In some ways a 3am finish might be more civilised than an 11am one for those of us at the back. But I'm sure it'll work out.
I'm guessing that you're including extra ups and downs too. I hope I'm up to the challenge.
In some ways a 3am finish might be more civilised than an 11am one for those of us at the back. But I'm sure it'll work out.
For the 125 hour group, the cut-off times will be between 11am and 5pm.
The route will be mandatory this time. There will be a single secret control. Again, because of extra details that we'll tell you about soon, we may also ask LRM to waive this requirement for a short stretch of the route.Sorry to be dense. Alwyn. What requirement might you ask LRM to waive? Does LRM require a mandatory route? Does LRM require all mandatory routes to have a secret control?
No. Iirc in 2017 the 117:05 time limit ended at 0605 through till 1305 (as those starts were 0900-1600) - daylight by design.In some ways a 3am finish might be more civilised than an 11am one for those of us at the back. But I'm sure it'll work out.
For the 125 hour group, the cut-off times will be between 11am and 5pm.
Exactly - whereas presumably in 1400km form the cut-offs were between 3am and 9am.
Exactly - whereas presumably in 1400km form the cut-offs were between 3am and 9am.No. Iirc in 2017 the 117:05 time limit ended at 0605 through till 1305 (as those starts were 0900-1600) - daylight by design.
We spent the whole of that 'last' day packing up the finish, accelerating the process in the afternoon once the last riders had completed, but still offering a welcome and food (till late afternoon) to those who arrived 'hors délai'. 2017 timings worked well.Exactly - whereas presumably in 1400km form the cut-offs were between 3am and 9am.No. Iirc in 2017 the 117:05 time limit ended at 0605 through till 1305 (as those starts were 0900-1600) - daylight by design.
Ah I see - fair enough, certainly I can see how a late finish would be a burden on the organisers.
Presumably that means one more control than 2017. As one who is planning to be a volunteer and is coming from afar I also will be waiting for the route announcement(s) with bated breath.Not necessarily. 70km could be split between a number of sections with mandatory routing preventing people using busier more direct roads.
In some ways a 3am finish might be more civilised than an 11am one for those of us at the back. But I'm sure it'll work out.
For the 125 hour group, the cut-off times will be between 11am and 5pm.
Exactly - whereas presumably in 1400km form the cut-offs were between 3am and 9am.
I'm curious as to where the additional 70 kms are going into the route. I suppose I'll just have to wait until Alwyn stops teasing us ;D
The high DNF in 2017 was down to Danish hills rather than British hills. 2021 will have more hills because it is longer. But I doubt it will be much hillier, as in overall average climb.
The high DNF in 2017 was down to Danish hills rather than British hills. 2021 will have more hills because it is longer. But I doubt it will be much hillier, as in overall average climb.
Danish hills? Clearly those were Dutch mountains. (My apologies, but for Dutch folk like me being able to cycle into endless headwinds is a source of national pride.)
Anyway, thanks for the update. I'm sure 1500k or 1425k won't make much of a difference. Either way looking forward to LEL in 2021.
The high DNF in 2017 was down to Danish hills rather than British hills ...
Wilkyboy knows more than me at this stage, he is looking after the route while I book controls.
From what I gathered the exceptionally high DNF rate (43% was it?) was largely down to a naive approach - riders not appreciating that their performance would deteriorate as the ride went on, and so not planning accordingly.
And just to add: I feel honoured to be working with Alwyn on this and I hope we deliver another classic route for y'all O:-)
And just to add: I feel honoured to be working with Alwyn on this and I hope we deliver another classic route for y'all O:-)
Aww shucks! The LEL route has been passed to some illustrious routemeisters in the past. It's about time you took on the challenge, especially since you wrote so much of the 2017 route.
The high DNF in 2017 was down to Danish hills rather than British hills ...
From what I gathered the exceptionally high DNF rate (43% was it?) was largely down to a naive approach - riders not appreciating that their performance would deteriorate as the ride went on, and so not planning accordingly.
Really ? Can you elaborate, as I would have thought any cyclist would appreciate that their performance would deteriorate the further they went. And how could they plan any differently? I've been advised by a few PBP & LEL finishers not to plan as any plan goes out of the window after the first day.
Really ? Can you elaborate, as I would have thought any cyclist would appreciate that their performance would deteriorate the further they went. And how could they plan any differently? I've been advised by a few PBP & LEL finishers not to plan as any plan goes out of the window after the first day.
As LWaB says, from observation this was what happened. Phil W produced some graphs from the rider data showing this too.
As to plans, it's right that a lot of very experienced randonneurs will advise you not to plan. And it's good advice ... for very experienced randonneurs, who will have an innate understanding of how these events go. For the inexperienced, especially if not super strong, having at least some plan for how to manage time is wise, even if it's simply that they should spend less time riding to Edinburgh than riding back. Ultimately, if riders don't have a plan the event has one for them (i.e. to ride 1430 km in 117 hours).
PBP helps riders by having control closing times such that it's necessary to ride the first half of the event in less time than the second half. Something similar for LEL would help less seasoned riders grok time management I think.
This is a fair analysis. You could argue the vicious headwinds merely exposed poor tactics. My fault partly. I was very keen that folk started late filled the control in Spalding, so assured them they could make the time up if they were behind on day one. Unfortunately it seems the 'make time up' bit got glossed over.
This is a fair analysis. You could argue the vicious headwinds merely exposed poor tactics. My fault partly. I was very keen that folk started late filled the control in Spalding, so assured them they could make the time up if they were behind on day one. Unfortunately it seems the 'make time up' bit got glossed over.
My recollection is the advice given to all riders was that missing any closing time on the way north was fine. If this was only ever meant to target a specific group that never got out. Even at the time, I couldn't figure out for whom it might be a sensible strategy.
(in hindsight, the PBP model of having asymmetric *hard* closing times seems much better)
A curious aspect of these long rides is music, especially as earworms; uncontrollable accompaniments to the journey. I’d met a rider from the US on PBP 2011, and we’d whiled away the hours chatting about blue-eyed soul. That led to him humming ‘Maneater’ by Hall and Oates for the next two days and nights. He reminded me of that at the LEL sign-in.
I was making a film, so I get ‘eye worms’ as well. I was constantly running templates into which the actual experience would fit. The overall idea I worked with was ‘Brigadoon’, a musical about a Scottish village which appears once every hundred years. The LEL village was on 1,400 pairs of wheels, spread out over 1,400 kilometres of road. It’s a temporary world, and a fascinating one, as the effects of extreme exhaustion and sleep-derivation give it a special character.
The danger is that the forecasting of the experience can become a self-defeating prophecy. Planning’s a big part of these rides, and boy do these people like to plan. Every move goes down on a spreadsheet for a lot of them. The collision of projection and reality comes as a shock to many.
