Author Topic: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?  (Read 2992 times)

Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« on: 15 August, 2020, 01:35:41 pm »
New video from GCN, speedmachine and velomobile going up a steep hill up north.

Advice given to the presenter/newbie rider - "Look where you want to go and smile"  :)

Would be nice if they'd done more with someone who could handle the machines though.

https://youtu.be/lD53YiygVhA

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #1 on: 15 August, 2020, 02:19:25 pm »
Their previous visit to the BHPC is here (contains technical inaccuracies and lots of Barney shouting "Smile!"):
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/MIsa0L5UNgs&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/MIsa0L5UNgs&rel=1</a>
https://youtu.be/MIsa0L5UNgs

TBH, the "newbie finds recumbent difficult to ride" trope gets old very quickly.  You wouldn't expect someone who learned to ride an upright half an hour ago to attempt any serious comparison of the capabilities of different flavours of them.  If they're going to make a regular thing of recumbent features, they should recruit someone who actually knows what they're doing (or at least stick to interviewing and filming the people who do).

(I'm only slightly bitter that while I could ride up that hill on a lowracer without excessive wobbling, it would be at a fraction of the speed he managed it.)

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #2 on: 15 August, 2020, 04:42:55 pm »
I've no idea how wobbly I looked going up 14%+, I was too busy trying not to fall off or let my head explode
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #3 on: 15 August, 2020, 05:18:38 pm »
Raptobike, not speedmachine.  So additional issue of fwd.
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #4 on: 15 August, 2020, 05:22:01 pm »
Mines a Cruzbike, same issue
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #5 on: 15 August, 2020, 05:27:14 pm »
Raptobike and Speedmachine (at the end)  :).  I note that the Speedmachine owner didn't let the presenter ride it - presumably much too nice to be dropped repeatedly.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #6 on: 15 August, 2020, 05:53:39 pm »
Raptobike and Speedmachine (at the end)  :).  I note that the Speedmachine owner didn't let the presenter ride it - presumably much too nice to be dropped repeatedly.

I expect so.  One of the advantages of tiller steering is that the delicate bits tend not to get bashed in a low-speed fall.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #7 on: 15 August, 2020, 06:03:54 pm »
[...] lots of Barney shouting "Smile!"):

Barney only has one volume setting: 11
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #8 on: 15 August, 2020, 06:08:25 pm »
I've no idea how wobbly I looked going up 14%+, I was too busy trying not to fall off or let my head explode

Thought Cruzbike were good for uphill and would have expected 14% not to be an issue.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #9 on: 15 August, 2020, 06:11:47 pm »
[...] lots of Barney shouting "Smile!"):

Barney only has one volume setting: 11

I distinctly recall an alternative setting of who-gave-Barney-a-megaphone being used at the Worlds a couple of years ago.

LMT

Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #10 on: 15 August, 2020, 07:53:08 pm »
I've no idea how wobbly I looked going up 14%+, I was too busy trying not to fall off or let my head explode

Thought Cruzbike were good for uphill and would have expected 14% not to be an issue.

Issues with traction, especially in the wet. Anything in double digits and the potential is there for wheel slippage.


quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #11 on: 15 August, 2020, 09:39:34 pm »


So. I watched the video in question last night. Declaration: I ride an upwrong, I've yet to ride a recumbent.

Some thoughts:

- Would his life have been a lot easier had he not had stupid clippy shoes? It's not like he was pulling on the pedals, and it seems a lot of his slow speed issues were with clipping in, and unclipping.

- He taped his mic transmitter to the top of the Alpha 7 because of the carbon fibre apparently blocking the signal. Is this really the case? does that mean if you're phone is in your pocket inside a carbon fibre bike like the alpha 7, you don't get any signal? Any issues with GPSr device positioning?

- Wish they'd shown more footage of descending...

- The sound from within the alpha 7 sounded very rattly. Like someone had dropped a box of spanners in the bottom. Is that the normal sound that a velo makes? Are they really noisy?

As with much of what GCN makes, nice idea, poorly implemented...

J

--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #12 on: 15 August, 2020, 10:00:20 pm »
Velomobiles are always noisy. Basically the rider is pedalling a big drum.

