What wheels should I consider for loooong rides?

[αdαmsκι]

Having had two spoke breakages in the past month, I'm starting to think I should replace the Mavic Askium wheels that are on my Ribble bike with something more reliable before I start doing >400 km audax rides. I'll need something that'll fit 700 x 23/25 cc tyres and will take a Campag 10 speed cassette. The rim of choice seems to be Mavic Open Pro. Is 32 spoke front and back OK, or would I be better getting 36 spoke at the back? And what about hubs?

I know it'll be cheaper if I make the wheels myself, but that's never going to happen because I don't fancy starting to learn how to build wheels with expensive parts. Plus I mechanically inept and would end up with something looking like a pringle. Or more likely I wouldn't even start to make the wheels and instead would spend months ignoring the box containing the bits.

[Tewdric]

I think you're wise to get some conventional spoked wheels, if for no other reason than they are much easier to fix at the roadside if anything goes wrong.  

Vanilla Open Pros wear quite quickly as they have a thinnish braking surface, although this makes them light and quick, which is a good thing.  The ceramic version gives the best of both worlds as the braking surface lasts a lot longer.  Spendy though.

Rigida Chrinas are a cheaper and harder-wearing alternative as they have thicker braking surfaces, but they feel sluggish compared to Open Pro.  DT 1.1 double eyelet are also excellent lightweight rims - think of them as a de-luxe Open Pro.  

Think about a dynohub front wheel - not as essential as they were with the advent of high power LED battery torches, but still the best solution for a lot of us.  The Schmidt is the one to have and that dictates a 32h front, but you'd be better off with a 36h rear - minimal weight penalty but less drama if a spoke does break on you.  I'd be tempted to look at a DT rear hub rather than a campag rear too.

The big advantage of building your own wheels as a randonneur is that it's then easy and unintimidating to fix them when they go wrong.  Well worth the effort and not as difficult as you might think.

[andrew_s]

Think about a dynohub front wheel - not as essential as they were with the advent of high power LED battery torches, but still the best solution for a lot of us.  The Schmidt is the one to have and that dictates a 32h front

no it doesn't- Schmidt hubs come in anything from 20 to 48 hole versions, if you look.

[Polar Bear]

The Schmidt is the one to have and that dictates a 32h front...

Absolutely not.  All four of ours have 36 holes, and, I'm lead to believe that they do 40 and 48 hole versions on request.

[Tewdric]

Think about a dynohub front wheel - not as essential as they were with the advent of high power LED battery torches, but still the best solution for a lot of us.  The Schmidt is the one to have and that dictates a 32h front

no it doesn't- Schmidt hubs come in anything from 20 to 48 hole versions, if you look.

I sit corrected.

[αdαmsκι]

I hadn't considered a dyno hub, but that does make some sense. It'll cost more, but if I don't need to buy another Hope Vision I light then there's £70 that could go towards the hub. Hmm.....

[vorsprung]

What do you weigh?

If you go 36h at the back then your choices are limited to cheap or exotic.  Campag don't make a 36h hub

cheap: ambrosio zenith, miche box
exotic: hope, goldtec, royce

I have the ambrosios and I cannot recommend them
The hopes have a good rep
You might have trouble ordering the goldtec

[Polar Bear]

I hadn't considered a dyno hub, but that does make some sense. It'll cost more, but if I don't need to buy another Hope Vision I light then there's £70 that could go towards the hub. Hmm.....

No, it's £70 that you need to buy a reasonable set of LED dynamo lights. 

[αdαmsκι]

What do you weigh?

75 kg.

If you go 36h at the back then your choices are limited to cheap or exotic.  Campag don't make a 36h hub

Ah. I see. If it were possible then I figured 36h would be the more sensible choice, but if that's going to cost me a load of money then I'll happily go with 32h.

No, it's £70 that you need to buy a reasonable set of LED dynamo lights.  

D'oh!

[Polar Bear]

What do you weigh?

