Climbing hills

[velosam]

Now I have read all the advice re climbing hills but yesterday it all went to pieces.  I went around Richmond Park and tried to climb up Sawyers Hill anticlockwise. 

First attempt middle chainring, lowest gear - struggled and had to get out of the saddle for the last 50m or so and it was stop start.

Second attempt no better despite smallest front chaining - I have a triple and practically lowest rear gear.

It was just pathetic and my quads were killng me on the way home.

Is it just down to not enough strength or technique, but I just could not spin any more.

Cheers

[Peter]

Velo, I don't know anything about your physique or the hill you mention but I suggest you don't persist with it for the moment - that way lies early death or mojo-loss, which is a version of same.  Find a hill you can do and do it a lot before trying again.  Dead people don't climb!

Peter

[Torslanda]

Peter gave me the very best advice about climbing hills.

DON'T TRY.

Attacking a hill is the best way to end up as a sweaty mess. Winching your way to the top works. Who cares if you go up in bottom gear? Turning the pedals at a constant cadence is the answer. Aged 17 and half the weight I am now I could afford.to stick to a big gear. Nowadays it's about getting to the top. As you practice you will become fitter, as you become fitter you will become faster. Fitter and faster will get you up the hills in a bigger gear.

It's far more satisfying to ride up than walk and you achieve that by riding up the hills, not climbing...

[velosam]

I don't mind using low gears but I couldn't really get up on my lowest gear and I have distinct memories of being overtaken by someone who had enough breath to be able to speak clearly as well.  I figured a year later and lower gearing (not to mention the weigh loss) it would be easier

[hellymedic]

Train to get MUCH faster and stronger on the flat; then try the hills again.
If you can rocket away from traffic lights and maintain higher speeds on the flat the hills will happen.

Losing weight may help in the long term.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

Do what you will, there's always someone who can climb faster!  And it is all about practice.

My hill climbing career started in E.Anglia where hills are fairly modest affairs.  Even the hills in Ipswich were a struggle.  Later I moved to Manchester (south) and found some much better hills in the Peak district.  With much persistence I became better at climbing altho' nothing special;  I could climb Snake Pass.

After Manchester I moved to York and started doing organised rides where my climbing passed muster but was a very timid descender among the other riders.  After a while I managed the old Moors 'illy Imperial which I did 3 times and the Phil and Friends a few times.  (On the latter the fiendish Winnatts Pass is reached just after lunch - you get a rather good lunch -  on a full stomach you see the bloody thing rearing up in front of you and it's a real mental battle.)

Then I did a bit of touring in the Massif Central.  It was immediately clear that my endurance was rubbish, especially with a touring load and even with low gears.  Surprisingly, by the end of a two week tour, however, I'd improved considerably. 

Next, I decided to do the Raid Pyrenean, touring/camping, 10 days and completed it well within the time limit so I did the 4 day version a year or two later. 

This year I climbed Mont Ventoux quite happily and next year I'm planning to conquer the Alp d'Huez.  Loads of people overtake me but I don't care.

[Kim]

My only hill-climbing qualification is that I have an awkward habit of hauling 19kg of bike (and plenty of lard) around with me and refuse to get off and push unless lack of traction leaves me with no other choice.  But my approach is that first and foremost you can never have too low a gear, and that at first (and often when touring) you should simply aim to ride a given hill all the way to the top without walking.  Once you can do that, try to do it without stopping.  Once you can pace yourself accurately enough to do that consistently, you can work on doing it a little faster.

Aching quads and not being able to spin any more is normal when you aren't used to spinning.  It gets better if you keep doing it.  (Well, actually it doesn't - you just go faster.)

[LittleWheelsandBig]

At some point velosam, we'll actually have to ride together. It might be a little easier riding with others and having instant feedback, rather than trying to apply random internet information and post-analysis.

[contango]

Now I have read all the advice re climbing hills but yesterday it all went to pieces.  I went around Richmond Park and tried to climb up Sawyers Hill anticlockwise. 

First attempt middle chainring, lowest gear - struggled and had to get out of the saddle for the last 50m or so and it was stop start.

Second attempt no better despite smallest front chaining - I have a triple and practically lowest rear gear.

It was just pathetic and my quads were killng me on the way home.

Is it just down to not enough strength or technique, but I just could not spin any more.

Cheers

Remind me, is Sawyers Hill the one you go up if you go in through the Kingston gate and turn right at the little roundabout?

One thing I've found curious is that on my mountain bike with a 22-34 granny gear I found I needed to use the granny gear. When I bought my tricross with a 30-32 granny gear I had no idea how I'd make it up hills, but despite the gearing being much higher I still made it, but still needed the granny gear. Then one day I borrowed a bike from the LBS because the owner wanted to give me a chance to see what a faster road bike was like to ride - once again I wondered how I was going to get up the hill with a higher low gear (this one bottomed out at something like 39-27) and once again I made it.

