Author Topic: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?  (Read 8004 times)

Kim

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Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #25 on: 28 March, 2021, 07:38:34 pm »
The Voodoo reviews do mention about the bad tyres... so i think i will buy puncture proof tires.

I have already bought my helmet, lights and lock.

The schwalbe marathon tires look like they are good, Tires for commuting is something i will have to research as i am clueless on this.

Thanks for your help

Puncture proof tyres are either incredibly horrible to ride, or they are puncture resistant.

In my experience, Schwalbe Marathon Greenguard are the best compromise of rolling resistance vs puncture protection.

That's my best compromise for general riding, too:  The Marathon Greenguards are relatively heavy, but roll well and you'll probably get one puncture a year on them.

If you're dealing with roads strewn with flints or similar, lack the hand strength to fit a tyre or have a complicated hub (eg. with an electric motor) that makes removing the wheel a mission, it's probably worth upping the game to Marathon Plus.  Those are heavier and give a much harsher ride, but you can ride over drawing pins and broken glass with impunity (they can still puncture through the sidewall if you snag a bit of wire or something, but that's quite rare).

If you have decent roads, don't mind fixing punctures in the pissing rain, or particularly value speed or comfort, a lighter tyre might make more sense.  Durano is inexpensive and about halfway between the sturdy touring tyres and the really fast racing tyres (but it's completely slick[1], so hopeless off-road).


[1] In case you're not already aware:  At bicycle speeds and tyre pressures, you don't need a pattern on the tread to prevent aquaplaning like you do on a car tyre.  As such, a completely smooth tyre gives you the best grip *on tarmac*, even in the wet.  However, as soon as you're riding on mud, sand, grass, leaf chutney, etc, a pattern becomes helpful for grip, but this increases the rolling resistance of the tyre.  Hence knobbly mountain bike tyres, which grip well off-road, are relatively slow-rolling.  'Touring' tyres like the Marathon are a compromise - smooth enough roll well and corner sensibly at speed, but have enough of a tread pattern that you won't fall on your arse on a typical unsurfaced cyclepath.

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #26 on: 28 March, 2021, 07:39:09 pm »
This place isn't what it once was. Nobody has said it yet, so I will.

For that money, just go fixed and you won't have to worry about the quality of gears and associated components  :P

I think i will stick with a hybrid as i like coasting and have quite a few hills to go over

thanks

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #27 on: 28 March, 2021, 07:41:33 pm »
The Voodoo reviews do mention about the bad tyres... so i think i will buy puncture proof tires.

I have already bought my helmet, lights and lock.

The schwalbe marathon tires look like they are good, Tires for commuting is something i will have to research as i am clueless on this.

Thanks for your help

Puncture proof tyres are either incredibly horrible to ride, or they are puncture resistant.

In my experience, Schwalbe Marathon Greenguard are the best compromise of rolling resistance vs puncture protection.

That's my best compromise for general riding, too:  The Marathon Greenguards are relatively heavy, but roll well and you'll probably get one puncture a year on them.

If you're dealing with roads strewn with flints or similar, lack the hand strength to fit a tyre or have a complicated hub (eg. with an electric motor) that makes removing the wheel a mission, it's probably worth upping the game to Marathon Plus.  Those are heavier and give a much harsher ride, but you can ride over drawing pins and broken glass with impunity (they can still puncture through the sidewall if you snag a bit of wire or something, but that's quite rare).

If you have decent roads, don't mind fixing punctures in the pissing rain, or particularly value speed or comfort, a lighter tyre might make more sense.  Durano is inexpensive and about halfway between the sturdy touring tyres and the really fast racing tyres (but it's completely slick[1], so hopeless off-road).


