although it never did when Bobby Charlton played for them!

Wowbagger

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Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #21 on: 26 January, 2015, 12:47:45 am »
Can I check if that is a chess reference, mate?

Yes, it is. Swiss pairing is very common in chess tournaments when there are too many competitors/not enough rounds for an all-play-all, and that is most competitions.

In a Swiss-paired chess event, most are seeded, so for round 1 you put your players in order of perceived strength and then the top half plays the bottom half, in which colours (B or W) are alternated. For subsequent rounds you divide them into score groups and then repeat the procedure for each score groups.

The pairing rules are as follows:

no two players are allowed to play twice;
as far as possible opponents are in the same score group. Where this is not possible (an odd number in a score group) the "floating" player takes an opponent from the next score group down;
pairings are made to try to equalise the number of whites and blacks (for football, you could substitute home and away);
pairings are made to try to alternate the number of whites and blacks.

There are other lesser rules, eg the controller will try to avoid pairing relatives or members from the same club, although this will not apply in later rounds when prize money is at stake.
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Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #22 on: 26 January, 2015, 12:55:31 am »
Thanks, P.  On a cursory glance, that looks as if you don't necessarily go out if you lose a match, which seems good, or have I misinterpreted that?

Wowbagger

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Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #23 on: 26 January, 2015, 08:23:26 am »
That's right. For the second round, all the first round winners play one another in one group, those who drew play one another in a second group, and those who lost play in the third group. For round 3, 1 point will be the mean, and the largest group. It doesn't matter about the order in which you got the points, you are all in the 1-point group. In chess, one point is awarded for a win, 0 for a loss, 1/2 for a draw.
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Re: Van Gaal - just like all the rest?
« Reply #24 on: 26 January, 2015, 10:09:04 am »
Thanks.  That seems like a good system for maintaining interest and for making it worth travelling.