Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Freewheeling => The Dark Side => Topic started by: Galloper on 06 August, 2010, 01:59:33 pm
-
Yet another request for advice from all you knowledgeable and helpful folk. I've been pondering buying a 'bent for some time but don't know anyone who has one so hopefully I will get the help I need here.
I love cycling and being semi retired spend a lot of my time pottering about the lanes of the North East and touring anywhere and everywhere. Quite a lot of my trips take me along tracks and trails which are sometimes less than smooth. I guess I'm looking for the equivalent of my Dawes Karakum. I'm also looking for a reasonably tall bike, I don't like the idea of being too close to Mother Earth.
I haven't mentioned the all important price range but max would be £2k and I'd have to think awfully hard about that. Second hand is also a (very good) option.
any suggestions?
-
I've had a test ride on a Trice B2. It was a bit too tall for my little legs, but still very stable steering.
The B1 would be my choice ('cause I have very short legs)
B2 for someone taller.
Both under £2k, both 2010 models fold as well.
I believe that D-Tek do short-term hire to try them out. Trice also let you take them for a ride for an afternoon if you go visit.
-
Nazca Gaucho
Nazca Pioneer
Challenge Seiran
Optima Condor
I already sold my 23kg Pioneer(newer versions weigh less), so I can't help you though.
-
Most of the recumbent tourists I know use trikes - predominantly the Trice. But this is probably too low for you. Although have you had a test ride of one? You might be surprised.
For a two-wheeled tourer, I'd be looking at a Streetmachine like Kim's.
Either way, your first action should be to ring Kevin at D.Tek in Ely. He has a wide range of machines and is immensely knowledgeable and highly regarded.
-
Street Machine (http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/produkte/sm/gte/index_e.html). Quite possibly the definitive beast.
It's not fast, but is comfy and carries much stuff.
-
I've got a Bacchetta Giro 20 for sale which is a good touring recumbent; not too low and reasonably quick. http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=31301.0 (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=31301.0) I think this would be quite a good option for you. Also, there is a Bacchetta Agio for sale somewhere on the forum (which I have no connection with) which is a long wheelbase bike. I would also agree that the streetmachine is a good bike although quite heavy. It's probably the definitive touring 'bent.
Feel free to pm me if you want to know more about the Giro - I'm happy to discuss it even if you're not interested. I'm keen you get the right machine as they're an expensive mistake if you get it wrong.
Rich.
-
If you've never tried a trike, I would put your preconceptions aside for an hour or so and have a go. Having a couple of trikes and a pretty high (home-built) recumbent bike, the trikes are far more fun. You can carry as much as you want, go easy, go fast(ish!), soak in the view, and never have to worry about balancing the thing. They have tremendous road presence despite being lower - I feel far safer on mine than on any bike and regularly ride roads that I would think twice about on two wheels. Being "low down" does not limit what you see - in fact, you see far more on any recumbent than on a DF bike.
If you are in North East England, you could try taking a trip up to Edinburgh to try out some trike and bikes at Laid Back Bikes (http://www.laid-back-bikes.co.uk/). Not tried personally (yet) but have corresponded with David and he seems a nice guy.
-
How do you get to the Start?
Trikes as a rule don't go on a train, so you are restricted.
The larger tourers are also a problem where space is limited.
I tour on the Hurricane if light, and the Street Machine for heavy duty.
-
Fairly obviously, I'm in favour of the Streetmachine and relatives. Its only real flaw is its weight, and that's going to be less of an issue once you're carrying some luggage. It carries a massive load beautifully well. The riding position is fairly high up, with some adjustment in the seat angle (I rode mine with the seat fully forward for a bit while teaching someone to ride it earlier today and was shocked by how much higher up I was). Your head height is roughly the same as that of people in normal cars, and you're certainly high enough not to need to worry about flappy orange flags.
You mention tracks and trails. The awesomely good HPVelotechnic suspension is likely to be a major advantage on naff surfaces, and well worth the extra weight.
I'm a big fan of under-seat steering (and the equivalent positions on trikes). Not having to juggle wrist issues against a sore bum is what really does it for me about recumbents, and USS puts the arms in a completely relaxed position that you can happily maintain for hours with no ill effects. It's arguably a bit weird to get used to, but you don't want to be basing your bike choices on what a couple of hours of riding will put right.
As for three wheels vs two, that's worth some real consideration. Two wheels are going to be helpful if you're dealing with rutted unsurfaced roads or stupid bollards with any regularity. They arguably make fitting it on a train a bit easier (though recumbents and trains are likely to be a major headache regardless). Three wheels mean, amongst other things, you're not worried about maintaining a minimum speed on climbs, which I'd regard as a fairly serious advantage. While I find that, with a bit of practice, the Streetmachine is capable of amazing feats of staying balanced at low speeds, getting started on an uphill slope is distinctly nontrivial, especially with a load.