What I concluded was that as long as I don't let my heart rate get too high I can usually complete a hill with the slow-and-steady approach (*). If I charge the hill my heart rate spikes - I can put down north of 1000 watts but only for a couple of seconds and it drives my pulse over 190 and typically means I won't go much further before I have to stop and let my pulse return to something more sensible. What I took to doing was getting into a low gear good and early and focussing on just turning the pedals, however slowly that meant I was going. As long as I wasn't going so slowly I tipped over sideways I just kept going. Over time I made it up the hill, and then after a while tried it again but making a mental note that I was going to regard the second-lowest gear as my granny gear. So instead of using a 30-32 gear I used (I think) a 30-28 gear.

From there it's just down to keeping at it. I never did lose enough weight to race very many people on hills but did feel particularly good the first time I did a complete lap of Richmond Park without going lower than the middle (39t) ring at the front.

(*) There are still limits, my recent attempt to scale a local hill that was something like 8.5% for 2.5 miles saw me stopping for a rest a few times. I didn't walk any part of the hill, and probably took longer to cycle/rest than it would have taken to walk it, but I wanted to cycle to the top. And the twisty descent, something like 8% for 2 miles, was seriously fun. I forgot to aid gravity by pedaling because I was too busy grinning.

[velosam]

I think that is the hill, but its called Broomfield. I go anticlockwise so it gets steeper at the top. I wonder if I am spinning to fast at around 90, maybe I should go slower. I have no idea what my heart rate is doing tbh.

I have got up there on a 42-28 but nearly died so I thought having the triple would be a breeze, obviously it wasn't

[mrcharly-YHT]

Winching really works. Usually bottom gear is too low for this method:

Stand up.
Don't use any more effort on the pedals than you would if walking up a very very steep hill/mountain.
Tromp along, ignore anyone who speeds past.


Anyone who says you can sit and spin up any hill has not ridden up anything really steep. Try that on some hills and you'll lift the front wheel and start to tip backwards.

[Wascally Weasel]

Now I have read all the advice re climbing hills but yesterday it all went to pieces.  I went around Richmond Park and tried to climb up Sawyers Hill anticlockwise. 

First attempt middle chainring, lowest gear - struggled and had to get out of the saddle for the last 50m or so and it was stop start.

Second attempt no better despite smallest front chaining - I have a triple and practically lowest rear gear.

It was just pathetic and my quads were killng me on the way home.

Is it just down to not enough strength or technique, but I just could not spin any more.

Cheers

Remind me, is Sawyers Hill the one you go up if you go in through the Kingston gate and turn right at the little roundabout?

No, the climb after the roundabout you describe is known as Dark Hill. The one after that you descend if continuing anticlockwise is Broomfield Hill (the one with the long sweeping bend).

Sawyer's Hill is the one between Roehampton and Richmond gates.

[Kim]

Anyone who says you can sit and spin up any hill has not ridden up anything really steep. Try that on some hills and you'll lift the front wheel and start to tip backwards.

Only if your bike's back-heavy...

[mrcharly-YHT]

Anyone who says you can sit and spin up any hill has not ridden up anything really steep. Try that on some hills and you'll lift the front wheel and start to tip backwards.

Only if your bike's back-heavy...

For recumbents, maybe.

[jsabine]

Winching really works. Usually bottom gear is too low for this method:

Stand up.
Don't use any more effort on the pedals than you would if walking up a very very steep hill/mountain.
Tromp along, ignore anyone who speeds past.


Anyone who says you can sit and spin up any hill has not ridden up anything really steep. Try that on some hills and you'll lift the front wheel and start to tip backwards.

Hmm. IME, if it's steep enough that you're lifting the front wheel while seated, getting out of the saddle is nearly as likely to lift the front, but more unstable. I tend to shift my weight forwards as much as I can and take it steadily: the lower the gear, the easier it is to be smooth. Or walk, of course. Nothing wrong with the 24" gear.

[pdm]

Climbing hills.....
Like most things cycling there are three aspects: headology, physiology and mechanology. 

mechanology - this has a some effect but is not the most important - a light stiff bike will climb faster and easier than a gas pipe bicycle shaped object. The correct gear ratio to let you spin at 60-80rpm comfortably on a climb is also important.
physiology - the fitter and more practiced  you are the faster you will climb (note - it will never be "easier" - just "faster")
headology - attitude is all. "There are not such things as hills - just slow and fast flat bits". You will get to the to top matter what speed you do! It will just seem a lot longer if you rush and suffer too much.

Seriously, though. practice and attitude are the most important. Climb withing your self and do it lots. You will get fitter and faster. Don't worry about speed - that will increase with practice.

Finally - if you want some real little hills to practice on - go to somewhere really hilly or come up here to visit the Peaks; once you have done several 250-350m climbs  at 4-8% and more back to back the n I suspect 40m in Richmond park will give you no problems whatsoever and you will have no fear of any hill.