If you go 36h at the back then your choices are limited to cheap or exotic.  Campag don't make a 36h hub

cheap: ambrosio zenith, miche box
exotic: hope, goldtec, royce

I have the ambrosios and I cannot recommend them
The hopes have a good rep
You might have trouble ordering the goldtec

I'm a big chap and have run an Ambrosio rear as supplied by Harry Rowland as part of a wheel build for four years with absolutely no problems.   I hope I haven't cursed myself now    

[nmcgann]

What do you weigh?

If you go 36h at the back then your choices are limited to cheap or exotic.  Campag don't make a 36h hub

cheap: ambrosio zenith, miche box
exotic: hope, goldtec, royce

I have the ambrosios and I cannot recommend them
The hopes have a good rep
You might have trouble ordering the goldtec

Yeah, I wouldn't go with the Zeniths either. The bearings went rough really quickly on mine. I use shimano so have stayed with good old cup&cone hubs - easy to service and last for ages 

I've done quite well with DT ST17 rims on my self-built wheels. They are cheap and long-lasting. The open pro is a lighter and nicer rim (the DTs are pinned joint rather than welded and a bit heavy), but quite expensive.

I fancy some of the DT RR1.1s for my summer bike....very nice.

[teethgrinder]

Goldtech make really good wheels. Their hubs are easily the best I've ever had, except maybe the Hope ones on my mountain bike. I think they do hubs for geared folk too.
Their wheelbuilding is good too but I still needed to retrue mine a bit after about 6000 miles. Better than most and it was still OK.
The only downside is that they use the Open Pro rims. They're good for summer, but not very meaty and don't have much braking surface. So you might want to get some ceramic rims, if Goldtech have them.

Mine are 32 because I think there's more choice in rims with 32 holes, but I'd prefer 36. They've coped well carrying all my shopping home from the supermarket in my panniers with so much weight that I could lift my front wheel by leaning back a bit while riding. I probably was carrying a teensy weensy bit more than the 25kg that my rack is rated to carry. 52kg would be closer I think.

[Adam]

I've been extremely pleased with my Planet X Model B wheels.  Pretty light but very strong, and very well balanced.  I've gone over a lot of rough stuff and they're still perfectly true.

Only £99 and they do them in Campag.  Although possibly not enough spokes for you?

[MSeries]

Everyone is going to tell you what they have now. I don't use campag cassettes though so I am not going to.

If it was me I'd choose a mid to top of the range Campag. hubs, maybe NOS, OpenPro or Chrina rims, DT Swiss Comp spokes. Build them myself. Cost would determine my rim and hub choice, I'd use OpenPros if I could afford them, Chrinas if not

[Biggsy]

I have the ambrosios and I cannot recommend them

What problems have you had?  I'm thinking of getting one as a spare.

[Paul D]

Everyone is going to tell you what they have now.

Indeed. I think a budget needs to be specified so we know whether we are talking Chrinas or ceramic plated carbon filled with helium for lightness.

My two-penniesworth: I built my money-no-object wheels for the looooong- distance bike with Open Pros on Hope Mono hubs in 2006. I'm ~83kg and have only had one rear spoke go in 4 years on 32 front & back. I would concentrate on a good build rather than the slight differences in strength between 32 and 36, especially if you're 75kg.

I bulit a matching duno hub shortly after, and saved a few pennies by using a shimano hub. It's been fine, but I lament not getting the Schmidt.

[αdαmsκι]

Indeed. I think a budget needs to be specified so we know whether we are talking Chrinas or ceramic plated carbon filled with helium for lightness.

Hmm. I've never bought road wheels before and so I'm a bit unsure what's a realistic value. Say ~£160 for a non-dyno front & back? I can say that the budget isn't going to stretch to ceramic plated carbon bling!

My two-penniesworth: I built my money-no-object wheels for the looooong- distance bike with Open Pros on Hope Mono hubs in 2006. I'm ~83kg and have only had one rear spoke go in 4 years on 32 front & back. I would concentrate on a good build rather than the slight differences in strength between 32 and 36, especially if you're 75kg.

OK, that's good to hear. I'll just go with 32h.

I bulit a matching duno hub shortly after, and saved a few pennies by using a shimano hub. It's been fine, but I lament not getting the Schmidt.