Carbon is an inefficient Faraday cage and most of them mount their GPS close to the rim of the cockpit or on the tiller.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #13 on: 15 August, 2020, 10:20:02 pm »
I've no idea how wobbly I looked going up 14%+, I was too busy trying not to fall off or let my head explode

Thought Cruzbike were good for uphill and would have expected 14% not to be an issue.

Touring luggage as well. As LMT notes, its more a case of starting. If I managed to keep going it was OK, lose rhythm or hit a damp patch and start getting front wheelslip and all bets are off. Uphill starts can be tricky at much lower gradients with narrow tyres as the CB front end is lightly loaded.

As with pretty much any velocipede, it becomes a question of gearing and low speed stability
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

LMT

Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #14 on: 15 August, 2020, 10:26:41 pm »
A FWD fixed bb, a full sus mid racer and a velo. Not the best for climbing a short sharp hill.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #15 on: 15 August, 2020, 10:50:24 pm »
- Would his life have been a lot easier had he not had stupid clippy shoes? It's not like he was pulling on the pedals, and it seems a lot of his slow speed issues were with clipping in, and unclipping.

Sort of: Once you know what you're doing, foot retention is much more useful on a recumbent than on an upright, as otherwise you're fighting gravity to keep your feet on the pedals.

But if you don't know what you're doing, it's just another thing to worry about as when you try to start off (which is the most difficult thing on a bike like that, particularly uphill), and it's potentially stopping you from getting a foot down quickly when you lose balance.  To be fair, the latter effect is minimal: When I learned to ride a recumbent, I was used to clipless pedals, and only failed to unclip on the very first crash (I suspect because I had yet to recognise that type of wobble as a stall).

Another factor is that roadie shoes are particularly rubbish at gripping on, well, anything that isn't pedals, especially when your feet are nowhere near your centre of mass and the surface is slippery.  Putting a foot down and having it fail to grip the ground is a hazard, but mostly one of embarrassment, as a slow-motion fall from a lowracer is unlikely to damage anything.  Tall people can reach the ground with their hands when stationary, which appears to be useful.  I can't do it.

But ultimately, a Raptobike is very much being dropped in at the deep end.  Sensible people get the general idea on a more relaxed touring-geometry machine before progressing to twitchy racing bikes with extremely reclined seat angles.  That way you're just learning the bike, rather than how to ride one.


Quote
- He taped his mic transmitter to the top of the Alpha 7 because of the carbon fibre apparently blocking the signal. Is this really the case? does that mean if you're phone is in your pocket inside a carbon fibre bike like the alpha 7, you don't get any signal? Any issues with GPSr device positioning?

I know our RFID timing tags don't work properly if stuck to carbon fibre.  I expect phone and GPS signals manage to find their way through the openings, mostly.

I doubt the radio mic signal was blocked completely, just enough to make the recording unusable.


Quote
- The sound from within the alpha 7 sounded very rattly. Like someone had dropped a box of spanners in the bottom. Is that the normal sound that a velo makes? Are they really noisy?

In my limited experience, yes: The body acts as a sounding board for all the usual trike vibrations.  Same applies to rigid tailboxes and the like, though at least then your head isn't inside them.

Although it's always worse when you listen to a mono recording of noisy surroundings from a not-particularly-directional microphone than it is when you listen directly through a binaural pair of human ears.  The Cocktail Party Effect applies.

On the other hand, if your head is sheltered from the airflow, you get less wind noise in your ears directly.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #16 on: 15 August, 2020, 10:51:20 pm »
A FWD fixed bb, a full sus mid racer and a velo. Not the best for climbing a short sharp hill.

AUIU that was mostly determined by who Barney could get to go to Huddersfield.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #17 on: 15 August, 2020, 11:20:27 pm »
The gearing didn't seem exactly hill friendly. But it was all quite funny. I half expected one of the Top Gear crew to put in an appearance.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #18 on: 15 August, 2020, 11:29:40 pm »
David L'Hostis as The Stig...   ;D

StuAff

  • Folding not boring
Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #19 on: 16 August, 2020, 03:18:05 pm »
Hank might have had an easier time of it on the Rapto if he'd got onto the small ring…

Auntie Helen

  • 6 Wheels in Germany
Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #20 on: 23 August, 2020, 08:54:47 am »


So. I watched the video in question last night. Declaration: I ride an upwrong, I've yet to ride a recumbent.

