Author Topic: Titanium Bike makers  (Read 63894 times)

Paul Smith SRCC

  • Surrey Road Cyling Club
  • 45+ years a club rider, 33+ years in cycle trade.
    • www.plsmith.co.uk
Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #25 on: 20 June, 2008, 12:12:00 pm »
Quote
The result is that all frames, no matter what they are made of should have a long life and perform as designed.
OT:
This reminds of a story from when cam-belts were still Quite a New Thing in motor cars.
A friend asked VW how long the belt would last before snapping:
"Oh don't worry sir, we expect them to last at least as long as the engine." Well yes,  but it's not really very reassuring when you think about it ...
Few things will not succumb at some stage fatigue, nearly all many man-made objects eventually fail. Provided that happens after the owner has received good service from it then that is acceptable, of course it is debatable how long good service needs to be….

Paul_Smith
www.corridori.co.uk

gonzo

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #26 on: 20 June, 2008, 12:15:12 pm »
Few things will not succumb at some stage fatigue, nearly all many man-made objects eventually fail. Provided that happens after the owner has received good service from it then that is acceptable, of course it is debatable how long good service needs to be….

That's the nice thing about Ti; if you fatigue it at low levels, it will never break due to it's SN curve shape.

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #27 on: 20 June, 2008, 12:21:01 pm »
I am very happy with my Zerofour from Matt Gibbons in Hampshire- personal fit - careful attention to what I asked for.

Did you just buy the frame or did they build a complete bike for you?

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #28 on: 20 June, 2008, 12:26:41 pm »
OT:
This reminds of a story from when cam-belts were still Quite a New Thing in motor cars.
A friend asked VW how long the belt would last before snapping:
"Oh don't worry sir, we expect them to last at least as long as the engine."

I think, in practise, all cam belts last ever so slightly less than the engine  ;)

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #29 on: 20 June, 2008, 01:50:55 pm »
OT:
This reminds of a story from when cam-belts were still Quite a New Thing in motor cars.
A friend asked VW how long the belt would last before snapping:
"Oh don't worry sir, we expect them to last at least as long as the engine."

I think, in practise, all cam belts last ever so slightly less than the engine  ;)
Yes, that was the point :D

(although before the Vroom-pedants arrive, some engines have valves that won't kill each-other without the cambelt to keep the peace. But the VW engine in question was not designed thusly.)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #30 on: 22 June, 2008, 10:27:39 am »


From Thorn Audax Mk3 brochure - grain of truth or total BS?
A load of FUD I think
Quote

Titanium frames are fairly light, they
ride very well
This is correct.  They aren't magically super light but are just a bit lighter than the equivalent in steel.
Quote
but it is extremely
expensive to have
 the required fittings
This is not my experience.  And there are several custom Ti makers now how could add whatever fitting you like
Quote
and furthermore, all titanium frames
that we have known, have also broken!
This is frankly rediculous.  All frame materials can and do break.  For instance, Chris Hopkinson when he did RAAM had a failure in his Ti Lightspeed Blade.  Steel for instance, SJS made someone I know an "indestructible" frame, a single but with tandem tubing.  They broke it in a few weeks
Quote
It is usually impossible to repair a
titanium frame.
I've not tried this yet but it seems a bit far reaching to say it is "impossible"
I have an old 531 frame in the garage which would be nice to repair but it is not economically viable.  Perhaps that is what they mean?  But surely that applies to any frame.  Another point that SJS sometimes make in their sales blurb is that if you are touring in the wilds somewhere steel can always be welded back whereas Al and Ti requires special gear.  Fairy nuff to that point- if you are going to be crossing Canada or something
Quote
Perhaps there are some
titanium frames, being made today, or
which may be made in the future, that won’t break... but we
doubt it.
I doubt it too.  This is an irrelevant point
Quote
We certainly wouldn’t want to risk such a huge sum
of money
If you compare the price of a  Thorn with a  Ti Condor then there isn't much in it.  It is not a "huge sum" in the scale of bike buying.  A steel frame that is "almost" as good as a Ti frame will cost almost the same amount
Quote
when steel is almost as light,
almost....
Quote
much more durable
Hmm, I would say that Ti is more durable than steel.  If steel is properly cared for it will last a lifetime.  If it isn't it will fall to bits in a few years.  Ti copes better with abuse.
Quote
(and could be easily repaired if necessary),

Agree, it is easier to repair
Quote
rides better,
No it doesn't.  I have a Al, steel and Ti bike.  The ride quality of the Ti bike is best. Most people I've talked to agree that Carbon and Ti bikes give the best ride, then Steel with Al last.
This is assuming that all other things are equal like the bike fitting.



Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #31 on: 22 June, 2008, 11:18:48 pm »
This is all brilliant, thanks everyone.

Looks like I've got a bit more looking around to do before I commit.
Rust never sleeps

onb

  • Between jobs at present
Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #32 on: 23 June, 2008, 03:15:31 pm »
This is all brilliant, thanks everyone.

Looks like I've got a bit more looking around to do before I commit.

Have been looking myself sunday bicycles seem gvfm.
.

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #33 on: 30 June, 2008, 04:14:31 pm »
I had a session at Cyclefit last week and they are very keen on Serottas.

Still, at £2600 for frame and fork I think I too would be keen to sell them.
Rust never sleeps

annie

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #34 on: 30 June, 2008, 04:15:46 pm »
This is all brilliant, thanks everyone.

Looks like I've got a bit more looking around to do before I commit.

Have been looking myself sunday bicycles seem gvfm.

 :thumbsup:  I can vouch for that.

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #35 on: 01 July, 2008, 09:04:54 am »
I had a session at Cyclefit last week and they are very keen on Serottas.

Still, at £2600 for frame and fork I think I too would be keen to sell them.

