30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months

[hatler]

Do you have any idea of his budget?

Not certain on this last point.

He'll be along soon to answer these sort of questions himself.

[iakobski]

A colleague has just contacted me to say he has been persuaded to join two friends cycling from Edinburgh to London over three days in September (via the Lake District to 'make it interesting'). They will have vehicle support so no need for panniers etc.

He currently cycles to work three times a week (30 mile round trip) on a hybrid.

He's not a cycle nut.

What advice has the panel for him with regards
  i)  training program
  ii) what new bike
  iii) what spec for the new bike ?

I can answer from my own experience: A few years ago I was from riding a hybrid to work, 5 miles then later 11 miles e/w but not every day, and decided to do a long tour. Not knowing what was "normal" I started at 220-240 km per day. This was perfectly reasonable for the first 4 days, apart from having to wear two pairs of padded shorts: it's not actually that far per day if you plan to just ride and sleep and eat, and take it fairly gently.
My answers for the above questions were:
1. up the commute to daily, and did a single 100km Audax on the hybrid.
2/3. Comfort as others have said; one slightly more aerodynamic than a hybrid; most importantly one that doesn't break down so get it as long as possible before the big ride and use it daily to iron out any wrinkles.
Young master Garter recently did Leeds-Paris at 120-ish miles a day. The biggest problem faced by most riders was their bikes falling to bits (one person's crank had fallen off before getting out of Leeds). That and not knowing what a hill was 

[vorsprung]

Encourage him to get wider tyres.  28mm are just as fast and are a load more comfy

Erm, are you sure?  If so, why do racers use 23mm tyres.

Yes.  I am sure.   My experience of riding various long distance events that are similar to the OPs idea 28mm tyres are no slower or faster than 25mm tyres.  28mm tyres are however more comfortable.

Having recently lost the will to live in a discussion on the topic of 28mm vs 23mm on bikeradar I just cannot raise the effort to repeat the stuff here.  Just think what the phrase "pounds per square inch" means.

The number one reason for riders giving up on long rides is discomfort and boredom.  Mechanical failure is probably next.

Pros OTOH have a completely different aim in riding the bike. 

[toontra]

Encourage him to get wider tyres.  28mm are just as fast and are a load more comfy

Erm, are you sure?  If so, why do racers use 23mm tyres.

Yes.  I am sure.   My experience of riding various long distance events that are similar to the OPs idea 28mm tyres are no slower or faster than 25mm tyres.  28mm tyres are however more comfortable.

I wasn't comparing 28's to 25's - I was comparing 28's to 23's.  If you say that 28's are as fast as 23's then that's your prerogative but I can't find anything to support that.  I'm open to reading any data you have to support it (taking into account rolling resistance and weight).

Pros OTOH have a completely different aim in riding the bike. 

They are interested in speed.  In your original post you claimed 28's were as fast as 23's.  That's why I questioned it.

[inc]

Yes, I found that, but no actual test results comparing tyre widths that I could see

If you click on the thumbnail at the bottom they give resistance in Watts for different tyres and widths.

[toontra]

Yes, I found that, but no actual test results comparing tyre widths that I could see

If you click on the thumbnail at the bottom they give resistance in Watts for different tyres and widths.

The tables only seem to show 23 width tyres.

[inc]

Yes, I found that, but no actual test results comparing tyre widths that I could see

If you click on the thumbnail at the bottom they give resistance in Watts for different tyres and widths.

The tables only seem to show 23 width tyres.

There is some variation but the data shows that one 23mm tyre can have nearly twice the RR as another, the width is just one factor so I would think saying a 28mm tyre has less RR than a 23 may not actually be true in the real world as there are more factors than just width.

[toontra]

Yes, I found that, but no actual test results comparing tyre widths that I could see

If you click on the thumbnail at the bottom they give resistance in Watts for different tyres and widths.

The tables only seem to show 23 width tyres.

There is some variation but the data shows that one 23mm tyre can have nearly twice the RR as another, the width is just one factor so I would think saying a 28mm tyre has less RR than a 23 may not actually be true in the real world as there are more factors than just width.

Exactly.  No-one would suggest that all 23's roll the same, but there's nothing in those tables comparing tyre widths (other than actual variations on branded 23's).

