Suggestions for family meals - I'm stuck

[quixoticgeek]

I never forced my offspring to eat anything. The important thing to remember is that missing the odd meal won't do you any harm, as a child, or as an adult. If you're hungry, then you will eat. If you're not hungry enough to eat what's offered that's fine too. Whereas pampering to your child's every demand, however unreasonable and inconvenient to the other members of the household will turn them into the kind of egotistical self centred entitled little shits I couldn't abide.

There is a middle ground to be found that doesn't result in them in their late thirties being treated for psychological trauma arising from it. Just saying.

J

[T42]

They might even become cereal killers.

[Kim]

#firstworldproblems.
My children ate what they were given, or did without. There'll be another meal in a few hours.
I have 100% survival to adulthood. Let them phone childline.

Care has to be exercised tho, it's very easy to give kids life long trauma related to food(s) by the way that food is used as form of abuse. The "This is what's for dinner, like it or lump it", without the follow up consideration of "Well they didn't eat this one, I wonder why that was?"

There are foods that simply putting a mouthful of it in my mouth will cause me to puke, in part related to the way people in a position of power used food in ways that shouldn't.

+1

I have an intense dislike of certain foods, particularly those that are extremely bitter.  As a child I also had poor tolerance for things that were painful (eg. chilli, fizzy drinks, toothpaste), and a strong aversion to certain textures (fatty meat, slimy fruit and veg), though as an adult I've learned to HTFU about those when necessary.

My parents approached this with the textbook boomer tactics of starving (didn't work, I was more than happy to not eat^[1]), force-feeding (pretty much the above puke reaction), and bait-and-switch (usually thwarted by me having a functional sense of taste^[2]).  I survived and eventually they saw sense on a day-to-day level.  It's not like I was doing it deliberately, and there were plenty of foods that were boring or I simply didn't like but would pragmatically eat for the sake of an easy life.

Which didn't change the fact that my dad took my refusal to eat certain foods as a deliberate offence; I ruined countless family holidays and special occasions by not eating something or other, causing him to go into a sulk for weeks.  My mum (who I later realised was fucked up about not being able to have children) internalised all this as a failure to mother.  I'd occasionally get into trouble with other adults for not eating things, but mostly I avoided situations where I might be expected to eat unsafe food.  Frequently I'd fuck up and think something was safe based on verbal description or visual appearance and then discover it wasn't.  (This is far more offensive than not wanting the thing in the first place.)

(FWIW, it never occurred to me to phone Childline or similar.  All this was normal and ordinary, plus I had the sense to know which side random adults would be on.)

I waited it out, accidentally upping the ante by coming out as queer, not being as academically gifted as everyone hoped, and general disinterest in substance abuse.  Once I left home I could eat what I liked, mostly without being judged, and finally achieved a healthy weight^[3].  I still believe that I'm a fundamentally bad person for not eating things, of course.  Including things that adults are allowed not to like and the stuff that I can no longer tolerate for digestion/allergy reasons.  I continue to avoid situations where I might be expected to eat unsafe food, and generally lose interest in eating when stressed.

YMMV, and I don't claim to be any kind of expert, but I'd suggest this sort of thing isn't a hill worth dying on.  Don't force or coerce someone to eat things they don't want to, but that doesn't mean you have to go to extraordinary lengths to prepare extra meals for them either.  Make a basic effort not to contaminate things they'd otherwise eat, and if they don't like what you're cooking let them feed themselves without making a drama about it.


_{[1] I don't really feel hunger, I just get into the habit of eating.
[2] I got into trouble on a couple of occasions for refusing to eat food that had clearly gone off, but that their smoker tastebuds couldn't detect a problem with.
[3] It's got marginal again, because reasons.  I'm keeping an eye on it.}

[road-runner]

Nutty, my suggestion is baked potatoes, albeit not for your daughter that will not eat them, plus bowls and bowls of toppings such as onions, mushrooms, ham or bacon, sweetcorn, grated cheese, even possibly a side salad. Everyone gets to choose the toppings they like. Your daughter can have rice or something else she agrees beforehand is a simple to prepare substitute for a baked potato.