-
Definitely have a look at the Grasshopper too, as piloted by Rower40 of this parish. I have to say, if I was ever in the market for another touring 'bent, it would be a Grasshopper fx, a foldable 20/20" wheeled version of Kim's SMGT.
-
The manager of the office where I work has a Grasshopper.
It's very very similar to the Trice B1. Not much to choose between them. Both fold, similar shape and proportions.
His previous bent was a HP Spirit, and the grasshopper is very much faster and with better handling.
-
Definitely have a look at the Grasshopper too, as piloted by Rower40 of this parish.
Absolutely, having had a good thrash round the field on it I was rather impressed. Handling is a little bit nippier than the SMGT, but all the comfort is still there, and from our non-scientific but thoroughly fun experimentation on the B480 last Sunday, it seems to benefit aerodynamically from the lower position. Being slightly lower also means you can get a foot down more easily.
It'll take racks for a full set of four panniers too, though not quite as well distributed as on the Streetmachine. I doubt that makes a lot of difference in practice.
...and of course the folding version would make train problems evaporate.
-
There are so many different types that would work for you.
You could fit a trailer to any of the recumbents listed or any recumbent as it happens.
Any Bacchetta can have a under seat rack fitted which will take panniers.
Try as many as you can and get the one that feels best.
As others have said, if you can get over to Kevins near Ely* you can try loads of different bikes.
It's well worth the visit.
Rich.
*01353 648177 call him or get over to Mildenhall and have a chat.
-
Many thanks everyone for all the information, I'm going to start browsing the various makes you've mentioned to find out more.
I was planning a trip to the Brecklands next week so a trip to Ely at the same time looks as if it will be invaluable.
I hadn't thought about a trailer in this context but it makes a lot of sense. I recently weighed my racks and pannier bags and they came to about 6kg whereas a Bob Yak with bag weighs 8kg. More to think about and a top tip.
Hmm! Suspension. That makes a lot of sense. NCN 1 in my part of the world is decidedly bumpy in places.
And another thing I hadn't thought about was negotiating the crushes on various cycle paths. The people who put them in certainly never seem to have thought about people with loaded touring bikes.
I'll follow up on the trike idea as well. I have to admit I'm a little wary about the height but having read your comments, I'll explore it further, especially with the mentioned advantage of hill starts.
Thanks again to everyone.
-
And another thing I hadn't thought about was negotiating the crushes on various cycle paths. The people who put them in certainly never seem to have thought about people with loaded touring bikes.
I'll follow up on the trike idea as well. I have to admit I'm a little wary about the height but having read your comments, I'll explore it further, especially with the mentioned advantage of hill starts.
Thanks again to everyone.
The Oracle (aka kevin @ d-tek) is the one to see, re crushes they are really illegal, I mean how does a wheelchair negotiate them, I shall have a go at my local council on disabled access.
Re trikes, the newest Trice would press all the buttons for you, folds etc and as someone else said their road prescence is amazing despite a lowish profile, our trikes have liberated us travelling further afield than anything else we have ever owned.
Best of luck and when you see The Oracle try everything he offers.
8)
-
Hmm! Suspension. That makes a lot of sense. NCN 1 in my part of the world is decidedly bumpy in places.
It's beneficial on a 'bent even on normal (that is to say, normal levels of crappiness) roads. There isn't really an equivalent of the get-out-of-the-saddle-and-absorb-the-impact-with-bent-knees manoeuvre. Suspending all the luggage, in the style of HPVelotechnik machines, is also a bonus - both for the benefit of the luggage and the rolling efficiency.
-
+1 For all-round suspension.
The facility to ride off a full-height kerb and land on the road with just a BOING and a big grin is invaluable.
Definitely have a look at the Grasshopper too, as piloted by Rower40 of this parish.
Absolutely, having had a good thrash round the field on it I was rather impressed.
Kim - I'm glad I gave you a nice ride. 8)
-
Already kind of mentioned via 'relatives', a Speedmachine might also be worth considering - IIRC takes panniers in the same way as a SMGT, a bit lower and more reclined (tho' I have mine fairly upright). Front suspension is in some ways a little more basic than that of a SMGT, but it works well enough. Head height's about the same or higher than that of a driver in a sports car.
-
Looking at the new threads list with bleary eyes, I read this as "Best bent for a torturer".
-
Certainly on the "tracks and trails" in this part of the country "the crushes on various cycle paths" would make a trike pretty inconvenient. I've had a short test on one and while I liked it V much it simply wouldn't go many of the places where I ride.
-
i ride a qnt which has just been fitted with the new folding rear end . i have managed most of the cycle gates on sustrans routes with little problem .i use a carry freedom city trailier which is used as a trolley for the trike folded in it's bag when i use the coach or train. traffic gives the trice plenty of room unlike my lwb recumbent which is treated like any other bike ie passed to close to fast ,cut up at pinch points ect .i find the trike more relaxing to ride as without the need to balance i can take in more of what is about me. my lwb recumbent is faster and easy to ride. if you need a lwb recumbent but also use the train have a look at the linear lwb. d tek i think still has a few which fold as the current no longer do :)
-
Looking at the new threads list with bleary eyes, I read this as "Best bent for a torturer".
