Author Topic: Pedestrian killed by cyclist  (Read 31436 times)

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #25 on: 08 July, 2008, 12:41:41 pm »
So some reports say pavement others say road.  At the end of the day someone was killed by the actions of that cyclist.

Does the CCTV show road or pavement?  So if it was on the road was it alright?  And if on the pavement do we hang him now or wait till the verdict?

tiermat

  • According to Jane, I'm a Unisex SpaceAdmin
Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #26 on: 08 July, 2008, 12:42:31 pm »
So some reports say pavement others say road.  At the end of the day someone was killed by the actions of that cyclist.

My point exactly, along with how it will reflect on the rest of the cycling public....
I feel like Captain Kirk, on a brand new planet every day, a little like King Kong on top of the Empire State

spindrift

Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #27 on: 08 July, 2008, 12:43:07 pm »
At the end of the day someone was killed by the actions of that cyclist.

Woah! No need for a trial then!

Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #28 on: 08 July, 2008, 12:44:09 pm »
So some reports say pavement others say road.  At the end of the day someone was killed by the actions of that cyclist.

At the end of the day, that decision is up to the court.

Of course, depending on context 'pavement' can be validly used to mean 'road surface'...  ::-)
Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #29 on: 08 July, 2008, 12:44:42 pm »
At the end of the day someone was killed by the actions of that cyclist.

Woah! No need for a trial then!
He admitted hitting her.

spindrift

Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #30 on: 08 July, 2008, 12:46:15 pm »
He admitted hitting her.

In the road, he maintains.

I've had kids push each other in front of me before.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #31 on: 08 July, 2008, 12:47:14 pm »
So some reports say pavement others say road.  At the end of the day someone was killed by the actions of that cyclist.

At the end of the day, that decision is up to the court.

Of course, depending on context 'pavement' can be validly used to mean 'road surface'...  ::-)

I believe that the girl is dead, she was hit by that cyclist.  Doubt anyone can argue about that.

I believe that, in this case with the admission of guilt, the court set the penance for the crime ???

spindrift

Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #32 on: 08 July, 2008, 12:47:48 pm »
I believe that, in this case with the admission of guilt


What admission?

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #33 on: 08 July, 2008, 12:47:55 pm »
At the end of the day someone was killed by the actions of that cyclist.

Woah! No need for a trial then!
He admitted hitting her.


Doesn't mean that he was responsible for her death.  The 'eggshell skull' rule is not automatic.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #34 on: 08 July, 2008, 12:48:37 pm »
There has been no admission of guilt.  He is denying the charges.

He has admitted that he hit her but maintains that she stepped out in front of him, something that it would appear was originally supported by the statements of some of those she was with.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #35 on: 08 July, 2008, 12:49:30 pm »
He admitted hitting her.

In the road, he maintains.

I've had kids push each other in front of me before.

I doubt we will know the truth, was there CCTV of the actual incident?  Until that is released there is only conjecture what happened.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #36 on: 08 July, 2008, 12:57:35 pm »
I believe that, in this case with the admission of guilt


What admission?

He stated he did not take any avoiding action.  Just a shout of get out of my way I'm not stopping.  The girl is dead?  She was hit by the chap on the cycle?

If this had been a lorry killing the cyclist I sure there would be different views.

Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #37 on: 08 July, 2008, 01:00:11 pm »

But if you kill someone with a car, it isn't murder or manslaughter - simply a 'tragic accident' where no-one is to blame...  :-\ ;)

There does appear to be an exception where the car is deliberately used as a weapon. The report says it was deliberate, but not how this is known.

Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #38 on: 08 July, 2008, 01:00:57 pm »
I believe that, in this case with the admission of guilt


What admission?

He stated he did not take any avoiding action.  Just a shout of get out of my way I'm not stopping.  The girl is dead?  She was hit by the chap on the cycle?

If this had been a lorry killing the cyclist I sure there would be different views.

I think we're in danger of catching kangaroos.

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #39 on: 08 July, 2008, 01:03:46 pm »
I believe that, in this case with the admission of guilt


What admission?

He stated he did not take any avoiding action.  Just a shout of get out of my way I'm not stopping.  The girl is dead?  She was hit by the chap on the cycle?

If this had been a lorry killing the cyclist I sure there would be different views.

I refer you to my post above.

He is denying the charge - he has not admitted his guilt. 

He says she stepped out in front of him and this appears to have been supported by the early statements of those who were with her.  We will not know the full facts until the case is complete.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #40 on: 08 July, 2008, 01:05:33 pm »
So some reports say pavement others say road.  At the end of the day someone was killed by the actions of that cyclist.

My point exactly, along with how it will reflect on the rest of the cycling public....

