Author Topic: Base training  (Read 250336 times)

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #675 on: 14 November, 2017, 08:37:27 pm »
Back in. Enforced >24h without food Sunday => Monday led to heavy legs. Decided test would be a waste of time so did this. https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/6850485-abbot

Turned it down by 15% as was a bit tough. Given the tired legs it’s probably too early to say I need to drop FTP further. HR got to 193 so still proving that formula is fairly useless.

Re: Base training
« Reply #676 on: 14 November, 2017, 10:38:56 pm »
Had a poor TR 20 min FTP attempt tonight. Lower than I manage outside when not really trying. Bit weary, but wondering if I need some cooling too.

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #677 on: 15 November, 2017, 05:04:04 am »
Almost 6 weeks since my spill and orthopaedic consultant at yesterday's fracture clinic suggested that I could get back on the turbo as soon as my shoulder coped with it. I won't be back on the road for another 6 months though because it wouldn't cope another impact until then.

My new turbo was delivered yesterday,  an Elite Direto smart trainer, which will get set up inside. Mrs PC won't let me train in the garage at the moment as she needs to hear if I fall off! My plan now, after 6 weeks of detraining will be 4 weeks of gentle spinning the legs round and calorie counting to lose 4 kg, then 3 weeks of endurance work (4hr/day) followed by starting the interval training when I go back to work in January.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #678 on: 15 November, 2017, 03:53:05 pm »
Had a poor TR 20 min FTP attempt tonight. Lower than I manage outside when not really trying. Bit weary, but wondering if I need some cooling too.

Cooling is pretty much essential indoors. Your performance will suffer as the body spends more energy removing waste heat and also limits your work rate in order to avoid dangerous overheating.

I have an 18" floor fan which provides a good airflow, with 3 speed settings.

Re: Base training
« Reply #679 on: 15 November, 2017, 07:07:29 pm »
Had a poor TR 20 min FTP attempt tonight. Lower than I manage outside when not really trying. Bit weary, but wondering if I need some cooling too.

Cooling is pretty much essential indoors. Your performance will suffer as the body spends more energy removing waste heat and also limits your work rate in order to avoid dangerous overheating.

I have an 18" floor fan which provides a good airflow, with 3 speed settings.
I definitely find fan cooling is necessary for the harder efforts, even if the ambient temperature is close to 0. I got this one - it's really effective, though reasonably loud. https://www.screwfix.com/p/ft45-14ap-18-high-velocity-floor-fan-220-240v/6335t Given the cost of the rest of the indoor training kit I think it's pretty good value!
Do you change the speeds during the ride? Mine has 3 speeds, but the dial is on the back of the fan, so I'd have to get off the bike to change it.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #680 on: 15 November, 2017, 07:23:54 pm »
i use the same (or very similar) fan on the max setting with the windows open; i train indoors so the ambient temperature is never below 20deg. i wouldn't mind another fan cooling my back from above/behind.

Re: Base training
« Reply #681 on: 15 November, 2017, 11:10:17 pm »
Anyone had a romp with Tacx new software beta  yet? first impression of the UI is that it maintains the Tacx tradition of utter and complete shite. right from the off, you need a multi word password to register, of about 14 characters! Mine is something like Fuckthissteamingpileofshite

No indication of the projected costs, no easy to find howto, not much really. The GPS workout sounds as if it might be interesting, but knowing Tack implementation, probably not. apparently the maximum grade of the Tourmalet is.... 56%. Some hill

Can't even see how it links to trainer, but maybe it just does.

https://cloud.tacx.com is where it is if you fancy

Re: Base training
« Reply #682 on: 16 November, 2017, 07:08:01 am »
Thanks for the advice on cooling. Base training is postponed until after a trip to Srewfix at the weekend to buy a fan and a long piece of wire.

Mike

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #683 on: 17 November, 2017, 10:29:57 pm »
Did Ansel Adams tonight. IF=0.98 for an hour. Felt ok. Maybe my threshold is even set slightly low. Will test soon.