Why so?

Goldtech make really good wheels. Their hubs are easily the best I've ever had, except maybe the Hope ones on my mountain bike. I think they do hubs for geared folk too.

Goldtech don't seem to do Campag hubs, but thanks for the suggestion.

[Biggsy]

You're going to have to get cheap hubs with that budget.  If opting for Ambrosio, 36h is available and will give you more insurance at the expense of only a few grams per wheel.

Please see 32h vs 36h wheels for touring?.

[mike]

I bulit a matching duno hub shortly after, and saved a few pennies by using a shimano hub. It's been fine, but I lament not getting the Schmidt.

Why so?

dunno if it was the same for Paul D, but when I bought a schmidt for Mrs Mike's bike and saw how smoothly it ran compared to the shimano on mine, I did a swap when she wasnt looking.  She noticed    

[αdαmsκι]

You're going to have to get cheap hubs with that budget.  If opting for Ambrosio, 36h is available and will give you more insurance at the expense of only a few grams per wheel.

Ah OK

*Raids the piggy banks*

OK, like I said I've no idea how much a wheelset will cost. I realise that the more money I spend the better wheels I'll get, and they should also last longer. I also know they're going to get a lot of usage of the next few years, so it's probably worth spending the extra cash.

[alexb]

Why no votes for Mavic Open Sports? I've been using Mavic MA2s, MA3s and now Open Sports for the commuting bike for years. They wear well, better than my Open Pros, which after 1 1/2 seasons are now paper thin and will need replacing. for the slight weight gain, I think I'll just get Open Sports and have done with it.

As for hubs, I'm running a Shimano Dynamo hub up front. No problems with it at all. The money I saved over a Schmidt bought me my rear wheel.

The rear wheel used a Campag Mirage sealed bearing hub and those bearings went rough and then loose over the course of the year. I have spares and will replace them, but it's pretty disappointing performance.

I was tempted  to replace them  with the new Halo hubs, the SpinMaster Pro looks like a good specification for £70 Halorims_Hubs - NEW Spin Master Pro Road Rear hub. - Product Information

[oncemore]

At 75grams per rim heavier than open pros (assuming both manfrs "accurate"), I reckon Chrinas good value. Any perceived "sluggish"ness as likely to be a reflection of tyres and hubs as much as that 150grms!

[Biggsy]

The wheels won't cost very much more than the cost of the hubs, rims and spokes - so if you research those, you get the answer.

A few years ago, I would have suggested Chorus or Chorus-like Centaur hubs, but these are now discontinued, and I can't even find new old stock at the moment (except for fronts only).

If you can afford it, there's a pair of super-quality Record 36h hubs @ £200 from Total Cycling, or 32h @ £160 from Parker International.  At the other end of the scale, there's Ambrosio @ £70 (pair) from JE James.

Open Pro rims are £64 pounds a pair, or £44 for Open Sport, or £32 for Chrina.

Spokes will be about 25p to 85p each.  Recommended: Sapim Race or DT Competition.

[teethgrinder]

A few years ago, I would have suggested Chorus or Chorus-like Centaur hubs, but these are now discontinued, and I can't even find new old stock at the moment (except for fronts only).

Have you tried Whiskers in Goffs Oak, Hertfordshire?
It has odd opening hours and not open every day. No on-line shop either.
Very good shop though. Very cheap and good for Campag stuff.

[Rhys W]

Why no votes for Mavic Open Sports? I've been using Mavic MA2s, MA3s and now Open Sports for the commuting bike for years. They wear well, better than my Open Pros, which after 1 1/2 seasons are now paper thin and will need replacing. for the slight weight gain, I think I'll just get Open Sports and have done with it.

Ah, people round here don't like them. I'm surprised you haven't been rounded upon and made fun of for even mentioning them!  

Apparently, it's do with the lack of double eyelets or something. I've been using them (and their previous incarnations MA2/MA3) for years on my winter bike with no problems. As you say, there's a bit more metal to wear away and they're cheap (good for things that will wear out and need replacing anyway). I'm a big fan.