[1] In case you're not already aware:  At bicycle speeds and tyre pressures, you don't need a pattern on the tread to prevent aquaplaning like you do on a car tyre.  As such, a completely smooth tyre gives you the best grip *on tarmac*, even in the wet.  However, as soon as you're riding on mud, sand, grass, leaf chutney, etc, a pattern becomes helpful for grip, but this increases the rolling resistance of the tyre.  Hence knobbly mountain bike tyres, which grip well off-road, are relatively slow-rolling.  'Touring' tyres like the Marathon are a compromise - smooth enough roll well and corner sensibly at speed, but have enough of a tread pattern that you won't fall on your arse on a typical unsurfaced cyclepath.

i will have to research tyre options as i have no idea to be honest

thanks

Kim

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Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #28 on: 28 March, 2021, 07:50:57 pm »
I'd use whatever the bike comes with and see how you get on, in the first instance.  If repeated punctures are a problem, upgrade to something sturdier.  If they're not, you might as well stick with them until they wear out, then give the matter more consideration when it comes to replacing them.

All else being equal, wider tyres add weight (obviously) but tend to give a nicer ride on badly-maintained tarmac or gravel.  This is one of the advantages of hybrids over road bikes, and even some tourers - they tend to have room for much wider tyres while still being able to fit proper mudguards.  (Skinny tyres have an aerodynamic benefit, but this is only really important at racing speeds.)

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #29 on: 28 March, 2021, 08:12:33 pm »
I'd use whatever the bike comes with and see how you get on, in the first instance.  If repeated punctures are a problem, upgrade to something sturdier.  If they're not, you might as well stick with them until they wear out, then give the matter more consideration when it comes to replacing them.

All else being equal, wider tyres add weight (obviously) but tend to give a nicer ride on badly-maintained tarmac or gravel.  This is one of the advantages of hybrids over road bikes, and even some tourers - they tend to have room for much wider tyres while still being able to fit proper mudguards.  (Skinny tyres have an aerodynamic benefit, but this is only really important at racing speeds.)

ok thanks

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #30 on: 28 March, 2021, 09:21:31 pm »
This place isn't what it once was. Nobody has said it yet, so I will.

For that money, just go fixed and you won't have to worry about the quality of gears and associated components  :P

I think i will stick with a hybrid as i like coasting and have quite a few hills to go over

thanks

And if you go fixed the belt drive is out so you still need to change chains (and lubricate them). Although you will get so strong riding your fixed over the hills that you won't even notice the extra resistance of a worn out, clagged up chain ;D

Having read the other posts I would add a couple of caveats:

1. I notice mention of Clarks hydraulic disc brakes. Their cable discs are not as good as a cheap V-brake, I wouldn't expect the performance of the hydraulic ones to be significantly better. They are very cheap!
2. Hub gears will go a long time without maintenance. This does not mean that they are maintenance free or that they will not be better, smoother and more reliable with regular lubrication (6-12 month intervals depending on mileage and riding conditions). They are very tolerant of chain wear though. The net is full of horror stories about unmaintained gear hubs that have suffered from water ingress. Just saying! I like them but best keep your ideas open

The cheapest way to get a bike is to hang around knowledgeable people who like to change their kit (perhaps join a club), learn a bit about how it all goes together and, above all, NEVER say no to anything that's being offered free. Unfortunately this also gets you a garage full of unusable junk DAHIKT  :facepalm:

My daughter was looking for a bike in your price range to take a child seat (not for commuting though) and we have given up on the search - I'm sending her one of mine from France! Good luck with your hunting!

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #31 on: 28 March, 2021, 09:49:37 pm »
This place isn't what it once was. Nobody has said it yet, so I will.

For that money, just go fixed and you won't have to worry about the quality of gears and associated components  :P

I think i will stick with a hybrid as i like coasting and have quite a few hills to go over

thanks

And if you go fixed the belt drive is out so you still need to change chains (and lubricate them). Although you will get so strong riding your fixed over the hills that you won't even notice the extra resistance of a worn out, clagged up chain ;D

Having read the other posts I would add a couple of caveats:

1. I notice mention of Clarks hydraulic disc brakes. Their cable discs are not as good as a cheap V-brake, I wouldn't expect the performance of the hydraulic ones to be significantly better. They are very cheap!
2. Hub gears will go a long time without maintenance. This does not mean that they are maintenance free or that they will not be better, smoother and more reliable with regular lubrication (6-12 month intervals depending on mileage and riding conditions). They are very tolerant of chain wear though. The net is full of horror stories about unmaintained gear hubs that have suffered from water ingress. Just saying! I like them but best keep your ideas open

