Author Topic: Base training  (Read 250182 times)

Re: Base training
« Reply #875 on: 02 March, 2018, 01:56:38 pm »
I applied rule 5 and got on the trainer at lunchtime. I'm really going well at the moment - I wonder if I'm gonna get another FTP bump at the end of this block.
https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/18396244-mt-hale
I also found some cheap secondhand aero bars locally, so my "speciality" phase (due to start in 3 weeks) can be done on them. :)

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #876 on: 02 March, 2018, 05:34:52 pm »
After 6 weeks completely off the bike and then a gradual build up after my off I regained the speed just not the endurance I guess. Only three short (3-4 miles) rides outside since Oct 8, to ensure I registered a time for the Gorilla Tour of Oundle Strava challenge. So far so good, only 19" behind the prologue winner.
Stage 1 results

This was mainly done using my 2 free months of Sufferfest. I will be switching from TrainerRoad to Sufferfest permanently now.

jiberjaber

  • ... Fancy Pants \o/ ...
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Re: Base training
« Reply #877 on: 02 March, 2018, 07:38:28 pm »
After 6 weeks completely off the bike and then a gradual build up after my off I regained the speed just not the endurance I guess. Only three short (3-4 miles) rides outside since Oct 8, to ensure I registered a time for the Gorilla Tour of Oundle Strava challenge. So far so good, only 19" behind the prologue winner.
Stage 1 results

This was mainly done using my 2 free months of Sufferfest. I will be switching from TrainerRoad to Sufferfest permanently now.

Is that on a PC or app ?  I have no ability to run it on a tablet/phone and I already have some of the videos which I use in TR, but if they had a PC app I might be tempted. VV were doing a free 60 days but I didn't take them up on it...

What was it about Sufferfest that has made you mind up out of interest?  I'd do similar with Xert if it wasn't for their dodgy app for their workouts - I really like the smart/dynamic approach to some of the workouts rather than a static prescription..

In other news, had to turn the fan on earlier tonight, wore my winter boots on the turbo, so fan was on before the start of the first interval on Kaiser  :thumbsup:
Regards,

Joergen

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #878 on: 02 March, 2018, 07:55:46 pm »
On a PC although it also works on an iPhone. The main reason for switching? Probably because although TR was good enough to use to prepare for TTs I think Sufferfest is much better for RR prep.

Re: Base training
« Reply #879 on: 04 March, 2018, 03:48:05 pm »
That was a hard workout today. 3*18 minute intervals at 97% threshold, and only 3 minutes rest between.https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/19002099-mount-goode-2
Mostly it as a mental test, physically there wasn't any point at which my legs couldn't do it (though getting the cadence right was a bit tricky). 2 hours later, I feel completely whacked! I guess that makes it a legit workout.

jiberjaber

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Re: Base training
« Reply #880 on: 04 March, 2018, 08:11:54 pm »
I did the TR ramp test yesterday, surprisingly nicer than expected compared with an 8 or 20min protocol, but the still haven't bolted on the warm down yet.

I was surprised how I just suddenly became unable to hold my 105 cadence and that was the end of the ramp.

It came out 45w or so higher than my last test so not sure I'll take that as my new FTP! Seems too big a gain but is broadly consistent with what Cert was telling me where I have put big efforts in on the road.
Regards,

Joergen

Re: Base training
« Reply #881 on: 04 March, 2018, 08:47:49 pm »
Are you looking at the top of the ramp  *0.76?

jiberjaber

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Re: Base training
« Reply #882 on: 05 March, 2018, 08:05:29 am »
Are you looking at the top of the ramp  *0.76?

You get a comment added to the workout (which helpfully isn't visible on the new version of the view but they still use the comment system as it sends an email to the user).

Quote
Thanks for helping out TrainerRoad by doing Ramp Test X! Based on the current formula, your FTP is 311.
https://www.trainerroad.com/career/jiberjaber/rides-new/18692746

My previous FTP based on 8min protocol was 259W and whilst doing some VO2 stuff last week, I did experiment with adding a few % to the intensity.  I'm not sure I would have been able to complete the workouts if they had been based on 311W FTP!
Regards,

Joergen

Re: Base training
« Reply #883 on: 05 March, 2018, 12:57:23 pm »
I got that sort of email/comment. Mine was within a few W of my 20 minute FTP test. Maybe it's worth trying to do an 8 minute (or 20 minute) FTP test with your power at the 311W level and see how well you do? It's a great result though - congrats. :)

The reason why I said 0.76 is because that's what it says they use on the Beta testers facebook page.

