Stop riding on the A303

[mattc]

Must have missed that bit, however you are indulging in reductio ad absurdam

How much of my post did you read?

Or did you just see "Mattc ..." and indulge your hair trigger response to spurt abuse at me?

 

[Hot Flatus]

I'm all for sharing tips on what roads have a greater "brain painting" risk, but stopping people riding on them is going too far. Be careful - at some point someone will decide some of YOUR favourite roads are too dangerous for bikes. How about anything with a speed limit over 30mph?.

This is the section to which I am referring.

[Pedal Castro]

I'm all for sharing tips on what roads have a greater "brain painting" risk, but stopping people riding on them is going too far. Be careful - at some point someone will decide some of YOUR favourite roads are too dangerous for bikes. How about anything with a speed limit over 30mph?.

This is the section to which I am referring.

That seems a perfectly reasonable comment from mattc, in context and supporting a very valid view.

[Karla]

How is this different from any other thread where the OPer wants to stop cyclists riding on certain roads because they personally get the heebie jeebies when riding down them? 

Paul, since when has your heebie jeebie-ometer been an accurate indicator of the risk of riding on a road?  As someone who has been knocked off twice on relatively minor suburban roads but zero times on dual carriageways, I'm extremely sceptical of people who can't stand to ride in the presence of two lanes of traffic.  As someone who doesn't own a car and relies on cycling for transport, I'm also extremely intolerant of anyone who tries to ban cycling from the roads that actually go places and relegate to bimbling along twisty lumpy country lanes.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

OVer the last (nearly) 30 years I have progressively watched most of the horrible bottlenecks SW of London be sorted from the Hockley Lights to the Newbury Bypass to the Hindhead Tunnel.  The A303 remains untouched, horrendous.  I don't even drive down it let alone cycle on it.  (when we still did self-catering holidays in Devon it took no longer to follow a whole series of Audax routes along B-roads etc from Andover - Taunton and pick up the M5 than it did to follow the 100 mile parking lot that is the A303). 

 With its alternate dual/single carriageway it is designed (a) for traffic jams and (b) winding up motorists, which means they probably aren't paying attention to unpowered two-wheeled vehicles.  As someone who is still comfortable entering dual-carriageway TTs, I wouldn't ride the A303.

[Pete Owens]

I'm curious - why do you find it difficult to overtake cyclists safely on a road with good visibility and a dedicated overtaking lane?

In my experience it's because both lanes are full and you can often be following a procession of articulated lorries.  That gives you a clear view of not very far

So what this this thread should really be titled is:

"Paul Metcalfe - Please stop driving your car on the A303 untill you have learned to drive properly. (Or indeed any other road as you are presumably equally reckless wherever you drive)"

[mattc]

I'm all for sharing tips on what roads have a greater "brain painting" risk, but stopping people riding on them is going too far. Be careful - at some point someone will decide some of YOUR favourite roads are too dangerous for bikes. How about anything with a speed limit over 30mph?.

This is the section to which I am referring.

As well as the bit I already quoted, please note the Title of the thread:

"Stop riding on the A303"

[Martin]

"Stop riding on the A303"

I think the title meant "please don't ride on the A303 unless you want to die" (and is indeed what Paul then said in his OP)

Living close the A23 (and never cycling on it either) I completely agree with Paul, sadly there are people on here who take any opposition to their views on the rights and wrongs of in this case riding on dual carriageways fairly personally and give equally personal replies back;

Happy (and safe) New year 

[mattc]

sadly there are people on here who take any opposition to their views on the rights and wrongs of in this case riding on dual carriageways fairly personally and give equally personal replies back;

Well said. I hope Flatus feels properly chastened now.

[Hot Flatus]

The mattc version starts at 3 and goes to 11


Yes...

[mattc]

I'm not angry - not even at you darling.

Now: anything else to add to the actual cycling-n-roads stuff? Your input is always welcome!

[vorsprung]

I'm curious - why do you find it difficult to overtake cyclists safely on a road with good visibility and a dedicated overtaking lane?

In my experience it's because both lanes are full and you can often be following a procession of articulated lorries.  That gives you a clear view of not very far

So what this this thread should really be titled is:

"Paul Metcalfe - Please stop driving your car on the A303 untill you have learned to drive properly. (Or indeed any other road as you are presumably equally reckless wherever you drive)"

I think he explained very well why over taking bicycles on roads like the A303 is difficult

There are certain A roads that are treated as motorways without the advantages of hard shoulders, straightening and well arranged intersections

Roads are not designed with cycling traffic in mind - we all know this

[SteveC]

As a regular user of the A303 (it runs within two miles of here), I always wince when I see people cycling on it. There's at least one chap who seems to commute on a fairly ordinary looking bike (I don't mean an 'ordinary'; that would be silly) and, while I wouldn't do it, he's been at it for some time. Round us there are parallel roads for most of the way, but they're not particularly nice either, so it might be the least evil way to do a commute.

Of course, the real problem is not that the A303 is too busy, but that it's not busy enough.

<snip>
the 100 mile parking lot that is the A303). 
<snip>

The 303 is a perfectly good road to drive during the week. It's not particularly good if you are going with the flow at a weekend (westbound on Friday/Saturday; eastbound on Sunday afternoon). It is hell at weekends during the main holiday season. I was doing a weekly commute using it last year. There were three occasions when I was delayed, once by ten minutes (wagon broken down on a single carriage way section), once when I had to come A31/A35 instead as the 303 was completely closed (on a dualled section) and once for the summer solstice. Monday mornings going eastbound, never had a problem.
It's always been marginal as to whether it's worth upgrading as the level of business travel isn't that high. And that's before we get onto the 'what shall we do about Stonehenge' question.  It is the last 'unfinished' major road in the south, but I fear it is likely to remain so.
But Yeovil CC do use it for time trials.