What about if she was killed because of the actions of another member of her group of friends pushing her out in front of him?   

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #41 on: 08 July, 2008, 01:06:44 pm »
So some reports say pavement others say road.  At the end of the day someone was killed by the actions of that cyclist.

My point exactly, along with how it will reflect on the rest of the cycling public....

What about if she was killed because of the actions of another member of her group of friends pushing her out in front of him?   


Given that the statements of those with her have changed over time, I fear we shall never know.  But the thought had crossed my mind about whether this was a 'prank' gone wrong...
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

fuzzy

Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #42 on: 08 July, 2008, 01:10:44 pm »
Several points.

Speed of cyclist before the accident? The CCTV could cover the stretch of road immediatly prior to the accident scene. A competent Accident Investigator will take measurements of the road including ditances between identifiable features on the CCTV image. Time the cyclist on CCTV between these points will give a speed range. This will take into account the time lapse on some CCTV systems.

Did not take avoiding action? Two sides to this point. Anti cyclist- knew he was likely to hit the girl but did bugger all about it. Pro cyclist- thought he was far enough from the girl that a collision was not likely in the normal course of events.

Struck her head on the pavement? You can be standing/ walking on either the pavement or road and strike your head on the pavement in a fall. In the same way that 'She struck her head on the road' would not tell you if she fell over in the road or fell from the pavement into the road.

Admission that he hit her? 'Yes Officer. I was riding my bike and I hit the car in front of me.' Am I admitting that I rode into a car that wasclearly visible in front of me or am I admitting that I hit a car that SMIDSY'd me?

Whatever the truth is and I hope the Court discovers it, this is a sad story poorly reported.

Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #43 on: 08 July, 2008, 01:14:15 pm »
The Metro seems to have more detailed info.
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=208306&in_page_id=34

It clearly says he mounted the pavement

"A cyclist killed a teenage girl when he mounted the pavement after refusing to brake or swerve, a court has heard.

Jason Howard was riding towards a group of teenagers when he shouted: 'Move – because I'm not stopping,' a witness told the jury.
"

But then there is this:

"After the collision, Howard put Rhian­non in the ­recovery position.

'He was rubbing his chest and was shouting at her. I think he shook her to see if she was conscious,' added the boy.
"
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #44 on: 08 July, 2008, 01:16:14 pm »
Well-said Fuzzy...

I'd just add this:

He stated he did not take any avoiding action.  Just a shout of get out of my way I'm not stopping. 

Quote
Jason Howard, 36, was allegedly heard shouting "move because I'm not stopping"

Apart from an impact and a death, we have no facts whatsoever - only allegations and conjecture. One for the courts to sort out, not us.

A terrible waste, whatever happened...  :-[
Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #45 on: 08 July, 2008, 01:16:24 pm »
The Metro seems to have more detailed info.
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=208306&in_page_id=34

It clearly says he mounted the pavement

"A cyclist killed a teenage girl when he mounted the pavement after refusing to brake or swerve, a court has heard.

Jason Howard was riding towards a group of teenagers when he shouted: 'Move – because I'm not stopping,' a witness told the jury.
"

But then there is this:

"After the collision, Howard put Rhian­non in the ­recovery position.

'He was rubbing his chest and was shouting at her. I think he shook her to see if she was conscious,' added the boy.
"


Sorry - but the Metro is about as reliable a source as a blind 92 year old with Alzheimer's.... ;D
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #46 on: 08 July, 2008, 01:18:48 pm »
The Metro seems to have more detailed info.
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=208306&in_page_id=34

It clearly says he mounted the pavement

Prosecution: The prosecution would like to submit Today's Metro Newspaper as undeniable evidence that the cyclist mounted the pavement.

Judge: Guilty!

Try reading the other reports in the other papers/websites and decide whether you believe the Metro's sensationalist version.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Pingu

  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
  • Mrs Pingu's domestique
    • the Igloo
Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #47 on: 08 July, 2008, 01:19:32 pm »
...It clearly says he mounted the pavement...

No it does not. It says a witness claims he mounted the pavement (according to your quotes).

Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #48 on: 08 July, 2008, 01:20:04 pm »
Quote
Sorry - but the Metro is about as reliable a source as a blind 92 year old with Alzheimer's....

I have to agree. That report makes no sense - why move from the road to the pavement?  ???
Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Pedestrian killed by cyclist
« Reply #49 on: 08 July, 2008, 01:25:28 pm »
Quote
Sorry - but the Metro is about as reliable a source as a blind 92 year old with Alzheimer's....

I have to agree. That report makes no sense - why move from the road to the pavement?  ???

Short cut is mentioned in the article.