Re: Base training
« Reply #884 on: 05 March, 2018, 12:59:21 pm »
My previous FTP based on 8min protocol was 259W and whilst doing some VO2 stuff last week, I did experiment with adding a few % to the intensity.  I'm not sure I would have been able to complete the workouts if they had been based on 311W FTP!

Quite a big jump.

I started on TR a couple a few weeks ago, Sweet Spot Base, and doing an initial ramp test the FTP was ~5% up on a 20min test I'd done the week prior. So far I've found the workouts doable using this higher FTP but hard work, so it appears calibrated correctly for me...

It's with mixed emotions that I "look forward" to seeing an FTP increase when next testing. Double edged sword innit!

I'm a cycling returnee, got back on the turbo in the Autumn after years off. Currently at 3.2 w/kg, aiming for 3.5 by late summer. If that happens, will take it from there: 3.75? I've not done measured training like this before so I don't yet know what's possible (nor my motivation to make it happen). A bit of discovery ahead.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #885 on: 05 March, 2018, 01:05:32 pm »
Amen to that!

Re: Base training
« Reply #886 on: 05 March, 2018, 01:09:05 pm »
...also, already have low body fat, so no gains to be had from slimming down. Another double edged sword!

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #887 on: 05 March, 2018, 08:57:30 pm »
Been ill and then steroid jab. Two weeks mostly off. So ramp test!

New ftp 246. 2W drop. Without rounding just 1.5W drop.

Back on it now hopefully. Wrist pain free on turbo woo!

Re: Base training
« Reply #888 on: 06 March, 2018, 06:51:22 am »
Good to hear that your wrist is better, and only 1.5W down after 2 weeks off is probably good too. :)

It had been going really well recently, but today sucked. I just couldn't get my power up and then hold it - my lungs were OK but my legs weren't just doing it. My knee is a bit sore, so I couldn't just muscle it at 85rpm, so afterthe 4th interval I just gave it up and stretched a bit instead...
https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/19562945-kaiser-1

This is the last week of work (before the rest week) of the Build phase. I'm travelling with work on Thursday, and I'll be knackered on Friday, so I think I'll do the Saturday workout as planned, and then do the one I should do Thursday Tuesday next week.  Then I'll take the rest of the week off (for "rest"). Then I'll move onto the 40k TT speciality plan (and I'm collecting some cheapass aero bars today too :) ).

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #889 on: 06 March, 2018, 12:29:30 pm »
TrainerRoad said 243W in the comment.

Best minute was 324W. Multiply by 0.76 => 246.24W.

I know their actual formula has more tweaks than the basic 0.76. 243W is also fine and I'll probably go with this value.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #890 on: 06 March, 2018, 01:17:31 pm »
i am using 0.73 and it's pretty much spot on, except the vo2max intervals which i cannot complete until the end (so far)

Re: Base training
« Reply #891 on: 11 March, 2018, 09:09:33 am »
After spending Thursday travelling, and Friday chilling, I was back on it yesterday. I couldn't spin fast enough to sustain the power in the first interval, so went up 1 gear and let my cadence settle around 90. Aside from that, it felt good. I've only got 1 hard workout to go in this plan and then next week I'll start a new one (can't decide between another Build, or doing the 40TT Speciality one).
https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides-new/20835398-mount-goode-3
Last week's Mount Goode wiped me out for the rest of the day - this one I was fine afterwards. Maybe I'm getting fitter! :)

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #892 on: 13 March, 2018, 10:23:49 pm »
Based on 0.76 I did this:

https://www.trainerroad.com/career/sproven/rides-new/21963791-huffaker

 :sick:

My legs gave up in the last interval. I did the rest on target. I felt a bit of hunger before I started which perhaps means I needed a bit more food earlier in the day.

jiberjaber

  • ... Fancy Pants \o/ ...
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Re: Base training
« Reply #893 on: 13 March, 2018, 10:43:40 pm »
I tried to pace an 8min FTP test at the 8min power from the ramp test result... the result of which was a predictable pain cave and really bad 2nd interval! Absolute dogs dinner, I couldn't get enough oxygen in from breathing...  :facepalm:
Interestingly, the Xert FTP app had me at 280W on the basis of that 1st interval.

https://www.trainerroad.com/career/jiberjaber/rides-new/21819932-8-minute-ftp-test

3W improvement on last test so up to 262W from 259 but I suspect it would have been a better result if I had gone out at a lower pace for the first interval!...
Regards,

Joergen

Re: Base training
« Reply #894 on: 14 March, 2018, 02:14:31 pm »
That sounds brutal - both of you.
I overdid an 8 minute FTP test a few months ago - it was soul destroying starting the second interval and realising you just ain't gonna be able to keep it up. You did pretty well, mine was about 2 minutes of on target and then off a 100W cliff!

