Tubeless for Dummies

[Sergeant Pluck]

I don't think it would make a difference to the number of punctures, just to the degree of inconvenience. 

I’m tempted to give it a try to allow lower pressures and for ride quality. And just to try something new. I’m a bit wary as it this is a bike that might only get used weekly, or might sit even longer at times, and I have read that this isn’t good with tubeless.

[chrisbainbridge]

I have three tubeless bikes so they can easily go a week or 3 without moving. Not seen any downside.

[ElyDave]

Sealant applied today, approx 100ml per tyre, surprisingly clean and not difficult at all.

Is it the done thing to carry extra sealant on tour, or just rely on tubes if needed?

[Ian H]

I'm running fairly fragile Panaracers at the mo.  I had a couple of minor punctures on the front & should have topped up the sealant, but didn't.  A third puncture somewhere near Toller Down resulted in a soft tyre, so I put a tube in (noticing what little sealant remained had dried out). 

At home I removed the tyre, patched the latest hole, and refitted it with new sealant.  Satisfyingly, it popped on with not even the slightest leak.  I cleaned and talcked the tube and replaced it in the tool bottle. 

So yes, I could have saved a bit of time if I'd been carrying my small bottle of sealant. 

[BFC]

For non permanent marking of tyres - to identify where to stuff the worms/patch the inside or highlighting useful info (like front/rear, direction of rotation) - chalk based marker pens are clearly visible on tyres and rims. They wipe off with a damp cloth.

For more permanent markings paint pens resist water.

[chrisbainbridge]

Anybody finding Schwalbe tubeless not staying seated as they deflate between use?  I have used Scwalbe tubeless tyres for a number of years but recently have found that they seem to warp and twist during deflation in the garage so that they pull off the rim.  Previously or with Hutchison, if they deflated over the winter for example, they would stay sealed and simply reinflate.  Now I am having to get the Airshot out again.  This is despite them being regularly used and seated prior to leaving.

This happened over the last 3 weeks whilst away where the tyre on the rear, a Schwalbe has deflated and pulled of the rim, whereas the front a GP5000 is virtually flat but still fully sealed.

[jiberjaber]

The dried out tubless G-ones on my CdF hanging in the garage are still adheared to the rims so have stayed put. Last ridden 24 June 2021

[Feanor]

I have had this happen a couple of times, but not too often.

The G-ones on my Shand slowly deflated over lockdown, and eventually un-seated at the point where the tyre was deformed against the floor by the weight of the bike.
I suspect if it had been stored with no deforming load ( like hung up ), it would have been fine.

The second time was on fitting new G-ones (40mm, a bit fatter than the original 35s. ).  The tyres are a little mis-shapen when you initially unfold them from their packaging, but seated just fine with the shock pump.  Let it sit in this state for an hour or so, then deflated to remove valve core to inject sealant.  I suspended the wheel with a broom-handle through the spokes, to the tyre was not subject to any weight-bearing deformation.  But the thing did un-seat, just sitting suspended in space.  I put the sealant in anyways, and then shock-pumped it back up and it re-seated just fine.

I think in this second case, the tyre still had a desire to return to it's folded shape, and after a longer time seated on the rim, it would be less inclined to do this.

Millkit valves allow you to de-pressureise to around 10psi to add/remove sealant with their clever system.  This prevents un-seating of depressurised tyres.

[chrisbainbridge]

Interesting. These were ones which had been seated for several months with just a pump up every week. Then when I came back fro just over 2 weeks away the rear schwalbe was flat and unseated. The front gp5000 soft but in place.

[Dominic]

Sorry if I have missed this elsewhere.  Any suggestions for getting tubeless sealant off a steel frame?  Took mudguards off for the summer.  Have had a couple of incidents that have sprayed sealant everywhere (Muc off sealant).   I can scrape it off the down tube but it is a pain in the rear around the bottom bracket and other places.  I asked LBS and they suggested disk brake cleaner.  I notice that there is sealant remover for tyres, would that do the trick?

What is really gripping me is that it is a white frame and the dried on sealant makes it look really grubby

Thanks in advance.

[jiberjaber]

Sorry if I have missed this elsewhere.  Any suggestions for getting tubeless sealant off a steel frame?  Took mudguards off for the summer.  Have had a couple of incidents that have sprayed sealant everywhere (Muc off sealant).   I can scrape it off the down tube but it is a pain in the rear around the bottom bracket and other places.  I asked LBS and they suggested disk brake cleaner.  I notice that there is sealant remover for tyres, would that do the trick?

What is really gripping me is that it is a white frame and the dried on sealant makes it look really grubby

Thanks in advance.

I've the from teh same source of taking the guards off. I did think of using a plastic scraper but the crevisces are a royal PIA to get in to on the bottom of seat tube etc.

following with interest.  I think Frank OTP (and currently on TCR) had a similar issue trying to reolve....

[BFC]

Brake cleaner(s) should not have a significant affect on rubber components (like seals, covers and tyres) used on braking systems. You don't want to be destroying these critical parts when cleaning brakes up. Brake cleaner will dissolve most grease, waxes and brake fluids.

