Author Topic: Manual burr coffee grinders..? (Read 3995 times)

andyoxon · « **on:** 16 December, 2015, 11:14:15 am »

As an occasional espresso drinker, have just ordered one of these:
Hario Medium Glass Hand Coffee Grinder with Ceramic Burrs
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001802PIQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

Someone said to me 'why did you get a manual, when you could have gone electric'? What are your thoughts on manual v electric grinders?

Dibdib · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 December, 2015, 12:46:52 pm »

Electric grinders are great, and I love mine, but a decently consistent one is likely to be a lot more spendy than a comparable hand grinder.

As a data point, after living with a hand grinder for a while, my second-hand Iberital was bought for £80 from a forumite (thanks AWL). There's no way I could have justified paying full whack for a brand new one.

fuaran · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 December, 2015, 07:10:45 pm »

Also an electric grinder needs yet another plug socket in the kitchen, and takes up more space etc. And probably noisier.

contango · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 December, 2015, 03:12:11 am »

Quote from: fuaran on 16 December, 2015, 07:10:45 pm

Also an electric grinder needs yet another plug socket in the kitchen, and takes up more space etc. And probably noisier.

... but also a lot faster, especially if you want to grind a lot of coffee.

T42 · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 December, 2015, 07:51:42 am »

An electric grinder that produces the same quality as your Hario will cost you 8-10 times more. And if everyone round the table wants an espresso, let 'em grind their own.

TimO · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 December, 2015, 02:24:15 pm »

Yes, to what everyone else has said.

I've got a grinder very similar to the one you've just purchased, and it'll grind enough coffee for a double espresso in a minute or two, depending on how fast you turn it. I'll occasionally grind two or three times as much, to take into work, and it really doesn't take very long.

ElyDave · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 December, 2015, 02:42:26 pm »

I bought an electric burr grinder recently to replace an old manual one. Very happy with it so far.

T42 · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 December, 2015, 04:59:46 pm »

I have a Porlex that I use for the moka pot. It takes 100-120 turns to grind 15 grammes of my usual roast, but with a dark roast it can go up to 130-140. Haven't worked out why, I only drink dark roasts when I've screwed up a light roast.

BTW, beware of cheaper burr grinders such as Bodum and Krups. They advertise espresso settings but they only grind finely enough to use with a pressurized filter.

It might be an idea to join http://coffeeforums.co.uk and watch their classified ads section. You'll also get lots of good advice and find more sources for kit and good coffee.

CAMRAMan · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 December, 2015, 07:50:34 pm »

As mentioned above, my Iberital was supplanted recently. I bought a Baratza Encore. The Iberital is definitely a more solid machine, but it is a faff to adjust the burr settings. The Baratza is altered by simply turning the hopper a few clicks until the desired grind is reached. I doubt it will last as long as the Iberital, but so far it has been very good, especially since I carried out the grind setting tweak.

My Porlex is now reduced to camping trip duty, very good though it is.

Tewdric · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 December, 2015, 09:21:35 am »

The conventional wisdom is that worthwhile electric grinders start at the MC2 and don't even think about blade grinders.

That Hario will be fine for pourover but none of the hand grinders are really good enough for use with an espresso machine unfortunately. You can make really good coffee with a Porlex and an aeropress though and that is a fantastic combination for travel, camping and the office. Better still with a metal gauze filter.

T42 · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 December, 2015, 02:59:48 pm »

Quote from: A Warwickshire Lad on 18 December, 2015, 07:50:34 pm

As mentioned above, my Iberital was supplanted recently. I bought a Baratza Encore. The Iberital is definitely a more solid machine, but it is a faff to adjust the burr settings. The Baratza is altered by simply turning the hopper a few clicks until the desired grind is reached. I doubt it will last as long as the Iberital, but so far it has been very good, especially since I carried out the grind setting tweak.

My Porlex is now reduced to camping trip duty, very good though it is.

And I have just replaced an Encore with a Nuova Simonelli Grinta.

CAMRAMan · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 December, 2015, 03:33:09 pm »

What did you think of the Encore?

Tewdric · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 December, 2015, 04:10:00 pm »

The alternative is do what I did and get one if these for the princely sum of £20:

http://www.machina-espresso.co.uk/products/ceado-e37s-on-demand-burr-grinder-silver-or-black

robgul · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 December, 2015, 04:26:10 pm »

We have a Fracino plumbed-in coffee machine (just the single group

) like you see in pubs and restaurants BUT decided that a grinder wasn't a good investment, and takes up space.

So I'm a bit of a Philistine and buy, horror, ready ground coffee ... and usually from Ikea at £1.70 a packet .... can't tell the difference from the Lavazza we used to buy at twice that price ... stored in an air-tight tin it keeps OK - using about a packet every 6 days.

Rob

T42 · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 December, 2015, 05:07:27 pm »

Quote from: A Warwickshire Lad on 19 December, 2015, 03:33:09 pm

What did you think of the Encore?

It can be used for espresso, but it's a bit inconsistent and sometimes I found it difficult to pull two good shots in a row.

Quote from: Tewdric on 19 December, 2015, 04:10:00 pm

The alternative is do what I did and get one if these for the princely sum of £20:

http://www.machina-espresso.co.uk/products/ceado-e37s-on-demand-burr-grinder-silver-or-black

Give you £40 for it - that way you get a 100% mark-up. Done?

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 December, 2015, 05:24:43 pm »

Quote from: robgul on 19 December, 2015, 04:26:10 pm

We have a Fracino plumbed-in coffee machine (just the single group ) like you see in pubs and restaurants BUT decided that a grinder wasn't a good investment, and takes up space.