Talking to the fastest is revealing. Anco de Jong trained with a few rapid 200 km excursions, as he likes to do the long ones every four years. Jasmine Muller, the current female 24 TT champion, started cycling to get to her ballet classes, and Marko Baloh, of Race Across America fame, found the conditions too cold and too wet for his liking. Marko and Chris Hopkinson, another stalwart of the Ultra Marathon Cycling Association, had hinted at an attempt at sub 60 hours, but rain, wind and mechanicals put paid to that dream. The main contenders also faced a combination of the Tour de France and Father Ted, with a succession of Mrs Doyles plying them with tea and cake.
Understatement is part of the culture of Audax, and Brits like to display their stiff upper lip by playing down the amount of climbing, even complaining about any flat bits. The organisers ride the route in sections, and each one is designed to be ‘interesting’. It all looks eminently sensible on paper, especially compared to PBP, with its more consistent ups and downs. When you string the whole thing together, it looks a bit different. There’s 12,000 metres of ascent, but it’s concentrated. Old hands know that, but even they were surprised by the inclusion of the Lincolnshire Wolds between the Humber Bridge and Louth. Nearly everyone was chastened by the Howardian Hills, North of York. That’s a roller coaster, guaranteed to annoy tandems, velomobiles and elliptigos.
Those with local knowledge simply rode around the Howardians, and the Lincolnshire and Yorkshire Wolds as well. In most countries, the published route is compulsory, often because there’s not a lot of choice. In England there’s choice galore, but the main governing factor is safety. Since the last running in 2013, I’ve made a number of tribute films for those lost on the roads around the world. Two cases were on Audax rides in Australia and New Zealand. Soon after this year’s start, we learned of the death of a noted Dutch Audaxer on the Transcontinental Race. That prompted a discussion with a controller about the media contingency plan for any such mishap on LEL.
The main hill avoidance routes are the A19, A63 and A18, heavily trafficked arterial routes, marginal for safety at the best of times. Most riders were using GPS tracks, so followed the official route as if on rails. They don’t seem to have maps, so the safety risk is under control, but I don’t actually want to be making any tribute videos as a result of LEL.
There was a vast amount of experience of riding in windy plains in the LEL peloton. Vicki Tyrer from Texas said that she didn’t go out on her bike with more than 30mph of breeze. The Fens were compared unfavourably with the Hungarian Puszta, and the Nullarbor Plain, which is 1,000 miles of featureless Australian desert. One rider declared that he was never riding RAAM, on the basis of his 40mph East Anglian headwind experience. Anco de Jong described a feeling of suspended animation, a sense in which turning the legs produced no perceivable progress. He was relatively lucky, it got windier as time went on, and he actually liked the Lincolnshire Wolds.
As I’d followed LEL, I’d seen a number of stories develop, and towards the end I had to resolve them. That’s made difficult by the way that the last validated finishes unfold over a period of 27 hours. There’s a group that set off at 5am on Sunday morning, with a 100 hour time allowance, and the last 116 Hour group set off at 4pm. Anco de Jong had finished at 7pm on the Tuesday, but was socialising at the finish control, thankfully. So I got an interview after I’d shot South from my hotel in Boston to cover the last 100 hour finishes. Then I returned to the St Ives control, before filming in Cambridge.
At St Ives, the controller asked me if I’d seen 500 to 600 missing riders on my travels. it was unclear if their absence was a by-product of planning, or simply a mystery. They had to be out there somewhere, but when would they turn up? Phil had to hand the control back on the following morning, and he wouldn’t be able to house the stragglers.
Before London Edinburgh London 2017, the nearest I’d got to Thailand was seeing my mother play Anna in an amateur production of the ‘The King and I’. During LEL I saw over 60 Thai cyclists pit themselves against the the British terrain and weather.
I was filming the event, largely out of force of habit, and I was constantly asked if I was a ‘professional’. That question brought my mum’s acting and directing career to mind. I should have been mortified by the embarrassment of seeing her on stage, but she was actually very good, and went on to stage benefit shows which would pull in an audience of 10,000 in a week. Many of that audience would be the relatives of the cast, or supporters of the charity, so there’s a a bit of collusion about the standard of the performance, but the results were genuinely enjoyable.
I’ve been involved with LEL since 2001, when I first rode it. My partner Heather organised a control stop at the Langdon Beck Youth Hostel, the highest in Britain. Controls on an Audax exist to confirm that the riders are doing the distance, and to provide services through the night; feeding, sleeping and mechanical help.
The first few LELs from 1989 used main roads, mainly the A68. But that’s become unpleasant and unsafe in modern traffic conditions, as the rider numbers have grown from 26 to over 1,400. The route now consists of the remotest routes imaginable between Loughton, on the edge of London, and Bonnyrigg on the edge of Edinburgh. The result is that the controls are the almost exclusive source of food and accommodation for the riders. The course does pass branches of Tesco and Lidl in Thirsk, but otherwise the main shops are Co-op and Spar convenience stores.
The controls are mainly small town secondary schools, with the school dinner staff providing the food, and with airbeds and blankets in the sports hall for tired riders. At Pocklington, that hall was a converted locomotive maintenance shed with 250 mattresses.
The LEL control managers take possession of the premises the day before the riders arrive, and adapt them as well as they can. Some controllers have experience to fall back on, but there can be no rehearsal. The event is vastly bigger in scale than other Audax United Kingdom events, so it’s not just a case of scaling up the usual arrangements.
Each LEL has sought to project the experience of past rides on to the present. There’s been a lot of computer modelling of rider flows along the course, and that informs the phasing of the starts. However, the weather and rider behaviour tend to produce big gaps between prediction and reality.
Paris Brest Paris is the other main endurance ride of this type. That requires qualification via 200, 300, 400 and 600 kilometre rides, and provides more consistency from the field. LEL aims to embrace the current crop of riders from the ‘sportive’ and ‘charity’ ends of the distance riding spectrum.
Heather and I have seen five LELs and five Paris Brest Paris rides. PBP works at the next level, with 5,000 participants, but draws on an annual week-long cycling festival called Semaine Federale, which has over 10,000 riders on the road every day. PBP therefore has a greater depth of volunteer resource to draw on, explicit backing from government, and works with professional caterers.
But these are still volunteer events at heart. That implies give and take between the organisation and participants. There often isn’t a fence between the two, they’re the same people. There’s the same sense of collusion that we find in amateur music and theatre. Heather is also the volunteer secretary of a choral society, and they have professional soloists and instrumental players to add some polish. It will be interesting to see how LEL develops. As long as it stays challenging, diverse and inclusive, I can foresee a bright future.
Having never done PBP, if you are late at a control, are you forcibly retired from the event? Do you still then have to get yourself back to the start?
Having never done PBP, if you are late at a control, are you forcibly retired from the event? Do you still then have to get yourself back to the start?
PBP has the tradition of Hors Delai (finishing out of time and not validated but still recorded) so most people continue riding round. I guess a few jump on a train, and for those in a bad way, the route controllers (patrolling in cars) might send out a broom waggon but of course they don't want to publicise this too much - the guy I stopped to assist wasn't really in a fit state to ride anywhere. The main issue is the controls will shut as soon as their closing time has been reached, so you can find yourself pretty much on your own once that happens. Last time as we started in the very last group (84h, Monday morning) and were grinding it out on fixed at the back, pretty much all I saw on the way back were the 90h dropouts struggling to get round at all.
I'm curious as to where the additional 70 kms are going into the route. I suppose I'll just have to wait until Danial stops teasing us ;D
There are 'planners' and 'plan avoiders' and I guess a spectrum of approaches in between.From what I gathered the exceptionally high DNF rate (43% was it?) was largely down to a naive approach - riders not appreciating that their performance would deteriorate as the ride went on, and so not planning accordingly.Really ? Can you elaborate, as I would have thought any cyclist would appreciate that their performance would deteriorate the further they went. And how could they plan any differently? I've been advised by a few PBP & LEL finishers not to plan as any plan goes out of the window after the first day.
A bit more of the extra distance will create a new route to our new “Edinburgh” control, which will be in Dunfermline at the brand new, huge, high school. This allows two crossings of the now traffic-free Forth road bridge. You don’t get to ride on the road, but the path is really wide and they’ve upgraded the access onto the bridge. There’s even a pedestrian crossing on it now!Excellent!
The high DNF in 2017 was down to Danish hills rather than British hills ...
From what I gathered the exceptionally high DNF rate (43% was it?) was largely down to a naive approach - riders not appreciating that their performance would deteriorate as the ride went on, and so not planning accordingly.
Really ? Can you elaborate, as I would have thought any cyclist would appreciate that their performance would deteriorate the further they went. And how could they plan any differently? I've been advised by a few PBP & LEL finishers not to plan as any plan goes out of the window after the first day.
I'm curious as to where the additional 70 kms are going into the route. I suppose I'll just have to wait until Danial stops teasing us ;D
A bit more of the extra distance will create a new route to our new “Edinburgh” control, which will be in Dunfermline at the brand new, huge, high school. This allows two crossings of the now traffic-free Forth road bridge. You don’t get to ride on the road, but the path is really wide and they’ve upgraded the access onto the bridge. There’s even a pedestrian crossing on it now!
The fens were not favourable on the return in 2013; there was a stonking headwind that year as well. It was also 34C in the shade and 38C in direct sunlight. Time was certainly not being made up.
You have to assume that at best you will maintain your contingency, but most likely lose a bit of time, returning across the fens
The fens were not favourable on the return in 2013; there was a stonking headwind that year as well. It was also 34C in the shade and 38C in direct sunlight. Time was certainly not being made up.
You have to assume that at best you will maintain your contingency, but most likely lose a bit of time, returning across the fens
Interesting... maybe my recollection is wrong. I thought the time in hand plots showed a lot made up time on the way home in 2013... maybe they were just hardier.. or less naïve :D
I met with Amey last year, and they suggested that we use both sides and make route directional. It strikes me as a good way to manage numbers.
What surprised me though was how few people walk and cycle across the bridge. The pedestrian and cyclists counts were pretty low and amounted to dozens of people a day.
The only part of the crossing that concerns me is the access point on the south side. That could be a bit of a pinch point and I hope that Amey will lower the bollards for the duration of the event.
use of the Forth Road Bridge would certainly allow iconic photographs of bikes, riders with Forth Rail Bridge in the background. Fifeing Eijit has a point about high winds, but my question would be how often in August is the road closed for high winds? I would suspect its more often in the winter and equinotical months.
Soon after this year’s start, we learned of the death of a noted Dutch Audaxer on the Transcontinental Race. That prompted a discussion with a controller about the media contingency plan for any such mishap on LEL.
Soon after this year’s start, we learned of the death of a noted Dutch Audaxer on the Transcontinental Race. That prompted a discussion with a controller about the media contingency plan for any such mishap on LEL.
Frank died the night before registration day. Part of the Dutch contingent heard about it on registration day. Over dinner we decided to start since Frank would have liked it that way. Still I had some issues with it during the first night. The absence of other riders on the road at that moment wasn't a help either (they were still overcrowding the Louth control).
That may seem like a long preamble to a report on the event, but it explains why you can’t take what riders say about the event at face value. Loyalty to hundreds of keen volunteers means that you’re not going to see a ‘Trip Advisor’ style review of LEL, amusing though that would be.
The route is ‘out and back’, and diverges North of Brampton, in Cumbria, for a clockwise tour of Southern Scotland, taking in controls at Moffat, Edinburgh, Innerleithen and Eskdalemuir. Eskdalemuir’s principal industries are forestry and Buddhism, with the Samye Ling temple playing a prominent role. It’s quiet enough to be the home to a seismic recording station which monitors underground nuclear bomb tests as far away as North Korea. Asian riders, used to asking directions in their crowded countries, were reduced to wondering if the sheep might be able to direct them.
No town on LEL outside the M25 or Edinburgh Ring Road has more than 15,000 inhabitants, most are below 5,000, many below 1,000. Eskdalemuir has just 256 people. Most riders like to get back to Brampton as soon as possible, to access their bags. There are two bag drops per rider, and Brampton is popular for those. The result is that Brampton gets overwhelmed at some point. It would be better to have a bigger control, but there isn’t a lot of choice. The field behaves like traffic on the M25. There are sudden waves, the French call it ‘circulation accordion’, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accordion_effect and it’s difficult to predict where the squeeze will come. Riders get bunched due to the terrain and the weather, both of which are wildly variable.
Audaxers call this ‘The Bulge’, and those in the know book hotels where they expect controls to be under siege. Most long Audaxes are underpriced, and for the faster riders, they represent fantastic value. But there comes a point where demand at controls exceeds supply, and any novice economist knows that the solution is a higher price. LEL costs more on each running, economies of scale work in reverse, as there are more formal hurdles to leap. In 2001, 2005 and 2009 I saved newspaper vouchers to get a discount at Lidl for tinned ravioli, rice pudding and biscuits for Heather’s control. This time the facilities company for the High School at Brampton handled the catering, with overtime rates during the continuous 63 hour opening period. A controller is now a manager coordinating a multinational mix of volunteers, school staff, and casual workers. Much of the time, the controls seemed over-manned, as no-one knew when ‘The Bulge’ might appear.
The ride is well worth doing, passing through some of the most unlikely looking parts of the UK, giving the impression that it’s about as populated as New Zealand. The presence of an Alpine climb in the North Pennines caused some surprise. It certainly took me aback when I first went to Yad Moss in 2001. That year was fairly benign, with just headwinds to deal with. 2005 was much the same, but 2009 was extremely grim for most. This year you were guaranteed to get rained on at some point, luck dictated where. You were guaranteed headwinds, and that’s probably what led to 34% of the starters dropping out, or finishing outside the time limit. I’ve yet to see a breakdown of that by nationality or experience, dyed-in-the-wool Audaxers finished as usual.
There are numerous accounts available online, and they give a flavour of the conditions that were faced. One of the most telling developments was that some of those who had previously stopped at hotels on route, relied on the organisation for sleeping. Admittedly they were Yorkshiremen, so the increased cost might have been a factor, but the arrangements worked perfectly well for the vast majority.
My overall view is that LEL and PBP can only be judged as a communal celebration of long distance cycling, and both succeed in those terms. If that appeals, then it’s for you at the advertised price. If you can’t get your head around some of the idealism, then they’re both still well worth doing. Just sit down, read between the lines, and work out how much you want to spend on a good night’s sleep between crisp white sheets, rather than under removal mens’ blankets and on an airbed.
I stay in Dunfermline so more than happy to help with any route queries at this end (my son goes to the High school so I know the roads very well)
Is it not about the experience?
Whether 80% finish within the time limit or only 50% manage, what difference does it make? As long as they all have a "good time", being that A or B type... who cares how many finish...
I disagree. Most folk prefer success to failure, particularly for something that you get one chance at every four years at best. Some riders react quite badly to not finishing a brevet in time, so not a "good time" for them and the negative effects on those riders can linger. Success breeds success and the converse is also true.
I figured that the first replies would be variations on the theme of 'failure is character-building'. If the failure rate of a brevet is too high, either the conditions were unexpectedly horrendous or the organiser or riders have misjudged something - perhaps by attracting riders unprepared for the rigours of their event.
Sure, there is always a risk of DNFing a long brevet but the majority of properly prepared riders should finish. Time limits are set to be somewhat challenging but quite achievable by the 'average rider'.
Time is almost always an issue! Are these people still riding bikes? If so, I would think they could have completed LEL2017... eventually ... given time off to fix/moderate their pain/injury.Sure, there is always a risk of DNFing a long brevet but the majority of properly prepared riders should finish. Time limits are set to be somewhat challenging but quite achievable by the 'average rider'.
I know 3 people who didn't finish LEL 2017... none of them had a time issue, all of them developed some form of pain or injury that prevented them to finish...
Sure, there is always a risk of DNFing a long brevet but the majority of properly prepared riders should finish. Time limits are set to be somewhat challenging but quite achievable by the 'average rider'.Please could you offer from your wide experience examples of long brevets where the majority of riders didn't finish (in time). Where could one find/research those stats? As a relative newcomer, I can only think of the first Mille Pennines (2016) only 38 out 90? finished: btw I suspect "the majority of properly prepared riders [did] finish" MP1K 2016. I was not among that elite but, on the plus side, I did return to finish the business with a successful (if lanterne rouge) ride in 2017. I was better prepared, had a better plan (informed by the previous year's experience) and the conditions were better. The ride's finish rate was near 2/3rds, and that success rate was replicated last year (with me in the kitchen / behind the counter for 3 nights, that time).
PBP has the longest history and largest population of riders, so statistics are easy. About 1 in 7 DNF PBP in a good year and about 2 in 7 DNF in a bad year. There have been several 1200s with DNF rates of 1 in 2 starters. I'd say that something was obviously wrong with those events, in the absence of horrendous weather. Those events were DNFing the majority of the average riders. In between those statistics is a reasonable threshold for DNF but I'm not sure where that is.
Time is almost always an issue! Are these people still riding bikes? If so, I would think they could have completed LEL2017... eventually ... given time off to fix/moderate their pain/injury.
As you haven't given any details, I have no idea if this stands up. [Most injuries can be managed by reduced effort and/or speed.]
Time is almost always an issue! Are these people still riding bikes? If so, I would think they could have completed LEL2017... eventually ... given time off to fix/moderate their pain/injury.
Given a couple of months, they could have probably completed, but it's pedantic... the point is that it wasn't a case of being out of time by a few hours or a day
Please could you offer from your wide experience examples of long brevets where the majority of riders didn't finish (in time). Where could one find/research those stats? As a relative newcomer, I can only think of the first Mille Pennines (2016) only 38 out 90? finished: btw I suspect "the majority of properly prepared riders [did] finish" MP1K 2016. I was not among that elite but, on the plus side, I did return to finish the business with a successful (if lanterne rouge) ride in 2017. I was better prepared, had a better plan (informed by the previous year's experience) and the conditions were better. The ride's finish rate was near 2/3rds, and that success rate was replicated last year (with me in the kitchen / behind the counter for 3 nights, that time).
In physics, the accordion effect, known also as the slinky effect, concertina effect, elastic band effect, and string instability, occurs when fluctuations in the motion of a travelling body causes disruptions in the flow of elements following it. This can happen in road traffic, foot marching, bicycle and motor racing, and, in general, to processes in a pipeline. These are examples of nonlinear processes. The accordion effect generally decreases the throughput of the system in which it occurs.
SNIP
examples of long brevets where the majority of riders didn't finish (in time). Where could one find/research those stats? As a relative newcomer, I can only think of the first Mille Pennines (2016) only 38 out 90? finished: btw I suspect "the majority of properly prepared riders [did] finish" MP1K 2016.
SNIP
The wind in 2017 was vicious. I would count it as adverse weather. Without that wind I suspect the DNF would have been closer to the norm. A good way to find out would be to look at times up to Louth southbound and times at Loughton. The data is there if anyone wants to crunch it.
Absolutely the worst conditions I've ever seen on LEL from 2001 onwards were on Yad Moss from 11am on Wednesday, Southbound, on LEL 2017. We'd started filming at about 7am, and followed riders over to the white barn towards Langdon Beck. We then returned, stopping at Drew's van, I dropped Dave off in Alston, and drove back to Brampton to swap Heather's car for my motorbike.
...
Having said that, controllers were reporting that many of the field were behind schedule from Barnard Castle onwards, Northbound.
The wind in 2017 was vicious. I would count it as adverse weather. Without that wind I suspect the DNF would have been closer to the norm. A good way to find out would be to look at times up to Louth southbound and times at Loughton. The data is there if anyone wants to crunch it.
The data doesn't back up this assessment. LEL 2017 lost 433 people between Louth northbound and Louth southbound. It lost 104 between Louth and Loughton. If you were still in the game at the start of the Fens there was a 90% chance you'd be a finisher.
The data points to the North British hills being a bigger problem than the Dutch ones.
We set it out to make it gorgeous.
I packed at Brampton northbound because I knew I wasn't heading north fast enough.
That was another factor. 100 hour riders who weren't proceeding as modelled.Most definitely; arrival times at <location> are skewed more towards closing time the further along the route they are, bumping into folks who've only just enough time and pulling them into the bulge.
Sure, there is always a risk of DNFing a long brevet but the majority of properly prepared riders should finish. Time limits are set to be somewhat challenging but quite achievable by the 'average rider'.Please could you offer from your wide experience examples of long brevets where the majority of riders didn't finish (in time). Where could one find/research those stats? As a relative newcomer, I can only think of the first Mille Pennines (2016) only 38 out 90? finished: btw I suspect "the majority of properly prepared riders [did] finish" MP1K 2016. I was not among that elite but, on the plus side, I did return to finish the business with a successful (if lanterne rouge) ride in 2017. I was better prepared, had a better plan (informed by the previous year's experience) and the conditions were better. The ride's finish rate was near 2/3rds, and that success rate was replicated last year (with me in the kitchen / behind the counter for 3 nights, that time).
PBP has the longest history and largest population of riders, so statistics are easy. About 1 in 7 DNF PBP in a good year and about 2 in 7 DNF in a bad year. There have been several 1200s with DNF rates of 1 in 2 starters. I'd say that something was obviously wrong with those events, in the absence of horrendous weather. Those events were DNFing the majority of the average riders. In between those statistics is a reasonable threshold for DNF but I'm not sure where that is.
Long rides are hard - organisers can offer and publicise the challenge, design an attractive and safe route with accessible start/finish, maybe select a time of year when ephemeral and weather conditions are benign, describe as much or as little support as they wish, deliver that with the help of volunteers (in the main) for all riders, hope that the event captures riders' imaginations, that the entries roll in, and that the DNSs are few. After that it's up to each individual rider and their mount.
(Almost completely OT) The Tour of Yorkshire went through a place called Pocklington yesterday - I assume it was the Pocklington...
the dropping of the 100 hr group for multiple groups should help the DNF rate as many DNFs unwisely opted for an early start and 17 hours less to complete the ride
My current plan is to have a single group at 5am, with the main group trickled out between 6am and 2pm. The aim is to get the timing right to fill Malton, Hessle and Louth on the first night, with as many people as possible getting to Dunfermline on night 2. Both Dunfermline and Moffat are huge controls so I would like to fill them.It will be great to cycle through Edinburgh and use that cycle route (which we used on the West Highland 1000 last year). Care will be needed for the stretches where the path is used both ways. And meet head on the 'you're not seeing any of the city of Edinburgh if you stop short at Gilmerton' criticism. The Forth Road Bridge images will be an excellent substitute for the Castle Howard images.
This early start and long first day should help people cover as much ground as possible northbound.
That's the plan, anyway.
I'm confused. I can't think of any path that's been built to the FRB since 2017. And I live here.
Cycling past Haymarket is notoriously nasty. There's a funny looking painted lane which has reduced the accident rate somewhat according to Spokes (the local cycle campaign).
How spread out will the field be by then? I mean, if you went and stood outside Haymarket station would you notice that anything unusual was going on?
I suppose I could volunteer to be junction steward for a bit!!
How spread out will the field be by then? I mean, if you went and stood outside Haymarket station would you notice that anything unusual was going on?1300 spread out over 36 hours with the 'bulge' being maybe 800 over 16 hours (so less than one a minute, on average, maybe peaking at 20 every 10 minutes). On a weekday/night. So at Haymarket that'd be 'noise' during the rush hours (from my observations one Friday evening in June, 5-7pm)
I suppose I could volunteer to be junction steward for a bit!!
I'm confused. I can't think of any path that's been built to the FRB since 2017. And I live here.
Cycling past Haymarket is notoriously nasty. There's a funny looking painted lane which has reduced the accident rate somewhat according to Spokes (the local cycle campaign).
How spread out will the field be by then? I mean, if you went and stood outside Haymarket station would you notice that anything unusual was going on?
I suppose I could volunteer to be junction steward for a bit!!
Going through Edinburgh definitely strikes me as a Good Idea. After all, the PBP goes through Brest, and Brest (except for the bridge) is nowhere near as scenic.
My one worry is navigation. Fine if you have a Garmin, but with a routesheet it would be hard work. Even the cycleroute in isn't easy to follow if you don't know it. Perhaps some PBP-style arrows? Don't know how they would stay there, but could definitely be a help.
I'm confused. I can't think of any path that's been built to the FRB since 2017. And I live here.
Cycling past Haymarket is notoriously nasty. There's a funny looking painted lane which has reduced the accident rate somewhat according to Spokes (the local cycle campaign).
How spread out will the field be by then? I mean, if you went and stood outside Haymarket station would you notice that anything unusual was going on?
I suppose I could volunteer to be junction steward for a bit!!
The LEL route and controls were sorted long before (other than late amendments that became necessary)
2017 so anything built in 2017 wasn't available as an option during planning of the route that end and booking of the Edinburgh control etc. Imagine something being built in 2021 that doesn't fit with the chosen controls here in 2019. You would not expect the route and control location to change last minute to take advantage of it.
there's tidier ways to the castle from the Roseburn path than going into Haymarket yards but involves the potential for dealing with more traffic; I'll need to find the route we used to get to POP a few years back.
You could put bar stewards outside Monty's Bar near Haymarket. :facepalm:
You could put bar stewards outside Monty's Bar near Haymarket. :facepalm:
If Monty's bar was a control I would be a DNF. I'd reach Edinburgh fine...
I disagree. Most folk prefer success to failure, particularly for something that you get one chance at every four years at best. Some riders react quite badly to not finishing a brevet in time, so not a "good time" for them and the negative effects on those riders can linger. Success breeds success and the converse is also true.
Can get onto Charlotte Street/Square from Dean using randolph cresence, and then cross princess street to turn left onto Lothian road.
I’d suggest heading out of town on the route Pingu posted, but getting to it from the South Side via George IV Bridge / The Mound / Hanover St. / Dundas St. and joining Feanor’s route at Canonmills.
That gives you plenty of tourist interest (Greyfriars Bobby, Old Town / Royal Mile, close view of the castle, festival crowds and street entertainment outside the National Galleries, through the heart of the New Town) great views across the city and over the Forth (if the weather is clear), you cross the tram tracks at a right angle, the zoom down Dundas St is great, and the navigation is easy.
I’d suggest heading out of town on the route Pingu posted, but getting to it from the South Side via George IV Bridge / The Mound / Hanover St. / Dundas St. and joining Feanor’s route at Canonmills.This is exactly the route I thought best and had intended to post. Sending cyclists (even bike pushing pedestrians) down the Royal Mile in August wouldnt be my choice. George IV bridge / Mound crosses it and gives to anyone so inclined the option to go up to the castle and/or down the mile to Parliament
I . . . have cycled through [Edinburgh] twice . . . Each time was fraught with trouble . . . .Any suggestions at cycling through Edinburgh or anywhere near the centre need to be very closely looked at . . . Move forward with this idea with caution.But others have expressed disappointment that this UK flagship long distance ride goes all the way to the suburbs but then doesn't visit Scotland's fantastic capital. @alwyn's 2021 project aims to consummate our trip across the border. And the Forth Road Bridge is a spectacular extra.
My offer of help as an EH12 resident (and experienced event organiser) remains open.
I packed at Brampton northbound because I knew I wasn't heading north fast enough.
That was another factor. 100 hour riders who weren't proceeding as modelled.
https://vimeo.com/333790058
heres my tuppenceworth.
The Roseburn - FRB via the tarmac cycle path is a no brainer ie using the same route as my Auld Alliance and WH1000 last year.
Id give up on a route going by any specific city centre tourist attractions given the time of year and navigational difficulties inherent in larger cities. Crossing the Forth (twice) is iconic enough IMHO.
No need for stewards at Haymarket.
My offer of help as an EH12 resident (and experienced event organiser) remains open.
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29912943
Is the idea to cross Edinburgh twice, or take a direct route from Moffat to the Forth bridge?
Is the idea to cross Edinburgh twice, or take a direct route from Moffat to the Forth bridge?oh yes of course, the direct route needs to go no closer to Embra than Newbridge.
I can understand that you might not want to have to walk, but that could well happen regardless of the route through town. The traffic free route is also popular with people walking their dog, and I will take a very dim view of any rider who is any less than utterly civil and polite in yielding to anyone on foot.
I can understand that you might not want to have to walk, but that could well happen regardless of the route through town. The traffic free route is also popular with people walking their dog, and I will take a very dim view of any rider who is any less than utterly civil and polite in yielding to anyone on foot.
I have no problem with dog walkers, slow urban cyclist or the odd person walking
I know that it's difficult to make an un-dangerous route into most urban centres. Most cities have busy roads in their middle
However, if the official route is choked with push chairs, people walking their dog, joggers with headphones on etc etc then I'd rather risk my life with HGVs turning left and so on. Often this sort of thing is very sensitive to the time of day and the weather
I'll ask locals for a definitive opinion nearer the time once the route is decided
In that case, LEL2021 probably isn’t the event for you.
Having realised that the requirement is only one way ie N/W -> S/E Id say that this is as good as it gets if you want to see the sights.
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29919352
Points to note
- 1st 11 km is on NCN and the majority is on a nice tarmac bike path (as per Auld Alliance & WH1000)
- This does not cross the tram lines at Haymarket, it stays parallel to them all the way to Sth St Andrew Street. The "dodgy" tram line crossing at Haymarket only happens if youre heading West so thats avoided.
- The crossing of the tram lines is at an oblique angle but is easily made into a 90 degree turn by a quick "keep left to cross right" turn. As a comparison I recall crossing a railway line on the Green & Yellow 300 on Saturday that was at a less favourable angle and which had zero warning in advance.
Is the idea to cross Edinburgh twice, or take a direct route from Moffat to the Forth bridge?
That's a good point. The Deloitte 'Ride Across Britain' will go up to Abington, then to Hopetoun for an overnight stay. https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29222267
The Pentland Hills dictate that to a large extent. The desire for more interest by passing through Edinburgh may result in more riding next to the M74, on poor surfaces. Clydesdale's nice though.
Re the return leg through Edinburgh, suspending the mandatory route but recommending the North Edinburgh Path Network of quiet, repurposed railway lines would give a reasonably safe back-road/off-road route through the city that could pass through the Royal Park (Arthur's Seat) on its way south but also allow people to take a short detour into the city centre if they wish. I agree with FIMM about the tram tracks.
My chosen route from Moffat to FRB (variations on Fifeingeejits suggestion) would be : https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29933515
My chosen route from Moffat to FRB (variations on Fifeingeejits suggestion) would be : https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29933515
100+ km? That's going to be one the longest stretch without a control. Hopefully not too many reach Moffat on Monday night and decide to leave it till the morning like they did for Louth-Pocklington.
100+ km? That's going to be one the longest stretch without a control. Hopefully not too many reach Moffat on Monday night and decide to leave it till the morning like they did for Louth-Pocklington.What's the issue with sleeping at Moffat and riding to Dunfermline in the morning/dawn? I estimate the bulge (max plus one SD) will not reach Moffat till dawn on Tuesday. I think Brampton will be a more likely 'pinch-point' (0600-1200 starts).
What's the issue with sleeping at Moffat and riding to Dunfermline in the morning/dawn?
What's the issue with sleeping at Moffat and riding to Dunfermline in the morning/dawn?
Nothing, unless everyone else chooses the same plan!
I think you're right that the bulge shouldn't reach Moffat by Monday night, although with earlier start times (I can't find the comment now) it'll reach further than it did in 2017.
And people (especially me) will hopefully have learnt from 2017 that the way to not DNF is to not fuck about on the first half of the ride.
This is an area and roads I know well and ride a lot.
My chosen route from Moffat to FRB (variations on Fifeingeejits suggestion) would be : https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29933515
See alwyn's OP "starting slots between 06:00 and 12:00 for people who want a 125 hour limit."What's the issue with sleeping at Moffat and riding to Dunfermline in the morning/dawn?Nothing, unless everyone else chooses the same plan!
I think you're right that the bulge shouldn't reach Moffat by Monday night, although with earlier start times (I can't find the comment now) it'll reach further than it did in 2017.
The organization was absolutely superb. For a ride that was originally supposed to be 700 riders and turned into 1100, it was amazing.https://roadpixie.blogspot.com/2013/?fbclid=IwAR3W_XTbHMAmyQ41gvQqaofrQtmP_TEgcAGqmqODE0W-766aQGPlKERoM1s
I can see the logic in extending the ride in order to get over 1500km, and have a more relaxed timetable. But that evolves from the decision to cross the Humber Bridge, then to include Louth in the route. I do wonder if the course is being forced too far from the obvious line. In other words 'Why Louth'.
To help visualise the lines LEL 2017 took, here's a 'straight line' plot:I can see the logic in extending the ride in order to get over 1500km, and have a more relaxed timetable. But that evolves from the decision to cross the Humber Bridge, then to include Louth in the route. I do wonder if the course is being forced too far from the obvious line. In other words 'Why Louth'.
Interesting point. I can't say that I was that enamoured with the Humber Bridge and certainly not with getting on and off it. I am sure that others will disagree, but I would have preferred a more westerly and direct route to South Yorkshire, as in the 2009 edition. However, I can understand the organisers' desire to make the route more interesting for overseas visitors too, and my comment should be taken as a personal preference rather than a criticism.
Michele Braugher mentions that in her report.Made link more direct - a report well worth a read.QuoteThe organization was absolutely superb. For a ride that was originally supposed to be 700 riders and turned into 1100, it was amazing.https://roadpixie.blogspot.com/2013/08/
Many of the lanes were unnamed, and that meant the roads were also unnamed on the cue sheet. Thus, a cue might read: "soon R Green Bank no sign" or "follow road on sharp L bend no sign." In those places it was critical to have your computer synched to the section of the course you were on.http://ncrandonneur.blogspot.com/2009/08/roads-of-lel-2009.html
Even many of the wider roads had a lane feel, especially on the southern end of the course, because there were rarely drainage ditches. Hedges and undergrowth were allowed to grow right up to the asphalt's edge.
The very best roads were the deserted stretches through the glacially carved grassy canyons of Scotland. The roads were no different than what we'd seen before but they transported us into a pastoral backdrop unlike anything I'd ever seen before. That leg of our route -- especially with a trailing wind -- was pure magic and by itself worth the price of admission.
This is an area and roads I know well and ride a lot.
My chosen route from Moffat to FRB (variations on Fifeingeejits suggestion) would be : https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29933515
Ta, will need to remember this thread next time I need to head that way :-)
This is an area and roads I know well and ride a lot.
My chosen route from Moffat to FRB (variations on Fifeingeejits suggestion) would be : https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29933515
Ta, will need to remember this thread next time I need to head that way :-)
+1 for that. Thanks for the route through the Calders and Livingston - very useful.
Michael Broadwith went from Abington to the Bridge on his End to End. Which tends to suggest that it's the fastest way. https://frrt.org/endtoend2018/map?center=54.63570,-3.93311&zoom=5.
<snipped> The most commented on parts of the LEL are Teesdale/Yad Moss/Tynedale, The Granites to Langholm, and the Castle Howard complex. The Howardian Hills roller coaster gets a mixed response, but forms part of the Castle Howard section. I'd always take time to set up for those sections.
The sections further South are more generic. <snipped>
Well, that's pretty much a given if the chosen controls are Moffat and Dunfermline. Even the most direct of routes from Moffat will result in 100km+ !!My chosen route from Moffat to FRB (variations on Fifeingeejits suggestion) would be : https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29933515
100+ km? That's going to be one the longest stretch without a control. Hopefully not too many reach Moffat on Monday night and decide to leave it till the morning like they did for Louth-Pocklington.
Well, that's pretty much a given if the chosen controls are Moffat and Dunfermline. Even the most direct of routes from Moffat will result in 100km+ !!My chosen route from Moffat to FRB (variations on Fifeingeejits suggestion) would be : https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29933515
100+ km? That's going to be one the longest stretch without a control. Hopefully not too many reach Moffat on Monday night and decide to leave it till the morning like they did for Louth-Pocklington.
This route avoids the heaviest trafficed/fast A roads in the main, sticking to pleasant country roads that have little traffic. A small cycle path diversion to avoid the big Lizzie Bryce roundabout on the A71 - though I think I personally would take the road. Possibly a different matter (or risk assessment) for non-locals and tired Audaxers.
There are slightly more direct routes using either the A701 South of the Pentlands, or the A70 North, and while neither are particularly heavily trafficed (for A roads), they still have their share of fast and potentially impatient traffic.
Anyway, just presenting options from local knowledge and experience - at the end of the day the orgs can I'm sure be trusted to present an interesting and viable route.
In 2005 I bought a set of Touring Maps for Motorcyclists from Lidl. They're waterproof, and a convenient scale. They're based on German mapping, and they have scenic roads marked with green dots. Those dotted routes are therefore the more desirable roads to tour in the UK. Barnard Castle to Brampton features.
There's a big cluster of routes in the Borders. The roads are obviously going to vary in suitability for sending 1,500 cyclists down. There are loads around Peebles. It's quite difficult to devise a route to Edinburgh that avoids those scenic roads. The Broadwith LEJOG route nearly gets there.
Thanks, good idea. I had a quick look in Aldi and Lidl this afternoon but no luck. I think Michelin maps have that feature as well so I'll try those too.
This latest proposal by Edinburgh Council (Meadows to George Street Cycling/walking improvements) might help with joining up a sensible route through the City Centre.
If it gets through planning and completed in time, obviously
https://meadowstogeorgestreet.info/project-details/ (https://meadowstogeorgestreet.info/project-details/)
Will there still be an option to avoid the A74 in 2021?
This was the part of the route I enjoyed most in 2017 - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/22451603
Will there still be an option to avoid the A74 in 2021?
This was the part of the route I enjoyed most in 2017 - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/22451603
Will there still be an option to avoid the A74 in 2021?
This was the part of the route I enjoyed most in 2017 - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/22451603
The section north from Boreland towards Moffat has been repaired since 2017. So I would hope that it would be back on the recommended route.
Will there still be an option to avoid the A74 in 2021?
This was the part of the route I enjoyed most in 2017 - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/22451603
The section north from Boreland towards Moffat has been repaired since 2017. So I would hope that it would be back on the recommended route.
Thanks for all the input. It's all very useful :thumbsup:
Alwyn and I will revisit the route through the capital, as we were discussing several options. At the end of the day, a few minutes hike-a-bike through the dead centre is nought compared to 120 hours pedalling the rest of the way. It's still a couple of years off, we still intend to take you through some of the best bits ;)
Some of my Randonneurs NL friends have asked me about how they can ride 2021. Most of them aren't AUK members, and won't have the number of LRM rides for a guaranteed place.
What are the options? I'd like to be able to give a useful answer then they ask next.
J
Ive ridden up and down Princes St Edinburgh a few times with a not very confident cyclist to get an alternative view on the tramlines. I updated Wilkyboy verbally at Red Lodge on the Flatlands (though i got there with just 12 mins to spare due to a visitation or 3 so was a bit breathless).
Id be suggesting a Craigleith - Inverleith Park - Holyrood - Commonwealth Pool route. Inverleith Park offers great views of the castle eg is used for viewing of the twice yearly fireworks. A close up of Holyrood Palace is nice too.
It will be a bit towny between Inverleith Row and Holyrood but nothing dramatic.
Ive ridden up and down Princes St Edinburgh a few times with a not very confident cyclist to get an alternative view on the tramlines. I updated Wilkyboy verbally at Red Lodge on the Flatlands (though i got there with just 12 mins to spare due to a visitation or 3 so was a bit breathless).
Id be suggesting a Craigleith - Inverleith Park - Holyrood - Commonwealth Pool route. Inverleith Park offers great views of the castle eg is used for viewing of the twice yearly fireworks. A close up of Holyrood Palace is nice too.
It will be a bit towny between Inverleith Row and Holyrood but nothing dramatic.
And of course this route allows for a cheeky flyby past Hogwarts. ;)
Ive ridden up and down Princes St Edinburgh a few times with a not very confident cyclist to get an alternative view on the tramlines. I updated Wilkyboy verbally at Red Lodge on the Flatlands (though i got there with just 12 mins to spare due to a visitation or 3 so was a bit breathless).
Id be suggesting a Craigleith - Inverleith Park - Holyrood - Commonwealth Pool route. Inverleith Park offers great views of the castle eg is used for viewing of the twice yearly fireworks. A close up of Holyrood Palace is nice too.
It will be a bit towny between Inverleith Row and Holyrood but nothing dramatic.
I am so slow of thought (and reading skillz) that I've only just noticed the new August start date! :facepalm:
What was the reason for moving it?
Our current estimate is about 1530km and 14,500m, but all that could change.Horse's mouth! If the estimate for 2021 is 14000+m using the same plotting application, what was LEL 2017?
Our current estimate is about 1530km and 14,500m, but all that could change.Horse's mouth! If the estimate for 2021 is 14000+m using the same plotting application, what was LEL 2017?
The RwGPS plot of the route I took in 2017 (some variations from your excellent routecards, part by design, part through error) suggested less than 10000m of climb.
The route is probably 60% the same as 2017. The other 40% there's a completely new section through Yorkshire in both directions, and from Moffat to Dunfermline and back thru Edinburgh before picking up the classic route south through the Borders. Plus some alterations along the way for a bit of variety from 2017. However, whether we get out much this year to check all the options and decide the exact route or not will depend on the level of epidemic here in the UK.He also shared his replot of the 2017 route: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/32189904?beta=false
Our current estimate is about 1530km and 14,500m, but all that could change.
I'd be mildly interested to know where an extra 3000m of scenery might be 'discovered'. Maybe the stretch from Longtown to Moffat and through Edinburgh.
I think lots of potential riders (like myself) would be interested in the route and its gestation, even at this distance.
The event is still well over year away, possibly two (depending on how this virus-wotsit carries on).
FWIW this is the most precient post I've seen for a very long time. To run in 2021 a decision will have to be made very early in the year, monies laid out, deposits paid, etc. That's a big risk. I'm glad Danial does this so I don't have to. That's a big decision.The event is still well over year away, possibly two (depending on how this virus-wotsit carries on).
Close (to 1500km) by design.
Why don't you have a read of the LEL 2021 Route thread? ::-)
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=111765.0
I believe LRM is now allowing extra time for "hillyness" when the organiser requests it. In light of the additional 3000m sight seeing, will there be a AAAllowance? (hey, more time to enjoy the food at the controls, right? ;D)
I doubt there will be any allowance, the route is generally still less than the UKClearly you expect 2021 to be hillier than 2017, but to support your generalisation, even the 2017 stretch that might offer the highest climb for distance percentage (going on the profile) - crossing under the M1 going north to the top of Yad Moss going south was 465km and (according to my plot) 4710m: dead on the 1% normal for UK.average"norm" of 1% and waaaay less than AAA territory (apart from a few places).
TBH you shouldn't need it — the bump from 1400 to 1500 already provides a nice drop in minimum speed that gives quite a few extra hours.
The route is flat. Apart from the hilly bits, which are quite hilly ::-)
I doubt there will be any allowance, the route is generally still less than the UKaverage"norm" of 1% and waaaay less than AAA territory (apart from a few places).
The 2013 & 2017 editions had 2.75AAA, but not sure exactly how that was arrived at. As I recall, when reviewing the new assessment tool, the ~600km section north of the Tees was just under the AAA threshold, I suspect the new route will be adding more distance than climbing so unlikely to qualify.
I doubt there will be any allowance, the route is generally still less than the UKaverage"norm" of 1% and waaaay less than AAA territory (apart from a few places).
The 2013 & 2017 editions had 2.75AAA, but not sure exactly how that was arrived at. As I recall, when reviewing the new assessment tool, the ~600km section north of the Tees was just under the AAA threshold, I suspect the new route will be adding more distance than climbing so unlikely to qualify.
The 2013 & 2017 editions had 2.75AAA, but not sure exactly how that was arrived at. As I recall, when reviewing the new assessment tool, the ~600km section north of the Tees was just under the AAA threshold, I suspect the new route will be adding more distance than climbing so unlikely to qualify.
There's very little LEL happening at the moment.
The 2013 & 2017 editions had 2.75AAA, but not sure exactly how that was arrived at. As I recall, when reviewing the new assessment tool, the ~600km section north of the Tees was just under the AAA threshold, I suspect the new route will be adding more distance than climbing so unlikely to qualify.
There's very little LEL happening at the moment.
If the team are still pondering the route from Dunfermline HS to the Edinburgh bypass its something that Im reasonably well placed to do even while were under current restrictions as I can still get out for an hour or so at routechecking pace.
To recap -
Heres what ridewithgps gives as the default https://ridewithgps.com/routes/32261019 37km. Loads of flaws. Nobody would sensibly suggest going this way.
Heres the shortest distance I can establish https://ridewithgps.com/routes/32261043 33.3km. Doable, crosses the tramline at 90 deg but the bit on the A90 would be horrid esp on a weekday.
Here is my suggestion https://ridewithgps.com/routes/32260975 36.5km.
No tramlines
No huge cobbles (Im sure but can check)
A close up of Holyrood Palace, Parliament & Arthurs Seat.
Doesnt add huge distance and from the Commonwealth Pool its the standard Edinburgh Road Club route south out the city. Ferry Rd and Picardy Place isnt anybodys idea of dream cycling I'll grant you but at least these junctions have traffic lights
Likewise if you need any help fine tuning the Dunfermline bit I am happy to help.
This is the route I would use to get to the FRB from Dunfermline High School - it avoids/minimises the A985 and Queensferry Road in Dunfermline both of which can be unpleasantly busy. Of those two routes, the back road route down Grange Road is probably preferrable as long as you watch out for glass in the underpass (I was thinking some of us volunteering at the high school could probably go out and sweep the underpass)
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/32278432
Also just remembered that there is a mahoosive housing development planned just off Grange road
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/fife/781271/green-light-for-massive-dunfermline-development/amp/
There is no sign of any works just now but I guess there is the potential for Grange road to be much busier depending on when they start and if they use other access roads.