Author Topic: FTP test recording diary  (Read 5013 times)

FTP test recording diary
« on: 25 November, 2015, 07:38:20 am »
The health and fitness group have a list of their weight loss and somebody has made a graph for it.

Would anybody be interested in listing their FTP, possibly lactate threshold and then editing the page each time they test.

I would hope this was not willy waving (substitute appropriate anatomical part) but just a way of supporting each other keeping tabs on our own training, etc

So far this year I had an FTP of 210 in the summer then changed turbo and my new

FTP = 201 on 14/11/2015

simonp

Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #1 on: 25 November, 2015, 10:46:31 am »
OK, why not:

Date
Methodology
FTP
21-Feb-2015
Ramp test + RQ
220W
21-Apr-2015
Ramp test + RQ
240W
07-Jun-2015
20 minute TR + KickR
250W
07-Jul-2015
20 minute TR + KickR
256W
13-Aug-2015
Ramp test + RQ
260W
23-Sep-2015
2x8 minute TR + KickR
254W
17-Nov-2015
2x8 minute TR + KickR
253W
3-Feb-2016
2x8 minute TR + KickR
259W

Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #2 on: 25 November, 2015, 10:52:33 am »
Most people on this forum have a set of scales. Few of us have a power meter or access to a wattbike.

Having said that, if you were to set this up, I'd be in.

rob

Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #3 on: 25 November, 2015, 10:59:52 am »
My last ramp test was over a year ago.   IIRC power at threshold (bit different from FTP) was a smidge over 200w.

simonp

Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #4 on: 25 November, 2015, 11:17:27 am »
I can probably adapt the graphing scripts I wrote to this fairly easily, if there's sufficient demand.

Note none of this will happen in the next week or two - I still don't have a working computer.

Adding weight to the table adds another metric (FTP/kg) which might motivate me to lose a bit of weight.

Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #5 on: 25 November, 2015, 11:48:49 am »
I'll join in. I like ftp/kg as well (yes, I can divide).

Given that I don't and won't test ftp even on a monthly basis there probably needs to be a bit of flexibility with timing. Ftp seems tougher than testing weight.

Mike

simonp

Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #6 on: 25 November, 2015, 11:51:42 am »
Indeed. I shan't insist on an FTP test every wednesday or you're out.

The table I wrote above is a starting point. Probably, I need to adjust the format to use numeric dates, for simplicity's sake, and add a weight field.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #7 on: 25 November, 2015, 12:02:58 pm »
if i found a reliable and consistent way to test ftp i'd be up for this

Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #8 on: 25 November, 2015, 12:32:27 pm »
In the vehicle emissions business, ( unless you are Volkswagen ) everyone measuring the pollutants from their products uses the same protocol according to EEC or SAE.

The engine and drive systems are preconditioned, temperature soaked and tested to the same procedure, so that the result compares with other manufacturers’ products.

Its called a ‘Global standard’.

In the industry, a ‘round robin calibration vehicle’ is shipped around to the test labs as a direct comparator.

Testing a human being’s power output on an ergometer requires the same due diligence, i.e. each cyclist follows the same warm-up; rest period and test which follows the same ‘drive trace’ or output stages.

Allen and Coggan ( Trainingpeaks ) devised the protocol for either a full 60 minute FTP, or a CT20 ( Critical Test 20 minutes ).

First, decide which protocol we use.

What Allen and Coggan did, in effect, was to commercialise the work done by N.A.S.A.; David Gordon Wilson and Francis Whitt in the 1960s.
Of course, N.A.S.A. didn’t call it Functional Threshold Power. More like ’60 minute power test’ which speaks for itself rather than something cryptic in a new made up language which racing cyclists have to learn to be ‘in the know’.
They attempted to keep the entire protocol secretive, selling it for hard dollars to cyclists who wanted to compare themselves against elite cyclists who were being tutored by Allen and Coggan.

We could of course, make up our own Protocol and call it something different that only we know.



Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #9 on: 25 November, 2015, 01:00:31 pm »
In the vehicle emissions business, ( unless you are Volkswagen ) everyone measuring the pollutants from their products uses the same protocol according to EEC or SAE.

The engine and drive systems are preconditioned, temperature soaked and tested to the same procedure, so that the result compares with other manufacturers’ products.

Its called a ‘Global standard’.

In the industry, a ‘round robin calibration vehicle’ is shipped around to the test labs as a direct comparator.

Testing a human being’s power output on an ergometer requires the same due diligence, i.e. each cyclist follows the same warm-up; rest period and test which follows the same ‘drive trace’ or output stages.

Allen and Coggan ( Trainingpeaks ) devised the protocol for either a full 60 minute FTP, or a CT20 ( Critical Test 20 minutes ).

First, decide which protocol we use.

What Allen and Coggan did, in effect, was to commercialise the work done by N.A.S.A.; David Gordon Wilson and Francis Whitt in the 1960s.
Of course, N.A.S.A. didn’t call it Functional Threshold Power. More like ’60 minute power test’ which speaks for itself rather than something cryptic in a new made up language which racing cyclists have to learn to be ‘in the know’.
They attempted to keep the entire protocol secretive, selling it for hard dollars to cyclists who wanted to compare themselves against elite cyclists who were being tutored by Allen and Coggan.

