Dopeage

[vorsprung]

Everyone wants an easy ride around their favourite event.  But how?  Training takes a long time and is REALLY DIFFICULT

If only there was an easier way.  My latest blog entry is about the various vitamins and snake oils I've tried to make riding events easy

[andygates]

  Ephedrine is good.

[mattc]

I notice there's no entry for
healthy balanced diet.

I recall something like Mens Health recommending fresh fruit:
They're like handy all-in-one multi-vitamin tablets!

[Ian H]

I find that if I ride my bike oftener than once a fortnight I get quite fit. Caffeine, at least as I take it, in coffee, has no effect that I notice. Food in slightly greater quantities seems to work pretty well. I've heard stories that ibrupofen is potentially dangerous when you're dehydrated - as, typically, during a hard cycling event.

[DrMekon]

Interesting, particularly the link to the story about the PBP guy using.

PS that snap popup links preview thing is awful. It's up there with strobing smilie banner ads for me.

[vorsprung]

Interesting, particularly the link to the story about the PBP guy using.

PS that snap popup links preview thing is awful. It's up there with strobing smilie banner ads for me.

I have turned off the "mShots site previews" feature.  Is that better?
(I wasn't sure if I liked it or not myself, it's on by default)

[Nonsteeler]

Thanks for that - a nice article. Part 2 could be 'post-ride doping' aka mental and physical recovery from long rides. I administer Ibuprofen often after a ride to ease my way into off-bike life after a long ride. To some degree, I find it more difficult to deal with pain/fatigue after a ride. Also I like to adjust my riding if I feel pain/discomfort so I don't use painkillers during a ride.  

Also I am not good with caffeine. On the one hand I have to take large quantities to feel an effect (around 150mg) on the other hand I then become quite edgy, aggressive and my stomach isn't happy either.

Nevertheless I normally carry some caffeine and Ibuprofen with me on longer rides - kind of a last resort plus hopefully a placebo effect of a magic powder and pill. So far I haven't used it as last resort tough -  not sure whether it works.

PS that snap popup links preview thing is awful. It's up there with strobing smilie banner ads for me.

I have turned off the "mShots site previews" feature.  Is that better?
(I wasn't sure if I liked it or not myself, it's on by default)

I agree here with DrMekon.

[DrMekon]

Interesting, particularly the link to the story about the PBP guy using.

PS that snap popup links preview thing is awful. It's up there with strobing smilie banner ads for me.

I have turned off the "mShots site previews" feature.  Is that better?
(I wasn't sure if I liked it or not myself, it's on by default)

Much better! Thanks.

[simonp]

Oh the energy drinks, you should maybe mention glucose + fructose combinations which research has shown to improve energy uptake.


   
   Oxidation of combined ingestion of glucose and fructose during exercise -- Jentjens et al. 96 (4): 1277 -- Journal of Applied Physiology

[Nonsteeler]

Oh the energy drinks, you should maybe mention glucose + fructose combinations which research has shown to improve energy uptake.

      Oxidation of combined ingestion of glucose and fructose during exercise -- Jentjens et al. 96 (4): 1277 -- Journal of Applied Physiology

Interesting. I am not sure if I (fully) understand the article nor what this means in practise for long distance cycling. I need more time... However the study was supported by companies which make their money with glucose/fructose products. Also at the end of the article it says: 'The costs of publication of this article were defrayed in part by the payment of page charges. The article must therefore be hereby marked "advertisement" in accordance with 18 U.S.C. Section  1734 solely to indicate this fact.' Is this common?

[mattc]

What I took from that was yet another facet of:
eat a variety of stuff [carbs], your body is designed for this.

[vorsprung]

Oh the energy drinks, you should maybe mention glucose + fructose combinations which research has shown to improve energy uptake.


