Author Topic: Factual errors in songs.  (Read 48091 times)

Paul

  • L'enfer, c'est les autos.
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #150 on: 09 November, 2019, 08:09:20 pm »
I think you’ll find, Banananarama, that even if love - of any degree - were  classed as an offence, only the jury could find you guilty. The Judge’s jurisdiction in that situation would be limited to sentencing.

This thread has a 100% "whoosh" factor so far as I am concerned. But is it not possible for a judge to instruct a jury towards a particular verdict? I know as little about law as I do popular beat combos, so I'm perfectly happy to be subject to correction. As long as it doesn't hurt.

https://www.thejusticegap.com/not-only-a-right-but-a-duty-a-history-of-perverse-verdicts/
What's so funny about peace, love and understanding?

Paul

  • L'enfer, c'est les autos.
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #151 on: 09 November, 2019, 08:11:07 pm »
Not all offences are tried by a jury, thobut...
I know, which is why I said “in that situation”.
What's so funny about peace, love and understanding?

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #152 on: 10 November, 2019, 12:04:23 am »
That's even worse than Toto.
Quote
Sure as kilimanjaro rises like olympus above the serengeti
I seek to cure whats deep inside, frightened of this thing that Ive become

Interesting thing I learned about this song recently is that it's written from the perspective of a naive white boy who's never been to Africa and has an impression based entirely on what he's read in various works of fiction.  The factual error is very much part of the point.  (The music video plays on this theme.)

Which make it so much less jarring to hear...

Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #153 on: 10 November, 2019, 07:55:05 pm »
I think you’ll find, Banananarama, that even if love - of any degree - were  classed as an offence, only the jury could find you guilty. The Judge’s jurisdiction in that situation would be limited to sentencing.

This thread has a 100% "whoosh" factor so far as I am concerned. But is it not possible for a judge to instruct a jury towards a particular verdict? I know as little about law as I do popular beat combos, so I'm perfectly happy to be subject to correction. As long as it doesn't hurt.

The case has already been examined by The Secret Barrister on Twitter, I reproduce his arguments below:

Quote
Firstly, Bananarama erroneously assume that the judge AND the jury are judging the merits of the defence. This is simply not true. Judges in Crown Courts, even Courts of Love, are judges of law alone. The verdict is for the jury.

The ONLY way this would stand up to scrutiny is if the judge had ruled, as a matter of law, that a particular defence was not available, and directed the jury in such terms. Absent further detail, we cannot assume that this happened.

Secondly, the existence of a jury indicates that there is a contested trial to determine guilt. HOWEVER...

...Bananarama confess - openly - that they are not only guilty, but guilty as a girl can be (by which they are presumably accepting a degree of culpability placing them at the top of the range of the highest category on the relevant Sentencing Guideline).

In such circumstances, it is nonsensical for them to express surprise or complaint at the jury rejecting their “plea” (by which they presumably mean defence). They are to blame for admitting guilt in front of the jury and for wasting scarce court resources on a needless trial.

If Bananarama simply wanted to contest the *factual basis* of their admitted guilt, then they should be having a trial of issue (“Newton hearing”) in front of a judge alone. Their advocate should have advised them as such. This is plainly negligent.

In any event, there are live criminal proceedings and Bananarama are imploring the key witness (“only you can set me free”) to intervene to prevent the consequences of their admitted criminality. Bananarama are shamelessly attempting to pervert the course of justice.

In these circumstances, it is frankly unsurprising that, at the start of the song, Bananarama are “locked in a prison cell”. The judge was clearly right to withhold bail given the substantial grounds for believing that Bananarama would interfere with witnesses if granted bail.

In practical terms, Bananarama would be properly advised to spend less time imploring the complainant to help them, and seek advice on the merits of an appeal against conviction. That they haven’t is almost certainly down to savage legal aid cuts depriving them of representation.

My view, for what it’s worth, is that such an appeal would have merit. Because, and I have reread ALL my law books to make sure I’m right on this, there is NO criminal offence in England and Wales of “love in the first degree.” This is simply a common tabloid misconception.

That the CPS charged this case at all is a damning indictment on its chronic lack of resources and obsession with targets above all else. Far better, I would advise, to concede the appeal and bring new charges for the perverting the course of justice (above).

