Commuter – Bicycle Light - University survey

[AdamMotlock]

Hi fellow cyclists,

I am currently proceeding through my major project work for my final year product Design degree at the University of derby and I have, as you may already know, been posting many different things on this forums. I have now established that one of the major problems with cycling is safety, focusing on commuter/ urban cyclists. I am now looking into the current problems that are faced with cycling lights. I have a survey that I would really appreciate if you could fill it in, the point of the survey is to establish what problems you have with current lights you use and what you think could be improved.

I will be looking back at this thread daily to give replies and would appreciate any further thoughts to discuss on here.


https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/MLWVQ8H

Thanks,

Adam 

[Charlotte]

I have now established that one of the major problems with cycling is safety

How did you do that, Adam?  Would you tell us?

I am now looking into the current problems that are faced with cycling lights.

Because you can make cycling safer with better lights?

I have a survey...

Of course you do... 

...that I would really appreciate if you could fill it in, the point of the survey is to establish what problems you have with current lights you use and what you think could be improved.

I've filled in your survey and I'm going to tell you again what's wrong with cycle lights:

The batteries need to last longer and they need to focus better.  They need to be more durable and they could do with being easier to fit to a bike, but less easy to steal.  In other words,  I'd be quite happy if someone would make them faster, better or cheaper - preferably all three. 

But do you know what?  That's a job for engineers rather than product designers.  Bike lights are pretty bloody good right now (I know - I use them) and what's going to make them better is battery and lens technology, microprocessor design and materials technology.  'Product design' comes a pretty poor second place to those rather important disciplines.

I will be looking back at this thread daily to give replies and would appreciate any further thoughts to discuss on here.

Okay, you asked for it - so here are my thoughts:

Stop telling everyone that cycling has a major safety problem.  It doesn't. 
Cycling is an inherently safe activity and the number one threat to the safety of cyclists are people who operate motor vehicles.

Stop making it seem like it's a cyclist's responsibility to improve their overall safety through buying more and more safety-related equipment.  It's not. 
Cyclists are, on the whole, a pretty safe bunch of individuals and you're perpetuating a culture of victim blaming that's not helping anyone.

Go invent a self driving car and do us all a favour 

[Kim]

I too have filled in the survey.  And included a hopefully useful comment about the frequent failure of bicycle light designs being that the mounting brackets are an afterthought.

But I'm basically in agreement with Charlotte.  Cycling has a *perceived* safety problem, mainly by people who don't cycle (often because of the perceived safety problem).  On a small scale, kitting them out with ever more safety gadgets will probably sell some gadgets and may persuade them onto their bikes, but it's also a shot in the foot for cycling in general, because it adds to the impression that it's much more dangerous than it is.

Which isn't to say that bicycle safety can't be improved with well-designed lights, but not for the reasons that everyone seems to assume.  Pretty much any piece of crap light that's still attached to the bike and isn't broken will do the job for getting you seen by motorists.  But motorists aren't the only risk - just the scariest looking one.  What lights can do is help you spot nasty potholes, loose gravel, invisible retracting dog-leads, well-hidden signposts or whatever, and there's plenty of room for innovation in the field of lights that give you a good view of the road without blinding or irritating other users.  But that's not sexy as a 'product'.  Perhaps you could find a way to make it be?

[TheLurker]

As far as I can see lights for bikes are pretty much a solved problem.

For under GBP50, sometimes well under, you can buy LED front lamps that are more than bright enough for town use such as the Cateye HL-EL510.

For significantly less than GBP100 you can buy LED front lamps that are extremely good for rural commutes.  I use Ixon IQs but there is a wide variety of comparable (and better) units.

Battery life for LED lamps is on the whole excellent.

When suitable rechargeable batteries are used the running cost is negligible.

LED lamps are not prone to bulb failure.

If batteries aren't your bag then modern hub dynamos are extremely good and have very little drag although they are quite expensive to start with.

As for rear lamps you can spend as little as a fiver and still get reasonable battery life and high intensity.

[Basil]

@charlotte. 

Anyway, as I filled in the Q, I thought I'd quite like a light that has a simple "dip" button.  But having thought about it further, I realise that my main light is set to a pretty well dipped position anyway.
So I'll change that to "A switch that moves the beam from it's normal position to Up and slightly Across the road".  This would be for the delivering of a CLUE to muppet car drivers on dark country lanes who don't think they'll bother to dip their lights for cyclists.

[Kim]

Yeah, I'd quite like a switch to control a 'main beam' light from the handlebars of my recumbent.  But that's not a commuter bike, and it appears that B&M have worked this out already.

[Bledlow]

Stop telling everyone that cycling has a major safety problem.  It doesn't. 
Cycling is an inherently safe activity and the number one threat to the safety of cyclists are people who operate motor vehicles.

Stop making it seem like it's a cyclist's responsibility to improve their overall safety through buying more and more safety-related equipment.  It's not. 
Cyclists are, on the whole, a pretty safe bunch of individuals and you're perpetuating a culture of victim blaming that's not helping anyone.

Go invent a self driving car and do us all a favour 

+1. In spades.

Re cycling lights.
In general they're vastly better than they used to be, & although it'd be nice to have the perfect light, they're good enough for there to be no real issue with safety & lights (prett much what TheLurker says), that I can see - except that basic bikes don't come with robust, pretty damn near foolproof lights fitted as standard.

