Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Rides and Touring => Topic started by: hatler on 23 June, 2021, 09:34:43 pm
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Evening all.
Is the Crab & Winkle Way well signposted out of Whitstable ?
Also, what's the surface like ? OK if ridden carefully on 23s ?
Many thanks.
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It's reasonably findable from the London-bound side of the railway station, especially if you've had the foresight to study a map. Finding the railway station left as an exercise for the reader.
It's been years, so I'll defer to someone with more recent knowledge of the surface, but it was a mixture of tarmac and reasonable hardpack that's no drama on 40mm Marathons. I expect some of the wooded bit gets sketchy if it's wet and/or in chutney season. I recall at least one Silly Sustrans Gate, where a Sustrans volunteer was collecting surveys from path users. Hopefully they're not still there.
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Evening all.
Is the Crab & Winkle Way well signposted out of Whitstable ?
Also, what's the surface like ? OK if ridden carefully on 23s ?
Many thanks.
Assuming it hasn't degraded too much in the last 5 years. It's as Kim describes. Just be careful of the pot holes at the bottom of the hill just before the uni. I really doubt they've been fixed...
I would do it on 23mm tyres if it was just a one off section of a longer route. But I'd I was doing it regularly. I'd go for something wider...
J
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There's a newsagents - The Chocolate Box - (where you can get a cup of tea if you are so inclined) at the back of the station - you need to go up the road that's to the right of it (Seymour Avenue) and then take your first left (All Saints Close)and then a little path off to your left.
I've done it on the fixer on 23s. nearly came to a grinding halt on one of the inclines.
Surface was generally fine.
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Thank you all !! Really appreciated. Exactly what I was after.
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Saturday morning planning? Where does the train from Canterbury get you?
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Saturday morning planning? Where does the train from Canterbury get you?
Depends which station you go from - Canterbury East or Canterbury West?
London Victoria from either or St. Pancras from west.
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Indeed. Saturday morning planning.
I'm heading for the in-laws in Benenden, and the train from Whitstable to Staplehurst takes about two and a half hours, but from Canterbury is only about 40 minutes.
I'm not absolutely ruling out riding all the way there, but after a night ride and not having been regularly commuting for a while, I'm presuming that by the time I get to Whitstable I'm going to be pooped.
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Two years ago I did a post FnRttC Whitstable to Canterbury dash up the C&W, due to no fast trains from Whitstable (storm). The potholes quixoticgeek mentions had not been fixed then.
There are a couple of quite steep bits and a couple of blind bends to look out for. But it is a generally nice quietish route - there's one bit just before a church (and just after some greenhouses) that suddenly comes up to a road junction.
I may do it again on Saturday morning if feeling spritely :)
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The last place on that ride had been bagged by me! See you at breakfast.
Getting to it can be tricky, so i suggest printing out a map of some kind. Once on, it is easy to follow, but the final bit can be complicated. I use a GPX track, a print of a Google map is probably enough.
If you want i can print a section of ordnance survey map for you, and hand it over during the ride. Or you could follow me.
The C&W Way to Canterbury is about 50 minutes, and quicker than trains that involve changes at Strood, Paddock Wood etc. A decent brekkie and a bit of a rest was all i needed before popping to Canterbury, but i was thinner and stronger in those days. I have 28mm tyres and it's not been a problem, but that was some years ago. And once on the outskirts of Canterbury it's downhill all the way.
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Having had a look at the National Rail website and train times to my manor, I'll stick with Whizzybell. I am Quite Excited about this ride.
Mmmmmartin, are you team blue or team red?
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I don't know the Crab and Winkle way, but I've ridden from Canterbury to Whitstable on the B road that goes through Tyler Hill and Radfall a few times and found it perfectly fine for cycling. (I don't know what it would be like first thing on a Saturday morning, though.)
I'll be taking the train back to London :)
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The last place on that ride had been bagged by me! See you at breakfast.
Getting to it can be tricky, so i suggest printing out a map of some kind. Once on, it is easy to follow, but the final bit can be complicated. I use a GPX track, a print of a Google map is probably enough.
If you want i can print a section of ordnance survey map for you, and hand it over during the ride. Or you could follow me.
The C&W Way to Canterbury is about 50 minutes, and quicker than trains that involve changes at Strood, Paddock Wood etc. A decent brekkie and a bit of a rest was all i needed before popping to Canterbury, but i was thinner and stronger in those days. I have 28mm tyres and it's not been a problem, but that was some years ago. And once on the outskirts of Canterbury it's downhill all the way.
Thank you. Jurek has pointed out to me where it starts, so I should be alright without the map. But if you are going that way I'd be more than happy to join you.
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The last place on that ride had been bagged by me! See you at breakfast.