[Karla]

"Stop riding on the A303"

I think the title meant "please don't ride on the A303 unless you want to die" (and is indeed what Paul then said in his OP)

Living close the A23 (and never cycling on it either) I completely agree with Paul, sadly there are people on here who take any opposition to their views on the rights and wrongs of in this case riding on dual carriageways fairly personally and give equally personal replies back;

Happy (and safe) New year 

Which bit of the A23?  From central London to Coulsdon is fine and I've used it scores of times in the last few months - Streatham northwards used to be on my commute. 

[Martin]

Which bit of the A23?  From central London to Coulsdon is fine and I've used it scores of times in the last few months - Streatham northwards used to be on my commute.

the rest of it. Actually to be more precise the bit from Hookwood to Patcham, and also between Hooley and Coulsdon where is a feeder for the M23 and Gatwick. I suppose a big clue is that a lot of it that I would consider safe to drive on (and do) is not only single carriageway but also parallelled by the M23

except through Crawley

[Peter]

Seems to be an awful lot of over-reaction here.  A roads where cyclists are banned already exist; there is one in Oldham which has been in force for at least 20 years.  I quickly found a fractionally longer but much safer alternative.  Interestingly, since cyclists were banned on that road, not one has been killed on it!  Of course, I don't know the figures for the alternative.

I think Paul was reacting to a frightening scene with genuine concern for the cyclist.  He knows that all the rights in the world might not be enough to protect you every time.  I'd certainly be saying to my daughter, "For my sake, don't ride that road or that stretch."  Obviously, it would be her choice ultimately, but it's fair enough to suggest to her that it won't be only her that suffers should she chose to exercise her right with fatal consequences.

I'm reminded of Bertrand Russell's remark "I would not die for my beliefs - I might be wrong."

[Pete Owens]

I'm curious - why do you find it difficult to overtake cyclists safely on a road with good visibility and a dedicated overtaking lane?

In my experience it's because both lanes are full and you can often be following a procession of articulated lorries.  That gives you a clear view of not very far

So what this this thread should really be titled is:

"Paul Metcalfe - Please stop driving your car on the A303 untill you have learned to drive properly. (Or indeed any other road as you are presumably equally reckless wherever you drive)"

I think he explained very well why over taking bicycles on roads like the A303 is difficult

No he explained he personally finds overtaking cyclists very difficult due to his limiting his forward visibility by tailgating trucks (apparently in an attempt to obstruct other road users).

Those of us who drive sensibly with a sufficient gap so we can see where we are going observe cyclists well in advance so we can change lanes and overtake with ease.

[Peter]

Amazing.  From a post that started with concern for a fellow cyclist we have arrived at a post criticising Paul's driving.  A bizarre game of Chinese Whispers.

[sg37409]

Pauls last couple of posts have been great value 

[mattc]

Amazing.  From a post that started with concern for a fellow cyclist we have arrived at a post criticising Paul's driving.  A bizarre game of Chinese Whispers.

Key word: "started". There was rather a lot of stuff after that. Hardly surprising that this has generated debate.

[Karla]

I think Paul was reacting to a frightening scene with genuine concern for the cyclist.  He knows that all the rights in the world might not be enough to protect you every time.  I'd certainly be saying to my daughter, "For my sake, don't ride that road or that stretch."  Obviously, it would be her choice ultimately, but it's fair enough to suggest to her that it won't be only her that suffers should she chose to exercise her right with fatal consequences.

Yebbut I'm an adult and I prefer not to be talked to as if I were Paul's daughter.

[hellymedic]

Repeat:
Preaching from a warm, dry, well-lit car whilst you take the direct line is not always seen as friendly advice.

[Nelson Longflap]

IME A roads are often unpleasant but rarely unsafe. However the A303 is an exception. It scares me.  There's no question of "taking the lane", cyclists ride in a narrow strip of tarmac at the left of the inside lane while two lanes of traffic steam past at motorway speed. A tired or distracted driver could easily drift momentarily over the inside line and wipe out a cyclist.  In bad weather the risks are magnified and there's no way I would use the road on my bike. Setting aside all the side issues of how the message was expressed,  Paul's central point seems to me like common sense and good advice.

I can think of a section of A27 that's even more scary and potentially lethal to cyclists, but some sections of A303 are right up there in my short list of roads to use with extreme caution in fine weather only.

[SteveC]

This may or may not be relevant, but there is one section of the A303 where cyclists are recommended to take the old road.
That's the Ilminster Bypass. Was one of the last (if not the last) three lane with no priority for the middle lane roads built. It's now been re-lined so that there sections of two lanes westbound, then they switch over to two lanes eastbound. I'm not sure if the cyclists go the other way signs predate the re-lining or not.
(Not that the old road is particularly pleasant. A cyclist was killed there a few years ago. In the last year or so they've lowered the speed limits from NSL to 50 or 40.)

[matthew]

I occasionally ride home through Bracknell. On approach I look up to the A329 as it stops being motorway, depending on the traffic volumes I may ride along the 329  past the southern industrial estate or through the middle of Bracknell.

there are two cases when I will ride the 329; either heavy and slow moving traffic when I can match the speed or light traffic so that there is no difficulty in moving out to the outside lane. However in heavy fast moving traffic where I can't keep pace and there will be difficulty for the vehicles to change lanes I go the other way.

The 329 is my preferred and flattest route through Bracknell but it is the application of common sense as to if the traffic conditions on the road make the road unsafe.