Bye Lance

[clarion]

The single TdF stage I enjoyed least in all my three decades idly following the sport was Floyd Landis' ludicrous break.  It was just so crassly obvious.  Sometimes, you might have suspected that a rider was doping from the way they recovered, or kept up a pace.  But heading off the front and putting so much time into the pack recklessly was something only someone as thick as Landis would try.  Watching, I could feel my enthusiasm for cycle sport sapping away.  Horrible.

[Andrew]

The single TdF stage I enjoyed least in all my three decades idly following the sport was Floyd Landis' ludicrous break.  It was just so crassly obvious.

I remember the interviews with other riders afterwards... barely concealed incredulity in cases.

[Exit Stage Left]

The single TdF stage I enjoyed least in all my three decades idly following the sport was Floyd Landis' ludicrous break.  It was just so crassly obvious.  Sometimes, you might have suspected that a rider was doping from the way they recovered, or kept up a pace.  But heading off the front and putting so much time into the pack recklessly was something only someone as thick as Landis would try.  Watching, I could feel my enthusiasm for cycle sport sapping away.  Horrible.

That was a fantastic day. No-one in the peleton had accounted for the advantage of a steady supply of cooling water from a team car unimpeded by other riders. The panic in the bunch when they twigged they couldn't do the same was hilarious to watch.

[LEE]

The single TdF stage I enjoyed least in all my three decades idly following the sport was Floyd Landis' ludicrous break.  It was just so crassly obvious.  Sometimes, you might have suspected that a rider was doping from the way they recovered, or kept up a pace.  But heading off the front and putting so much time into the pack recklessly was something only someone as thick as Landis would try.  Watching, I could feel my enthusiasm for cycle sport sapping away.  Horrible.

Agreed.  I even remember the commentators on the previous day saying "Landis needs to do something extra special tomorrow" and wondering whether Landis would resort to injecting something extra special.

Totally reminiscent of Ben Johnson, in the 100 metres, jumping out of the blocks and not touching the track for the first 40 metres.  So obvious (Carl Lewis made a point of chasing him down, to shake his hand and look him straight in the eye...because he knew).

Jamaican Track & Field team anyone?

[Cudzoziemiec]

Us older types still have an Amateur/Professional dichotomy. We assume that to be a pro is to sign a pact with the devil, and that even in the amateur ranks some countries will cheat massively to garner prestige. Our heroes tend to be domestic amateurs.
I can understand that anyone interested in the post 1996 world, with pros at the Olympics, will tend to view the whole arena of cycling as ideally a level playing field. But those with an interest before that sees two seperate arenas, neither of which are flat at an international level.

Those amateur ranks being PBP and the club 10.

[Exit Stage Left]

Us older types still have an Amateur/Professional dichotomy. We assume that to be a pro is to sign a pact with the devil, and that even in the amateur ranks some countries will cheat massively to garner prestige. Our heroes tend to be domestic amateurs.
I can understand that anyone interested in the post 1996 world, with pros at the Olympics, will tend to view the whole arena of cycling as ideally a level playing field. But those with an interest before that sees two seperate arenas, neither of which are flat at an international level.

Those amateur ranks being PBP and the club 10.

Bradley Wiggins holds the record over our club 10 course. 19.02 in 2007, when he was training for the Tour Prologue. He had to drop out of that Tour when Cofidis withdrew after a doping positive on Moreni.

[Bledlow]

Mrs B has announced that she's sick of the Armstrong saga. She thinks he's now milking the story for profit. She doesn't want to hear any more.

Commentators I've seen agree with me: the only thing Armstrong regrets is getting caught.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Us older types still have an Amateur/Professional dichotomy. We assume that to be a pro is to sign a pact with the devil, and that even in the amateur ranks some countries will cheat massively to garner prestige. Our heroes tend to be domestic amateurs.
I can understand that anyone interested in the post 1996 world, with pros at the Olympics, will tend to view the whole arena of cycling as ideally a level playing field. But those with an interest before that sees two seperate arenas, neither of which are flat at an international level.

Those amateur ranks being PBP and the club 10.

Bradley Wiggins holds the record over our club 10 course. 19.02 in 2007, when he was training for the Tour Prologue. He had to drop out of that Tour when Cofidis withdrew after a doping positive on Moreni.

I'll be really disappointed if Wiggo is caught doping. And just as disappointed if he isn't doping. Must try harder.

[bikey-mikey]

I admit to having driven faster than the speed limit many many times, in the days I was allowed to drive. I would bet that no driver reading this could say anything less. Indeed if it were not snowing I suspect many of you would have broken the speed limit today.  And if stopped by the police, I imagine there just might have been excuses made....

If you are without sin. you are allowed to throw stones.......


The Lance story inspired me to get out of my wheelchair and start riding, when I could have stayed in the chair and become a 'potato'.

I owe him for that, and even if it turned out to be false, it still gave me back my life and self respect.

[Lordy]

Indeed.  The logic of the psychopath.

However, let's face it, in the era in which he raced, if you were at the top that is the game you had to play.  He has certainly, finally, been more honest than most of those who have been sanctioned.  Take Basso for instance.