The cheapest way to get a bike is to hang around knowledgeable people who like to change their kit (perhaps join a club), learn a bit about how it all goes together and, above all, NEVER say no to anything that's being offered free. Unfortunately this also gets you a garage full of unusable junk DAHIKT  :facepalm:

My daughter was looking for a bike in your price range to take a child seat (not for commuting though) and we have given up on the search - I'm sending her one of mine from France! Good luck with your hunting!

I am just starting my journey in terms of biking, but doubt i will go with a fixed bike.

Also bikes with hub gears are not that easy to find so will probably not go for this

I am going to go for a subway 2 or voodoo marasa... will try and buy it new if possible, if not buy used and take it to my LBS to set it up for me with mudguards etc. If i cant find these 2 bikes i will probably look for another hybrid with disk brakes that's an alloy frame.

Thanks for your advice


Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #32 on: 29 March, 2021, 07:26:42 am »

1. I notice mention of Clarks hydraulic disc brakes. Their cable discs are not as good as a cheap V-brake, I wouldn't expect the performance of the hydraulic ones to be significantly better. They are very cheap!


I recently put some Clarks hydraulic brakes on my old MTB.  They are remarkably good but I have no idea how long they will last.

I commuted for a couple of years on a borrowed Subway and it was absolutely fine.  I also did my first audax on it.  It was 100k but closer to 150k by the time I had cycled to the start and back.  This was a V-brake model and I'm not sure how the current Subway compares.

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #33 on: 29 March, 2021, 09:09:45 am »

1. I notice mention of Clarks hydraulic disc brakes. Their cable discs are not as good as a cheap V-brake, I wouldn't expect the performance of the hydraulic ones to be significantly better. They are very cheap!


I recently put some Clarks hydraulic brakes on my old MTB.  They are remarkably good but I have no idea how long they will last.

I commuted for a couple of years on a borrowed Subway and it was absolutely fine.  I also did my first audax on it.  It was 100k but closer to 150k by the time I had cycled to the start and back.  This was a V-brake model and I'm not sure how the current Subway compares.

cheers

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #34 on: 29 March, 2021, 09:48:35 am »
I bought a Subway 8 (hub geared) for one stepson to commute on about 10 years ago. It was an excellent buy, considering the price. Even back then it had hydraulic discs, and Mavic 317 rims. It worked hard for a couple of years before he graduated to a car, and I think we sold it for not far short of what we'd bought it for new.

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #35 on: 29 March, 2021, 10:37:52 am »
I bought a Genesis Day One for my daughter to commute on. She's in East Anglia (no big or steep hills), single speed and cable discs. Rack, mudguards and town-suitable lights.
Maintenance is changing tyres and oiling the chain. She loves it.

Unfortunately, the reason it was that cheap was because it was new old stock and crucially, she's only 5'1" and XXS was the size available.

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #36 on: 29 March, 2021, 11:04:08 am »
Single speed is not an option for me due to hills on my commute

Hub gears bikes are not popular and there may be an issue getting parts etc

i will stick with a hybrid commuter

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #37 on: 29 March, 2021, 11:54:27 am »
Hub gears bikes are not popular and there may be an issue getting parts etc

Hub gears very rarely need parts replacing, which is one of the main arguments in their favour. The only part that will need replacing regularly (as in, perhaps, once a year at most) is the sprocket, and they're easy enough to get hold of.

Not trying to push you one way or the other - just saying don't be put off hub gears for the wrong reasons.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #38 on: 29 March, 2021, 11:59:09 am »
I would have put it in terms of "8 speed or above"...