I have just bought a Serotta from a guy that works at Cyclefit! It was a lugged steel one though I agree they love their Serottas - he had three of his own. :o

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #36 on: 01 July, 2008, 09:51:17 am »
Well you would if you could get them for trade price!

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #37 on: 01 July, 2008, 12:23:12 pm »
Well you would if you could get them for trade price!

As the owner of a couple of Serottas, you have to understand why they are better than other Ti or carbon bikes. Their attention to detail is fanatical and they can tailor the bike to your preferences. Of course this comes at a price and I'm thinking of getting a September for winter stuff. Serotta don't do mudguards etc except as an addition, they are more custom road type bikes. VN get a good press as do Burls and ZeroFour

onb

  • Between jobs at present
Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #38 on: 01 July, 2008, 12:33:26 pm »
I had a trip over to Spa cycles yesterday  (I could have spent a week there what a great place no hip hop in the backgound bits of bike and wheel all over the place grand) I asked about the sunday bikes I had rung about and next thing one is being thrust at me with instructions to take it for a ride ,I mean they had never seen me before or anything and they give me £1600 worth of bike to ride away .Had a quick spin ,struggled with ShimaNO shifters ,I always end up braking at the same time I hit the shifter must be my small hands. Anyway my mind is made up all I have to do is convince SWMBO :o
.

Dodge

  • Monsieur Escargot
  • Velo Club L'Escargot - we're great at going slow!!
    • Velo Club L'Escargot - Ultra Distance Cycling Club
Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #39 on: 01 July, 2008, 04:49:43 pm »
onb, you will NOT regret it!  I love my Sunday to bits!  It is a fabulous bike.

I've ridden steel, carbon and aluminium and must admit I prefer the Ti out of them all, but the steel was pretty good (and not much heavier), the carbon was also good (but not as comfortable when all day) and well aluminium I did find a little harsh (but good for racing on)...horses for courses I guess.

Enjoy!
Velo Club L'Escargot - we're great at going slow - steady as she goes Captain :) - http://www.racingsnails.cc

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #40 on: 01 July, 2008, 04:50:19 pm »
'Course, Santana make titanium tandems... :p
Getting there...

groucho

  • Humph!!
Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #41 on: 02 July, 2008, 04:29:11 pm »
Marvellous stuff, everyone!

I shall be making a detour to Macclesfield (Sundays) next week on the way back from Miss groucho's graduation in Manchester!

When september ends? Is this a song?
Faith, hope and gluttony.........

gonzo

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #42 on: 02 July, 2008, 05:00:14 pm »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/vLSUdF2d_uI&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/vLSUdF2d_uI&rel=1</a>

Top tune!

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #43 on: 03 July, 2008, 09:34:27 am »
Hatler

If I were you, I would take a trip to Bike+ and have a try out of the van Nicholas'.  Paul is very good to talk too and he isn't a high pressure salesman, which I found with some of the other firms (like Enigma).  Tou may find that you fall in love with a bike - so leave your credit cards at home on the first visit.

Even if you don't buy anything, you'll get a good cup of tea and a natter!   ;D
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

gonzo

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #44 on: 03 July, 2008, 10:12:53 am »
If I were you, I would take a trip to Bike+ and have a try out of the van Nicholas'.  Paul is very good to talk too and he isn't a high pressure salesman, which I found with some of the other firms (like Enigma).

To be fair, I advised a friend that Enigma bikes were awesome and so he phoned up to have a chat with Jim (who I happen to know is unfeasibly busy!) 5 minutes into the conversation he mentioned that he wouldn't be buying for several years. Jim was quite happy to carry on chatting to him.

Your best bet is to visit your local places, try out the bikes then make your decision. As has been previously established; not all titanium frames are created equal.

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #45 on: 03 July, 2008, 11:15:41 am »
I would be quite surprised if there is much if any difference between my ti XACd bikes (I have 2) and Sunday or Van Nicholas.  One day I'll have to try and get a ride on one to compare. A lot of it will be down to geometry rather than tubing.

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #46 on: 03 July, 2008, 11:21:37 am »
A lot of it will be down to geometry rather than tubing.


Yup. The two nicest handling bikes I have are an Omega Ti and low-end Columbus winter training frame.

gonzo

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #47 on: 03 July, 2008, 11:26:42 am »
My old Ti Omega was utterly comfortable and had an armchair like ride.

The new Enigma is much stiffer and feels like a slightly relaxed thoroughbred race bike.

The geometry is nearly identical. Every tube on the Enigma changes shape along its length (quite a lot) to optimise whereas the Omega was all pretty much the same shape down its length.

As I say, the best bet is just to ride one then you'll see what I mean.

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #48 on: 03 July, 2008, 11:29:13 am »
If I were you, I would take a trip to Bike+ and have a try out of the van Nicholas'.  Paul is very good to talk too and he isn't a high pressure salesman, which I found with some of the other firms (like Enigma).

To be fair, I advised a friend that Enigma bikes were awesome and so he phoned up to have a chat with Jim (who I happen to know is unfeasibly busy!) 5 minutes into the conversation he mentioned that he wouldn't be buying for several years. Jim was quite happy to carry on chatting to him.



Ah - but is his tea as good...  ;) ;D
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

gonzo

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #49 on: 03 July, 2008, 11:31:27 am »
Ah - but is his tea as good...  ;) ;D

Don't know, I've not tried both!

Did you get the offer of sandwiches? ;)

This seems like the best way to decide on who to get the bike from. Call around. Tell them that you shall choose the bike based on the food you get when discussing it and you will be in between 11-12 tomorrow. Try lots of different places!

*edit - I once judged best trade stall at a show ground type event. I made it clear that my criteria was based on food and drink. That was a seriously fun day!