The Sky at Night has gone dark

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

It's a never-ending question: this massively talented and entertaining old bastard was exactly that - an old bastard. We can argue for ever about whether his good points outweigh the bad.

It's not about whether the good outweighs the bad so that overall he's ok, or the bad outweighs the good so that overall he's not ok. Somebody's ability or talent in one area does not outweigh their bad points, but nor should it be overshadowed by them. The two things aren't interdependent. Judge both aspects of someone's life if you want, but judge them separately. It's ok to say "this person was brilliant at their job,  and the fact they weren't very nice doesn't change that."
 
Talent and morals (for want of a better expression) are not the same thing.

[Regulator]

On balance, the Grauniad seems to think he was OK...

His tireless work explaining the wonders of the universe - punctuated by his mantra of scientific inquiry, "We just don't know" – was altogether more creditable and important.

We shall miss the old bugger.

[madcow]

I could never get into the Sky at Night thing but latterly I  became a fan of Patrick Moore.
The war clearly had an effect on him, particularly losing his fiancee, but he didn't keep going on about it, unlike the current crop of celebs who take to Twitter everytime they blow their nose.
He was entitled to hold his views, even if some considered them wrong, that is why he fought for a free world.

Science, broadcasting and life in general has lost another character. RIP

[Bledlow]

Mussolini made the trains run on time

He was the leader of a fascistic party, which merged with the New Britain Party.  So yes, given some of the things he said over the years, it is pretty certain that he did hate those people.

You'll probably tell me that my grandfather hated anyone who wasn't white, or English. After all, he thought Enoch Powell was a great bloke because of his (later) immigration policies, could rant about Germans till the cows came home, looked down on the French, etc.

But he married a half-Danish woman, got on tremendously well with her Danish family, & when his youngest daughter was seeing a bloke from Wiltshire he disapproved of, started bringing home a younger colleague he particularly liked, & trying to engineer occasions for the straying daughter to to be alone with said colleague. The colleague was Pakistani.

You're assuming that particular opinions belong to a set of linked attitudes common to people you loathe. In reality, those attitudes are often not linked. Someone can be an extreme right winger in many respects, as my grandfather was, but also have some very left wing opinions; a dislike of immigration, particularly non-white immigration, can go along with warm personal relationships with members of the disliked groups, even to passing the "Would you let your daughter marry one?" test.

The crude assumption that Moore hated women, etc. is based on this false grouping of attitudes into sets. In reality, people are much more complicated than that. There are sets of apparently contradictory attitudes which are common. Some people fear the other, & translate that into a dislike of black/Muslim/whoever people, but are perfectly nice to individuals. They don't really hate the group, they're just frightened by strangeness, & people they've met are no longer strange. This is just one of many ways in which the "If you're a woman he hated you" trope can be (& in Moore's case undoubtedly was) wrong.

PS. Don't assume that I approve of my grandfather. He really was a bastard. But like most bastards, not 100%.

[clarion]

My assumption that Moore disliked women is based on his comments on women.

My assumption that Moore disliked homosexuals is based on his comments on homosexuals.

There is a thread for the political aspects of this matter in P&OBI, which is probably where it belongs.

[Bledlow]

Nope. You're still doing it. You're oversimplifying & distorting.

Read what you actually wrote -

if you are black, gay, non-English or a woman, feel free to post how much you loved dear old Patrick, but be sure that he hated you.

Do you think that he hated Heather Couper? Or was it like my grandfather's attitude to Pakistanis?

I fear that you don't understand what you're doing, & would be horrified if it got through to you.

I've opted out of P&OBI, because it's too full of crap. I resent you bringing it into this thread.

I'll happily delete my posts if you delete yours.

[clarion]

I'll not respond in this thread.  As has been pointed out, the politics could go elsewhere.

[Tail End Charlie]

Unlike most presenters today, he really knew what he was talking about. Top guy. 
Very sad he's gone, science needs people like him.

[pcolbeck]

Unbelievably it seems he once played a duet with Einstein (Moore on the piano and Einstein on the violin of course).

[cuddy duck]

Patrick Moore inspired me to a life-long pursuit of extreme right-wing political activism, which has given me great pleasure. For that reason I can forgive him his mumbling amateur star-gazing.
You need to separate the two, clarion.

[andrewc]

Patrick Moore's replacement  maggie-aderin-pocock interviewed in the Guardian.

[hellymedic]

Unbelievably it seems he once played a duet with Einstein (Moore on the piano and Einstein on the violin of course).

This anecdote might have little foundation.
We will never really know.

[TimO]

Patrick Moore's replacement  maggie-aderin-pocock interviewed in the Guardian.

I find her style a bit irritating, but maybe she'll grow on me.

On the plus side, with the replacement being a black woman, that's no bad thing.  Hopefully that'll help to encourage two groups which are in minorities within the UK science community to grow.