Getting to it can be tricky, so i suggest printing out a map of some kind. Once on, it is easy to follow, but the final bit can be complicated. I use a GPX track, a print of a Google map is probably enough.
If you want i can print a section of ordnance survey map for you, and hand it over during the ride. Or you could follow me.
The C&W Way to Canterbury is about 50 minutes, and quicker than trains that involve changes at Strood, Paddock Wood etc. A decent brekkie and a bit of a rest was all i needed before popping to Canterbury, but i was thinner and stronger in those days. I have 28mm tyres and it's not been a problem, but that was some years ago. And once on the outskirts of Canterbury it's downhill all the way.
Thank you. Jurek has pointed out to me where it starts, so I should be alright without the map. But if you are going that way I'd be more than happy to join you.
Also note, when you get to the uni, you want to turn left, not the more obvious straight on, this is just after the helipad, if you get to the telescopes you've gone to far. This will take you through the uni, and avoid the busy road down the hill.
Do note, through the uni the understanding of "this is a cycle path, and that is a footpath" is not common, so expect bipedal mobile obstacles with limited sense of direction.
Going down the main hill from the uni, there is a bit where it's suddenly gets considerably steeper for about 5m, then goes back to a more gentle gradient, this is your queue to start braking, as the metal barrier at the bottom of that bit really hurts when you hit it... (DAMHIKT*)
Good luck!
J
* I always wanted to saw through it twice, then put in a piece of wood with the metal bar back in place so when you hit it, it breaks away and doesn't hurt. Never did...
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Am red team, probably will be at the back, so probably the last at breakfast which means you can wait until i arrive if you want company to Canterbury.
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Assuming it hasn't degraded too much in the last 5 years...
It's actually been very much improved in the last five years. There are still a few rough sections, but also some proper tarmac. Most recently, they have tarmaced over the bit from Parkwood through to Blean church. Also the section between the Winding Pond and Blean is now compacted hoggin, which isn't perfect but a vast improvement on what it was (I thought they were going to tarmac it, but they've left it bare).
The silly Sustrans gates Kim mentions have been dealt with, and are now navigable on normal bikes (those with less mainstream machines may still have some problems though).
I would do it on 23mm tyres if it was just a one off section of a longer route. But I'd I was doing it regularly. I'd go for something wider...
This sounds about right.
Tbh, I wouldn't even ride on the road on 23mm tyres these days, but I'm an old man and need a bit of cushioning. But I use the C&W regularly on 28mm tyres, and it's fine.
I did once lead a group back to Canterbury following an FNRttC, but this was some years ago, when most of the route was not much better than farm tracks. I didn't make many friends that day. ;D
I'd be happy to put together a GPS track for anyone who would find that useful. As others have said, finding the start of the C&W in Whitstable is perhaps the hardest part, but once you're on it, it's mostly plain sailing.
ETA: here you go: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/36548862
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I'd be happy to put together a GPS track for anyone who would find that useful. Finding the start of the C&W in Whitstable is perhaps the hardest part, but once you're on it, it's mostly plain sailing.
That would be most welcome. Thank you. I'll ping a PM through to you with my email address.
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Am red team, probably will be at the back, so probably the last at breakfast which means you can wait until i arrive if you want company to Canterbury.
I'm with the Ross Advance Party, but as TEC. I would think there's a fair chance the groups will overlap at some point. I'm not dashing to get away, but equally I can't dawdle. Much depends upon when we get there - I don't want to be late for lunch.
If we can cycle a deux to Canterbury that would be lovely.
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I'd be happy to put together a GPS track for anyone who would find that useful. Finding the start of the C&W in Whitstable is perhaps the hardest part, but once you're on it, it's mostly plain sailing.
That would be most welcome. Thank you. I'll ping a PM through to you with my email address.
See link added to previous post, but I'm happy to email you the file if that's easier for you.
From the Waterfront, the way I would go completely bypasses Whitstable station. But if you did go via the station, there's a shiny new bit of path that links up to the start of the C&W.
One day they may even get around to extending the C&W all the way down to the harbour, but don't hold your breath.
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Oooo. I missed the link. Perfect. Thank you.
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Incidentally, I was thinking of the FNRttC only yesterday morning as I set out for my early commute - early enough to enjoy the sunrise and low-lying mist over the Seasalter levels (although riding away from it rather than towards it). Always one of the absolute highlights of this version of the FNRttC. Hope the weather conditions are suitable for you all to enjoy it tomorrow morning.
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Am red team, probably will be at the back, so probably the last at breakfast which means you can wait until i arrive if you want company to Canterbury.
I'm with the Ross Advance Party, but as TEC. I would think there's a fair chance the groups will overlap at some point. I'm not dashing to get away, but equally I can't dawdle. Much depends upon when we get there - I don't want to be late for lunch.