Re: Base training
« Reply #684 on: 18 November, 2017, 08:48:57 am »
Did Ansel Adams tonight. IF=0.98 for an hour. Felt ok. Maybe my threshold is even set slightly low. Will test soon.
That looks brutal. If that's easy, maybe your FTP is low...

Chris S

Re: Base training
« Reply #685 on: 18 November, 2017, 11:44:07 am »
First lot of over-unders in this cycle.

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/6879748-tunemah

As you can see, I made a valiant attempt to get started on interval-3 but to no avail - my legs weren't having it!

Re: Base training
« Reply #686 on: 18 November, 2017, 12:08:04 pm »
Interested in which Trainer Road plans people are following?

Before kicking off when I get my fan in place, I'm trying to decide between 5 days and 3 days. If you're go for 5 I'll undoibtedly replace some sessions with outdoor rides or runs, but if 3 then I'm likely to supplement rather than replace.

Does the experienced audience have a view?

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #687 on: 18 November, 2017, 12:50:12 pm »
Did Ansel Adams tonight. IF=0.98 for an hour. Felt ok. Maybe my threshold is even set slightly low. Will test soon.
That looks brutal. If that's easy, maybe your FTP is low...

Solomons is probably worse; though I don't think easy's the word. I have tended to find workouts of the VO2max type ok, whereas trying to sit near threshold for longer intervals is more challenging. What that suggests is I have decent aerobic capacity but lacked muscular endurance which comes from the threshold and sweet spot work. I've completed Ansel Adams before with my FTP at 280W on the Kickr.

I'm going to pick a couple of longer but easier ones for the weekend. Probably Antelope - 1 or -2 and Junneau - 1 or -2. Then rest on Monday and 2x8m test on Tuesday then start a plan.


Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #688 on: 18 November, 2017, 01:35:04 pm »
Interested in which Trainer Road plans people are following?

Before kicking off when I get my fan in place, I'm trying to decide between 5 days and 3 days. If you're go for 5 I'll undoibtedly replace some sessions with outdoor rides or runs, but if 3 then I'm likely to supplement rather than replace.

Does the experienced audience have a view?

I create my own plan, using mostly my own workouts created using the excellent workout creator.

Re: Base training
« Reply #689 on: 18 November, 2017, 01:43:54 pm »
Interested in which Trainer Road plans people are following?

Before kicking off when I get my fan in place, I'm trying to decide between 5 days and 3 days. If you're go for 5 I'll undoibtedly replace some sessions with outdoor rides or runs, but if 3 then I'm likely to supplement rather than replace.

Does the experienced audience have a view?
I didn't have a lot of miles in my legs to work from, so I wanted to stay "low volume". That's what the podcast seems to recommend, unless you know that you can handle a lot of training stress. Starting with the base seemed logical, so Sweet Spot Base low volume was what I chose.
I've done the first one, and I definitely boosted my FTP.  I'm now 2 weeks into the second one and it's a lot harder, but in a good way. The theory is to do the sustained power build and then see how I go on the 40k TT plan.
Cheers
Duncan

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #690 on: 19 November, 2017, 02:28:57 am »
Sweet spot high volume is a bit of a brute. So if not already used to a high training load starting with low or mid volume I and then stepping up to mid or high II after 6 weeks makes sense.

I did Geiger today which is three x 12m rolling sweet spot intervals. This felt harder than Ansel Adams and would tend to confirm my theory about a lack of muscular endurance.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #691 on: 19 November, 2017, 02:30:46 am »
First lot of over-unders in this cycle.

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/6879748-tunemah

As you can see, I made a valiant attempt to get started on interval-3 but to no avail - my legs weren't having it!

Been there. Over unders are one of the toughest forms of workout but they do seem to be effective at raising FTP.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #692 on: 20 November, 2017, 12:08:16 pm »
So I gave myself a proper kicking over the weekend, culminating on Sunday with Solomons which is always a brute. Considering I'd done Ansel Adams on Friday, Geiger on Saturday, this was quite hard work though I hung in there and completed all the intervals.

