Poll

Why did you DNF on LEL 2017

Weather
3 (8.8%)
Accident
3 (8.8%)
Achilles/knees
7 (20.6%)
Saddle sores
1 (2.9%)
Back/shoulder
1 (2.9%)
Schermer's neck
1 (2.9%)
Other physiological
10 (29.4%)
Cleats and shoes
0 (0%)
Drivetrain pedals/chain/gears
0 (0%)
Wheels/tyres
0 (0%)
Frame/seat/seatpost etc
2 (5.9%)
Lights or other electrical equipment
0 (0%)
Other mechanical
0 (0%)
Just had enough
3 (8.8%)
Not prepared or fit enough
3 (8.8%)

Total Members Voted: 30

Author Topic: [LEL17] LEL DNF reasons poll  (Read 13104 times)

[LEL17] LEL DNF reasons poll
« on: 05 August, 2017, 05:43:20 pm »
Thinking of setting up a poll to sample DNF reasons. Originally had the following categories but can only have 5 options for a poll.

Achilles; knees; saddle sores; back; shoulders; Schermer's neck; wrist/hand; other physiological problems.

Cleats; shoes; clothing problems; wheels; chain; gears; frames; seat&posts; lights; other mechanicals.


Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #1 on: 05 August, 2017, 05:44:46 pm »
Just spotted the new poll and add poll buttons - Doh.

And on checking it there is a maximum of 5 options, here goes anyway.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #2 on: 05 August, 2017, 05:45:50 pm »
Weather is the major factor. Temperatures and rain are both big DNF drivers.

Many folk limit their riding speed on narrow corners with poor sightlines and on crap surfaces. LEL had plenty of those, particularly in the North. That makes it difficult to regain lost time.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #3 on: 05 August, 2017, 05:48:38 pm »
Just spotted the new poll button - Doh.

And on checking it there is a maximum of 5 options - not really enough to cover all the options.

I believe you can add options; I think I did with one of my 'food' polls.

Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #4 on: 05 August, 2017, 05:55:07 pm »
I was simply out of time. Nowt wrong with me or the bike, just didn't fancy continuing to controls that would be firmly closed. I can imagine this is a common reason.

Brakeless

  • Brakeless
Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #5 on: 05 August, 2017, 05:56:43 pm »
I'd say physically unprepared is one of the main reasons as well as not having the mental experience of previous tough situations to call on.

Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #6 on: 05 August, 2017, 05:59:18 pm »
Thanks for the replies, I think it is now set up OK.

Brakeless

  • Brakeless
Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #7 on: 05 August, 2017, 06:01:26 pm »
Thanks for the replies, I think it is now set up OK.

You don't think anyone dropped out because they weren't fit enough ?

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #8 on: 05 August, 2017, 06:09:49 pm »
Maybe you should stratify/classify categories as in body, mind, bike, weather, other...

Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #9 on: 05 August, 2017, 08:06:57 pm »
This was my first ever audax event. I've done a few 300km rides before but never done any multi day events. I put an enormous amount of training into the event and dropped 8kg.

I completed the ride in approx 110 hours (stopping for around 7 hours each night - from 12am to 7am). I was riding solo (no drafting) most of the way after my riding partner was forced to pull out due to injury at Barnard Castle (heading north). I was on my own throughout days 3 and 4 against the headwinds.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up other than my impressions based on what I observed / heard, but it seemed to me that there were too many people who had simply underestimated the task in hand and who hadn't done enough training.

Of course, many DNFd due to mechanicals, injury and illness, but my guess is that there were a lot of people who were never going to finish because they hadn't trained and hadn't appreciated how tough it is.

You definitely need mental strength, but that will only get you so far. You also need proper planning and very good fitness.

I noticed a lot of riders (especially from abroad) who looked massively underprepared and it seemed obvious just by watching them at the end of day 1 that they stood little chance of finishing.

If there had been qualifying conditions, I almost certainly wouldn't have qualified and I'd have missed out on this incredible experience.

However, I'm inclined to think that there should be a qualification criteria. It's a real shame that serious and experienced audax riders didn't get a place, whereas a significant number of people at the start line were almost certain to DNF from the start.

That's just my view. YMMV.

Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #10 on: 05 August, 2017, 09:23:35 pm »
I've posted this on Facebook:

"I think this poll is a good idea in principle, but it isn't that simple.
A proper survey would need to be completed and sent out to finishers and non finishers alike which can be analysed to find out more.
For example someone may think they didn't complete because of the weather, but the reality may be lack of experience/ inadequate preparation.
We all had the same weather (pretty much)."