Some thoughts:

- Would his life have been a lot easier had he not had stupid clippy shoes? It's not like he was pulling on the pedals, and it seems a lot of his slow speed issues were with clipping in, and unclipping.

- He taped his mic transmitter to the top of the Alpha 7 because of the carbon fibre apparently blocking the signal. Is this really the case? does that mean if you're phone is in your pocket inside a carbon fibre bike like the alpha 7, you don't get any signal? Any issues with GPSr device positioning?

- Wish they'd shown more footage of descending...

- The sound from within the alpha 7 sounded very rattly. Like someone had dropped a box of spanners in the bottom. Is that the normal sound that a velo makes? Are they really noisy?

As with much of what GCN makes, nice idea, poorly implemented...

J
As they say, full carbon can give issues for some GPS devices and phones. I am lucky in that my carbon Milan doesn’t seem to cause a problem, perhaps as the entrance hatch is not carbon but GFK.

Click shoes are vital as your feet are so much higher that you have to use energy keeping them on the pedals without. It’s tiring riding without SPDs, plus potentially a bit dangerous.

It’s noisy inside velomobiles but actually the wind noise is the most significant factor. On some long rides in summer (no buff over my ears) I think I have possibly damaged my hearing for a couple Of days.

You need to come to Germany and try my Milan, QG. Velomobiles are such fun!
My blog on cycling in Germany and eating German cake – http://www.auntiehelen.co.uk


quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #21 on: 23 August, 2020, 11:19:02 am »
As they say, full carbon can give issues for some GPS devices and phones. I am lucky in that my carbon Milan doesn’t seem to cause a problem, perhaps as the entrance hatch is not carbon but GFK.

Click shoes are vital as your feet are so much higher that you have to use energy keeping them on the pedals without. It’s tiring riding without SPDs, plus potentially a bit dangerous.

Do you use road or mtb clipless?

Quote

It’s noisy inside velomobiles but actually the wind noise is the most significant factor. On some long rides in summer (no buff over my ears) I think I have possibly damaged my hearing for a couple Of days.

Does this mean that if you had headphones on it would be very hard to hear what you're listening to? A friend with a Quattro in Enschede wear's ear plugs when riding his velo. Which makes me wonder, in France you're not allowed to wear headphones. But what about ear plugs?

Quote
You need to come to Germany and try my Milan, QG. Velomobiles are such fun!

I really do. We should compare diaries for mid September!

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #22 on: 23 August, 2020, 11:50:44 am »
I use MTB clipless for the double sidedness, nos so important onna trike, but on a 2-wheeler, getting clipped in without thinking about is, adn quickly is of the essence. SPD-Roads hang at the wrog angle for me
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #23 on: 23 August, 2020, 06:23:47 pm »
MTB clipless here as well.

As for sound. On my recumbent the seat bag is directly behind my head. So I put my iPod with a small 3.5mm (jack plug) speaker plugged in, in the seat bag.  The mini speaker lasts 8 hours between charges. More than loud enough to hear riding overnight. I don’t listen to music during the day.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Recumbent Bike Vs Killer Climb - Will It Climb?
« Reply #24 on: 23 August, 2020, 06:57:56 pm »
I've historically used double-sided mountain bike SPD for everything, but I own a set of roadie shoes, and currently have Look pedals on the Baron.  Not that it's been ridden since the end of the 2019 racing season.  I remain unconvinced by the merits of a cleat system you can't walk in, but the shoes are stiff and well-ventilated without leaving toes vulnerable to injury the way sandals do, which makes them a win for racing.

I'm currently experimenting with Time ATAC on the Streetmachine (which I've been riding almost exclusively since the lockdown, as it's least likely to strand me somewhere with a crash or mechanical), as I hear that they don't develop an irritating click as they wear the way SPDs do.  If that's a long-term success, I might migrate the SPDs to ATACs as they wear out.

As previously mentioned, pretty much any foot-retention system (including really faffy things like toe-straps) works well when you've got three or more wheels, as there's no need to get in or out of them in a hurry.  Foot retention is a safety benefit on tadpole trikes, and probably some velomobiles, where there's a non-zero risk of injuring your foot/ankle if it slips off a pedal but catches on the ground.

My anecdotal experience suggests that staying attached to the pedals may reduce injury in recumbent bicycle crashes, but my unclip reaction is too strong to override, unless I hit the deck *fast*.