In conclusion, nothing about this Bananarama trial sits right with me. While we must be calm and not jump to conclusions without knowing the full facts, I am deeply troubled that something has gone badly wrong. Or that Bananarama’s legal research is not what it should be.


Paul

  • L'enfer, c'est les autos.
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #154 on: 10 November, 2019, 10:29:28 pm »
 ;D
What's so funny about peace, love and understanding?

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #155 on: 11 November, 2019, 02:04:10 am »
This ^^^^
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #156 on: 11 November, 2019, 11:48:30 am »
He's also done 'I shot the Sheriff"

  https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/974243638921310209

"Murder on the Dance Floor"

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/974251533931106304

"I Fought the Law"

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/974255098095374336

and "Delilah"

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/974259595651813376 ("he is subject to a minimum term of at least 25 years on his life sentence. And rightly so.")

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #157 on: 12 November, 2019, 05:38:37 pm »
ISTR that at Live Aid, David Bowie shortened his appearance to make way for the video of starving children that had been created to accompany The Cars' "Drive". When the video ended the cameras went to Bowie, in the interview suite, who appeared to have tears in his eyes.  This answers the question he had posed a decade earlier in 'Young Americans'.
Why should anybody steal a watch when they can steal a bicycle?

Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #158 on: 13 November, 2019, 01:36:23 pm »
If Spiral/Engranages is owt to go by, the Judge in France acts as the prosecutor...
Haggerty F, Haggerty R, Tomkins, Noble, Carrick, Robson, Crapper, Dewhurst, Macintyre, Treadmore, Davitt.

Paul

  • L'enfer, c'est les autos.
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #159 on: 13 November, 2019, 01:51:37 pm »
Different system. They use an inquisitorial method. And love would never be an offence in France anyway.
What's so funny about peace, love and understanding?

Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #160 on: 14 November, 2019, 08:32:59 am »
another Chris de Burgh (just for rower 40)

A Spaceman came travelling
In his ship from afar
Twas light years of time
Since his mission did start

Light years are distance thicko!
another one from the legend that is CdB:

Richard the Lionheart never recaptured Jersualem from Saladin's armies.

(great song, though!)

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #161 on: 14 November, 2019, 03:19:25 pm »

another one from the legend that is CdB:

Richard the Lionheart never recaptured Jersualem from Saladin's armies.

(great song, though!)

And yet another of his songs, Revolution, refers to "men coming down from the valleys", which may explain why he failed Geography at school.
Why should anybody steal a watch when they can steal a bicycle?

Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #162 on: 14 November, 2019, 03:22:27 pm »
A favourite tune of mine - allegedly punk but I'm not convinced - is 'Saturday Night Beneath the Plastic Palm Trees' by the 'Leyton Buzzards'.
This relates, very vividly, the escapades of young people in the 70s visiting The Tottenham Palais. Wot is where I used to take young ladies of my acquaintance for a jolly night out. (And my gran lived in Leighton Buzzard).

Now, for reasons (of poetic consistently I assume) it refers to Tottenham Hale Station as being the nearest transport hub.
Sorry pals - it was most definitely Seven Sisters Station.
And wots more the Palais De Dance was on Tottenham High Road, not Seven Sisters Road.
But it's still a bangin' toon.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk

Too many angry people - breathe & relax.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #163 on: 19 November, 2019, 08:18:53 pm »
DJ Random has just played me the Robert Calvert track "Bugatti".  Which references Isadora Duncan, well-known for being strangled when her scarf became entangled the rear wheel of an Amilcar.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #164 on: 20 November, 2019, 11:31:22 am »
It may be similar to what she cried out.......

Steph

  • Fast. Fast and bulbous. But fluffy.
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #165 on: 25 November, 2019, 04:37:43 pm »
Mr Calvert delivered a wonderful track called The Song of the Gremlin. It was delivered in powerful and disturbing style by Arthur Brown.

Bob/Arthur: they are called ailerons, not "airelons"
Mae angen arnaf i byw, a fe fydda'i

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #166 on: 25 November, 2019, 05:17:03 pm »

another one from the legend that is CdB:

Richard the Lionheart never recaptured Jersualem from Saladin's armies.

(great song, though!)