John

mmmmartin

  • BPB 1/1: PBP 0/1
    • FNRttC
Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #11 on: 05 August, 2017, 09:38:13 pm »
However, I'm inclined to think that there should be a qualification criteria.
Ain't gonna happen. Danial won't wear it. End. Of.
If you want a guarantee to get a place, volunteer. If you're not prepared to put something back into your sport, take up another sport.
Besides, it wouldn't be audacious if success were guaranteed.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #12 on: 05 August, 2017, 09:42:05 pm »
Luckily, Audax isn't a sport.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #13 on: 05 August, 2017, 09:49:56 pm »
However, I'm inclined to think that there should be a qualification criteria.
Ain't gonna happen. Danial won't wear it. End. Of.
If you want a guarantee to get a place, volunteer. If you're not prepared to put something back into your sport, take up another sport.

I understand that entirely.

I'm not suggesting this in order to guarantee myself a place, far from it.

I'm simply observing that there were people who looked as though they had no chance at all of making it round. Unfortunately, their participation meant that others who may well have completed the ride were deprived a place.

So I think there's a case to be made for pre-qualification even though that would have meant that people like me would not have qualified for a place.

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #14 on: 05 August, 2017, 10:29:42 pm »
My seatpost snapped.  I had 3.5 hours in hand at the time but it was 10:30pm at night and no bike shops were open.  As it was the latter stages of the event a less experienced / equipped mechanic had taken over at Thirsk

I've never had a seatpost snapped before.  I don't recall it as a reason from anyone else on another ride.  Before the ride I changed/fixed/checked almost everything else on my bike

The bike is 6 years old and the post came with the bike

Nothing last forever, it had to fail some time

Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #15 on: 05 August, 2017, 10:30:45 pm »
^^^^^^ The only way to ensure someone can finish a 1400 is to ride a 1400!

Those folk you refer to that look as though they could not finish have probably ridden PBP and might have ridden LEL last time. I would not be surprised to learn they have ridden a 600 this season. So having to ride a 600 would have made no difference. Most I have ridden this season was 400 and have only completed 1x200, 1x300 and 1x400. Still managed to complete LEL.

You will always have folk capable of completing an event deprived of an entry due to number restrictions. Perhaps we should reward loyalty and service to AUK by setting a minimum of 5yr membership before allowing folk to ride. Or perhaps we should leave such matters as entry requirements to those organising the event and heed the comments of mmmmartin above.

Congratulations on completing and hope you enjoy more audaxes and get to know a few of those folk who may not look like Chris Froome but have the ability to ride a bike for a long time.

Ben T

Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #16 on: 05 August, 2017, 10:41:26 pm »
Can't really blame people that packed for depriving people of a place. The deprived person may have also packed. More likely in fact as they didn't want it enough to enter in time. I was deprived of a place but to be fair I probably would have lost my sense of humour and unceremoniously packed.


Snapped seat post:I have night mares about this happening and the sharp bit that's left causing an agonising injury! That didn't happen I hope?! Did it snap clean through, what happened to the saddle, did you fall off?

Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #17 on: 05 August, 2017, 11:06:32 pm »
Can't really blame people that packed for depriving people of a place. The deprived person may have also packed. More likely in fact as they didn't want it enough to enter in time. I was deprived of a place but to be fair I probably would have lost my sense of humour and unceremoniously packed.

I'm not blaming those who packed. I'm just saying that there were some people who, it was plain to see, were never ever going to get round.

Not many, but some. You could see that some people didn't stand a chance of completing.

Of course, that doesn't mean an experienced randonneur might not also have packed.

But if you've done, say, a 400km and 600km ride, then it shows you have at least a realistic chance of completing.

As I say, if there has been such a condition, I would not have qualified.

So I'm not speaking as an experienced randonneur. Far from it.

dod

Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #18 on: 05 August, 2017, 11:17:06 pm »
After seeing and hearing some of the stories of the 'underprepared' folk, what they lacked in Audax experience they made up for (in spades) with perseverance and determination. It is those stories that the volunteers and the general public who stumbled on this event will be inspired to tell their friends, not the stories about the suitably fit lads who cruised round comparing their finishing times and average threshold power numbers.

I think one of the main attractions of LEL is the completely open entry system, and one of the best aspects is that the only way to guarantee entry to one edition is to volunteer in the previous edition, thus requiring a genuine level of commitment that also helps keep the event running.

Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #19 on: 05 August, 2017, 11:22:20 pm »
^^^^^^ The only way to ensure someone can finish a 1400 is to ride a 1400!

Those folk you refer to that look as though they could not finish have probably ridden PBP and might have ridden LEL last time. I would not be surprised to learn they have ridden a 600 this season. So having to ride a 600 would have made no difference. Most I have ridden this season was 400 and have only completed 1x200, 1x300 and 1x400. Still managed to complete LEL.

I'm realistic enough to understand that some people are capable of riding slowly but still able to make it round.

But there were people visibly suffering by the time they reached Pocklington or Thirsk. Those people had clearly underestimated the challenge.

The fact is that the DNF rate was significantly higher than last time round and yet conditions were broadly the same (as far as I'm aware).

I'm just wondering if the reason for that is because, due to its fantastic reputation and popularity, people sign up without realising just how difficult it is.

dod

Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #20 on: 05 August, 2017, 11:25:06 pm »


I'm not blaming those who packed. I'm just saying that there were some people who, it was plain to see, were never ever going to get round.