[Clare]

Well, I answered it as well and didn't mention the elephant gun at all.

However, your questionaire doesn't take account of those of us who use dynohubs.

[clarion]

Charlotte +1.

And there's absolutely no point whatsoever in my even starting to answer a survey that doesn't allow for Dynohubs.  Even my vintage bike has one.

[Polar Bear]

The B&M Lumotec IQ Fly has a 'dip' mode and is easily accessible from the bars of an upwrong whilst moving.   I know this because I use this wonderful facility on a regular basis.

Absolutely agree with all comments made in reply to the OP above.   

In my opinion you are looking in the wrong place - safety of cyclists, and indeed all non-motorists is directly related to the lack of ability of drivers tearing around carelessly in machines which they seem not to have absolute control of.   Go look at how to improve driving standards and design something to address a real issue please. 

Oh, my lights are just great so no need to waste your time there matey.   

[redshift]

Adam, are you the same chap that did a survey that asked questions about what emotional relationship or response I have with products I own?

If so, I really think you're making a habit of barking up the wrong dog...

[Bledlow]

Charlotte +1.

And there's absolutely no point whatsoever in my even starting to answer a survey that doesn't allow for Dynohubs.  Even my vintage bike has one.

Yeah. I owned one in 1985, when I lived in Utrecht. It was on the secondhand bike I bought to fit in with the locals, so not exactly new. They've been around a long time, & never gone away.

[Canardly]

Why are colleges not telling students to test questionnaires?  Don't they teach research methodology any more?

[Karla]

Please can you only fill this questionnaire out if you are a commuter cyclists

Sorry Adam, I don't have multiple personality disorder so I didn't fill out this survey.  Other than that, what Charlotte said.

[Kim]

Why are colleges not telling students to test questionnaires?  Don't they teach research methodology any more?

Maybe they're teaching the Slashdot methodology?

1) Hack up questionable (TBAGO) in SurveyMonkey
2) Post to YACF
3)
4) Profit!

[Polar Bear]

Charlotte +1.

And there's absolutely no point whatsoever in my even starting to answer a survey that doesn't allow for Dynohubs.  Even my vintage bike has one.

Well, you do get asked if you're interested in lights built into bikes.   that's more or less dynamo setups if you ask me.

[Kim]

Please can you only fill this questionnaire out if you are a commuter cyclists

Sorry Adam, I don't have multiple personality disorder so I didn't fill out this survey.

You'd like it in Birmingham:  http://goo.gl/maps/aFeOJ

[Kim]

Well, you do get asked if you're interested in lights built into bikes.   that's more or less dynamo setups if you ask me.

Hadn't thought of that interpretation, though it makes a lot of sense.  I was thinking Van Moof...

[Basil]

Why are colleges not telling students to test questionnaires?  Don't they teach research methodology any more?

Well, to be fair, maybe that is what he is doing.  Prolly just making up bicycle related stuff in an effort to fit with the audience.  Perhaps he has similar about foopball boots on footy related sites.

[Clare]

Why are colleges not telling students to test questionnaires?  Don't they teach research methodology any more?

How do you know we're not the test?

[RichMoss]

Adam, I've filled in your questionnaire and also looked back at your earlier posts - you started to get near to the issue on 20th Oct when you stated "...the main complaints were road users passing them too closely and being generally unaware of the distance they should give cyclists." However, you then drew the false conclusion that this would be solved by a lighting product solution. The issue is more about human behaviour. I've had instances where I've been well lit and with high visibility clothing where motorists haven't seen me, because they're looking for cars and don't expect to see a cyclist. Not so much "sorry mate, I didn't see you" but "sorry I wasn't looking properly."

I'm another happy dynohub user. I don't want it 'built into my bike' - I want the flexibility to move kit between bikes and it needs to durable and simple enough that if a component part fails, I can easily repair of replace that part, rather than a larger module - which may become obsolete due to some whimsical design change such as the need for next years new shape.

If you want to design a better light, fine, but you'd be better asking what people do or don't like about their lights (as others have said above, improvements are more likely to come with technological advances) - unless you can develop one that stops people phoning, texting, etc. while driving and gets them to drive with due care and attention.

Good luck with your project.

[mrcharly-YHT]

I get the feeling that Adam doesn't do much cycling.

In the 'Light features' bit, waterproofing and durability aren't listed. Those are kind of important.

For 'Additional features', I put;
"Add spacial sensor that detected vehicles that were about to pass too close and incinerated them a chemical laser."

[clarion]

mrcharly, I think I would buy that product!

[Charlotte]

I get the feeling that Adam doesn't do much cycling.

I get the feeling that thanks to an ill-informed and lazy course tutor at the University of derby^* we're going to be plagued by undergraduates who think that cycling needs to be made safer by selling cyclists more useless STUFF. 


^*Don't they use capital letters in academia any more?

[clarion]

derby doesn't deserve a capital letter.  In fact, I'm not sure how Bishop Lonsdale & Wilmorton Teacher Training Colleges even became a University.  Some of my contemporaries enrolled on the only degree course offered by Derby College of Further Education (as it had become at the time) - Power Engineering, certified by Nottingham University.  But, when it was inspected, even that was withdrawn as not up to standard.