Age and performance

[Si]

Just a general question to seek the opinions of those more experienced rather than a request for help.

I was wondering what effect on performance you all think aging has.

For instance, I would guess that once you've reached your peak (assuming similar training at all ages) around your 20s and early 30s, from there onwards it's a slow decline in terms of speed and climbing ability?  I certainly feel that now I'm past my biological prime that I don't go as fast as I used to either on the flat or up the hills, and experience of being overtaken a lot more these days seems to back that up - although I'm happy to accept that there are many other factors at play, or instance how much time I can devote to riding, my changing attitude that makes me less inclined to being competitive anyway.

But what of endurance?  Looking around the longer audaxes there are loads of people of a mature disposition that seem to have no trouble grinding out the miles.  Would it be safe to say that one shouldn't expect too much deterioration in endurance (even if the rides take a tad longer) as one ages? Indeed, could it be that endurance improves into middle age as one's life-bag of miles in the bank increases?

[MSeries]

Endurance increases with age to a point, then it starts to deteriorate. That point is much later in life than it is for pure speed.  I never did as much cycling when I was younger than I have done in the last 4 years, I am now a better climber and faster on all terrain except downhill than I was 20 years ago. I didn't train then like I do now though. I didn't have the same motivation as I have now. I am performing better now than I  ever have been.  I felt better in 2007 but I am cycling better this year, I am doing similar rides with much less effort for similar results. So maybe it's because i am more mature mentally, maybe it's the four years of extra miles, maybe it's the shock I received when I broke my pelvis. (That is responsible for my motivation in the gym)

[teethgrinder]

Generally, from what I've heard and been told by older people.
Stamina improves until about your 50s. The world record for running 1000 miles is/was held by a 50 year old woman. No man or woman of any age has been faster.
You recovery slows down after about your mid 20s.
Muscle performance deteriorates by about 1% a year after the age of 40. Not entirely convinced that it is very accurate myself though, having cycled with Jack Eason. It certainly does degrade with age though.

I felt better in 2007 but I am cycling better this year, I am doing similar rides with much less effort for similar results. So maybe it's because i am more mature mentally, maybe it's the four years of extra miles, maybe it's the shock I received when I broke my pelvis. (That is responsible for my motivation in the gym)

I wonder if we just get used to being fitter and adapt, becoming more able to do long rides. My first 600 was a big deal to me. Now they are just another ride. The effort might be the same, it's just that we're used to it and not just physically more capable.

[frankly frankie]

Generally, from what I've heard and been told by older people.
Stamina improves until about your 50s. The world record for running 1000 miles is/was held by a 50 year old woman. No man or woman of any age has been faster.

As far as audax is concerned, the stats are distorted simply because many older people have more time on their hands, and endurance sport of any sort is a time-consuming business - but especially cycling because its actually very efficient and kind to the body, so you have to go at it for much longer periods just to get into the 'endurance' zone.

[alan]

It will be interesting to see how this thread develops becauseI cannot recall the last time I rode out with anyone younger than myself.This may contribute to my normal status of lantern rouge.

[inc]

An individuals maximum athletic potential decreases yearly after their mid twenties but they may never have been anywhere near their potential at that age. If as they  they get older they learn how to train more wisely along with more free time they could perform better than when they were younger For example using VO2max an average 20-24 year old is 44-50 and an average 60-65 year old is 29-32 but a fit 60-65 could be over 40. There is quite a lot of useful data being gathered now as some of the leading physiologists from the 60s and 70s are still exercising and recording their findings.( Costill, Coogan et al)  ( Well they were when I last looked a few years ago) One surprising finding is that the fitness benefits of exercise in older people is related more to intensity than duration. The decrease in VO2max was much slower in individuals who trained harder ie higher pulse rate. This would seem to correlate with the fact that ageing time trialists  don't seem to get much slower. There was a book by Joe Friel called Cycling past 50 or a similar title, that had some useful information in it.

[Si]

So, basically, what you are saying is:  that what I did 20 years ago when I just rode for fun in a very unstructured way, I might still be able to do now or even exceed, if I put a little more time in and trained intelligently rather than just doing random riding?  There is hope for old dogs yet? 