I've given up on the idea of doing the last hard workout now (barely slept on Monday night so I slept in on Tuesday morning instead of getting up to train). I'm gonna do one of the recovery week rides tomorrow, and then a Ramp Test X on Sunday. I also talked to my friendly local bikefitter, who said that the cheapass aero bars I had were too short and straight and not adjustable enough, so I've ordered some Profile T4. I'll get set up on them when they arrive (hopefully before the first TT of the year in early April). I also need to keep an eye on my food - the last few weeks I've not been paying attention and I've regained the 1.5kg I lost! :(

Re: Base training
« Reply #895 on: 19 March, 2018, 10:34:34 am »
I did Ramp Test X yesterday. It went pretty well, and I completed the 332W step but couldn't do the 346 one: https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides-new/23622661-ramp-test-x
No-one from Trainer Road has commented, so I don't know what they would set my FTP to, but if we assume they are doing something around 0.76*332 that would put my FTP at 252W. That seems like a bit of a step from 234 4 weeks ago (and 222 8 weeks ago). All with the same pedals. If I am above 250 I'll be super chuffed.  I was at 171W (Virtual Power) back in September.
The 40k TT plan says I should do a 20 minute FTP test on Tuesday, so I will set it to 252 (or whatever TR suggest) and than try to hit that - that will be a reasonable measure of how well I can do at ~250W.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #896 on: 19 March, 2018, 11:48:38 am »
i did a ramp test yesterday too, 1min power was 5w higher than three weeks ago, so it's all going in the right direction and i've reached a milestone of 4.5w/kg

tr post comments on ramp tests during their working hours in the us, so sometime today or tomorrow

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #897 on: 19 March, 2018, 11:55:19 am »
I did Ramp Test X yesterday. It went pretty well, and I completed the 332W step but couldn't do the 346 one: https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides-new/23622661-ramp-test-x
No-one from Trainer Road has commented, so I don't know what they would set my FTP to, but if we assume they are doing something around 0.76*332 that would put my FTP at 252W. That seems like a bit of a step from 234 4 weeks ago (and 222 8 weeks ago). All with the same pedals. If I am above 250 I'll be super chuffed.  I was at 171W (Virtual Power) back in September.
The 40k TT plan says I should do a 20 minute FTP test on Tuesday, so I will set it to 252 (or whatever TR suggest) and than try to hit that - that will be a reasonable measure of how well I can do at ~250W.

I think you should be using 343W (best 1-minute power which is from 19:30 to 20:30 in the workout).

So that would give 261W if they are still using 0.76. Note they went slightly lower in my case, I think there are tweaks and they may have reduced from 0.76.


simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #898 on: 19 March, 2018, 11:55:38 am »
I struggled the last few days. Too tired.

Re: Base training
« Reply #899 on: 19 March, 2018, 12:03:17 pm »
I did Ramp Test X yesterday. It went pretty well, and I completed the 332W step but couldn't do the 346 one: https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides-new/23622661-ramp-test-x
No-one from Trainer Road has commented, so I don't know what they would set my FTP to, but if we assume they are doing something around 0.76*332 that would put my FTP at 252W. That seems like a bit of a step from 234 4 weeks ago (and 222 8 weeks ago). All with the same pedals. If I am above 250 I'll be super chuffed.  I was at 171W (Virtual Power) back in September.
The 40k TT plan says I should do a 20 minute FTP test on Tuesday, so I will set it to 252 (or whatever TR suggest) and than try to hit that - that will be a reasonable measure of how well I can do at ~250W.

I think you should be using 343W (best 1-minute power which is from 19:30 to 20:30 in the workout).

So that would give 261W if they are still using 0.76. Note they went slightly lower in my case, I think there are tweaks and they may have reduced from 0.76.
That would be insane. I'd be happy with anything over 250 - over 260 would make me feel like I overtested! Then again, I'm not sure I've managed to go so deep on previous tests, even after a few minutes spinning down when I went in the house to stretch I felt very sick! Plus my ribs hurt today (too much pulling on the bars)! I wonder if the ramp test doesn't work so well for dumb trainers, because it's hard to sit at the right level for each minute. I'll wait for the TR people to comment before I update my FTP.

Zigzag - 4.5W/kg is very impressive. While my power has gone up in the last couple of months my weight has too (almost 2kg). Even 262W would only give me 3.5W/kg.