Author Topic: Base training  (Read 252127 times)

Re: Base training
« Reply #400 on: 04 January, 2017, 11:11:25 pm »
Had blood lactate testing today. Not got the results yet, but my resting BL was 3.8mmol. I fear I may still be overdoing it.

Have to wait for the results, but looking back over my previous data with my coach (feels weird saying that), he said not to be disheartened if it hasn't gone up much as I'm just in build phase 1, and my Time To Exhaustion has gone up. He's just done a load of training with Joe Friel, and TTE appears to be a new WKO4 metric from Andrew Coggan.

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/introduction-of-the-new-time-to-exhaustion-metric-in-wko4

I suspect him saying that means he's already seen I've not gained much in the modeled FTP metric mentioned on that page.Going to discuss what to do for the next 6 weeks tomorrow, but initial plan is to drop the intensity a little (in that I'm failing to complete the last rep of threshold on the hardest days of the hard weeks and increase the volume a bit to hit the desired TSS.


simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #401 on: 05 January, 2017, 12:07:20 am »
When you start out and your FTP is X and you increase it to Y. Then you increase the time you can spend at FTP.

It's interesting that you are doing a build plan at this time of year. I'm very much in base for the next several weeks and I may extend that.

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #402 on: 05 January, 2017, 07:41:06 am »
Had blood lactate testing today. Not got the results yet, but my resting BL was 3.8mmol.

That is very high, close to the normally accepted value of OBLA (4 mmol). I would seriously question the accuracy of the test if I were you. It should be nearer to 1.5 mmol.

Re: Base training
« Reply #403 on: 05 January, 2017, 07:48:56 am »
DrMekon
I suspect I have asked this before but where did you go?
Secondly is it worth it?  I know from a nerdy geeky way it is totally worth it.  But is it worth a day of my time when i could be earning money or training on the bike.  Is it going to give my coach and I anything really useful?

thanks

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #404 on: 05 January, 2017, 08:18:35 am »

Re: Base training
« Reply #405 on: 05 January, 2017, 08:49:46 am »
Had blood lactate testing today. Not got the results yet, but my resting BL was 3.8mmol.

That is very high, close to the normally accepted value of OBLA (4 mmol). I would seriously question the accuracy of the test if I were you. It should be nearer to 1.5 mmol.
I think he's using a Lactate Scout+, and the pattern is that it drops as I warm up. The numbers I got were realistic in terms of threshold, whereas strava used a 20m test protocol that hugely overestimated what I could do.

I'll ask him about the model he's using and calibration though.


Re: Base training
« Reply #406 on: 05 January, 2017, 09:11:11 am »
DrMekon
I suspect I have asked this before but where did you go?
Secondly is it worth it?  I know from a nerdy geeky way it is totally worth it.  But is it worth a day of my time when i could be earning money or training on the bike.  Is it going to give my coach and I anything really useful?

thanks
Hard to say. I work from home a lot, and my coach comes to me, so it's not disruptive. Also, it's part of my coaching, and his prices are very modest. I'd say that it's worth it if you aren't sure of your zones or you find FTP testing aversive / disruptive in the context of your schedule. However, if you don't mind FTP testing and are confident of the protocol you are using, and can motivate yourself to give it your best, I'm not clear what more it offers (I've not looked). Also, I suspect if you are testing regularly, with judicious use of zip ties you could set one up so you could administer it yourself. I suspect with the cost of the device and consumables, you could save yourself money over the usual charge in a year of regular testing.

I'm working with Iain Findlay. He used to work in my LBS and did my bike fittings before he branched out. I really like him, in that he's geeky (we send each other journal articles).

https://painfreepower.com/

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #407 on: 05 January, 2017, 09:36:08 am »
I've not had lactate testing since the one time in 2009. I have had testing using RQ and this seems to be in the same ballpark as the numbers I get from the TrainerRoad 2x8m test.

Generally the TR test has come up with a slightly lower number but the ramp test protocol steps by 20W and they can't really say 270W or 275W. When I got 280W and used that in TR I spent the next month struggling in workouts. I then tested in TR and got 276W, so given the month of training I'd probably been. between 270-275W.

