To go tubeless or stay tubed.

[bobb]

I’ve just been exchanging messages with a friend who provides neutral service at big triathlon events across Europe and beyond.
The most common issue - tubeless tyres by far.
An interesting observation.

Surely the most common problem any cyclist faces whilst out on the road is tyre related?

[giropaul]

I’ve just been exchanging messages with a friend who provides neutral service at big triathlon events across Europe and beyond.
The most common issue - tubeless tyres by far.
An interesting observation.

Surely the most common problem any cyclist faces whilst out on the road is tyre related?

True, but he’s specifically commenting on issues about, typically, tubeless seating, or leaking.
A lot are pre-event, competitors getting their bike ready to “ rack” and discovering problems. Most issues, to be fair, are user error.

[perpetual dan]

That seems weird to me - if you’ve got as far as race day presumably you’ve had a chance to iron out most of the user error in training. Are people fitting something fresh and special (different) for race day? Or arriving by plane and treating their tyres to big pressure changes?

[Hot Flatus]

I'm perpetually amazed at the number of riders who are technically incompetent. Even really good riders. Some people just use bike shops for everything and have no knowledge.

That is fine for many things but not tubeless. I think they save time and effort overall, but there is a learning curve, and they probably should be avoided if you aren't prepared to learn to manage their pecadilloes.

[zigzag]

i know an olympic cyclist who cannot fix flat tyre. pumping the tyres up and lubing the chain - yes. but anything else is beyond their knowledge and interest.

[De Sisti]

i know an olympic cyclist who cannot fix flat tyre.

Without naming names this cannot be true.

[fd3]

bobb, did you fit a tube first?  I ran my setup with tubes first which (I believe) helped push the rim tape down and seal the rim.
Without wanting to show the usual prejudice, triathletes not knowing how to cycle/sort their bike out.  I am immensely surprised.

[bobb]

bobb, did you fit a tube first?

On the first wheel I didn't - it went up and stayed up straight away. The second wheel (you would have thought I would have the knack after the first!) didn't and was pissing air out around the spokes. So I put a tube in and left it overnight. After tube removal, it went up and stayed up.

It's been a week now and I've ridden it most days (including a 200 in the pissing rain on Saturday) and have had no problems. They don't seem to lose any pressure overnight (maybe the odd psi or two) and I'm very happy so far. *touches lots of wooden things*

[grams]

That seems weird to me - if you’ve got as far as race day presumably you’ve had a chance to iron out most of the user error in training. Are people fitting something fresh and special (different) for race day?

A lot of triathletes come from the running and/or swimming world and the bike is an afterthought that receives zero care or maintenance. It'll often be borrowed or barely have been ridden.

Which is one of the reasons they're thought of so poorly by bike shops / "proper" cyclists.

[perpetual dan]

Ah, I see. The few triathletes I know all seem to have a fair bit of cyclist, and pride in their bike, about them

[fd3]

Had a puncture the other day, just outside the library.  I had to rotate my wheel so that the puncture faced the ground while I went in to collect some books.  Harsh.

[bobb]

I had my first p*ncture today. I noticed the rear seemed to be going a bit flat about 10 miles from home, but it wasn't too bad so I carried on. When I got home the tyre was down to about 40psi. I found the hole and could see sealant had escaped there:



So I pumped it up but it wouldn't hold full pressure, so I left it for an hour or so. I came back to it and pumped it up again and it would seem to be holding full pressure now. Result!

I'll see how it is tomorrow. I'm a bit nervous about it though and wonder if I should repair it? I bought the Dynaplug racer thingy, but that seems a bit extreme for such a small hole. What about the repair patches you can use on the inside of the tyre such as the Hutchinson Rep'air? There are others (and they mostly all get mixed reviews) so are they worth it?

[Hot Flatus]

Just carry the dynaplug with you. Don't use it unless you need to. The internal patches are good as long as inner surface of tyre isn't shiny...but its a faff and the whole point of TL is to avoid faff.  If it were me, I'd see how it was, and if it didn't hold pressure I'd plug it

[bobb]

Just carry the dynaplug with you. Don't use it unless you need to. The internal patches are good as long as inner surface of tyre isn't shiny...but its a faff and the whole point of TL is to avoid faff.  If it were me, I'd see how it was, and if it didn't hold pressure I'd plug it

OK, cheers! I'll give it a go tomorrow...

[bobb]

Well, I went out yesterday and it wouldn't stay up. Not too bad though - I just had to stop a couple of times to shove some more air in. When I got home I used a dynaplug and that did the trick. Went out today and had no problems.

I guess now the emergency tube option is out as I've now got a plug with a pointy bit of metal in the tyre. I suppose if I did have to put a tube in, I could get a blade in there and cut off the tip first. Anyway, hopefully normal service will be resumed now....

..... and the whole point of TL is to avoid faff.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha! 