Empirically, that would have to be an Optima Baron.
-
I have a little list, you know Roger...
::-)
-
I have a little list, you know Roger...
Port, or starboard?
IGMC
-
Will people STOP mentioning the Streetmachines and Grasshoppers please!
I have been the owner of four different streetmachines and am now the owner, through my own idiot head, of none and I miss them. Yes they are a bit heavy but they are also solid enough to feel good. Take all the luggage that you want and the only negative is the occasional hassle on trains.
Best recumbent touring bike in History.
If somebody bought my Bachetta Agio that would go somewhat towards SMGT (or SMGTE) number 5.
-
I rarely use the train, what I do, quite often, is chuck everything into the back of my very small car (Ford KA) and then spend 4 or 5 days somewhere new before setting off and repeating the action. I do have a bike rack which I use occasionally. Has anyone used something like that for a 'bent? I guess there won't be a problem with a folder.
I might add, that I'm starting to get really quite worked up about this, thanks to all the help.
-
I don't own a car, but the buyer of forementioned Nazca Pioneer turned up an Audi TT (first model). I didn't think it would fit. It did, after removing both wheels and the rack. And I think also the rear mudguard.
-
Not owning a car, that's something I've only thought about superficially, but most recumbents are, by nature, a single rigid pole with stuff attached, which is going to be significantly more awkward to fit in a car than an upright (which tend to have useful bendy bits and removable wheels that change the overall length). If it works at all, it's going to be either with the aid of a big car, or some time-consuming spanner work.
I can't imagine the majority of bike carriers are very recumbent-friendly, either. Roof-mounted is likely to be the best approach.
There's a lot to be said for folding, in this context. The nifty fold of the newer Trices, while perhaps suboptimal for trains, is clearly a massive win for sticking-it-in-the-back-of-a-car purposes.
-
One advantage to trikes: roof bars and a three toe straps. Though I understand some people dispense with the roof bars and use a big roll of gaffer tape ;D
-
I've had my Ice S trike on a rack on the back of a Ka
It was about twice the height ;D
-
i have had my trice part folded on the rear bike rack of kevins d teks car :). with the new fold it might be posable to fit it in back seat area of your ka :thumbsup:
-
I got a Trice Q into the passenger seat of a Smart Roadster.... :smug:
-
SWB 'bents will generally fit upon standard bike racks on cars - take the seak off and my SMGT fits on a normal roof rack mount - the swing arm clamps the main tube and the wheelbase is the same as a diamond frame. Equally I have seen it mounted upon a rear carrier.
-
Bacchetta Giro or a trike.
i have the giro 26x26 light and fast i use home made seat bags with mine.
Sign in to Yahoo! (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/triceriders/photos/album/1760066476/pic/list)
£5 per bag from lidle.
for heavy or long distance touring the trice q is the stead of choice, the most relaxed i have ever been on a bike.
-
Well personally I really like my Challenge Mistral, I got it from David at Laidback, who I'd recommend without hesitation. With the voyager rack it could carry four panniers though I can get everything I need for camping in two.
I do sometimes wonder whether larger wheels might make me a bit quicker over rough ground, but it's a full-sus bike and it's very confortable.
Last year I went from Beaune to Barcelona on it, via the Massif Central, and this year from Auxerre to Agen, both 1000km+ trips that the bike handled confortably.
http://www.x-alt.com/blog/showevent.php?eventid=25 (http://www.x-alt.com/blog/showevent.php?eventid=25)
http://www.x-alt.com/blog/showevent.php?eventid=27 (http://www.x-alt.com/blog/showevent.php?eventid=27)
Rob
-
Great trip reports, robD - and fabulous photos. :thumbsup:
Thanks very much ;D
-
I do sometimes wonder whether larger wheels might make me a bit quicker over rough ground, but it's a full-sus bike and it's very confortable.
I ride a Toxy ZR (20" wheels) and a Speed Ross (rear 700C) and the former is very dodgy on rough ground at speed, it rattles and skates around and, if cornering, jolts the bike upright so you can't take the corner - had a few near misses because of that. The SR is fine even with no sus so long as you don't use narrow tyres. So probably the answer is Yes.
-
Hmmm! Spoiled for choice I think. I've been away for a week and as I was heading to Thetford, popped into Little Thetford to visit D-Tek only to find it closed. My fault, really, should have phoned ahead.
-
Hmmm! Spoiled for choice I think. I've been away for a week and as I was heading to Thetford, popped into Little Thetford to visit D-Tek only to find it closed. My fault, really, should have phoned ahead.
Kevin does ask that you phone ahead. He seems to open on request.
-
I'd say either a Catrike Expedition or if you a want a two wheel, an Optima Lynx.