And yet another of his songs, Revolution, refers to "men coming down from the valleys", which may explain why he failed Geography at school.


I'm pretty sure that if you go to them there Himalayas you'll find some valleys at very high altitudes.  Not all valleys are at sea-level :)
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Pingu

  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
  • Mrs Pingu's domestique
    • the Igloo
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #167 on: 10 March, 2020, 09:59:50 am »
I don't believe Peter Gabriel saw an eagle on Solsbury Hill.

Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #168 on: 10 March, 2020, 11:09:41 am »
Durham Town (The Leavin')  by Roger Whittaker

You won't be sitting on the banks of the Tyne in Durham City

(for a mackem like me it's an annoying one.)

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #169 on: 10 March, 2020, 04:10:56 pm »
Dear Elton (or, more to the point, Bernie): If something, even if it's your best friend, is floating, it's unlikely to be doing so at the bottom of a glass, even on a Saturday night.
Why should anybody steal a watch when they can steal a bicycle?

Paul

  • L'enfer, c'est les autos.
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #170 on: 22 December, 2020, 10:48:10 pm »
We all assume that George was deploying artistic licence when he sang “Last Christmas, I gave you my heart,” because it’s not a song about organ donation.

But what’s this? In the very next line we’re told “But the very next day, you gave it away.”

That just doesn’t work if you’re using ‘heart’ to mean love. The ungrateful recipient of George’s love can’t just pass his love on to someone else.

And it gets curiouser; next the (now heartless, remember) George says “This year, to save me from tears, I’ll give it to someone special.”

I think we have to consider the possibility that George actually gave his heart to B, who (without consent) within 24 hours transferred the heart to C. Then, somehow (no details are provided) in the intervening 12 months, George retrieved his heart and - having learned precisely nothing from the previous Yuletide’s misappropriation - determines to repeat the catastrophe with a new as yet unidentified host (D).

Is it possible that this entire shambles arises from the fact that George couldn’t be bothered to come up with a better rhyme than ‘day’ and ‘away’?

I suppose it might be an edible heart. That of a lamb or a chicken, perhaps. Funny song though, if that’s the case.
What's so funny about peace, love and understanding?

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #171 on: 23 December, 2020, 09:24:36 am »
I don't believe Peter Gabriel saw an eagle on Solsbury Hill.

No one ever saw any members of the Sialia genus anywhere near the Kent coast either. Not unless their migration had gone very badly wrong.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #172 on: 23 December, 2020, 11:26:35 am »
I don't believe Peter Gabriel saw an eagle on Solsbury Hill.

No one ever saw any members of the Sialia genus anywhere near the Kent coast either. Not unless their migration had gone very badly wrong.

(Googles)

(Snorts Brown Drink through nose)
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #173 on: 23 December, 2020, 12:24:48 pm »
We all assume that George was deploying artistic licence when he sang “Last Christmas, I gave you my heart,” because it’s not a song about organ donation.

But what’s this? In the very next line we’re told “But the very next day, you gave it away.”

That just doesn’t work if you’re using ‘heart’ to mean love. The ungrateful recipient of George’s love can’t just pass his love on to someone else.

And it gets curiouser; next the (now heartless, remember) George says “This year, to save me from tears, I’ll give it to someone special.”

I think we have to consider the possibility that George actually gave his heart to B, who (without consent) within 24 hours transferred the heart to C. Then, somehow (no details are provided) in the intervening 12 months, George retrieved his heart and - having learned precisely nothing from the previous Yuletide’s misappropriation - determines to repeat the catastrophe with a new as yet unidentified host (D).

Is it possible that this entire shambles arises from the fact that George couldn’t be bothered to come up with a better rhyme than ‘day’ and ‘away’?

I suppose it might be an edible heart. That of a lamb or a chicken, perhaps. Funny song though, if that’s the case.

This post had better not count for Whamageddon  purposes.   >:(

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #174 on: 23 December, 2020, 02:38:43 pm »
I don't believe Peter Gabriel saw an eagle on Solsbury Hill.

No one ever saw any members of the Sialia genus anywhere near the Kent coast either. Not unless their migration had gone very badly wrong.

Maybe they had escaped from a lorry parked up at Manston
Why should anybody steal a watch when they can steal a bicycle?