[Basil]

I agree that speed and power drifts away gradually as you age and that stamina appears to remain or even continue to improve until well late in life.  Or that would appear to be my experience, anyway.

The stamina thing may also be a product of improved riding/peddling technique (I'm a slow learner  ) and the sheer bloody minded stubbornness of the older rider.

Unfortunately, I've started to notice the stamina also wearing a bit thin in the last couple of years - although that may have more to do with the heart problems I had three or four years ago - I can't really tell.

[Blade]

Back in the '70s I rode every week with the local C.T.C. section and got plenty of miles in including riding Audaxes.

Every year I rode the local racing clubs hilly 50 in 4 event which usually took me around 3 and a half hours.

Now aged 60, I still ride the same 50 in 4 course but take around 3 hours 5 mins. 

I put less regular miles in nowadays. But I gave up smoking 30 years ago and now have a 'fast' bike which is substantially lighter than the old tourer that I rode in the '70s.

The bike makes a big difference, but nowadays I'm more savvy about managing my on-the-bike nutrition and knowing how long to push my body to 'almost 'but not beyond  it's limits.

[mattc]

I felt better in 2007 but I am cycling better this year, I am doing similar rides with much less effort for similar results. So maybe it's because i am more mature mentally, maybe it's the four years of extra miles, maybe it's the shock I received when I broke my pelvis. (That is responsible for my motivation in the gym)

I wonder if we just get used to being fitter and adapt, becoming more able to do long rides. My first 600 was a big deal to me. Now they are just another ride. The effort might be the same, it's just that we're used to it and not just physically more capable.

Audaxes are a special case. 1stly there are the demographic effects Frankie cites.

Then there are the 'logistics' of riding a long way (e.g. 400+ for me!). You learn how to do this stuff - position dialled in, the right equipment, when to eat, pacing, less faffing, etc ...

On the mental side, your confidence increases the more long rides you finish. So you waste less mental 'effort' worrying*, and you get all the logistical stuff done even better/quicker.

It all adds up to me finishing behind decrepit pensioners riding at 17kph.

*The main practical effect of this for me is simply sleeping better - before and on the ride.

[simonp]

Well, I reckon my vo2max is in around the mid 50s (based on the estimation provided by the Concept II website, which uses rowing machine performance).  This is about 10 lower than it was estimated to be when I was in my mid 20s, but it's well above the average 20-24yo mentioned upthread (these averages are for untrained individuals so that shouldn't be surprising).  So you can have much better athletic performance than average despite the aging process.  The rate of decline is thought to be slowed by training also, so if you keep riding then you will still have a decent aerobic performance and give many younger riders a run for their money.

I think where older riders may tend to suffer more is in recovery time, join wear and tear, and in sprint power.  The muscle mass loss associated with aging tends to be in Type II fibres (fast twitch) so endurance tends to be conserved better than anaerobic power.

There is an interesting note in the Wikipedia page on this, Sarcopenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, which says:

It is interesting to note that athletic speed and strength records are invariably set by individuals no older than 30 years of age, indicating that subtle effects of sarcopenia are already apparent.

This is in contrast to the endurance record mentioned above.

[inc]

J Friel's book gives a reference to a study done by M Pollock. The summary seems to show that exercise alone will not prevent a decline in VO2max. The exercise intensity was the critical factor. 

   
   Effect of age and training on aerobic capacity and body composition of master athletes -- Pollock et al. 62 (2): 725 -- Journal of Applied Physiology

[Nonsteeler]

This German road bike mag (TOUR Magazin | Europas größtes Rennrad-Magazin ) has an article about the issue. You can find the (free) pdf here: http://content.delius-klasing.de/interfaces/payment/?id=4248.

[David Martin]

It will be interesting to see how this thread develops becauseI cannot recall the last time I rode out with anyone younger than myself.This may contribute to my normal status of lantern rouge.

Mid june, from Stafford station to your house?

..d

[rogerzilla]

Aerobic capacity declines from about 18 onwards, but peak cycling performance is in your late 20s, when you still have good aerobic capacity but you are stronger.  Strength peaks in your 30s, surprisingly, and you also recover more quickly after a hard ride.