I assumed that was probably the case!
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #39 on: 29 March, 2021, 01:11:34 pm »
Single speed is not an option for me due to hills on my commute

Hub gears bikes are not popular and there may be an issue getting parts etc

i will stick with a hybrid commuter

Which ever sales moron at a shop told you that. Do not go back to that shop. That's bollocks.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Kim

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Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #40 on: 29 March, 2021, 01:33:10 pm »
Single speed is not an option for me due to hills on my commute

Hub gears bikes are not popular and there may be an issue getting parts etc

i will stick with a hybrid commuter

Which ever sales moron at a shop told you that. Do not go back to that shop. That's bollocks.

It's true in as much that:

a) Most bikes in the UK are designed and marketed as sports equipment, rather than a practical means of transport, so those with hub gears are relatively rare.  That most transport cyclists are unwilling to pay for higher-spec bikes probably exacerbates this.

2) Staff in bike shops are generally inclined to recommend the stuff that they're familiar with, and the less ethical ones may exaggerate or invent reasons for you not to buy a product they don't sell.  "Issue getting the parts" may simply mean "we'd have to ring the wholesaler".

iii) There are currently issues getting all kinds of bicycle parts in the UK due to the combination of COVID-19 and brexit.  Buying parts directly from abroad as a consumer has been made unnecessarily difficult by ridiculous UK tax rules.


But yeah, avoid.

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #41 on: 29 March, 2021, 01:57:43 pm »
Commuting? Any luggage? Back when I had a long commute, the best thing I ever had was a Caradice Nelson Long flap, on seatpost quick release. It didn't matter which bike it was on, which ever bike had it on, it was my best commute bike.

Does having a sweaty back make difference to you?
Will you be bringing back any shopping?

Will you take part in the tour de commute?
Do you like to race away from lights.

What are your views on being overtaken?

What clothes will you wear?

A low geared sit up and beg bike with a decent chain guard is best if you ever need business dress.  Hybrids even though they have flat bars, they are still quite aggressive, actually try a sit up and beg city bike.


Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #42 on: 29 March, 2021, 03:13:56 pm »
I would have put it in terms of "8 speed or above"...

I assumed that was probably the case!

Heuristic for 'freehub not multispeed freewheel' innit ...

I've used '21 gears or more' myself as a proxy for that, several years ago, but '8-speed up' is probably better these days.

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #43 on: 29 March, 2021, 03:20:39 pm »
I bought a Subway 8 (hub geared) for one stepson to commute on about 10 years ago. It was an excellent buy, considering the price. Even back then it had hydraulic discs, and Mavic 317 rims. It worked hard for a couple of years before he graduated to a car, and I think we sold it for not far short of what we'd bought it for new.

I'll second the Subway 8 love - worked as a mobile handyman for a couple of years using the older model (Nexus red band not Alfine, roller brakes not disc) for a couple of years. Never missed a beat.

Indeed, if the OP fancied giving hub gears a go, there's one in SE London I could move on for a very reasonable price (or lend for a test ride). Would come with Marathons and mudguards, but I'd be keeping the Tubus rack.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #44 on: 29 March, 2021, 03:58:35 pm »
Which ever sales moron at a shop told you that. Do not go back to that shop. That's bollocks.

OP is shopping at Halfords. Nuff said.

Just had a quick look at their website and it looks like the only hub-geared bike they sell under the 'Commuter' category is a Brompton.

Mind you, that's one more hub-geared bike than Decathlon have in their 'City & Commuter' category.

Hardly any wonder that newbie shoppers are put off the idea of hub gears when the whole industry is basically telling them not to bother.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #45 on: 29 March, 2021, 04:43:41 pm »

I would have put it in terms of "8 speed or above"...

Heuristic for 'freehub not multispeed freewheel' innit ...

Agreed - my bad.


londoncyclist007: This is the traditional point in the thread where it turns into people following their own lines of thought that may or may not relate to your original request. Don't feel obliged to keep responding and saying that you don't want singlespeed or hub gears (or even obliged to respond at all!).


I note that Voodoo Marasas seem to be up on ebay for about £150 less than the price as new. Whether they're selling at this price might be a separate question, but I would hazard a guess that it's going to be a seller's market for a while longer yet. If, after a few months, it turns out that you don't get on with the bike, you can sell it on for probably not too great a loss.