What you get from LT or RQ testing is more than just a single number, for instance the RQ tests indicated a substantially improved fat burning at low intensity after doing a sweet spot base plan.

Re: Base training
« Reply #408 on: 05 January, 2017, 07:47:45 pm »
Thank you.  I think I won't bother as I am seeing good steady gains and I don't think it would add much at my level of training.

Started trying to up the power work and have started doing a weights session at the opposite end of the day to the turbo session.  Legs feel heavy but seem to be coping so at the moment I plan to continue.


Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #409 on: 05 January, 2017, 08:00:27 pm »
5x10' @ 101%FTP today. Very pleased with that considering I had over 2 weeks off. I'll see how the next 2 weeks go and if all is well I'll probably up my TR FTP setting by 5%. My anaerobic threshold HR seems to be 3-4 BPM higher than this time last year.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #410 on: 05 January, 2017, 08:32:57 pm »
I suspect your FTP is set too low.

I did 3x12m undulating intervals between 95-99% FTP. Legs felt heavy initially but it was ok once I'd settled in.

422 TSS in 4 days.

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #411 on: 06 January, 2017, 07:18:05 am »
I suspect your FTP is set too low.

5x10' @101% with 5' recoveries is perfectly doable, although very hard, but you are correct, my FTP is a little low based on my sessions leading up to my crash. I was about to increase it then but will wait a bit now. I suppose if you use a smart turbo that controls the resistance for you then an accurate FTP is important, with a basic fluid one you can easily (?) just work a bit harder. All my intervals are done at the maximum effort I can manage based on duration/reps/recovery, no point doing a 10' session at an intensity less than what you could do for a 25 m TT (which is what your FTP is) in my opinion.

Re: Base training
« Reply #412 on: 07 January, 2017, 01:39:04 pm »

That is very high, close to the normally accepted value of OBLA (4 mmol). I would seriously question the accuracy of the test if I were you. It should be nearer to 1.5 mmol.

Hmm - thanks for flagging this. I mentioned this to him, and he asked me to list what meds I'm on. I've started googling, and type B lactic acidosis looks possible - I'm on a load of the meds implicated. I've emailed a prof in pharmacy for advice, and have an appt with my respiratory consultant in mid feb. My treatment seems very aggressive to me (on 12 meds currently, and had to resist being put on a 13th, which is why he called me back - he's worried about my waking at night, constant heartburn, and subjective chest tightness). Colleagues have expressed concern about the amount of drugs I'm on, and I have said before that the answer always seems to be more drugs. I've asked for tests before and for physio for my lung condition. I must chase these up.

If this proves to be the case, I shall be very grateful for the early warning - by the sounds of it, you can get in to quite a spiral if you go down this path.

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #413 on: 07 January, 2017, 05:21:59 pm »
Rest day yesterday and 4x15' @ 95-99% today but couldn't hit the target power for the last two intervals but a good hard session nevertheless. HR still  higher than expected but that's possibly due to the 2 weeks off.

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #414 on: 07 January, 2017, 05:28:37 pm »
DrMekon I hope it's not, it sounds like you don't need any more issues! GWS

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #415 on: 08 January, 2017, 02:44:22 pm »
Struggled with the last set today. Yesterday was rowing training plus a trip to London on the motorbike so felt tired this morning.

Going to finish this 7 day cycle with an easy workout later, rest day tomorrow.

Also, I'm starving.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #416 on: 08 January, 2017, 03:32:48 pm »



That is very high, close to the normally accepted value of OBLA (4 mmol). I would seriously question the accuracy of the test if I were you. It should be nearer to 1.5 mmol.

Hmm - thanks for flagging this. I mentioned this to him, and he asked me to list what meds I'm on. I've started googling, and type B lactic acidosis looks possible - I'm on a load of the meds implicated. I've emailed a prof in pharmacy for advice, and have an appt with my respiratory consultant in mid feb. My treatment seems very aggressive to me (on 12 meds currently, and had to resist being put on a 13th, which is why he called me back - he's worried about my waking at night, constant heartburn, and subjective chest tightness). Colleagues have expressed concern about the amount of drugs I'm on, and I have said before that the answer always seems to be more drugs. I've asked for tests before and for physio for my lung condition. I must chase these up.

