Yet Another 'WTF is Wrong with the Country?' Thread

[Jezza]

Maybe better to chill out for a few days and postpone that non-essential shopping trip or journey to do work that's likely to foul up the environment some more.

That's another point: how many of us live within walking distance of the shop at which we buy most of our food?

Me.

Me as well.

[Polar Bear]

This government*? Not prepared for something? I'm amazed that people are still shocked by this!

That's another point: how many of us live within walking distance of the shop at which we buy most of our food?

How do the shops get food delivered?

*/a branch of the government

Gonzo, how about, the people are not prepared for such an event?  It's all down to personal attitude. 

AIUI most major roads are open.  When I walked through town on Friday the lorries were there as usual delivering.   My BiL works for one of the big haulage companies delivering for many of the supermarket chains nationwide.   He says that with very very few exceptions they are delivering as usual.     The groceries are getting through.   

I made my usual trip by train.  It was running just fine.   Never mind that the station car park was virtually empty, as was the train.   Millions couldn't drive so just stayed at home.   One of my 'colleagues' who lives near me couldn't make it.   He couldn't get his car out.   He could have walked to the station like I did - fifteen minutes max.   Nah. 

The real issue is that people have made themselves completely dependent upon their cars.   

[Jezza]

It's not about the snow. Whinging poms, more like. 

         Marina Hyde: Let it snow on our nation of the permanently outraged |
            Comment is free |
            The Guardian
   

[iakobski]

Maybe better to chill out for a few days and postpone that non-essential shopping trip or journey to do work that's likely to foul up the environment some more.

That's another point: how many of us live within walking distance of the shop at which we buy most of our food?

Me.

Me as well.

Me too, but the promble was, as soon as it started snowing loads of people went in and bought ALL the bread and milk, just in case...

[Bledlow]

I did a lot of growing up next to the pit head of the winsford salt mine. My grandma lives in the village of Moulton which the mine is under. If the government had kept the river weaver navigable then salt could be moved north and south on a regular basis. We should have never let the cargo carrying water ways decline. We should go back to using them as soon as we can.

Can't go south from the Weaver, except on the Trent & Mersey canal, & a canal with 72' by 7' manually-operated locks is not an economical means of freight transport. Labour costs are too high.

If, back in the mid-19th century, there had been less of a mania for buying railway shares, so that railway companies had not been so flush with money from share offerings that they hadn't seen the opportunity to buy up suddenly cheap canal companies left right & centre, & neglect their canals, then the canal network might have been modernised enough to remain competitive, & therefore salt could have been shipped in bulk from Cheshire by canal. But sadly, it wasn't, so it can't be.

Or if, back in the early 1960s, Dr. Beeching hadn't so ruthlessly pruned the railways, we might still have railways with the sort of freight capacity to ship salt around the country quickly & cheaply, when wanted. But again . . . .

[David Martin]

Or if, back in the early 1960s, Dr. Beeching hadn't so ruthlessly pruned the railways, we might still have railways with the sort of freight capacity to ship salt around the country quickly & cheaply, when wanted. But again . . . .

Hmm.. the rose tinted view of industrial history. Railway companies deliberately sought to put the canals out of business. For a period of time the canals were owned by the railways (claverton pumping station has many GWR marked items). They were essentially derelict before Beeching. A modern canal needs to be able to deliver loads in less than twice the time of a road to be economically competitive. And then there is the problem of infrastructure to support transhipment of loads. Notwithstanding the physical problems of canals in winter - ie they freeze.

Beechings cuts were severe, probably over severe. My personal view is that he should not have closed the through lines that were marginal (such as the Strathmore line which gives an alternative route to Aberdeen from the west) but many (especially locally) of the minor branch lines were closing anyway or had already closed at the time he was publishing his report.  Freight on rail was killed off by the development of motor vehicles capable of carrying large amounts of freight, and ably assisted by the then minister of transport being a shareholder or dierctor of a motorway building company.

[gordon taylor]

In my haulage days, (long, long ago) delivering salt was the worst paying load in the whole of the UK. We'd send our roadstone trucks on a salt run only if we were absolutely desperate for work. No sensible haulier would touch the stuff.

IMHO, this salt shortage is just media blow 'cos they are trained to seek a crisis where there is none. What next? "Supermarkets only have one day of bread supplies in stock." It's bollox.

[RogerT]

In my haulage days, (long, long ago) delivering salt was the worst paying load in the whole of the UK. We'd send our roadstone trucks on a salt run only if we were absolutely desperate for work. No sensible haulier would touch the stuff.

IMHO, this salt shortage is just media blow 'cos they are trained to seek a crisis where there is none. What next? "Supermarkets only have one day of bread supplies in stock." It's bollox.

Actually its not Bollox, all the UK supermarkets have virtually zero storage on site, what you see in the Aisles is what you get.  Depending on the product line, several days worth are kept at the regional dstribution centres  ( where my company delivers to )

A prolonged true interuption to the main road system would lead to shortages VERY quickly.