If we can cycle a deux to Canterbury that would be lovely.
I'm TEC on Kim's team, with Santa's little helper magic Grandpa Adrian as All Upper. mmmmartin, I've polished my hip flask. What could possibly go wrong?
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Incidentally, I was thinking of the FNRttC only yesterday morning as I set out for my early commute - early enough to enjoy the sunrise and low-lying mist over the Seasalter levels (although riding away from it rather than towards it). Always one of the absolute highlights of this version of the FNRttC. Hope the weather conditions are suitable for you all to enjoy it tomorrow morning.
It is also absolutely astonishing facing the sea at that point around evening twighlight when hundreds of thousands of birds come in to roost. I've never seen anything quite like it in my life. I've recorded the sound of curlews there to use as the alarm in my phone.
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I'm TEC on Kim's team ... What could possibly go wrong?
By the time you get to the Beach cafe us speedy Blue Team types will have eaten all the bacon rolls?
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I've not done the Whitstabubble FNRttC before. Do we need locks on bikes at the caff ?
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I've not done the Whitstabubble FNRttC before. Do we need locks on bikes at the caff ?
No. Take them upstairs on the terrace. (Assuming that there aren't 100's of you)
Also, you're in for a treat.
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Yes. Unless you can run very fast down stairs in cycling shoes.
(Personally I wouldn't take a chance on being allowed to take my bike up onto the terrace.)
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I don't know the Crab and Winkle way, but I've ridden from Canterbury to Whitstable on the B road that goes through Tyler Hill and Radfall a few times and found it perfectly fine for cycling. (I don't know what it would be like first thing on a Saturday morning, though.)
I've done that too, and the uphill part is very much Not Pleasant on account of the speed differential and the general absence of driver patience.
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Yes. Unless you can run very fast down stairs in cycling shoes.
(Personally I wouldn't take a chance on being allowed to take my bike up onto the terrace.)
On previous rides there's usually been half a dozen bikes up there, Neither Faye or any of her staff seemed unduly bothered.
At that time of day they don't have any punters other than the night ride dodgy types.
FNRttC has been putting cash through their till since something like 2008, at a time of day when they would otherwise be closed - I can't see them getting arsey about a few bikes.
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FPWM. I was forgetting how early it was that you'd be there.
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There's 60 on the ride, so I would imagine that not all will fit on the terrace. (Adds lock to packing list.)
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There's 60 on the ride, so I would imagine that not all will fit on the terrace. (Adds lock to packing list.)
A Covid pedant writes: There's 30 on one ride and 30 on another ride, setting off 30 minutes apart.
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I know nothing of the crab 🦀 and winkle way. But what a wonderful name for it.
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I know nothing of the crab 🦀 and winkle way. But what a wonderful name for it.
There's a lot of interesting history in the story of the Canterbury and Whitstable railway, upon which the crab and winkle runs...
J
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The path deviates from the railway line after you pass the winding pond (where they had the big steam powered winch to pull the trains up the hill). If you look on Google Earth you can still see where the railway line went. There was a tunnel under Tyler Hill, and you can still see the entrance portals at either end buried in the undergrowth, if you know where to look. Bricked up now, of course. It would be good if they could restore the tunnel one day and make it part of the C&W path - would make the climb out of Canterbury a bit easier.
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The path deviates from the railway line after you pass the winding pond (where they had the big steam powered winch to pull the trains up the hill). If you look on Google Earth you can still see where the railway line went. There was a tunnel under Tyler Hill, and you can still see the entrance portals at either end buried in the undergrowth, if you know where to look. Bricked up now, of course. It would be good if they could restore the tunnel one day and make it part of the C&W path - would make the climb out of Canterbury a bit easier.
the tunnel has been infilled after the computer science department started to fall into it...
J
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Hatler: i have printed a map of the route from the caff to the station for you, will hand over at some point.
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I usually get lost in the back streets to the station (daft as it's not that far) so have done a route this time in case I'm not going on to Canterbury https://ridewithgps.com/routes/36544884?privacy_code=lzJQOgxna3jZumJG
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I usually get lost in the back streets to the station (daft as it's not that far) so have done a route this time in case I'm not going on to Canterbury https://ridewithgps.com/routes/36544884?privacy_code=lzJQOgxna3jZumJG
You're not the only one. I find the up-and-over route via Castle Road is less error-prone, as you know to turn right after the bridge.
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We have despatched hatler to the tender mercies of the Crab and Winkle. Watch this space to see if he emerges.
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We have despatched hatler to the tender mercies of the Crab and Winkle. Watch this space to see if he emerges.
KSAR on standby...
