Chainset questions

[Tim Hall]

All my bikes run square taper chainsets and bottom brackets, so I understand them.  I'm considering changing the chainset on my Mercian to a Hollowtech II and need a bit of guidance.

The current chainset is a Tiagra triple "9 speed", fairly elderly. The middle ring was replaced  a couple of yeard a go, but the other rings are now a bit shagged.  It was riginally installed when I has 9 speed transmission, but it now has 10 speed 105 shifters, 10 speed chain and cassette. Shifters are 5703 series.  Occasionally during shifting the chain drops between middle and large and just scoots along in the gap. A flick of the shifter and it goes to where it should be.  My understanding is that the chainsets shouldn't care, despite labeling, whether I'm running 9 or 10 speed, but it seems that the narrower chain causes problems.

Replacement options include a square taper Stronglight triple from Spa at £59.00, or diving into this Hollowtech II world and getting a Tiagra 4703 triple from, say Chain Reaction, which says it's compatible with 10 speed chains. I'll need a bottom bracket (or more accurately a pair of BB bearing cups).

My thinking is the Tiagra Hollowtech II offering will work better with my 10 speed chain. Or am I worrying unnecessarily? If I go for Hollowtech II what do I need to watch out for?  My UN54 lasts approximately for ever and I've read that Hollowtech isn't quite so long lasting.  I guess I'll need the BB shell faced to ensure everything is square.

Thoughts?

[Neil C]

I've got a Tiagra 4703 on my Genesis Equilibrium and it works fine. But be aware that the only chainrings that it works with are the Shimano 30/39/50 ones. The BCD is standard but the arm pattern is different so other chainrings won't fit.

[citoyen]

What front mech do you have? I wonder if the shifting problems might be down to the mech rather than the chainset. AIUI, 10-speed shifters/mechs use a different pull ratio to 9-speed ones.

RS500 BB is pretty sturdy and cheap. Remember that you'll also need a suitable BB tool, and if you go for a 6700 BB you'll need an adapter for it because the housing has a smaller diameter.

Don't know about facing the BB shell, but I've never converted a bike from square taper to HT2. Wavy washer?

[sojournermike]

I've run both the Spa Stronglight (Sugino XD2) triple and an old Campag Race Triple with Shimano 10 speed with no issues whatsoever. So, probably the mech or set up rather than the narrow chain.

Hollowtech is fine, even if it doesn't last as long (forever) as a square taper BB, but I think you will get better ring choice with one of the non Shimano chainsets, unless you pick up an older Shimano triple on a 110/74 5 arm bcd. I've got my old 6603SL chainset running a single ring now as the left shifter failed.

Mike

[Torslanda]

HII bearings are sensitive to being installed square. Facing the shell is pretty much a given. HII gives a stiffer feel compared to square taper, the external bearing setup will have a shorter life but is much easier to change.
 
If it's longevity you're after then a decent quality square taper and Stronglight combination is 'fit and forget'. The only 10 speed triple from Shimano is 4700 Tiagra. Available fairly reasonably from the usual suspects but, as stated upthread, it uses unique chainrings which will prove (prohibitively?) expensive to replace. Stronglight rings by comparison will cost buttons.

The only 'advantage' to Shimano is the shift quality thanks to ramps, pins and profiled teeth. The Stronglight would feel a little agricultural by comparison.

Yer pays yer money . . .

[ElyDave]

Have they stopped producing the ultegra triple?  The one on my Giant is going fine so far

[Paul]

Thoughts?

But it's so ugly.

[Torslanda]

Have they stopped producing the ultegra triple?  The one on my Giant is going fine so far

105 & up is compact or double. No reason you couldn't find one NOS or used . . .

[jsabine]

I guess I'll need the BB shell faced to ensure everything is square.

As Tors says, yes.

I've got the tools - happy enough to do the job or lend the kit, depending on how SE London compares for inconvenience with other options.

[Samuel D]

You have to go up to 105 level to get hollow cranks, despite the “Hollowtech” branding on the cheaper Shimano cranks. Hollow cranks have higher stiffness at lighter weight. How much these differences matter is debatable, of course.

When I changed SunXCD square-taper cranks to Shimano 105 FC-5600 as an experiment, the stiffness difference was immediately apparent. I’m still not sure I like the greater stiffness though, especially on cobbles that now give my feet a hammering.

But if you’re interested in hollow cranks, consider the older FC-5603 still sold by SJS Cycles, albeit only in black and 172.5 mm crank length. (They have my cranks at a great price in 175 mm too. Or more options in black. I think these older cranks look better than the new ones, but opinions vary on that.)

I personally would avoid any of the Shimano 4-arm cranks on principle. Not a fan of new standards whose main purpose is reduced cross-brand compatibility.

[Torslanda]

Thoughts?

But it's so ugly.

GPWM

Presumably the Merc is a classic, steel, lug or fillet brazed. Doesn't such a frame demand a classic looking chainset?

I'm a classic whore mechanic. I'll fit anything to anything because it pays the rent. That doesn't mean I don't have opinions. Perhaps consider a NOS Veloce triple on looks alone...

[Samuel D]

What is the gallery’s opinion on mixing the above-linked silver FC-5600 cranks and a classic steel frame? Those cranks are neither classic nor hard-edged contemporary.

[phantasmagoriana]

Having gone from square taper to hollowtech II on my now-winter bike, I wouldn't go back regardless of looks. The stiffness is definitely noticeable.

I've got one of the last-generation 105 triple chainsets (it's a few years old now - 5703 I think) and whilst it doesn't look particularly "classic", it's silver and looks nice IMHO. It's on a tatty aluminium frame with mismatching everything though, so I'm not that fussed!