However, all our vehicles, with some minor exeptions, have been getting through, so the chance of the country running out of sugar are slight. 

Quote of the day on friday was from one of the Supermarket buyers.." why where you an hour late delivering to our XXXX RDC ? )

My reply.."probaly the same reason that you did not even make in to work".  Communication ceased abruptly at that point.

[drossall]

The BBC News mentioned in passing the blindingly obvious point that large stockpiles of salt, held on a just-in-case basis, tend to wash away when it rains.

Unless you keep them under cover presumably, and that would add to the cost that none of us are prepared to pay.

[Jaded]

That's what WW2 hangers are for, init.

[rogerzilla]

Swindon BC have a big shed somewhere for their salt.  Apparently some of the stuff at the back had been there for 15 years...until Friday.

[Zoidburg]

Or if, back in the early 1960s, Dr. Beeching hadn't so ruthlessly pruned the railways, we might still have railways with the sort of freight capacity to ship salt around the country quickly & cheaply, when wanted. But again . . . .

 A modern canal needs to be able to deliver loads in less than twice the time of a road to be economically competitive.

Pure profit is not the idea and I do not see that point as applying to all goods to be honest. If its something non perishable that people want/need all the time then moving it by canal is not a logistical restriction IMHO.

Plus - your rationale is from the days when we were quite happy to keep killing the planet.

Regulation of the kind of goods that can be moved road is needed.

Fresh food stuffs - fair enough.

Cheap sportsware for disount warehouses...errrr not so important methinks.

Going back to the canals is going to happen, it has to happen.

[David Martin]

Going back to the canals is going to happen, it has to happen.

It is happening, but canals make far more money out of leisure boats (which clog them up for the commercial traffic.)

..d

[TheLurker]

<snip>
My point is this. We have had snow and ice for a week now. Couldn't someone from the Highways/local councils have maybe noticed that stocks were low?
<snip>

They did, at least in Glos.  The reason they're now using 'table' salt mixed with the remaining grit is that the delivery of rock salt / grit that was expected on Tuesday of last week wasn't delivered.

[Mr Larrington]

Going back to the canals is going to happen, it has to happen.

It is happening, but canals make far more money out of leisure boats (which clog them up for the commercial traffic.)

I wasn't aware of canals making money at all, hence the hue and cry about the shortfall between what BW needs to maintain the waterways and what it actually receives after David Militwonk has had to pay GBFO fines to the EU because DEFRA make a total cock of paying farmers to rear no pigs.

[Regulator]

Going back to the canals is going to happen, it has to happen.

It is happening, but canals make far more money out of leisure boats (which clog them up for the commercial traffic.)

I wasn't aware of canals making money at all, hence the hue and cry about the shortfall between what BW needs to maintain the waterways and what it actually receives after David Militwonk has had to pay GBFO fines to the EU because DEFRA make a total cock of paying farmers to rear no pigs.

You are both right.  BW has a significant income from leisure cruising but it has been swallowed up but having its capital funding cut thanks to Beckett and Millitwat.

[David Martin]

Going back to the canals is going to happen, it has to happen.

It is happening, but canals make far more money out of leisure boats (which clog them up for the commercial traffic.)

I wasn't aware of canals making money at all, hence the hue and cry about the shortfall between what BW needs to maintain the waterways and what it actually receives after David Militwonk has had to pay GBFO fines to the EU because DEFRA make a total cock of paying farmers to rear no pigs.

BW have a huge infrastructure backlog which is taking a lot of the current investment. I think (though am not sure) that steady state maintenance is self funding from user charges. It is major things like repiling canal banks that requires the major investment.

The Kennet and Avon is massively improved following the development works. Just a few more locks to renovate and it should be fine for another 40 years. Parts are fantastic, especially the concrete canal base along what used to be a very poor section from Dundas to Bath. It now has more traffic than it ever had when it was a 'commercial' canal.

..d

[Mr Larrington]

Though much of the K&A is still classed as a remainder waterway, which means that BW only have a limited obligation to look after it.  Much of the funding comes from bodies like the Kennet & Avon Canal Trust and local authoritahs.

[David Martin]

Though much of the K&A is still classed as a remainder waterway, which means that BW only have a limited obligation to look after it.  Much of the funding comes from bodies like the Kennet & Avon Canal Trust and local authoritahs.

As it has only been reliably usable for the last 10 years, that is hardly surprising.. Canals are big for local tourism and local councils are waking up to that.

..d

[border-rider]

This government*? Not prepared for something? I'm amazed that people are still shocked by this!

*/a branch of the government

Erm, councils are not a branch of national Govt.  Many of them are even run by different parties

More seriously: I'm sorry to defuse the rightwing/libertarian attacks on public service, but I've had the chance to talk to someone about this tonight.  The reason for the lack of salt is that the (private) contractors who supply salt to councils have defaulted on their contracts to supply salt.  Now, I suspect there's a very good reason for that and I wouldn't attack them for it. But then they're not public employees so that's just not fashionable is it ?