We could of course, make up our own Protocol and call it something different that only we know.
[/b]

Now, there's a plan.

simonp

Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #10 on: 25 November, 2015, 01:05:15 pm »
I've found the three protocols I've listed in my table to be consistent enough for my purposes.

Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #11 on: 25 November, 2015, 02:43:01 pm »
The problem with the human body. Once it does some hard work, it adapts and changes. Either for better or worse. It very rarely stays the same.

The principle of using a repeated not-changing test procedure is to throw out doubt. The schedule you used today was the same as you used last month, and next month you will use the same.
Negate any variability in the test schedule.

By performing a rotation of different schedules and getting repeatable results tells me the tests and/or the intermediate training isn’t making any improvement.

Hunter Allen’s protocol went something like this, basing percentages on the immediate previous FTP result. When the tests are months apart, I found a deterioration of 2% per week was about right. NO amelioration.  ;)

20 minutes easy increase to 55%.
3 x 1 min sprints at FTP with 1 min easy between
5 mins at 55%
3 mins 140%
9 mins at 55%
20 minute test.
Cooldown.

Multiply average Wattage for the 20 minute test period by 0.95.


This is what I use and got an FTP of 242 about two weeks before the last TT of this season ( August bank holiday weekend )

Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #12 on: 25 November, 2015, 03:29:13 pm »
I take Ningishzidda's points about standardisation but this is not about saying my FTP is better than yours but simply an extra encouragement on the cold dark days to do our training and to share our successes.  If my FTP/CTP/other measure is going up with your training then great.  The only consistency I am interested in is my own internal consistency and getting/giving encouragement.

I think adding weight to give watts per kg would be great.


TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #13 on: 25 November, 2015, 08:55:36 pm »
I'm in. And I'm not really interested in Ning's concerns. I'm well aware that I need to use the same test on the same equipment each time. It's only me I'm measuring and only my own progress I'm interested in.

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #14 on: 25 November, 2015, 09:23:54 pm »
11 Oct :  193W 20' test using TrainerRoad (average HR=152)

My plan is to do one approximately every 6 weeks

28 Nov: 200W (average HR=152)

Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #15 on: 26 November, 2015, 07:43:09 am »


Here's the famous chart by David Gordon Wilson.
Notice the NASA 'Healthy men' line is just over 200 W at 60 mins.

I questioned the 'hump' between 20 minutes and 1 hour, or the 'drop off' at 30 - 40 minutes.
On researching 'Cardiac drift', published research stated a 'drop off' in power output when CD happens approx 40 - 60 minutes into hard cycle ergometer tests.
Coggan uses a 0.95 correction factor to get FTP from a CT20. This chart shows different.

The only way is to do the 60 minutes.

Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #16 on: 26 November, 2015, 07:47:18 am »
Hi Oranj, Thanks for that.  I had missed it.  I am perfectly happy for that to be resurrected and the two threads merged.  I wondered if the concept would be of interest and it seems to be to a small number of people.  It will be interesting to see if it stays active or dies.

simonp

Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #17 on: 26 November, 2015, 09:02:50 am »
This thread is getting a bit polluted with discussion.

The other thread shouldn't be merged, IMO, as it uses different metrics.

Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #18 on: 26 November, 2015, 11:31:14 pm »
I'm in, FWIW - it is amusing how quickly you get sucked in to the numbers ;)

Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #19 on: 28 November, 2015, 07:37:01 pm »
I'd be up for this - the gym I'm a member of has recently got a couple of wattbikes.

LMT

Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #20 on: 06 December, 2015, 04:40:03 pm »
MMP test on a wattbike a couple of weeks ago gave 446w. Which means a FTP of about 300w which feels about right when training.

Cuurently two weeks into a four week base training. Will retest at the end.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #21 on: 06 December, 2015, 05:38:01 pm »
had my first go at measuring 20min effort, which translates into ftp of 245w


LMT

Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #22 on: 06 December, 2015, 06:32:15 pm »
had my first go at measuring 20min effort, which translates into ftp of 245w



I can't believe that your FTP is 245w, I thought it'd be higher. Try the three minute anaerobic test Zigzag, where you absolutely gunn it for three minutes. I find intitially that this is a better test to establish your training zones and what feels like your threshold as it requires less pacing as you are only pedalling for three minutes.

If you have not already take a memory stick with you, plug it into the back of the unit, do the 3 minute test and then input the value under your personal stats along with your max HR. It will then automatically work out your training zones for you from ZR through to Zmax. Your values in zone 4 will be roughly what your FTP is.


zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #23 on: 06 December, 2015, 07:17:33 pm »
this was done outside in real world with some car traffic and potholes to avoid (and i'm nowhere near my summer fitness now). i have tried measuring power on turbo trainers (wattbike, bkool) and it comes quite a bit higher, e.g. 680w for 1min which i wouldn't be able to replicate on a bike.
i noticed the best way to keep the power output high is to climb a moderately steep hill.

simonp

Re: FTP test recording diary
« Reply #24 on: 06 December, 2015, 08:48:46 pm »
I was surprised that number was so low and doing it outdoors won't have helped. I'm much slower than you and I recently tested at 253W FTP based on 2x8 minutes at 282W.