As the sealant is an uncured latex it may be affected by brake cleaner, but don't expect a rapid response. A natural solvent for uncured latex is ammonia solution - used to be able to buy it from old fashioned chemists, but avoid extended exposure of aluminium parts to it because it dissolves the protective layer of aluminium oxide and can induce corrosion of anodised parts.

Trichloroethylene used to significantly affect rubber components - they would soften and swell before reverting to original size/shape if left undisturbed.

Distilled (white) vinegar is an alternative solvent that can work on some things that other solvents won't touch - it dissolves lead!, never tried it on latex spillage myself though. It does make a good hard floor and shower cleaner when diluted in water that is pet/child safe.

[ElyDave]

you could also try soemthing like WD 40 as a non-polar generic solvent, or acetone

[Dominic]

Thanks will give them a try and let you know.

[ElyDave]

Next time I want to top up sealant, remember, take the wheel off the bike first. Just emptying the air with the weight of the bike on it seems to have slightly disturbed the bead  resulting in small drips of sealant all round

[Kim]

I was in Mr Sainsbury's Emporium of Toothy Comestibles this afternoon, and discovered that tubeless bogroll is now a thing.  This confused me for far too long.

[jiberjaber]

I was in Mr Sainsbury's Emporium of Toothy Comestibles this afternoon, and discovered that tubeless bogroll is now a thing.  This confused me for far too long.

Hopefully it doesn't leak like some tubeless tyre sidewalls do!

[MartinC]

I was in Mr Sainsbury's Emporium of Toothy Comestibles this afternoon, and discovered that tubeless bogroll is now a thing.  This confused me for far too long.

What special tools do you need to change a bog roll now?  Is this an end to snakebite punctures on the ass?

[Cudzoziemiec]

I saw that this morning. I'm now regretting hot having bought it. But where do you apply the sealant? 

[Sergeant Pluck]

So I have been having visitations, not something I am used to. Tyres are Panaracer Gravel King Slick TLC. I am running them tubed, with normal butyl tubes.

It has occurred to me that I might be better off running them tubeless. Today’s visitation was courtesy of a tiny piece of glass that I was fortunate to find and it would surely have been handled by sealant.

However, I read that this tyre not considered great on some rims for tubeless purposes, so not keen to make this my first tubeless venture. The tyres do go on rather easily, without tyre levers, and I can remove them without levers too if I unseat both sides.

Having said that when I was putting the bike together I experimented, since the rims were already taped, and the tyres seated first time using CO2 and stayed up for several hours anyway without sealant.

Any experiences with these particular tyres? I occasionally read comments along the lines of “yes, they are a light tyre, and the reason you are getting so many visits is because you have tubes which the tyres are not robust enough to protect. They are meant to be run tubeless, so that sealant can do its hole-fixing work”.

https://www.panaracer.co.uk/shop-c1/tyres-c34/gravel-tyres-c2/panaracer-gravel-king-slick-tlc-folding-tyre-p48

[Ian H]

So I have been having visitations, not something I am used to. Tyres are Panaracer Gravel King Slick TLC. I am running them tubed, with normal butyl tubes.

It has occurred to me that I might be better off running them tubeless. Today’s visitation was courtesy of a tiny piece of glass that I was fortunate to find and it would surely have been handled by sealant.

However, I read that this tyre not considered great on some rims for tubeless purposes, so not keen to make this my first tubeless venture. The tyres do go on rather easily, without tyre levers, and I can remove them without levers too if I unseat both sides.

Having said that when I was putting the bike together I experimented, since the rims were already taped, and the tyres seated first time using CO2 and stayed up for several hours anyway without sealant.

Any experiences with these particular tyres? I occasionally read comments along the lines of “yes, they are a light tyre, and the reason you are getting so many visits is because you have tubes which the tyres are not robust enough to protect. They are meant to be run tubeless, so that sealant can do its hole-fixing work”.

https://www.panaracer.co.uk/shop-c1/tyres-c34/gravel-tyres-c2/panaracer-gravel-king-slick-tlc-folding-tyre-p48

I'm currently running the same tyre tubeless on Velo Orange rims.  As long as you top up the sealant when the tyre starts to lose significant pressure over a couple of days, they're fine and, as you say, easy to get on and off without levers.

[Sergeant Pluck]

Thanks Ian H.

Is it not undesirable for tyres to be easy to get on and off in a tubeless set-up, a sign that that they are not seating as well as they should?
How often are you needing to top up, and is the sealant drying up or being lost in between times? If the latter, are you having to clean up much mess from the bike?
 

[chrisbainbridge]

I don’t think ease of fitting matters as that is a function of thee path of the central well. The fact that the inflated easily and stayed up for a while without sealant is the important thing.

[Sergeant Pluck]

I’ve decided to stop dithering, asking the same thing over and over again on here, and to give it a go on the commute bike to start with.

Silca sealant on the way. Tyres are Gravel King semi slicks which I have been using tubed but I am hoping that will help ensure they seat well, even if there may be some early sealant loss due to existing small holes.

Sealant reviews and “tests” are a world of pain, in which every positive assessment has its exact opposite in the next hit on Google. I have made my bed and shall now lie in it.

[fd3]

Speaking of which, what are the panel's current thoughts on

Stans/DocBlue vs OrangeSeal vs MucOff vs Hutchinson (etc)?

Used the last of my sealant and I need to buys some more.