We've probably noted by now all the things that strike us as being red flags. Filtering for those, the main challenges are now going to be finding one that you look at and want to ride, one that fits you, and one that's in stock!




Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #46 on: 29 March, 2021, 05:39:06 pm »
You said in a previous post that you were going to get a secondhand bike from your LBS. What happened to change your mind?
The reason I ask is because getting a bike that actually fits you is as important as which bike you get. I wouldn't trust a random member of halfords staff (I'm aware there are some excellent people there, but...) to be able to choose the right size for me, and make the necessary setup adjustments, so if the choice ends up between Halfords and the LBS, choose the LBS.

In terms of your shortlist, you've got 3 hybrids and 2 road bikes.  If you prefer flat bars, then the Boardman is clearly the best of the 3 (and if correct, the chainset on the Voodoo is baffling (38/36/26t)).

If you like Decathlon, then it might be worth considering something like this instead - it's a bit heavy duty, but it's got dynamo lights and a sensible rack, and you would only need to add a lock, a pump and a spare tube before you are good to go. V brakes are not a problem, though hydraulic disks are nicer. The Boardman is much lighter and sportier (and more expensive), so it depends on what you value about riding a bike.
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/hoprider-100-long-distance-city-bike-tall-frame/_/R-p-300910

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #47 on: 29 March, 2021, 07:50:33 pm »
Which ever sales moron at a shop told you that. Do not go back to that shop. That's bollocks.

OP is shopping at Halfords. Nuff said.

Just had a quick look at their website and it looks like the only hub-geared bike they sell under the 'Commuter' category is a Brompton.

Mind you, that's one more hub-geared bike than Decathlon have in their 'City & Commuter' category.

Hardly any wonder that newbie shoppers are put off the idea of hub gears when the whole industry is basically telling them not to bother.

You have a very good point. Things appear to be changing a little. Just A Small Several of years ago the only options for a hub gear in the UK would be a gas-pipe Chinesium mail-order bike, a bespoke/hipster bike costing ££££, or a Brompton.

I was going to post something along those lines in response to QG on the grounds she is in the NL, before I googled. The Boardman bikes look like reasonable quality entry-level transport bikes and there have been quite a few similar looking bikes in the bike shed at work.

Bike shops have always been like that - Everyone "wants" a mountain bike to ride round London, Everyone wants suspension, Everyone wants a cheap carbon bike with six spokes per wheel, so that's what we're selling.

As for not getting parts, try getting off the shelf parts for any bike more than a few years old which had the latest and greatest groupset at the time of sale which has been obsoleted once a year since. The shop that told you it won't find parts for a hub gear will then be telling you it doesn't have that particular model of cassette, and wouldn't it be better just to upgrade the whole chainset? But they almost certainly do have the chain or cable or sprocket that fits the hub geared bike they didn't want to sell you. I wonder why.
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #48 on: 29 March, 2021, 08:12:00 pm »
And more in response to the OP:

1. Ignore the people who've suggested fixed/single. I say this as someone who has more fixed wheel bikes than gears. They are great in London if you're a seasoned cyclist. Maybe after a few year's commuting it may be for you.

2. Make sure whatever you choose has mounting points for mudguards. You will get wet more often from water on the road than actual rain. And a badger stripe of London grime is never a good look. Or pleasant.

3. Dynamo lights are great, but in London it never actually gets dark. All you need is some cheap Blinky lights to be seen by, and remember to charge them.

4. Hopefully you have somewhere secure to park at work. Otherwise factor in a very expensive lock and check your insurance.
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #49 on: 29 March, 2021, 08:22:50 pm »
3. Dynamo lights are great, but in London it never actually gets dark. All you need is some cheap Blinky lights to be seen by, and remember to charge them.

4. Hopefully you have somewhere secure to park at work. Otherwise factor in a very expensive lock and check your insurance.

And the intersection of these two points:  The main advantage of dynamo lights is that you never have to think about lights, they're on the bike ready to go, no need to remove them for charging or so they don't get nicked.

...but they do make the bike more expensive, which is probably a bad idea if you don't have secure parking.