From 40 it's pretty much all downhill, although I've been the fastest ever this year - and that includes the TTs I did when I was 22.  Same equipment; road bike, spoked wheels, cheap tri-bars, no skinsuit.

[Jaded]

 although I've been the fastest ever this year - and that includes the TTs I did when I was 22.  Same equipment; road bike, spoked wheels, cheap tri-bars, no skinsuit.

Does the cleanliness of the bike make a difference to speed? 

I only ask because my dirty bike might be why I am so slow. 

[Ian H]

This is a thoroughly depressing thread.

[simonp]

Well, I've done things in the past couple of years that I'd never have though possible 12 years ago (when I was 25).

[alan]

It will be interesting to see how this thread develops becauseI cannot recall the last time I rode out with anyone younger than myself.This may contribute to my normal status of lantern rouge.

Mid june, from Stafford station to your house?

..d

I think I meant to say anyone OLDER than myself

[Manotea]

This is a thoroughly depressing thread.

Don't worry. It gets worse.

I've started going to the local gym, mostly to keep my girls company. At one time I was a regular gym bunny (not that it shows) but haven't been for quite some time. Didn't seem much point somehow. Any dreams of playing with the big iron are long gone but I do rather miss being able to do sets of dips & chins...

[Rich753]

So, basically, what you are saying is:  that what I did 20 years ago when I just rode for fun in a very unstructured way, I might still be able to do now or even exceed, if I put a little more time in and trained intelligently rather than just doing random riding?  There is hope for old dogs yet? 

Absolutely.

[Climberruss]

From 40 it's pretty much all downhill, although I've been the fastest ever this year - and that includes the TTs I did when I was 22. 

All of my fastest Audaxes have come in the last couple of years (I'm 42 now) beating my times when I was 18-20. I think I recover quicker as well.

[LEE]

There's so much nonesense spoken about declining ability due to age.

Lab-study statistics could unneccessarily put off people in a real world.

It really only makes sense in a practical way if you are talking about someone trained to their physical peak at their biological prime.

Take Lance Armstrong in his early 30's as an example.  It was true, for him, that it was all downhill from 35 onwards.  He'll never be as good again and will probably get progressively worse by the year.  That's because he was starting from such a high.

I started riding seriously (I mean Audaxing) 3 years ago at 44 years of age.  I'd cycled more than the average person before that but my annual mileage jumped from 1000 (guess) to 5000 miles a year.

I've got progressively quicker in those 3 years and closed the gap between me and the faster boys significantly.  

8 years ago I did my first ever 100 mile day ride.  It damn near cripled me.  Last Sunday I rode a 125 mile (200km) hilly Audax as a social event and could have carried on no problem.

What I'm saying is that, it's not necessarily a depressing thread.  In fact, if you are a sedentary, obese, smoker of 40 years of age, you could have 20 years of performance improvement ahead of you if you started cycling.

Those of you who actually achieved their physical peak may see a noticeable decline, even when continuing hard training, but you will always be fitter than me, someone who never reached it in the first place.  My upward curve will most likely never cross your downward curve.  Lance Amstrong at 77 would whup my 47 year old ass.

Basically it serves you all right for getting in shape so young.

[inc]

There's so much nonesense spoken about declining ability due to age.
 
 Last Sunday I rode a 125 mile (200km) hilly Audax as a social event and could have carried on no problem.

Lee, no disrespect but 200 km at 47 is not really a challenge. There has not been any nonsense is this thread that I can see . As you age athletic ability declines. Hard exercise slows that decline, what is nonsense about that.

[Chris S]

There is no doubt in my mind, that as I approach 50, I'm much fitter, faster, and have more stamina, than I ever did when I was approaching 30.

Lee is right - a misspent youth can offer the chance for a turnaround later.

To my mind, statements like "200 km at 47 is not really a challenge" are not helpful. As someone who has turned their life around from a sedate, obese, 40 a day smoker; my riding 200km is nothing short of miraculous - never mind a challenge.