Super bright flashing bloody lights

[simonp]

Lumen is a useless measurement as it is the total amount of light emitted.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Hmm, I've heard other people complain about weak brackets on those lights - at least on the dynamo version, maybe it's a different bracket though. OTOH I've read some glowing reviews of its performance.

[simonp]

They are the clamp and screw type. They work ok. Mine have done all my pbp qualifiers and pbp itself. I carried a spare after breaking the tab that locks it in place. I would say its a possible failure point. I have not seen anything remotely comparable in terms of performance as a road light.

[mattc]

Surely the point is that by directing the vast majority of the light on the road, no one's going to get an eyeful of it. Unless they're in a low recumbent. 

Or there's a hill.  Or a pothole.  Or whatever.  See the above arguments about car headlights.

Car headlights DID NOT USED TO BE THIS BAD. I've been driving for maybe 20 years, and it has got much worse quite recently (not everyone has a brand new car, so the time variance is blurred).

My guess is that the light is more focused either to the centre or the upper edge of the beam. I don't own such headlights so it's hard to say. (Efficiency has improved, so no doubt that has exarcebated the problem.)

HOWEVER they DO 'flash' other road users more than - say - 15 years ago.

So the problem IS avoidable.

[Wendy]

Been tested for cataracts, Matt?    

[mattc]

Been tested for cataracts, Matt?    

What? Speak up!

Why do young people mumble these days?

[greenmeansgo]

Andy: hate away:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwJwMMwThjQ

Awesome - what light is that? I'm sure it's been said somewhere in this thread already, but I can't find where.

[Wendy]

It's a Dinotte 400L - but now I want a DesignShine. Apparently the DesignShine makes the Dinotte look like a Cateye rear light, i.e. just about invisible. The Dinotte is quite bright, but not soul-destroyingly so. It's probably not remarkably different to car brake lights, but the flash pattern makes it considerably more offensive than the fixed-on setting.

Must admit I felt a bit guilty about forgetting to turn it onto a group ride friendly setting on that ride, and on the more recent one with h_W.

I'm slightly sceptical that the Phillips light Simon is on about is really that good.  I mean I'm sure it's a very good light, but I'm sceptical about it having any chance at all of competing with a modern super light like teethgrinder's Exposure SixPack (2000 lumens, almost), or even a more down-to-earth MaXx-D.  Of course I'm with everyone who thinks that our LED lights really ought to have better optics closer to those on car headlights to allow for proper dip and full beam settings.

[Hot Flatus]

I have one. Had the original one LED rear as well (think Jellied has it now). Incredibly bright and needs to be pointed down, otherwise it is like strobing fog lights.

I don't think brighter will help you, Wendy, ou but a higher up light would. As well as testing my lights with other people using them, I take an interest in the comments colleagues make if they pass me on my commute. Interestingly, it isn't the Dinotte that they notice buy the 1/2 watt smart on the back of my helmet. They notice it because it is high up and they can see it even if there are cars between them and me.

[Wendy]

Oh, I'm not worried about people not noticing me. I want a remote button for the light to GET THE FUCK OFF MY REAR and stop tailgating me. 

[Mr Arch]

Car headlights DID NOT USED TO BE THIS BAD. I've been driving for maybe 20 years, and it has got much worse quite recently

I've been driving almost 30 years.
During that time cars had headlights with 45/55W dip/main tungsten lamps.  They then changed to 55/60W halogen, and now HiD.

Even ignoring the illegal lamps, the output has risen from the lamps from a yellowish glow to high intensity blue white light.  That allows greater illumination for the increasing amount of high speed driving but has has made lighting more of a problem in urban conditions and when headlight aim is poor.

We could go back to 45/55W tungsten and we could also return to candles.  Maybe what is needed is legal lower power urban lighting on motor vehicles in areas with street lighting.  But how many drivers would remember, or bother, switching their light output to suit.

Maybe for cycle lights a large illuminated area would be more effective then tiny lenses.

[Euan Uzami]

It's a Dinotte 400L - but now I want a DesignShine. Apparently the DesignShine makes the Dinotte look like a Cateye rear light, i.e. just about invisible. The Dinotte is quite bright, but not soul-destroyingly so. It's probably not remarkably different to car brake lights, but the flash pattern makes it considerably more offensive than the fixed-on setting.

Must admit I felt a bit guilty about forgetting to turn it onto a group ride friendly setting on that ride, and on the more recent one with h_W.

I'm slightly sceptical that the Phillips light Simon is on about is really that good.  I mean I'm sure it's a very good light, but I'm sceptical about it having any chance at all of competing with a modern super light like teethgrinder's Exposure SixPack (2000 lumens, almost), or even a more down-to-earth MaXx-D.  Of course I'm with everyone who thinks that our LED lights really ought to have better optics closer to those on car headlights to allow for proper dip and full beam settings.

jesus that looks nice, have you enquired as to availability?

[mattc]

...
 but has has made lighting more of a problem in urban conditions and when headlight aim is poor.

We could go back to 45/55W tungsten and we could also return to candles.  Maybe what is needed is legal lower power urban lighting on motor vehicles in areas with street lighting.  But how many drivers would remember, or bother, switching their light output to suit.