On the broader point, "real world" rolling resistance tests would be extremely difficult to undertake.  You would have to test on a whole variety on surfaces, ranging from the super smooth tarmac to the farm track.  What may be faster on one surface may be slower on another.  I guess you'd have to simulate the "average" road surface - a tricky task in the UK!

[amaferanga]

Fascinating as this discussion has become, its really not very useful for the OP.

Can't you just agree on 25's and offer some useful advice?

[mrcharly-YHT]

I was thinking on this as I rode home on Fri night.

I decided that we are probably doing the chap a disservice, assuming that he isn't fit for longer rides and doesn't know how to be comfortable on his bike.

In my experience of longer rides, the biggest difference is how much food is needed. Most people can manage a 50miler on a meal. Ride 140miles on consecutive days and you have to be conscious of the need to constantly refuel, even when you don't feel like it.

[BigG]

Do you have any idea of his budget?

Not certain on this last point.

He'll be along soon to answer these sort of questions himself.

First of all thanks for kicking this off for me. Tyres certainly seem to have sparked a bit of a discussion. As to the budget question. Well, not entirely sure really. I typically like buying quality, but don't expect to be using the bike an awlful lot - hopefully a few more times than simply for training for the E'burgh - London ride and the ride itself, but who knows. From a couple of conversations I thought £500 - £600 should do the job, but knowing myself, I guess I could easily be convinced to spend £1k.

Just in today's paper that Evans Cycles has an offer for The Times readers: 30% off on selected cycles - only valid till tomorrow Sunday 16th. Sounds attractive, but trouble is that I haven't researched my options yet and don't really want to make a rushed decision... Thoughts? Thanks

[BigG]

Don't think fitness will be too much of an issue. While, as was correctly stated, I am not a cycle nut, but merely a casual cyclist, who enjoys a 30 mile round trip commute by bike 3 times a week, I do plenty of other exercise, including rowing, running and football. Obviously aware that I need to spend much more time on the saddle and get a few 100 mile rides in before attempting to do 150miles plus 3 days in a row. Where I feel really quite lost and would appreciate advice/thoughts is on what bike to get, what frame? (Steel, Alu, Carbon, ...?), what components, ...? I am a complete novice in this area. Appreciate that comfort will be important and I'm quite prepared to work that little bit harder for a bit of extra comfort. What's the best place to buy a bike? Evans? Wiggle? Action bikes? Decathlon (heard their own brand offers great value for money?), ...
How do I quickly build up some knowledge to be able to make an informed decision? ...
Thank you

[MSeries]

Don't think fitness will be too much of an issue. While, as was correctly stated, I am not a cycle nut, but merely a casual cyclist, who enjoys a 30 mile round trip commute by bike 3 times a week, I do plenty of other exercise, including rowing, running and football.

I think you will be surprised what 150miles of cycling will take out of you. You will fatigue day after day. I recommend you do at least on back to back ride. Say, ride out somewhere, 75 miles of more, 100 would be better, ride home then next day.

[PaulF]

Don't think fitness will be too much of an issue. While, as was correctly stated, I am not a cycle nut, but merely a casual cyclist, who enjoys a 30 mile round trip commute by bike 3 times a week, I do plenty of other exercise, including rowing, running and football. Obviously aware that I need to spend much more time on the saddle and get a few 100 mile rides in before attempting to do 150miles plus 3 days in a row. Where I feel really quite lost and would appreciate advice/thoughts is on what bike to get, what frame? (Steel, Alu, Carbon, ...?), what components, ...? I am a complete novice in this area. Appreciate that comfort will be important and I'm quite prepared to work that little bit harder for a bit of extra comfort. What's the best place to buy a bike? Evans? Wiggle? Action bikes? Decathlon (heard their own brand offers great value for money?), ...
How do I quickly build up some knowledge to be able to make an informed decision? ...
Thank you

First of all don't get hung up on the details: for your budget Aluminium will probably provide the best range of choice although you could also get steel or carbon fibre within your budget. All will give a frame that will be suitable for your ride. At that price point all will come with suitable components so don't worry about which brand you buy - I'm assuming that you haven't ridden a road bike so whatever you get will need a small learning curve. Besides if you thought the discussion on tyre width above was a digression try asking whether Shimano or Campagnolo are better. You'll start a religious war

Wiggle are great but as you don't know what you want I'd go to a local shop. They'll all stock the major brands and you won't go far wrong with Specialized, Trek, Giant etc.. If you can, get there on a weekday as they'll be less busy and spend more time with you. Try and ride a few bikes if you can, they'll all feel odd to begin with but you'll get a better idea that way.