   
   Oxidation of combined ingestion of glucose and fructose during exercise -- Jentjens et al. 96 (4): 1277 -- Journal of Applied Physiology

I am aware of the idea that delivery of carb drink stuff works better if the ingredients are a mixture of different types of sugar

The theory is that fructose, maltodextrine and whatever else are absorbed by different parts of the gut.
So more carbs can be absorbed quicker without overloading your system
It is slightly different to "eat variety of stuff..".  The mixtures are supposedly optimised to gain maximum throughput

There is an energy drink product (that I can't think of the name of) which was popular 3 or 4 years ago that had this as a USP

There is always a problem with assessing products like this
Simonp says they work for him.  Maybe I try them and they don't work for me.  There are no proper studies that ever address how these things work in typical audax conditions.
I don't think it is worth getting too far into the theories behind how this stuff is supposed to work when there is no experimental data available. 

[andygates]

"eat a variety of stuff" sounds a lot like a rejection of the whole sciency thing in favour of a dogmatic attraction to pasta and bananas.

[mattc]

"eat a variety of stuff" sounds a lot like a rejection of the whole sciency thing in favour of a dogmatic attraction to pasta and bananas.

And what's wrong with that?!?   

I love science. The tricky bit is applying it. Would anyone advise riding 600k powered by nothing but glucose/fructose solution? No.

I think you need to balance the science on the micro scale (muscle tissue, enzymes, etc) with the macro (studying caveman diets etc).

So we start with Simon's article [about a precise sugar mix], then we move to Vorsprung's more general facts about different digestive pathways, then we consider eating a variety of different energy sources over the course of a day [the macro approach].  All views are useful; I reckon the best results come from taking a balanced view of all the above.

Eating a mix of pasta and bananas all day would do you pretty well, and probably beats just glucose/fructose. But you can probably improve on it.

</ramble>

[DrMekon]

Oh the energy drinks, you should maybe mention glucose + fructose combinations which research has shown to improve energy uptake.

      Oxidation of combined ingestion of glucose and fructose during exercise -- Jentjens et al. 96 (4): 1277 -- Journal of Applied Physiology

Interesting. I am not sure if I (fully) understand the article nor what this means in practise for long distance cycling. I need more time... However the study was supported by companies which make their money with glucose/fructose products. Also at the end of the article it says: 'The costs of publication of this article were defrayed in part by the payment of page charges. The article must therefore be hereby marked "advertisement" in accordance with 18 U.S.C. Section  1734 solely to indicate this fact.' Is this common?

Some journals make page charges. I'd not come across it in anything other than OA journals until I looked, but it appears a bunch of societies get their journals to do it. It's perfectly normal for the funder to pay the page charges, and from my experience of reviewing for OA journals that make page charges, it won't have made a jot of difference to the review process. That journal looks pretty decent (impact factor of 3.8 ), so the article is likely to have been properly reviewed.

[Riggers]

I don't take them myself, but a friend takes Glucosamine tablets and, he's having a hernia operation soon. He was told to stop taking the Glucosamine at least two weeks before the operation as they can cause bleeding. Now, I for one thought these supplements to aid ones joints were completely natural and had no side affects, but obviously not.

[Greenbank]

Now, I for one thought these supplements to aid ones joints were completely natural and had no side affects, but obviously not.

Think again. Being 'completely natural' isn't any help, arsenic is 'completely natural'. Lots of very nasty stuff is 'completely natural'.

Googling for Glucosamine side effects I find:-

# If you are allergic to shellfish you should consult your physician before using glucosamine products. Glucosamine is derived from shellfish.
# Glucosamine sulfate may increase the risk of developing insulin resistance and could decrease the metabolic actions of insulin. Although glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate are biochemically classed as carbohydrates (sugars), the body is not able to break them down into glucose, so these compounds do not raise blood sugar by providing an additional source of glucose. However, many factors can affect insulin secretion and blood glucose levels in diabetic patients, and we recommend that individuals with diabetes check their blood glucose levels frequently when initiating glucosamine into their regimen.
# High dosages of glucosamine may cause gastric problems, nausea , diarrhea, indigestion, and heartburn. Glucosamine should be taken with meals to help avoid these problems.