Completely agree. Don't forget that the law ONLY requires sidelights in lit urban areas, as was discussed here:
http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=53453.msg1090094#msg1090094

It would be nice to think that road users would turn down their lights - when appropriate - because they notice how nice it is when others do so 

[Cudzoziemiec]

Dim-dip was intended to address a different problem (by making it impossible to drive on sidelights alone) but gave a similar solution.

[DrMekon]

I'm slightly sceptical that the Phillips light Simon is on about is really that good.  I mean I'm sure it's a very good light, but I'm sceptical about it having any chance at all of competing with a modern super light like teethgrinder's Exposure SixPack (2000 lumens, almost), or even a more down-to-earth MaXx-D.  Of course I'm with everyone who thinks that our LED lights really ought to have better optics closer to those on car headlights to allow for proper dip and full beam settings.

Don't be. The floody magicshine and exposure lights are obviously better for trails, but they are putting 2/3rd their light in the sky and hedgerows. In terms of light on the road, the Philips looks better to me. In terms of being seen, obviously, the floody lights have the "my eyes are burning" factor on their side, but nobody could fail to notice the Philips. It's spread of light is somewhat intimidating without being antisocial like the magicshine lights.

That said, if I was riding a lowracer through central london, and I had a family at home waiting for me, I'd probably use the magicshines. From your videos, on your route you need all the help you can get.

[Hot Flatus]

Well, we've had discussions before about the unsuitability of lowriders on busy urban roads, but best avoided as Wendy gets very touchy about it.

[Wendy]

1/3rd of 2000 lumens is not 200 lumens.

I have very few videos at all where someone didn't see me. I like powerful lights because they alter the way drivers treat me. Mostly, I don't want to be seen as a cyclist, because being seen as a cyclist immediately results in less good treatment and more taking the mickey by some of the less skilled drivers. I love how you (it's a general you, so many people seem to do this) jump on the being seen "problem", but it's a case of wrong conclusions.

It's actually much worse on an upright, they have the invisibility problem in my experience. I actually have very little trouble at all, youtubing concentrates a huge amount of mileage down to a few seconds, it's perhaps 1 in 5000 drivers that get uploaded as a result of their driving.

[Wendy]

Well, we've had discussions before about the unsuitability of lowriders on busy urban roads, but best avoided as Wendy gets very touchy about it.

Sure, there are situations where lowracers aren't good, but they relate mostly to disadvantages in manoeuvering and filtering through multiple lanes of stationary traffic. My particular commute doesn't have too much of this, meaning that the advantages of the lowracer make it a good choice. If my commute changed, I might well go back to using an upright.  From a safety and visibility point of view, they are a huge win over uprights.

[Hot Flatus]

I've no experience of riding one, but Im struggling with your last sentence

[mattc]

I'm slightly sceptical that the Phillips light Simon is on about is really that good.  I mean I'm sure it's a very good light, but I'm sceptical about it having any chance at all of competing with a modern super light like teethgrinder's Exposure SixPack (2000 lumens, almost), or even a more down-to-earth MaXx-D.  Of course I'm with everyone who thinks that our LED lights really ought to have better optics closer to those on car headlights to allow for proper dip and full beam settings.

I think you're getting too obsessed with numbers and/or the amount of light. Simon made it pretty clear that the shaped beam is a big factor for him, but you've gone back to just comparing outputs.

I'll repeat this for clarity - the shaped beam isn't just benefiting Simon!

[Kim]

It's actually much worse on an upright, they have the invisibility problem in my experience.

Completely agreed.

A recumbent limits what *you* can see to the same sort of level as the average car driver.  A low one adds extra dazzling issues in some situations.  But you're in control, and if you can't see, you slow down or stop.

While they're not my first choice for riding in city traffic (for manoeuvrability and security reasons, mostly), I've never felt invisible on a recumbent like I do on a normal bike.  And if you're paranoid about how it'll look in court, by all means overcook the lighting a bit or use a flag.

[niggle]

I have Magicshine front and rear lights, this is the rear:

Which looks like this to my phone camera (I use on steady setting so a video clip would not provide any further info):

Note how much room the unpiloted bike gets, it was always like that, until that is the central 3W led blew (probably because I had it mounted with the cable exit uppermost and rain got in) and now its back to the usual mixture of close and good passes with just the outer ring of LEDS lit (and a flashing light on my helmet).

[Efrogwr]

Dim-dip was intended to address a different problem (by making it impossible to drive on sidelights alone) but gave a similar solution.

It was legal for a couple of years, but is now banned.

[Efrogwr]

I've no experience of riding one, but Im struggling with your last sentence

I guess what Wendy means is that as recumbents are rare, they are more readily noticed.

[Kim]

I've no experience of riding one, but Im struggling with your last sentence

I rode an ICE Sprint through Birmingham rush hour traffic for about an hour yesterday.  I got exactly *zero* unsafe overtakes (most overtakers actually used their indicators!), pullings-out at junctions requiring me to brake, etc.  Doing the same journey on a Streetmachine, I might expect one or two.  Compare with the typical experience on an upright bicycle.

I think that's what Wendy is getting at.