[Kim]

Nutty, my suggestion is baked potatoes, albeit not for your daughter that will not eat them, plus bowls and bowls of toppings such as onions, mushrooms, ham or bacon, sweetcorn, grated cheese, even possibly a side salad. Everyone gets to choose the toppings they like. Your daughter can have rice or something else she agrees beforehand is a simple to prepare substitute for a baked potato.

This sounds eminently sensible.  Put lots of things on the table and let people help themselves to what they want is a good strategy.

[nuttycyclist]

Thanks all for the suggestions thus far.

It's not that I do 100% separate meals, it's usually just that I have to plan ahead so that one set of veg will go with all meals, but certain aspects of each meal is substituted depending on which plate it is served on.  e.g. meatballs peas sweetcorn pasta go on the boy's plate, and then I add the whole lot to the homemade sauce and serve to everybody else.

It's only a fad they are going through, and I know we'll come out the other side fine, but as mentioned upthread by others I don't want to force "it's this meal or nothing" and then have them hating it for a lifetime.  I grew up on traditional meat&two veg, and the absolute treat if we saved up enough was the birthday meal of a Chinese takeway.  I'm not overly keen on spicey heat myself, but if staying away for work (pre-plague) and the colleagues all wanted an Indian then I'm fine with it (as long as the menu ordering choices and system are explained).   Mrs Nutty was similar on basic food growing up, and her first experience of an Indian restaurant led to serious illness and hence her dislike of anything with cumin/similar spices - which as per earlier posts is getting a pain eating out as it's seeming to become a fashion, e.g. in a basic coleslaw or tomato salsa side where you wouldn't expect it.

We've had a few issues eating out recently.  We've had food seasoned/flavoured not as described but Mrs Nutty worked around/through it,  but the children really played up and it was embarrassing.  I can understand why, as I'd have never thought of adding the additional flavours to a basic ham egg and chips and it wasn't described as such on the pub's children menu.


What I'm trying to do here is get new ideas for things to incorporate in meals and then ultimately combine back to a single simple meal that we can all sit and eat together; with the ultimate goal of them not being fussy eaters in the future and thus happy to eat anything wherever they find themselves.  I'm not going down the "eat it or leave it" route as I feel that that puts too much focus on the pressure of eating the food and has a negative and detrimental effect.

I've had successes over the years, mainly by getting them to help with the food prep and them asking if they can try various things, some they liked and others they hated. 

[Paul H]

Nutty, my suggestion is baked potatoes, albeit not for your daughter that will not eat them, plus bowls and bowls of toppings such as onions, mushrooms, ham or bacon, sweetcorn, grated cheese, even possibly a side salad. Everyone gets to choose the toppings they like. Your daughter can have rice or something else she agrees beforehand is a simple to prepare substitute for a baked potato.

This sounds eminently sensible.  Put lots of things on the table and let people help themselves to what they want is a good strategy.

How does that work without a load of waste?

[fd3]

^ When I lived in Germany it was the first time in about 5 years I was cooking for just me.  I would often make mexican, with the left over veg, beans, rice, etc going in the fridge for the next meal.
The advantage of this is that you can have a selection of food you need to top up, but then introduce a sauce/gravy to vary it up and rotate between wraps, quinoa, baked potato, rice as the filler.

[nuttycyclist]

This is all fine, unless you have somebody in the family brought up to believe that food goes off.   I am the main eater of leftovers in this house.   Some stuff I can get away with (e.g. a traditional chicken stew) but in the main leftovers are a no-no, hence my careful meal planning and current routine.




Was at a relatives a month or so back when we were finally allowed to travel.  BBQ had only been ready for about 15 minutes and there was already worry about what was left and what would need to immediately go in the bin.    My boy asked for a slice of chocolate sponge and got told "no, as it's been out for half an hour so needs to be thrown away" - a decision I overuled.

[Tim Hall]

Sounds close enough to a dish I know simply as 'green':

Get the pasta going.
Toast some pine nuts
Fry garlic, courgette slices, onions if you're committing to the time for them. Add in bacon at the appropriate point. Add in any other veg you fancy.
Apply contents of pan, plus some green pesto, to the cooked pasta. Sprinkle with the pine nuts. The pasta's lubricated, but not full on sauced.

Nicked. Ta.