[simonp]

At least 3 different mfrs are doing glucose + fructose mixes.

High 5. Sis go. Torq energy. I used to use high 5 but now I'm using Torq.

Carbohydrate needs in moderate intensity exercise are about 1g/minute. The small study I cited suggests this can't be met from glucose alone but can from a mix.

I do feel I ride better on long events. I was riding very well on Sunday and was very careful to drink lots of torq energy. But I am also well trained right now.

[inc]

For those using a power meter I would think it would be reasonably simple to see the total energy requirement in Kj  for a similar previous ride and the various time in zones so also the fat/carb ratio, add on your base metabolic rate and you have the carb intake requirement. Absorption from the gut is very  slow for solids as the power output increases because blood is diverted to the working muscles but good for liquid dissolved  long chain polysaccharides ( maltadextrin) . Solids also increase the liquid intake requirement.

I went to a private presentation by a well respected physiologist a few years ago and caffeine does work at higher workloads, he said their tests had show on average for a 25 mile TT 400mg of caffeine was worth about two minutes for a rider normally taking 60 min. For Audax I have no idea of the effect.

There is a book called " Bicycling Medicine" by Arnie Baker MD. who lists Ergogenic aids their effects and side effects.

 

[mattc]

I went to a private presentation by a well respected physiologist a few years ago and caffeine does work at higher workloads, he said their tests had show on average for a 25 mile TT 400mg of caffeine was worth about two minutes for a rider normally taking 60 min. For Audax I have no idea of the effect.

I've read about the caffeine effect in various places (including the highly respected sports science journal "Cycling Weekly" ). But had no idea it was that large!

My intuition is that it has most effect on shorter term efforts, so I don't plan to use it on longer rides except to stay awake. (It does odd things to me if I take a lot over the course of 20hours.)

I must confess to feeling unease about all stimulants that aren't actually food - there is usually a downside. So far, caffeine doesn't seem to have one at small daily doses.

NicB recently tweeted this:
EnduranceBuzz.com &raquo; Benefits of Caffeine with Endurance Sports
... which seems to say that %fat burning is increased a bit.

[perpetual dan]

Eating a mix of pasta and bananas all day would do you pretty well, and probably beats just glucose/fructose. But you can probably improve on it.

Pasta and banana flapjack?

I've had a fairly bad time on too many pro plus as a reckless youth. Mind you, I've not done more than a 200, and I guess you need more than tea at some point.

[andygates]

The caffeine effect comes in at doses not commonly taken for alertness.  400mg is eight pro-plus.  It's physiological, not just a perk-o-zing thing, and is unaffected by tolerance of the stimulant kick folks get from coffee.

[inc]

The caffeine effect comes in at doses not commonly taken for alertness.  400mg is eight pro-plus.  It's physiological, not just a perk-o-zing thing, and is unaffected by tolerance of the stimulant kick folks get from coffee.

Just Google there are lots of 200mg pills about. In Europe caffeine suppositories are available.

[simonp]

Eating a mix of pasta and bananas all day would do you pretty well, and probably beats just glucose/fructose. But you can probably improve on it.

Pasta and banana flapjack?

I've had a fairly bad time on too many pro plus as a reckless youth. Mind you, I've not done more than a 200, and I guess you need more than tea at some point.

I've never used Pro Plus on an audax, and I've done PBP and LEL, and completed 9x600s.

Coffee, e.g. cappuccino, plus the odd can of Red Bull.

I think some people seem to need it more than others, though.  I'm a bit of a night owl anyway.

[mattc]

I've never used Pro Plus on an audax, and I've done PBP and LEL, and completed 9x600s.

Coffee, e.g. cappuccino, plus the odd can of Red Bull.

I think some people seem to need it more than others, though.  I'm a bit of a night owl anyway.

It's just caffeine, whether you take it in RB, PP or coffE.

[I feel more kick from coffee than PP, but I think that's psycho-somatic! PP is by far the most convenient form to carry on the bike (and RB tastes foul, and pollutes water bottles for months).]