True,

Add to list at will
zuller, zabel, virenque, mancebo, basso, ulrich, heras, landis, vino, levi, it's endless,

[Hot Flatus]

It is, although, in fairness he probably has more to gain than they do by telling the truth....let's face it, it is looking like he doesn't have much to lose.

[bikey-mikey]

Indeed.  The logic of the psychopath.

However, let's face it, in the era in which he raced, if you were at the top that is the game you had to play.  He has certainly, finally, been more honest than most of those who have been sanctioned.  Take Basso for instance.

True,

Add to list at will
zuller, zabel, virenque, mancebo, basso, ulrich, heras, landis, vino, levi, it's endless,

Contador?

[Andrew]

Cow poo or horse poo? I refuse to debate which tastes worse 

[Lordy]

Indeed.  The logic of the psychopath.

However, let's face it, in the era in which he raced, if you were at the top that is the game you had to play.  He has certainly, finally, been more honest than most of those who have been sanctioned.  Take Basso for instance.

True,

Add to list at will
zuller, zabel, virenque, mancebo, basso, ulrich, heras, landis, vino, levi, it's endless,

Contador?

Anyone say Wiggins?

[LEE]

Most of that article seems to be talking about cooperation with the UCI on doping controls.

How long before we see Lance on Oprah?

Just under 2 years I reckon (Just a wild guess)

[Exit Stage Left]

I remember the 1979 film 'Breaking Away', that followed the US bike boom, that ended in terms of sales in 1975. It was before the international success of US riders. The plot was interesting.

When a professional Italian cycling team comes to town for a racing event, Dave is thrilled to be competing with them. However, the Italians become irked when Dave is able to keep up with and even speak to them in Italian during the race. One of them jams a tire pump in Dave's wheel, causing him to crash, which leaves him disillusioned and depressed. This is a major turning point in the movie because earlier he was upset with his father for his unethical business practices. He now realizes everyone cheats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_Away

[citoyen]

If you are without sin. you are allowed to throw stones.......

Sanctimonious nonsense.

The Lance story inspired me to get out of my wheelchair and start riding, when I could have stayed in the chair and become a 'potato'.

I owe him for that, and even if it turned out to be false, it still gave me back my life and self respect.

You've still got the story. Hold on to that. Let the rest of us worry about the truth. (You may be surprised to learn that quite a few people never believed the story in the first place. My own cycling inspiration was Greg Lemond.)

d.

[Hot Flatus]

Most of that article seems to be talking about cooperation with the UCI on doping controls.

How long before we see Lance on Oprah?

Just under 2 years I reckon (Just a wild guess)

Seems you are right 

[LEE]

What surprised me, in the interview, was Lance's statements about how easy it was to avoid detection, simply by making sure you didn't dope close to race day.

I had always assumed that, for many years, they were tested randomly, throughout the year and not just on race day.

Had I known that (and I assume many like me) I wouldn't have paid the slightest bit of attention to the "I never failed a test" line.

Failing a test in those days was clearly just being plain stupid.

[citoyen]

Suggest you read Tyler's book. Lots of detailed inside info on how they avoided being caught by out-of-competition testing. It wasn't exactly difficult.

d.

[Hot Flatus]

The UCI did not want to catch dopers.  Not in their interests.

[simonp]

What surprised me, in the interview, was Lance's statements about how easy it was to avoid detection, simply by making sure you didn't dope close to race day.

I had always assumed that, for many years, they were tested randomly, throughout the year and not just on race day.

Had I known that (and I assume many like me) I wouldn't have paid the slightest bit of attention to the "I never failed a test" line.

Failing a test in those days was clearly just being plain stupid.

This has been discussed previously on this thread - Lance is just telling us what we already knew. But the "I never failed a test" line was actually just another lie - he covered up the cortisone failure by getting a doctor to fraudulently write a back-dated prescription.

Take this from 2009, on the EPO samples that were re-tested:

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden

Usually three or four days after you've had an injection all traces of EPO have left the circulation or at least aren't present at a high enough level for the urine test to be a definitive piece of evidence that EPO is being used.

So we have a failed test covered up (Cortisone). Re-tested samples from the 1999 tour showed he took EPO during the tour, not because he was 'clean' at the race, but because there was no test. And even then, a test only shows positive for EPO within a few days of taking it, the half life is too short (but you get the benefit for a couple of weeks, very convenient).

[Hot Flatus]

Lance is just telling us what we already knew.

Not aimed at you Simon, but as a general point about the confessional.  That Oprah confession was not a confession to cycling fans who already knew, it was a confession to those that didn't.

[fred the great]

Blimey, I just had to check that L.A's name is not on my Trek road bike which is finished in US Postal colours but I'm OK

As to Armstrong, he is guilty on his own admission and I hope that he gets seriously punished. That would at least, hopefully, result in a cleaner sport.

It has also been reported that Armstrong stage managed that so called confession and was still telling lies.

[ferret]

There's a bit about him now on CNN, he doesn't look bothered at all in the thing with Ms Winfrey