So I'm a bit of a Philistine and buy, horror, ready ground coffee ... and usually from Ikea at £1.70 a packet .... can't tell the difference from the Lavazza we used to buy at twice that price ... stored in an air-tight tin it keeps OK - using about a packet every 6 days.

Rob

No you probably won't taste the difference between Ikea and Lavazza coffee. But you would taste the difference if I turned up with my grinder and some decent beans.

andyoxon · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 December, 2015, 06:05:44 pm »

Thanks, will see how I get on with Hario manual.

Reviews either way really, this one seems happy...

Quote

The best mill of any kind in its price range
By Dr. L. J. Noble on 13 Jan. 2013
Verified Purchase
Japan isn't the first country you'd think of in connection with coffee, but they are pretty good at precision engineering as this little mill proves. My Elektra Microcasa lever action espresso machine is extremely fussy about the grind of the coffee used and I've tried other grinders and mills before with no success. Setup is quite easy - just follow the instructions in the leaflet. The further clockwise the little adjusting screw is turned the finer the grind - I find one 'notch' back from minimum is fine for espresso.

Though we just have a MphyR Roma pump espresso machine...

Even read some people removed the stepped adjustment part, and use a nylock nut for continuous adjustment...

CAMRAMan · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 December, 2015, 09:19:43 pm »

Quote from: T42 on 19 December, 2015, 05:07:27 pm

Quote from: A Warwickshire Lad on 19 December, 2015, 03:33:09 pm
What did you think of the Encore?
It can be used for espresso, but it's a bit inconsistent and sometimes I found it difficult to pull two good shots in a row.

Did you do the burr setting tweak to move it from coarse to fine? TBH it hasn't made that much difference on mine, but it seems more consistent at espresso grind now.

T42 · « **Reply #18 on:** 20 December, 2015, 09:05:43 am »

Mine didn't need it; I could take it down to Turkish right out of the box. I did read of a chap who compared grounds from an Encore with an up-market grinder under a microscope and noticed that the Encore grind was fluffier-looking. It's possible that this makes the grains more liable to clog under a firm tamp.

I got the best results from it when the grains were just beginning to clump, combined with a lightish tamp.

As it happens, I still have it. Nobody on an espresso forum is interested and nobody who makes any other kind of coffee wants to fork out the asking price. It's all cleaned and boxed for sale but I'm thinking of bringing it back into service so that I can keep a grinder set for each of my machines.

CAMRAMan · « **Reply #19 on:** 20 December, 2015, 10:41:41 am »

The reason I prefer it over The MC2 is that I can get the grind more or less right after two or three shots, whereas the Iberital took almost a whole bag of beans to do so with a lot of faffage on the way.

T42 · « **Reply #20 on:** 20 December, 2015, 03:56:10 pm »

I originally got mine when I was labouring to dial in a Porlex for a Rok. Doing 3 or 4 espresso grinds on the trot by hand was enough to make you drink tea. I simply looked on a big French coffee site for the cheapest espresso-fit grinder and picked up mine at 30% off. They said it was OK for espresso, so...

Main thing is, I think, that while you can set the grind fine enough for espresso, the steps between clicks are too large to get an absolutely ideal grind, or to follow changes in ambient humidity throughout the day. Grinders that offer microadjustments allow you to dial in precisely.

rogerzilla · « **Reply #21 on:** 21 December, 2015, 08:50:15 pm »

The Hario one is good. I've been using one for a year or so. When the kids are here, they grind my coffee for me

TimO · « **Reply #22 on:** 23 December, 2015, 03:07:41 pm »

Quote from: Tewdric on 19 December, 2015, 09:21:35 am

...but none of the hand grinders are really good enough for use with an espresso machine unfortunately. ...

This may be true, but since I can't afford an electric grinder, I'd still argue that a hand grinder is preferable to pre-ground coffee, and that's vastly superior to instant coffee.

Actually, I quite like instant coffee, but as a drink distinct from real coffee, as much as tea is.

contango · « **Reply #23 on:** 24 December, 2015, 02:06:01 am »

Quote from: Tewdric on 19 December, 2015, 09:21:35 am

The conventional wisdom is that worthwhile electric grinders start at the MC2 and don't even think about blade grinders.

That Hario will be fine for pourover but none of the hand grinders are really good enough for use with an espresso machine unfortunately. You can make really good coffee with a Porlex and an aeropress though and that is a fantastic combination for travel, camping and the office. Better still with a metal gauze filter.

Blade grinders are probably fine for coarse grinds but finer grinding is likely to result in burnt coffee.

T42 · « **Reply #24 on:** 24 December, 2015, 07:45:20 am »

Quote from: contango on 24 December, 2015, 02:06:01 am

Quote from: Tewdric on 19 December, 2015, 09:21:35 am
The conventional wisdom is that worthwhile electric grinders start at the MC2 and don't even think about blade grinders.

That Hario will be fine for pourover but none of the hand grinders are really good enough for use with an espresso machine unfortunately. You can make really good coffee with a Porlex and an aeropress though and that is a fantastic combination for travel, camping and the office. Better still with a metal gauze filter.

Blade grinders are probably fine for coarse grinds but finer grinding is likely to result in burnt coffee.

...and watch out for replicants.

A blade produces a wide range of granule sizes. The big ones are flung to the outside while the dust settles in the middle. The tiniest particles can clog a filter, or go straight through the filter of a French press. Their flavour will be extracted/exhausted more quickly than from the large ones and the over-extraction that follows will give you bitter coffee. If you have to use one, either pulse the grind so as to allow the coffee to settle and remix in the pauses, so that all of it gets a whack, or else do a continuous grind while shaking the grinder about. In either case stop & look at it frequently to judge the result.