I know I'm still working my way along the learning curve, but the whole thing has been nothing but faff so far! But I'll persevere 

[zigzag]

i had a similar sized cut during the 24hr tt, it would spray for ten seconds then seal, this was happening every half an hour or so (accompanied by the expletives), around five times before i stopped to top up the air. i had to make a decision whether to add more sealant (as i wasn't sure how much of it is left) and pump it up or just top up the air and hope for the best. parkysouthlondon topped the tyre up from 60 to 80psi again and luckily the air stayed inside for the remaining 20hrs. time wasted only 30s.

[bobb]

I am now a full on tubeless convert 

I had started to notice evidence of p*nctures that had sealed themselves. The other week for example I did a 100 mile square bashing ride taking in all sorts of shitty farm tracks, fields and other places I wasn't meant to be. The next day there was a lot of sealant splurged inside both mudguards, so it was obviously doing its job.

Then yesterday, in appaling conditions they did their job admirably again. At the half way stop, when I remounted, I noticed two little pools of sealant that had dripped off the ends of both mudguards. Obvioulsy made to look much worse by all the zillions of gallons of water dropping out of the sky. But the tyres were still up to pressure.

After about 100 miles or so, in the now biblical rain, there was a sudden staccato psssht.... psssht.... psssht.... from the front tyre. Each time the wheel turned I could see a jet of sealant jizzing straight out of the tyre. I was just thinking "Oooooh shiiiiit!" when it suddenly stopped! Sealed up so fast I only got to about "Ooooh shi". That was a life safer as I think I would have rather topped myself than have to try and fix a flat in that weather with hands that weren't really workng properly.

When I got home, I checked the pressures. Both tyres started the day at 80 psi. After 158 miles of awful weather on often shitty lanes the front was at 75 and the rear 70. When cleaning the bike this morning, I noticed the rear tyre in particular is a bit of a state (1000+ miles on them now) with cuts and holes all over the place. But still it stays up!

Now as we near winter and the fixer comes out, it's time to get some new tubeless wheels built up for that...

[Hot Flatus]

Don't forget to top up the sealant if you've had a run of punctures. Valve out, inject in.

[BFC]

Now as we near winter and the fixer comes out, it's time to get some new tubeless wheels built up for that...

Spa have a decent range of tubeless rims again (in stock), and other stuff that's been unavailable for a while - looks like a long awaited container from the far east has been unloaded.

[sojournermike]

Kinlin 22T, 26T and 31T are rock solid fwiw

[IanDG]

i know an olympic cyclist who cannot fix flat tyre.

Without naming names this cannot be true.

I can believe it. When helping a friend who provided bikes to a professional team in the 1980s I was amazed at the poor standard of maintenance from some top class riders. I had to do the repairs and sort out the problems before the race because the riders didn't have a clue.

There's also a few riders in my current club who will phone for a lift home if they puncture - I assume because they're not confident changing a tube.

[sojournermike]

i know an olympic cyclist who cannot fix flat tyre.

Without naming names this cannot be true.

I can believe it. When helping a friend who provided bikes to a professional team in the 1980s I was amazed at the poor standard of maintenance from some top class riders. I had to do the repairs and sort out the problems before the race because the riders didn't have a clue.

There's also a few riders in my current club who will phone for a lift home if they puncture - I assume because they're not confident changing a tube.

Ignoring Olympic/professional riders, I think this is part of a trend toward using services rather than diy. Those of us ‘of a certain age’ grew up being expected to learn and do stuff - plus it was often simpler. Now we have been educated to be afraid and carbon does need a torque wrench…

[Lightning Phil]

Fixing punctures is as simple as it was when we were all kids. In fact if tubeless it can be simpler if you can find the puncture and plug it. No need to remove wheel from bike.

[ElyDave]

Fixing punctures is as simple as it was when we were all kids. In fact if tubeless it can be simpler if you can find the puncture and plug it. No need to remove wheel from bike.

Which is actuallly a very good point on a recumbent, which tend to become unwieldy lumps when stationary. 

Is there an easy way to tell if a set of rims are tubeless compatible?

[BFC]

Fixing punctures is as simple as it was when we were all kids. In fact if tubeless it can be simpler if you can find the puncture and plug it. No need to remove wheel from bike.

Which is actuallly a very good point on a recumbent, which tend to become unwieldy lumps when stationary. 

Is there an easy way to tell if a set of rims are tubeless compatible?

Tubeless ready have the extra micro ridges in the bed of the rim that retain the bead once it has been popped into place, and help stop the tyre bead dislodging during minor deflations. The general profile may help with getting the tyre to form an initial seal - this bit is highly debateable!
These ridges are not the best friends of traditional (bulky) cloth rim tapes on non tubeless builds! Mainly a problem on assymetric rims, but some tyres could be a real problem.
Ghetto tubeless is another option for tubeless set ups on non tubeless rims, but does lack the bead retention feature during a deflation.
Thin polyester rim tapes tend to be used for full tubeless set up (best to seat the rim tape using a tube to pressure cure the low tack adhesive before injecting the sealant though, and a temperature cycle also helps in my experience - solar or 50yr old oil boiler shed powered depending on season).