[Samuel D]

The stiffness is definitely noticeable.

Noticeable by feel or by stopwatch? For while I can certainly feel the difference, it has done nothing measurable to my speed.

[rr]

Rose bikes still has limited stock of 5703 and 6703 chainsets

[Tim Hall]

Hmm, lots of food for thought there, thanks.

Picking a couple of points: Sheldon says that front mechs are agnostic about speed, so I'm not so sure that is causing the chain issues. 

Yes, lugged 531 with lug lining, like god intended  so I can see how a classic looking chainset would be the thing.



Off to peruse the Spa website. 

[citoyen]

Picking a couple of points: Sheldon says that front mechs are agnostic about speed, so I'm not so sure that is causing the chain issues. 

What Sheldon says relates to compatibility of front mech with chainset, but I was thinking of compatibility of front mech and shifter - your 10-speed shifter may be pulling the wrong amount of cable for your 9-speed front mech.

[Tim Hall]

Picking a couple of points: Sheldon says that front mechs are agnostic about speed, so I'm not so sure that is causing the chain issues. 

What Sheldon says relates to compatibility of front mech with chainset, but I was thinking of compatibility of front mech and shifter - your 10-speed shifter may be pulling the wrong amount of cable for your 9-speed front mech.

Good point.  I'll ponder a bit more.  Meanwhile, the existing chainset is a toothy 52-42-30 while the XD2 from Spa is 48-38-28.  I rarely use the top end, so that shouldn't be an issue, but is there anything else to consider? Cassette is 11-28, so it's the equivalent of dropping from the 11t to the 12t on the 52t chainring IYSWIM.  Spa are out of stock for 170mm cranks, so I'm thinking 172.5mm, which is bugger all difference I reckon.

[Paul]

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p2830/SPA-CYCLES-XD-2-Touring-Triple-Chainset-With-Stronglight-Zicral-Rings

This is a nice chainset. Foe me, the 46-36-24 would probably be best, I'm a twiddler. There's nothing on the website that I can see to suggest they have no 170mm cranks, but I haven't (yet) gone as far as ordering.

For price, though, this http://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p3/STRONGLIGHT-Impact-Triple is hard to beat. I wonder if the logo would come off...

[phantasmagoriana]

The stiffness is definitely noticeable.

Noticeable by feel or by stopwatch? For while I can certainly feel the difference, it has done nothing measurable to my speed.

Feel. I very much doubt it made me any faster!

[Tim Hall]

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p2830/SPA-CYCLES-XD-2-Touring-Triple-Chainset-With-Stronglight-Zicral-Rings

This is a nice chainset. Foe me, the 46-36-24 would probably be best, I'm a twiddler. There's nothing on the website that I can see to suggest they have no 170mm cranks, but I haven't (yet) gone as far as ordering.

Ah, the one without 170mm cranks at present is the XD-2 Touring, with 6061 rings, which is a bit softer, I think, than Zicral. Like this: http://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p2000/SPA-CYCLES-XD-2-Touring-Triple-Chainset

For price, though, this http://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p3/STRONGLIGHT-Impact-Triple is hard to beat. I wonder if the logo would come off...

I saw that. I think I'll go for that (and a new 105 front mech).

[Tod28]

I wonder if the logo would come off...

Note that Spa state  "In the event that we are out of stock of the chainset you order we will supply the unbranded XD-2 with Stronglight Dural rings"
Which was the case when I purchased one (a few years ago) and the XD2 is logo free.  You can equally buy the XD2 cranks with Dural Stronglight rings and bolts separately but I think it adds up to a couple of £s more.  The shifting is faultless with FD-5703 and hasn't altered over 5 years  and 15,000 miles - nor have the Dural rings worn.

[Jurek]

For price, though, this http://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p3/STRONGLIGHT-Impact-Triple is hard to beat. I wonder if the logo would come off...

I saw that. I think I'll go for that (and a new 105 front mech).

A wise move, Tim, if I may say so.
Much as I am over-fond of teh shiney from the fishing reel manufacturer, and wouldn't consider fitting anything else.....
This morning I saw something that the style police wouldn't so much have pressed for a custodial sentence, more a summary execution.
Having skipped the trial.

Picture this.
Yellow E.G. Bates flying gate with barber-pole detail.
Down tube, un-indexed shifters.
So far so good, ok.
Now it gets interesting.
Chris King headset. Anodised. Red.
 
What? What? What?
Why? Why? Why?
There's more....
What looks like the latest incarnation of Hollowtech II chainset.
 
It has just hurt my eyes to write that.
Wronger than Jimmy Saville.

Don't misunderstand me ( I nearly wrote 'don't get me wrong') I don't think the flying gate is a particularly lovely frame.
Quirky, as in quirky experiments go, yes. But not especially pretty.
But it does have a particular ethos about it - in the same way that the Mercian with lovingly lined lug-work does - and so deserves to be treated accordingly.

FWIW, I think you've gone for the better choice.
Gagging to see the bike when it is finished - I think the last time I saw it it was still pink magenta.

[Tim Hall]

I wonder if the logo would come off...

Note that Spa state  "In the event that we are out of stock of the chainset you order we will supply the unbranded XD-2 with Stronglight Dural rings"
Which was the case when I purchased one (a few years ago) and the XD2 is logo free.  You can equally buy the XD2 cranks with Dural Stronglight rings and bolts separately but I think it adds up to a couple of £s more.  The shifting is faultless with FD-5703 and hasn't altered over 5 years  and 15,000 miles - nor have the Dural rings worn.

And that's what they did for me. Parcel arrived today.  Jurek, surely we've ridden together since the Great Respraying of a few years ago?  Maybe I've been on t'cog on those occasions.

[Paul]

May we have pics when fitted?