Good luck!

[citoyen]

Just in today's paper that Evans Cycles has an offer for The Times readers: 30% off on selected cycles - only valid till tomorrow Sunday 16th. Sounds attractive, but trouble is that I haven't researched my options yet and don't really want to make a rushed decision... Thoughts? Thanks

You could do a lot worse than a Specialized Tricross.

It has a triple chainset and a wide-range cassette, so plenty low enough gears for the steep bits, and it's designed to be a smooth ride on rough terrain while also sporty enough to go fast on good roads. The one I've linked to comes with Shimano 2300 components - I have no idea if that's any good or not but it is very much the bottom end of the "good" range for a road bike (which is probably still a lot better than really cheapo components). If you can spend a bit more, you can get a model specced with better components, eg this model has Tiagra, which is two steps up the scale of Shimano componentry (bikes fitted with other brand components also available ).

But there are literally hundreds of other possibilities. You could also look at the  Kona Jake for example. And someone else on the forum has recently bought a Genesis Croix de Fer, which looks like a splendid bike for the money and could be very suitable. And if you're in London, go to Condor and ask to try the Fratello.

The best thing to do is to get down to a bike shop and try as many different bikes as you can, see what you get on with best. Don't rush into it, and as PaulF says, good luck!

d.

[vorsprung]

They are interested in speed.  In your original post you claimed 28's were as fast as 23's.  That's why I questioned it.

For the purpose given, they as fast.

*deep breath*

If you are riding long distance then a comfortable bike will work out faster than a uncomfortable bike

If you are riding on rough roads then 28mm will be better than 23mm due to the shape of the deformed patch the road contact makes.  This gives a 28mm tyre of the same construction  a lower rolling resistance than a 23mm tyre.  The Schwalbe website discusses this in tedious detail istr

At the speeds the OP intends to ride at aerodynamic factors can be discounted

It is true that 28mm tyres made of the same material as a 23mm tyre would heavier and therefore slower.  
For example the weight table for Ultragator skins lists 23mm as 280g and 28mm as 320g.
Additionally, 28mm tyres tend to be heavier in construction anyway.  They are more likely to have puncture strips etc.  I tend to try and get the (rare) kevlar beaded 28mm tyres for this reason
Overall, the main problem with weight is the rotating weight.  So if the pedal stroke isn't smooth or if the bike is accelerating the lighter tyre is better.  The weight of the tyre as part of the bike+rider is negligible.

Now let's take two scenarios

1)
Consider under what circumstances a 28mm tyre might be faster than a 23mm
Let's assume that the two tyres are being run at the same pressure.  100 psi for arguments sake.
The pedal stroke would have to be absolutely constant, with no accelerations to elminate the rotational weight difference.  The road would have to be rough to maximize the contact point advantage. The speed would have to be under 50kph to remove any hint of aerodynamic effects.  The road would have to be flat so that the tiny (compared with the entire weight of the bike and rider) extra weight of the tyres could be negated

2)
OTOH for a 23mm to be faster than a 28mm
23mm tyres tend to be constructed for higher pressures.  So let's run it at 150psi.  The road should be glassy smooth.  The speed should be in excess of 50kph.  There should be lots of speeding up and slowing down.

Scenario 1) is more like a long distance rider.  Scenario 2) is more like a race

They are completely different things and require different tyres.  But for the OPs purposes a 28mm tyre is as fast as 23mm.

That really is my final   statement on the whole thing

If you need to discuss it further I am doing the K&SW 600 in a couple of weeks and will be available half the night on the A39 to Bude. 

[mattc]

First google hit:

Wider is faster! | Schwalbe North America

( WARNING: comments include the word phatter )