[Kim]

Was at a relatives a month or so back when we were finally allowed to travel.  BBQ had only been ready for about 15 minutes and there was already worry about what was left and what would need to immediately go in the bin.    My boy asked for a slice of chocolate sponge and got told "no, as it's been out for half an hour so needs to be thrown away" - a decision I overuled.

*boggle*

I had a microbiologist's upbringing, so learned to treat rice, soft cheese and raw eggs with suspicion, but most other things were fair game.  It also meant that our fridges and freezers were kept within spec, so leftovers (and occasional medical samples) were stored with impunity.

I despair at MIL's habit of leaving things lying around for hours before returning them to a knackered fridge that's barely below ambient.  She's also horrendous for cross-contamination and sloppy at washing-up.  I assume that she hasn't actually poisoned anyone because she's Glaswegian and drowns the germs in salt and butter.

[quixoticgeek]

*boggle*

I had a microbiologist's upbringing, so learned to treat rice, soft cheese and raw eggs with suspicion, but most other things were fair game.  It also meant that our fridges and freezers were kept within spec, so leftovers were stored with impunity.

Glad I'm not the only one who doesn't do reheated rice.

I despair at MIL's habit of leaving things lying around for hours before returning them to a knackered fridge that's barely below ambient.  She's also horrendous for cross-contamination and sloppy at washing-up.  I assume that she hasn't actually poisoned anyone because she's Glaswegian and drowns the germs in salt and butter.

Something i can never understand why fridges don't just have a fucking temperature setting. Mine has a dial numbered 1-9. And I can't for the life of me work out what that means. Which is the colder? Why can't I just set it to 1°C and be done with it?

J

[rafletcher]

Re rice. Chinese fried rice (according to Ken Hom at least) is best made with pre-cooked rice chilled in the ‘fridge overnight. I’ve never had an issue with it.

[barakta]

I have friends who are incredibly picky about food and indeed have children who are the same. Some manage to grow out of it, if they don't get made fucked up about it first.

One friend was formally told to starve her child out, after 3 days she couldn't do it any more and still feels awful about trying. Child was later diagnosed as autistic and they had to get professional autistic-child dietician help around the child's food. Both parents are also recognised as autistic now, and friend says child is very like she was when young. The food solutions aren't magic, stress to child causes eating-refusal so the family have strategies for managing safe foods during anticipated and recognised stress times. 

I just wish more families were like the above friend's. I see how fucked up Kim is about food and it breaks my heart.

I also see in community activism how food is a MAJOR source of conflict at times. Food is never simple, it's bound up in class and wealth, culture and ethnicity, family, identity, belonging or not belonging as well as perceptions.

[Kim]

*boggle*

I had a microbiologist's upbringing, so learned to treat rice, soft cheese and raw eggs with suspicion, but most other things were fair game.  It also meant that our fridges and freezers were kept within spec, so leftovers were stored with impunity.

Glad I'm not the only one who doesn't do reheated rice.

Oh, I reheat rice.  But only if I've put it in the fridge immediately after cooking as a lazy second portion.

Something i can never understand why fridges don't just have a fucking temperature setting. Mine has a dial numbered 1-9. And I can't for the life of me work out what that means. Which is the colder? Why can't I just set it to 1°C and be done with it?

We've got one of those.  It's a kind of inverse-gas-mark.

I suspect the problem is that defining fridge temperature is a hard problem with need for more than one highlighter pen^[1], and manufacturers can't be arsed with the liability of a thermostat set to 4C resulting in food at something considerably warmer.


_{[1] Is it the temperature of the cooling coil?  Or the air in the fridge?  Or something with more thermal mass?  Where about in the fridge do you measure it?  Do you measure the instantaneous temperature?  When it's on or off?  Or do you take some kind of average?}

[quixoticgeek]

Oh, I reheat rice.  But only if I've put it in the fridge immediately after cooking as a lazy second portion.

Ah. I decide to not take the risk.

We've got one of those.  It's a kind of inverse-gas-mark.

I suspect the problem is that defining fridge temperature is a hard problem with need for more than one highlighter pen^[1], and manufacturers can't be arsed with the liability of a thermostat set to 4C resulting in food at something considerably warmer.


_{[1] Is it the temperature of the cooling coil?  Or the air in the fridge?  Or something with more thermal mass?  Where about in the fridge do you measure it?  Do you measure the instantaneous temperature?  When it's on or off?  Or do you take some kind of average?}

Given the cost of cheap low power computing, you'd think they could do that a bit better than they do. Or at least provide us with a good temperature display. Freezers seem to manage it.