[Kim]

Finally - if you want some real little hills to practice on - go to somewhere really hilly or come up here to visit the Peaks; once you have done several 250-350m climbs  at 4-8% and more back to back the n I suspect 40m in Richmond park will give you no problems whatsoever and you will have no fear of any hill.

Indeed; the thing that improved my hill-climbing more than anything else was not living in London.

[Peter]

I think we might be in danger of frightening the horses here: if people talk of "spinning" as being 60 - 80 rpm, as has been mentioned (not by me) then if the hill is serious, e.g. steeper than 1 in 10, then almost nobody I've met spins up it; ride with a rhythm, yes; spin, no.

[Mrs Pingu]

I find honking on the pedals just wears me out quicker and makes me want to stop. I only do it for a few seconds at a time and only because my arse needs a rest these days. I used to try to do it quite a lot a few years ago but I get on much better not doing it now.
I make more progress just picking a gear I can comfortably sustain for long periods and just plod on until I get to the top. I find that works for pretty much everything less than 10% and it gets me up alpine cols well enough. But I do have very low gears.
Like Kim, I am of the opinion that the hill's not too steep, it s the gears that aren't low enough.

[Kim]

Agreed: Honking is fine for railway bridges.  It's occasionally useful as an arse-break.  But for proper hills I find it only works at power levels I can't sustain, and tends to cause asthma attacks.  If you're not asthmatic, it's probably good training, thobut.

Your power:weight ratio may vary.

[JohnR]

In my limited experience of hill climbing, I recall when I got back on my bike 2 years ago, I was truly unfit and could not climb any sort of hill no matter my gearing due to total lack of fitness. As I continued, I got a little better at it but still in low gears and going oh so slow.

After my first year back cycling I was fit enough to climb most hills again in low gear and slow. I found that if I try a little harder on each hill climb to get up it in either a higher gear or greater cadence I would build greater strength in my legs quicker and would soon be able to get up those hills much easier than before, albeit at a greater heart rate and heavier breathing, but faster etc. This method increases my hill climbing ability much quicker than slowly building as before, until exhaustion stops me of course.

As for lower gearing, I have found that fitting lower gearing means the effort to propel me up those hills is the same, but speed is much slower. As for honking up hills, I can only do this for short periods. I've also found that if I stop trying harder to climb hills, my hill climbing ability also drops off, but that may be because I'm an old geezer.

I think what I'm trying to say is that to climb hills easier and faster one must do HIT training and possibly hill repeats to increase the overall fitness sufficiently. This is probably not beneficial for asthma sufferes though.

[Ningishzidda]

“Don’t ride upgrades, ride up grades.”

E. Merckx.


When it comes to hill climbing, its best to start in early teens on a steel youth’s sports bike with 48 x 28 lowest.
If you’ve missed this window of opportunity, find a hill and ride up it on lowest. Then go back to the bottom and ride up it on the next gear. Repeat until you’re knackered or can’t make headway.
Keep doing this session regularly and eat healthily. Then you’ll notice the power increase.

The secret is to start a ride gently, gradually increasing intensity to get the arteries dialated. 

[Ningishzidda]

Train to get MUCH faster and stronger on the flat; then try the hills again.
If you can rocket away from traffic lights and maintain higher speeds on the flat the hills will happen.

Losing weight may help in the long term.

Sprinting and climbing utilise different muscle bundles. The best sprinter in the world ( Cavendish ) is crap at climbing. Likewise, the KoM is not good at the sprints or TT stages.

[mrcharly-YHT]

There is a huge difference between climbing a 10% gradient and steeper than 20%.

10% or less - low gears, sit down, be patient, don't push yourself. You'll get there eventually.

20% or steeper is an utterly different proposition. Steeper than 33% and you do need to be out of the saddle, leaning as far forward over the bars as possible.

[Ningishzidda]

In my limited experience of hill climbing, I recall when I got back on my bike 2 years ago, I was truly unfit and could not climb any sort of hill no matter my gearing due to total lack of fitness. As I continued, I got a little better at it but still in low gears and going oh so slow.

After my first year back cycling I was fit enough to climb most hills again in low gear and slow. I found that if I try a little harder on each hill climb to get up it in either a higher gear or greater cadence I would build greater strength in my legs quicker and would soon be able to get up those hills much easier than before, albeit at a greater heart rate and heavier breathing, but faster etc. This method increases my hill climbing ability much quicker than slowly building as before, until exhaustion stops me of course.

As for lower gearing, I have found that fitting lower gearing means the effort to propel me up those hills is the same, but speed is much slower. As for honking up hills, I can only do this for short periods. I've also found that if I stop trying harder to climb hills, my hill climbing ability also drops off, but that may be because I'm an old geezer.

I think what I'm trying to say is that to climb hills easier and faster one must do HIT training and possibly hill repeats to increase the overall fitness sufficiently. This is probably not beneficial for asthma sufferes though.

Correct.