If this proves to be the case, I shall be very grateful for the early warning - by the sounds of it, you can get in to quite a spiral if you go down this path.

i'm of the opinion that human body tends to fix itself, given the right environment/conditions. what would happen if you stopped taking pills? (not that i would advise doing that)


Re: Base training
« Reply #417 on: 08 January, 2017, 04:47:10 pm »



That is very high, close to the normally accepted value of OBLA (4 mmol). I would seriously question the accuracy of the test if I were you. It should be nearer to 1.5 mmol.

Hmm - thanks for flagging this. I mentioned this to him, and he asked me to list what meds I'm on. I've started googling, and type B lactic acidosis looks possible - I'm on a load of the meds implicated. I've emailed a prof in pharmacy for advice, and have an appt with my respiratory consultant in mid feb. My treatment seems very aggressive to me (on 12 meds currently, and had to resist being put on a 13th, which is why he called me back - he's worried about my waking at night, constant heartburn, and subjective chest tightness). Colleagues have expressed concern about the amount of drugs I'm on, and I have said before that the answer always seems to be more drugs. I've asked for tests before and for physio for my lung condition. I must chase these up.

If this proves to be the case, I shall be very grateful for the early warning - by the sounds of it, you can get in to quite a spiral if you go down this path.

i'm of the opinion that human body tends to fix itself, given the right environment/conditions. what would happen if you stopped taking pills? (not that i would advise doing that)
I have a genetic condition that means my lungs scar when I get chest infections. The scars also increase the likelihood of infections, and over time, the lung can sag at these points and become pockets of infection that need to be removed surgically. You can end up losing half a lung. I already had mild scarring through both lungs when I was diagnosed.

I have asthma, and am highly atopic (snotty). These things also put me at risk. Before my boss at work got new scanned, I was having about 6 chest infections a year.

Since I've been treated aggressively, I've had one chest infection. That's in over two years. My lung function is really good (about 33% better than it should be for someone my age / height). The side effects and the burden of managing my treatment is a pain, but my uncle died of emphysema, and the last 10+ years of his life looked awful. I want to avoid that.

My current consultant seems to throw lots of drugs at me. However, he's kept my peak flow up, and I'm not having lung problems. Relative to his normal clients (old men who can barely walk across the room), I fear he wonders why I bug him about side effects so much.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #418 on: 08 January, 2017, 06:56:51 pm »
i see, hmm. if all the pills are taken to prevent chest infection, how would you know when you no longer need to take the meds? anyway it's off-topic and i wish you the best health for the future! 

Re: Base training
« Reply #419 on: 08 January, 2017, 09:55:40 pm »
Because I still have the genetic condition (it won't go away), and various markers of the condition are present, and improved on treatment.

I'm familiar with iatrogenic disease, and much as I think a healthy lifestyle is the best medicine for most things, the condition I have (bronciectasis) isn't something to mess about with or be relaxed about. I am really lucky to have been caught so early. I know people with the condition who are awaiting lung transplant.

Re: Base training
« Reply #420 on: 11 January, 2017, 08:38:49 pm »
Rubbish couple of days. Zwift failed me on Sunday so I did hill repeats outside which was fun. Then Monday work put paid to exercise, Tuesday my heart was not in it and this morning I was 20down on TSS compared to last time doing same session.

Fortunately able to leave office at 20:00 tonight so straight to bed.   

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #421 on: 11 January, 2017, 09:07:43 pm »
Been feeling under the weather this week. As for zwift, sounds like they are having problems!

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #422 on: 12 January, 2017, 10:28:12 am »
Think I've got a cold.  >:(

rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #423 on: 12 January, 2017, 10:50:16 am »
Think my cold has finally gone.   Completed Tuesday's turbo session properly for the first time in a while, but now adapting for the rest of the week.

Long steady ride planned in the cold for Saturday - should be about 120miles all in.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #424 on: 12 January, 2017, 11:50:03 am »
I've only trained once - Tuesday water rowing session - since the weekend. I tried to get out of that but ended up still going due to lack of numbers.

I'm entered into a 200k a week on Saturday so hopefully will be sufficiently back to normal by then.