J

[Kim]

Given cheap low power computing, do you  a) make a better fridge  or  b) connect it to the internet and provide an app.

Quite.

[Mrs Pingu]

I have never had cold or reheated rice (that I know of) ever since I found out that the rice food poisoning thing is to do with spores...

[nuttycyclist]

I frequently eat re-heated rice.    The chinese takeaways (which are no longer an annual birthday treat) often last for two three or even four days with the portion sizes and leftovers.  (I eat the prawns on day one.)


As for the fridge, I agree with the idea of "set a specified temperature" but I believe that in practice the 1-9 dial is much better.  A full fridge is different to an empty fridge, and the weather makes a difference too.  I've had the fridge warmer than expected, but then when something touches the back it ices on and massive ice cubes follow.    In the last few days with this weather the entire back of the fridge is frosted over, despite me not having touched the dial in years.

I know many fridges which I have seen do indeed have a display reading on the door, but I treat that readout with a pinch of salt.

[Kim]

I have a temperature sensor in the fridge, with RRDtool logging a reading every minute and drawing pretty graphs, including calculating a 24 hour rolling average.

The amplitude of the fluctuations varies greatly with how full the shelf next to the sensor is.  Putting something with significant thermal mass (eg bottles/cartons of liquid) in skews the temperature for many hours.  I have to tweak the thermostat setting from time to time, and since the recent addition of a piece of gaffer tape, I've determined that this isn't due to the knob getting knocked.  I had to turn it up by about 1/4 of a fridge mark to compensate for the recent heatwave.  Previously, it would occasionally get stuck in the on position for hours on end, but I replaced the thermostat, which fixed that.

Basically, fridges are a bit rubbish, but the real lesson here is that you can't determine the temperature of a fridge just by looking at a thermometer.  (A better approach would be to put the thermometer in a bowl of water and come back in a couple of days.)

[Mr Larrington]

I never forced my offspring to eat anything. The important thing to remember is that missing the odd meal won't do you any harm, as a child, or as an adult. If you're hungry, then you will eat. If you're not hungry enough to eat what's offered that's fine too. Whereas pampering to your child's every demand, however unreasonable and inconvenient to the other members of the household will turn them into the kind of egotistical self centred entitled little shits I couldn't abide.

There is a middle ground to be found that doesn't result in them in their late thirties being treated for psychological trauma arising from it. Just saying.

J

Uncorrected personality traits that seem whimsical in a child may prove to be ugly in a fully-grown adult.

[perpetual dan]

I think most of my suggestions have already been had: stir fry with sauce separate, baked potatoes with a choice of toppings, pizzas with a choice of toppings, salad with a few things to choose from. The sense of choice / control helps to get kids on board - the unchosen will presumably end up in you, or tomorrow’s supper but I’m sure you can plan for that without killing anyone.

Couscous is popular in our house, optionally with veg in, for some starch variety. Typically with salmon, but ymmv. Leftovers risotto as well, usually with left over chicken after a roast. My kids also quite liked smoked mackerel in a bit of milk, with rice and peas. I know that fish isn’t popular with everyone, but wasn’t sure if it was all fish or just fnc fish.

[Jaded]

A veg curry, chicken curry or prawn and  pea curry?

None of them like spices.

Aha!

[ian]

I never forced my offspring to eat anything. The important thing to remember is that missing the odd meal won't do you any harm, as a child, or as an adult. If you're hungry, then you will eat. If you're not hungry enough to eat what's offered that's fine too. Whereas pampering to your child's every demand, however unreasonable and inconvenient to the other members of the household will turn them into the kind of egotistical self centred entitled little shits I couldn't abide.

There is a middle ground to be found that doesn't result in them in their late thirties being treated for psychological trauma arising from it. Just saying.

Psychological trauma from being forced to eat broccoli? Blimey. It's like the middle-class apocalypse, aka Olivia won't eat olives.

[andrewc]

https://twitter.com/Annie__McGuire/status/1419644868863922179?s=20





I was the fussiest eater imaginable as a child, with a fine mastery of projectile vomiting.   No onions & nothing green.....