Not many, but some. You could see that some people didn't stand a chance of completing.

[/quote]

You need to be clear about what you mean by 'completing' - is that within 100 hours, within 117 hours, or just getting back to Loughton before everyone has packed up and left? I can think of several people I saw during the ride that would fit in the 'they will never get round' category, but they still arrived at the finish even if they were 24 hours late.

Having spent today reading a lot of comments on here and Facebook, I think it's interesting that there seems to be more of a 'sportive' approach to time limits creeping in, i.e. you shouldn't be allowed to start if others reckon you won't make a time cut. I've always found Audax to be much more open-minded, where you are welcome to turn up and try, and if you miss the time cutoff then it's only a bike ride and the roads are still there to be travelled.

Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #21 on: 06 August, 2017, 12:05:08 am »
I selected 'weather' as my DNF reason as it was the root cause, with a supporting role from crap surfaces. Being constantly soaked from Barnard Castle meant by Innerleithan I was very cold, shiverring and had aches in my back and shoulder. The bike was suffering in sympathy so I quit whilst I could get back to relations in Edinburgh relatively easily rather than grind to a halt somewhere on the North York moors. I might have reovered, I might have got round, but for better or worse I made the call.

I'm no novice and had prepared as well for this as for my successful PBP - 100, 150, 2 x 200, 300, 400 etc., Trainer Road plan, additional core and flexibility work, watching the diet, new chain, brake blocks, rear tyre, everything on the bike stripped, cleaned, greased and correctly torqued followed by four shakedown rides, but sometimes knowing when to stop is as important as knowing when to keep going. I don't like quitting, but continuing when this would increase the risk of harm to yourself and/or to others makes no sense. LEL is a great challenge but it isn't a competitive sport, no sponsors or teams to let down, no prizes or money at stake. I don't think I deprived someone of a place and I hope to be back. Chapeau to all who started and congrats to the those who made it to the end.

Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #22 on: 06 August, 2017, 06:44:58 am »
Never mind DNF, I DNS'd due to a chronic knee injury , a previously ruptured quad tendon, that flared up during a training ride at the end of May. While I was agonising (literally and figuratively 😀) whether to carry on training, the thought I may be depriving someone of a place did weigh heavily and ultimately I pulled out at the beginning of June. This was the right decision. My number, AA12, did not get reallocated (I'm told) but perhaps another rider got in with a different number.

I then volunteered at Louth and have learned loads, in addition to the ride plan I had formulated prior to withdrawal. Personally, if I do take on this challenge in 2021 I want myself and my bike prep to be the best I can make it - there will always be unforeseen circumstances but I don't want to bomb out for a foreseeable (and so realistically) avoidable reason

Now, to get this knee sorted......... 😉

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #23 on: 06 August, 2017, 07:38:23 am »
Having spent today reading a lot of comments on here and Facebook, I think it's interesting that there seems to be more of a 'sportive' approach to time limits creeping in, i.e. you shouldn't be allowed to start if others reckon you won't make a time cut. I've always found Audax to be much more open-minded, where you are welcome to turn up and try, and if you miss the time cutoff then it's only a bike ride and the roads are still there to be travelled.

I don't know what has been said on Bacefook but historically DNF rates have always been seen as important. It isn't a new thing.

Yes, every rider is taking part in their own event but national organisations have usually done their level best to help riders reach the arrivee in time to collect their well-deserved congratulations and medals. There are many instances at PBP where new randonneuring countries had high DNF rates (e.g. the USA had half their group DNF decades ago, Japan similarly a bit later) and they made deliberate changes to qualifying routes and other aspects to increase finish rates. Subsequent contingents were impressive with their preparation and their resolve to finish, even through the worst conditions.

Audax has been described as an attempt to create the perfect cyclist - any distance, any terrain, any weather, unstoppable!
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: LEL DNF reasons poll
« Reply #24 on: 06 August, 2017, 07:47:49 am »
I've selected 'other physiological' as my DNF reason mainly due to the inability to eat anything at Pocklington (Northbound) and having had nothing at Louth due to the lack of food available. However I was carrying sweets etc as bonk rations but they didn't help and a few days of reflection have now seen me include dehydration as a reason for this, which is unusual for me given that I've had years of not drinking a lot on rides and have completed PBPx2 and LEL(2009 edition) as well as a number of SRs.
I can also add seatpost issues to this as it slipped down and I ended up stripping the bolt trying to reseat it leaving it about 3-4cms lower than normal. The mobile mechanics couldn't help and I chose to ride on but this unusual position caused contact point issues which can best be described as 'sitting on razor blades'.
This combination of issues and for once a sensible chat with myself at the Pocklington control( ???) saw me make a DNF choice before things became really stupid.
Do I worry about 'depriving' someone else, no, as even the best prepared entrants can have unforeseen issues that force a DNF. Well done to all that did finish and all the best to everyone else with the aches and pains. :thumbsup: