Author Topic: Really bad books you've read  (Read 20845 times)

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #125 on: 24 December, 2020, 10:08:04 am »
I didn't hate the book – it's a fascinating story – but I agree with Deflatus that the confusion seemed engineered (or they really couldn't afford editors). I'm not sure the benefit other than to make it seem a bit cleverer. I don't believe there's anyone who read it and didn't get confused, because at times there was no possible way to know without going back and trying to build a map of who was talking to who. The simple expedient of using a name would have solved it and made the entire book a lot more readable. But of course, wouldn't have been clever.

I just checked my notes to remind myself what I thought of it at the time. My verdict was that it was an effective distancing device. I used the term "close third person" which I thought maybe I'd invented but the internet tells me otherwise. In any case, my feeling was that it gave some of the benefits of a first person perspective - an intimacy with the character's inner thoughts and feelings - without being compromised by questions over the narrator's reliability.

And I honestly, truly did not find it difficult to follow. Which isn't a sign of being clever, only that it clicked for me in a way it apparently didn't for other people. Maybe it helped that I read both Wolf Hall and Bring Up The Bodies on holiday, over a short period, with no real distractions.

Conversely, I had real problems getting into A Place Of Greater Safety, to the extent that I put it down after about 100 pages and have never got round to picking it up again. It's more conventional in style but has an even larger cast than Wolf Hall, and I couldn't keep track of who was who. But I do want to give it another go at some point, when I'm in the right frame of mind. That and Les Miserables, which is another I've started but couldn't get very far with. Perhaps it's just French Revolutionary Epics that I have a problem with. I've not even considered taking on War & Peace.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Tigerrr

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Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #126 on: 24 December, 2020, 10:42:10 am »
Captain WE Johns wrote some pretty awful stuff. I read everything he wrote. All of Biggles, and also the ones about the commandos. Then Alistair Maclean - some pretty thin stuff there but I loved them. Like Flemings work, they were of their time and are pretty unreadable now.
Humanists UK Funeral and Wedding Celebrant. Trying for godless goodness.
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ian

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #127 on: 24 December, 2020, 10:45:09 am »
It's one of my gripes with modern literature, the disavowal of the simple said. Now there are times when it's not necessary, a conversation is volleying back and forth, or you're got a small number of clearly recognisable conversants, or you've somehow through your ninja writing skills imbued your characters with such personalities that they're recognizable each and every time they open their mouth.

But other times, just tell me who said what. When you're reading, you elide the said anyway (if you trick your brain into seeing, they're tedious though, but in reality, your brain will skip all the said whoevers so there's no need to be scared to use them).

"We not going to get this back in," said Sarah, holding his dripping kidney.
"Not so good at Operation now, are we?"

Of course, it goes the other way, and authors who are scared of the humble verb to say, instead start either try desperately to find alternatives. These do stick.

"That's a terrible job," Mr May ejaculated.
"Oh, you've gotten it everywhere!" Mrs May angrily remarked. "There's paint all over the carpet."

That's stepping back into the literature badlands. If someone is angry and you're using conversation, then the words should express the anger, not an adverb.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #128 on: 24 December, 2020, 10:50:15 am »
ian, you've happily reminded me of one of my favourite passages from any book ever - the scene in Small World by David Lodge where a novelist reveals the cause of his enduring writer's block. As the author of this blog notes, the same passage has clearly impressed others as well...

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000361.html

(It might help to know before reading this that Frobisher, the novelist, is a Stan Barstow/Alan Sillitoe/Keith Waterhouse 'gritty realism' kind of writer.)
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

ian

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #129 on: 24 December, 2020, 11:00:46 am »
I might have been channelling that – it's been a while since I read it.

But it's s truism, if you focus on any given aspect of writing, it will start to haunt you.

It's best to be a hack, of course, then it won't bother you. She cried passionately.

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #130 on: 24 December, 2020, 11:14:07 am »
ian, you've happily reminded me of one of my favourite passages from any book ever - the scene in Small World by David Lodge where a novelist reveals the cause of his enduring writer's block. As the author of this blog notes, the same passage has clearly impressed others as well...

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000361.html

(It might help to know before reading this that Frobisher, the novelist, is a Stan Barstow/Alan Sillitoe/Keith Waterhouse 'gritty realism' kind of writer.)


It's a pity that the 1988 ITV version of "Small World" was never repeated or published on DVD.  I recall it being quite good.   https://thiswayupzine.blogspot.com/2011/08/forgotten-tv-small-world.html
Not fast & rarely furious

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Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #131 on: 24 December, 2020, 11:17:41 am »

"That's a terrible job," Mr May ejaculated.

Lots of ejaculation in Wuthering Heights.

But then it is a love story, I suppose.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #132 on: 24 December, 2020, 11:28:59 am »
It's a pity that the 1988 ITV version of "Small World" was never repeated or published on DVD.  I recall it being quite good.   https://thiswayupzine.blogspot.com/2011/08/forgotten-tv-small-world.html

That completely passed me by, which is disappointing - though I'm not sure if I'd have read the book yet at the time it was aired.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

ian

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #133 on: 24 December, 2020, 11:30:58 am »

"That's a terrible job," Mr May ejaculated.

Lots of ejaculation in Wuthering Heights.

But then it is a love story, I suppose.

Ejaculating out on the wild moors is one thing. In Sainsbury's, it's a different matter.

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #134 on: 24 December, 2020, 11:35:46 am »
I hated the first 400 pages of Wolf Hall

This needs expanding on... did you then enjoy the last 200 pages? Or was that the point at which you stopped reading? If the former, was it worth the effort to get that far? If the latter, why didn’t you stop sooner?

I vaguely recall that the pace does pick up towards the end. I loved it. All 600 pages. And Bring Up The Bodies is even better. Not read the latest one yet - feel I need to read the first two again as a refresher before I take it on.
I gave up about 2 hours into the audio.

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #135 on: 24 December, 2020, 12:30:31 pm »

I just checked my notes to remind myself what I thought of it at the time.

I have never ever taken, or wanted to take, notes about any book I'm reading for enjoyment. That probably explains a lot about my choice of reading matter.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #136 on: 24 December, 2020, 12:32:29 pm »
Captain WE Johns wrote some pretty awful stuff. I read everything he wrote. All of Biggles, and also the ones about the commandos. Then Alistair Maclean - some pretty thin stuff there but I loved them. Like Flemings work, they were of their time and are pretty unreadable now.

See also Hammond Innes, another staple of my youth. Which also included forays into J P Donleavy and Derek Maitland. I'm not as adventurous now.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

DaveJ

  • Happy days
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #137 on: 24 December, 2020, 01:41:40 pm »
Captain WE Johns wrote some pretty awful stuff. I read everything he wrote. All of Biggles, and also the ones about the commandos. Then Alistair Maclean - some pretty thin stuff there but I loved them. Like Flemings work, they were of their time and are pretty unreadable now.

I thought HMS Ulysses might stand the test of time better than the later things Maclean wrote.  I'll have to see if I still have a copy to find out.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #138 on: 24 December, 2020, 02:06:13 pm »

I just checked my notes to remind myself what I thought of it at the time.

I have never ever taken, or wanted to take, notes about any book I'm reading for enjoyment. That probably explains a lot about my choice of reading matter.

My 'notes' are in the form of a short review on Goodreads. I often, but not always, write a review when I finish a book. This is for no one's benefit but my own - I would otherwise forget most of the books I read, and what I thought of them.

For the purposes of this thread, here are some of the books I've rated 1* on Goodreads:
The Art of Fielding - Chad Harbach
Mr Phillips - John Lanchester (I also gave Capital 1* but on reflection, I think that was a bit harsh - it's miles better than Mr Phillips)
The Fun Factory - Chris England
Death Comes To Pemberley - PD James (an insult to Jane Austen)
The Racketeer - John Grisham (I have enjoyed many Grisham books - they're usually lightweight and easily digestible fare, but this was one was rotten)
The Hundred Year Old Man Who Climbed Out Of The Window And Disappeared - Jonas Jonasson (Ugh! I'd forgotten this one. Truly awful.)
Remarkable Creatures - Tracy Chevalier

I tend to be quite generous with my ratings, so will only give 1* to books I really couldn't stand. But even these I could stand enough to finish them at least.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

ian

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #139 on: 24 December, 2020, 02:29:15 pm »
I rarely review books. I was evidently annoyed by something called Brilliance and which wasn't because it's there on Amazon (55 people found it helpful, ha). If I recall I was mostly annoyed that it bazillions of five-star reviews and yet was a triple-flusher, a veritable battleship of the u-bend. A correction to the false order of things was necessary. Cost me 99p too.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #140 on: 24 December, 2020, 07:44:05 pm »
Captain WE Johns wrote some pretty awful stuff. I read everything he wrote. All of Biggles, and also the ones about the commandos. Then Alistair Maclean - some pretty thin stuff there but I loved them. Like Flemings work, they were of their time and are pretty unreadable now.

I thought HMS Ulysses might stand the test of time better than the later things Maclean wrote.  I'll have to see if I still have a copy to find out.

His more military/naval based stuff stands up better than his agent of derring-do stuff.

There is also a short story collection of his which I think is particularly good.  I have almost the full collection, not sure why but I've decided I want all of his, Iain (& M) Banks, and already have a boxed set of Fleming, not because I think they's high literature, but they are sort of definitive examples of their respective kinds
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #141 on: 24 December, 2020, 08:28:03 pm »

I just checked my notes to remind myself what I thought of it at the time.

I have never ever taken, or wanted to take, notes about any book I'm reading for enjoyment. That probably explains a lot about my choice of reading matter.

My 'notes' are in the form of a short review on Goodreads. I often, but not always, write a review when I finish a book. This is for no one's benefit but my own - I would otherwise forget most of the books I read, and what I thought of them.

For the purposes of this thread, here are some of the books I've rated 1* on Goodreads:
The Art of Fielding - Chad Harbach
Mr Phillips - John Lanchester (I also gave Capital 1* but on reflection, I think that was a bit harsh - it's miles better than Mr Phillips)
The Fun Factory - Chris England
Death Comes To Pemberley - PD James (an insult to Jane Austen)
The Racketeer - John Grisham (I have enjoyed many Grisham books - they're usually lightweight and easily digestible fare, but this was one was rotten)
The Hundred Year Old Man Who Climbed Out Of The Window And Disappeared - Jonas Jonasson (Ugh! I'd forgotten this one. Truly awful.)
Remarkable Creatures - Tracy Chevalier

I tend to be quite generous with my ratings, so will only give 1* to books I really couldn't stand. But even these I could stand enough to finish them at least.
The only one in your list I've read, or even contemplated reading. It hasn't particularly lodged in my memory – what did you dislike so much about it?
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #142 on: 24 December, 2020, 09:05:25 pm »
Quote
Remarkable Creatures - Tracy Chevalier
The only one in your list I've read, or even contemplated reading. It hasn't particularly lodged in my memory – what did you dislike so much about it?

It's the worst kind of historical fiction - lots of entirely made-up detail that felt gratingly inauthentic, including a nauseating sex scene. I was left feeling there's probably a much more interesting story to be told about Mary Anning's struggle to gain recognition for her work.

<checks notes>

Also the awful dialogue, apparently, which I don't remember but noted was a clunky attempt at period style that was full of anachronisms. And a cringeworthy invocation of Jane Austen (which at least was based on a real event, to be fair).
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #143 on: 24 December, 2020, 09:08:58 pm »
Fair points, I'd forgotten about the sex scene but now you've jogged my memory, I think she jumps out on the semi-aristocratic character while he's on his horse and they roll about in the moss, after which she treasures the event as her one sexual encounter for the rest of her life. Something like that?
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #144 on: 24 December, 2020, 09:38:43 pm »
Quote from: Tigerrr
Captain WE Johns wrote some pretty awful stuff.
The 9 YO Lurker would disagree quite strongly with you on that. :)

I still have "266" & "Flies to Work" as well as my Uncle's copy of "Charter Pilot".  Of the three, "266" is definitely the best and feels grounded in reality.  I still read it when the fancy takes me.  The other two haven't stood the test of time quite so well and aren't much more than very run of the mill "derring do" tales hung on a tenuous aero hook. "Charter Pilot" is particularly poor.
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Really bad books you've read
« Reply #145 on: 24 December, 2020, 09:42:05 pm »
Something like that?

Yes, that sounds about right.

It felt like she had suddenly realised her character’s real life was actually pretty boring so she had to invent some salacious detail to give her a bit of colour.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #146 on: 24 December, 2020, 09:59:26 pm »
After reading this thread, I happened to be at my local bus shelter-come-book-swap, and spotted a copy of Wolf Hall, and brought it home in my saddlebag.

The first page has a handwritten note: "Abandoned this one    Pam" :)

I'll give it a go and see if I do better than Pam.


Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #147 on: 24 December, 2020, 11:48:08 pm »
... Iain (& M) Banks, ...
I dislike Banks (and Vonnegut) intensely but I don't know that I would describe either of them as Bad, let alone Really Bad.  It could be just my bad luck but both Banks books I read basically ended with "and then I woke up and it was all a dream" - something that I was told was unacceptable at a primary school level.  Vonnegut has some interesting ideas, but I have never sympathised with any characters in any of his books (I've read three or four) which means that frankly I couldn't care less what happens.
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #148 on: 24 December, 2020, 11:58:50 pm »
No one has mentioned RR Tolkein yet. Managed to finish the sodding Hobbit to then find we had todo it in school *snore*. Over-hyped excessively verbose and turgid... Haven't been able to read any of the others.

Anything by Nina Bawden, also favoured of school English teachers. Blarg.

As I read very fast I am able to read even bad fiction and not care. I've even read at least one Dan Brown (there was nothing else in the house what we were staying in to read and it was before ebooks).

Struggling to think of other bad books I have tried or failed to read. I can't get into classic stuff like Austen or Dickens as I find the prose style so dull I can't get anything from them.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #149 on: 25 December, 2020, 09:39:05 am »
I can't get into classic stuff like Austen or Dickens as I find the prose style so dull I can't get anything from them.

Austen is nothing like Dickens though. Dickens is prime paid-by-the-word Victoriana. Austen’s prose is light and fluffy by comparison.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."