I now need a rest day or two. Absolutely wiped out today.

Re: Base training
« Reply #693 on: 20 November, 2017, 12:39:09 pm »
First lot of over-unders in this cycle.

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/6879748-tunemah

As you can see, I made a valiant attempt to get started on interval-3 but to no avail - my legs weren't having it!

Been there. Over unders are one of the toughest forms of workout but they do seem to be effective at raising FTP.
I quite like the over-unders (relatively speaking). It's the VO2 max stuff I find hardest. My upcoming week looks like it consists entirely of one or the other:
2017-11-20_12-30-49 by duncancmartin, on Flickr

Your last 3 days sounds like hell!

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #694 on: 20 November, 2017, 02:08:17 pm »
Solomons is one I discovered quite early on and it’s my favourite workout to get a heap of TSS in after missing some training. I’ve yet to be brave enough to try its big brother, Irvine, which adds more intensity and extends the tempo block in the middle at the expense of shorter recoveries in the final block of 2m intervals.

For you workouts this week: mills is ok as the decline in intensity in the second half of the intervals makes them a big more forgiving. In a 2m vo2max interval it tends to be the first 30s are fine then subsequent 30s are progressively harder with the final 30s being challenging.

Jepson is an interesting one. Those 5s bursts are fine - it’s the next 30s that hurt!

Palisade is ok. The ones that I’ve found really tough are Prater and Leconte. They really hurt and will find out a too high FTP setting.

Re: Base training
« Reply #695 on: 21 November, 2017, 08:59:14 am »
Mills was hard, especially spinning at 100. I might have been able to hang on at 90rpm, but at 100 I had to turn the intensity down a couple of %.
I've done Palisade before and it was OK. Jepson looks interesting - I did Clark last week which was OK - I guess Jepson is going to be harder.
I'm on a dumb trainer with virtual power, so getting the gear ratios right is another complication.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #696 on: 21 November, 2017, 09:15:39 pm »
So I decided not to test tonight as still carrying a bit of fatigue from the weekend and I don't think I'd learn anything. My FTP is set in the right ball-park.

Instead, I did Ansel Adams again. The fatigue showed and my average HR was 2bpm higher.

I'm starting on sweet spot base mid volume. I chose this because I have got to fit in weights and core work for rowing, and once I my wrist is healed, actually rowing, and the high volume plan leaves little room for other stuff.

jiberjaber

  • ... Fancy Pants \o/ ...
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Re: Base training
« Reply #697 on: 21 November, 2017, 09:37:55 pm »
I'm experimenting with Xert again I quite like how it is supposed to extract your FTP from the data without tests but I'm less happy about the lack of explanation of the concepts and methods. 

I'm playing with their fitness planner and also some of their workouts.. but I'm on the fence still.  It doesn't combine all activities as easily as say Training Peaks (so walks and none power based rides all get some form of TSS associated with them on TP).  I'm also a bit confused with how some of the bits work... I managed to exhaust MPA (sort of like how much rechargeable energy you have in the tank) at the weekend on the ride, clearly shown on my Garmin in their app but the data when loaded up does not show the same event as experienced on the road... I just can't get a straight answer out of the user base (they seem to be the only people providing support)....

My Trainer Road comes up for renewal in a couple of weeks.  It worked for my training for LEL so is a known quantity - but there is something about Xert which isn't letting me give up yet.... plus the gamification (medals for break throughs etc) make a ride interesting  :facepalm:

Hmmmm...
Regards,

Joergen

Re: Base training
« Reply #698 on: 24 November, 2017, 12:58:22 pm »
Jepson this morning sucked so badly.  I seem to suffer when it's cold (maybe I should leave my fan off for the warmup and first set), and Fish and Chips last night  didn't help. What was supposed to be a threshold workout was much more of a sweetspot one. :(

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #699 on: 24 November, 2017, 01:35:25 pm »
I turn the fan off after the warm-up, usually.