What's in a name?

[bobb]

Why do we call places things that they're not called?

Why do we call Milano Milan or Torino Turin?

Why do the French call London Londres?

It all seems rather silly. It really isn't that hard.

If I start talking about Roma, Vlaanderen or Deutschland am I being a pretentious pedant?

I appreciate there are historical and linguistic reasons for these names, but I think it's time to stop! We should call places what they are actually called rather than mangling them into our own languages.

So there.

[Riggers]

I believe you might have hit the virtual hornet's nest with a stick, on this Bobbers. I'm standing well back.

[токамак]

Mmm, interesting. Since visiting the South of Italy a couple of times I now instinctively refer to Naples as Napoli, which is the correct Italian name and it sounds better too!

And I think I'll start using Londres from now on - much better than "Lun-dn"!

[bobb]

And I think I'll start using Londres from now on - much better than "Lun-dn"!

If you do, don't be surprised if I murder you 

[токамак]

And I'm going to join VC Londres too...

[Riggers]

Slight deviation form the point, but do VC Londres wear bright yellow shirts and seem to be predominantly Rastifarian chaps?

[Riggers]

Actually, don't bother answering that one, as I bothered to check on the website and see I have it completely wrong!!

[Riggers]

… er, so carry on chaps.

[Jaded]

I appreciate there are historical and linguistic reasons for these names, but I think it's time to stop! We should call places what they are actually called rather than mangling them into our own languages.

What about rivers. Why do we use the English word 'river'? Why nor some other language? We should call rivers what they are actually called rather than...

oh, hang on...

[Riggers]

Actually Bobbers, I think it is a case of "When in Rome" so-to-speak, one goes with the local place-name rather than what we jolly foreigners might wish to call (or rather anglisize) said place name, and so we should, and so too should it be recipricated. No point calling us Londres when we lose the derivation of that name (ie: Lon don meaning: Scum bum), similarly, the derivation of Essex, for example would be lost (old English for The Arse People) if it was translated into French or Italian.

I think I've tied myself up in knots quite nicely.

Hope this helps?

[Ian H]

Why do we call places things that they're not called?

The more important a place is the more likely that it has regional variations of its name.*

As for "calling places things they're not called"...um...but they are. London is called Londres by many folk.

*It doesn't just apply to place names. Think of the variety of pronunciations of, for instance, 'Van Gogh' (I believe the original Dutch is something like 'Fon Koch' as in 'loch').

[Salvatore]

I learned recently that the Italians have a marvelously confusing name for the capital of Bavaria Bayern.

[Jezza]

I used to refer to a certain landlocked South-east Asian country as Laos, not like 'chaos' as the Americans tend to, but still sounding the 's', and thought it rather pretentious of backpacker types recently returned from there who insisted on calling the place 'Lao'. But having since been there, I learned that the 's' sound was a French colonial confection added in writing, so I too now call the place Lao.  

Just don't get me started on the Him-aH-laya. It's Himalayas, right?  

[bobb]

Why do we call places things that they're not called?

The more important a place is the more likely that it has regional variations of its name.*

As for "calling places things they're not called"...um...but they are. London is called Londres by many folk.

*It doesn't just apply to place names. Think of the variety of pronunciations of, for instance, 'Van Gogh' (I believe the original Dutch is something like 'Fon Koch' as in 'loch').

London may well be called Londres by many people, but that's not its name. That's not its name! That's not its...............  name!  

As for people. I agree. Remember when David Ginola first came to the UK he was always referred to as Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaavid Ggggggggggggginola until TV type people got their heads round the fact that he was French and should be pronounced in the correct way a French person would.

[Jezza]

London should properly be referred to as 'Hillfort' anyway:

Bizarre new atlas comes to the Great Land of the Tattooed - Telegraph

[Ian H]

London may well be called Londres by many people, but that's not its name. That's not its name! That's not its...............  name!  

It was the Romans wot started it: Londinium for goodness sake!

...until TV type people got their heads round the fact that he was French and should be pronounced in the correct way a French person would.
[/quote]

The French tend to frenchify foreign names. I was present at a speech by the Mayor of Dieppe, who referred to Mr Chanin in English, but M Shannan in French.

[hellymedic]

Why do we call places things that they're not called?

The more important a place is the more likely that it has regional variations of its name.*

As for "calling places things they're not called"...um...but they are. London is called Londres by many folk.

*It doesn't just apply to place names. Think of the variety of pronunciations of, for instance, 'Van Gogh' (I believe the original Dutch is something like 'Fon Koch' as in 'loch').

<pedant>

More like Fun Choch I thought.

<pedant>

We might as well spell as we are accustomed to hearing.
The Flems pronounce their region 'Flandren' so calling it Flanders is fair enough IMO.

As to why we call Egypt that, when the locals call it Masr, I know not.

[Zipperhead]

I don't mind place names being altered in other languages, but why on earth do Americans talk about 'erbs?

That's just pretentious.

[CAMRAMan]

I don't mind place names being altered in other languages, but why on earth do Americans talk about 'erbs?

That's just pretentious.

Hey, could you pass the o-ray-gan-o, buddy? 

The Hungarians, bless 'em, are buggers for changing place names. Vienna/Wien becomes "Becs" (pr. Beych), and Bratislava becomes "Pozsony". Then again Hungary calls itself "Maygyarorszag", so it's not such a big surprise, I suppose. Inpenetrable tongue, it is.