J
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James R and I made it to Canterbury. Rather lovely codicil to a great ride :D
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I recall at least one Silly Sustrans Gate, where a Sustrans volunteer was collecting surveys from path users. Hopefully they're not still there.
The gates, or the volunteers?
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I recall at least one Silly Sustrans Gate, where a Sustrans volunteer was collecting surveys from path users. Hopefully they're not still there.
The gates, or the volunteers?
Yes :)
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Hatler: i have printed a map of the route from the caff to the station for you, will hand over at some point.
Perfect. Thank you. Very sorry you had to bail at Strood. My satnav got me to the start, but was so low on battery that I turned it off to save some for later so used your map for the end bit (which confirmed that the road was the obvious way to go).
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We have despatched hatler to the tender mercies of the Crab and Winkle. Watch this space to see if he emerges.
KSAR on standby...
J
No need for KSAR. Was able to find the C&W Way without any bother (even after a coupe of beers). Only had 10 minutes to wait for a train and once at Headcorn had a straightforward 8 mile run to the in-laws. A bit up and downy, and the weight in the panniers slowed me down a bit but got there in time for a rousing welcome and quite a boozy lunch. Feeling mildly pooped now. Might head for bed before 9pm, which is when I normally head off.
I think the day ended up at 85 miles, which will be the furthest I've been in a long time.
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Excellent, glad it worked out.
How was the surface in the end?
J
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Mostly tarmac, one very short section of road, the fast downhill section of road into Canterbury, and the remainder on perfectly negotiable hard pack.
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Glad it was a good ride. Very good to meet you (as we rode through the old arsenal) and - if they are looking - many thanks to Ross and Kim and their respective TLCs for a great night out. I can't make the Brighton ride but will sign up for the next one that I can make.
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Indeed. That was a ride strong on things to see. The inside of the Arsenal (last viewed by me in 1985), a fascinating route out of London, Chatham Castle, a murmuration of starlings around the gasometer, the noisiest frogs I've ever encountered in the UK, the submarine, the Sikh temple, Harmer Street in Gravesend and great views of the estuary. Oh yes, and a full moon (which isn't always a given).
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Did you use the canal path to leave Gravesend? Or did you go by road?
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Don't recall any canalside. Up the main drag and left at the clock tower.
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No canal then. The canal follows the path of the railway or, more to the point, the railway follows the path of the canal which is home to North American bullfrogs which make a raucous din when they're having a sexy time.
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Oh. We had the raucous frogs, that's for sure. I just don't recall that being 'not a road'.
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According to m'colleague Martin's strava log, you went via the main road to Higham rather than along the canal path.
I've never done the canal path. What's the surface like? I don't go out that way often but I must try it some time. Lower Higham Rd is fine at night but can be a bit hairy during the day. Local drivers. Pah!
The FNRttC route to Whitstable seems to have evolved quite a bit in the several years since I last did it.
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Last time I did the canal path it was just about do-able on 23s- but I've not been down there for so long it is fairly meaningless.
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The last time I did it, the canal path surface was similar to the C&W - fine on touring tyres, and mostly doable on road tyres, apart from the odd dodgy bit. Some of the undergrowth was getting marginal, and those who didn't have mudguards had to stop to pick bits of squished slug out of their front derailleurs. :hand:
I think there were a couple of Silly Sustrans Gates™ that were a right pain for those of a flat-barred persuasion.
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The only time I did the canal path it was fine (but then I ride with the Surrey and Sussex chapter of the Tandem Club, where COR on MIB is de riguer). I think Leggy raised an eyebrow at the surface. Jurek, elsewhere, in the Where The Wild Things are section, you can find a link to a recording of the frogs we encountered. Adrian reckoned they were American Bull Frogs , but then he has strange ideas about the steeple at Upchurch too. Croft, OTP, says they’re Marsh Frogs and the certainly sound like them.
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I think there were a couple of Silly Sustrans Gates™ that were a right pain for those of a flat-barred persuasion.
Aye, you can just about make them out through the foliage on Street View.
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I think there were a couple of Silly Sustrans Gates™ that were a right pain for those of a flat-barred persuasion.
Aye, you can just about make them out through the foliage on Street View.
Just outside that first bungalow at the eastern end of the canal path is a good place for picking wild rocket leaves. I've managed to grab a few pretty much every time I've passed there.
Cheryl, partner of the late, great Barry Mason pointed them out to me on my very first ride to Whitstable. Over supper in The Duke of Cumberland later that evening she pulled them from her pannier and tossed them over her meal.
<snip> Adrian reckoned they were American Bull Frogs , <snip>
I think Adrian may've been correct historically. However, as American Bullfrogs are very damaging to other wildlife and their environment, proactive efforts are made to eradicate them. Which, I suspect, is what has happened here.