Author Topic: Min percentage body fat  (Read 7162 times)

ABlipInContinuity

Min percentage body fat
« on: 19 December, 2008, 11:33:52 am »
Just wondering on what you peeps think is a safe minimum?

Wikipedia says, for athletes, it's 6-13%. I'm just on the lower end of that range now - and concious I'm not an athlete. However, Wikipedia says, for a man, that essential fats are about 2-5%, so that suggests I'm okay?

I recall my fitness instructor* in my younger days refusing to let me continue using the gym if my body fat dropped below 12% and telling me to go and eat more Pizza.

*she was seriously well qualified and well read up

border-rider

Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #1 on: 19 December, 2008, 11:38:48 am »
I'd have to look this up, and my PhD thesis is not here right now, but I seem to recall that "body fat" as measured/defined clinically can exclude the very small % essential fat, which is in odd places like the bone marrow and nervous system.

So you'd need to check the definition used.

andygates

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Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #2 on: 19 December, 2008, 12:08:56 pm »
Under 5% as determined with calipers is heinously low and unhealthy.   Under 10% is very lean.
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Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #3 on: 19 December, 2008, 12:09:56 pm »
Not a problem I've ever had to face ;D
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Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #4 on: 19 December, 2008, 01:42:22 pm »
How was your bodyfat measured?  It's very difficult to measure body fat when the percentage is very low.  I got measured by callipers, overall density (body pod) and DEXA.  Estimates varied from (I think) 5-8%.

I'm certain that I'm at the lower limit, but I don't have any health problems I eat lots and my weight is always steady.

border-rider

Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #5 on: 19 December, 2008, 01:53:44 pm »
If you're at the limit, I'd not trust calipers at all.  They're used to measure subcutaneous fat, and you'll have almost none, so the regressions to calculate total body fat break down.   For us fatties, they're pretty good :)

DEXA on its own is good for bone density, but extrapolation to fat/fat-free mass is a bit iffy.

Total body immersion is about as good as it gets.  If they combined that with DEXA or with K40 or tritium dilution, then it would be a very good measurement of actual body composition

inc

Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #6 on: 19 December, 2008, 02:03:59 pm »
Just wondering on what you peeps think is a safe minimum?

- and concious I'm not an athlete.


If you are <5% body fat, not an athlete,  eating normally and have been higher ( you mention 12%) something doesn't look quite right. I assume you have some concerns posting here and looking at Wikipedia.

border-rider

Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #7 on: 19 December, 2008, 02:08:51 pm »
That was the reason for my question about how it was defined - also how it was measured.  6% is very low if you are not seriously training and are eating OK.  But if it's actually 11% then that'd be a bit more understandable.

ABlipInContinuity

Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #8 on: 19 December, 2008, 02:18:16 pm »
It's an electronic widget bought from Lloyds pharmacy.

I'm not overly worried. It's gradually fallen from just over ten percent to now nine percent.

I probaby just need to eat a bit more. Explains a bit possibly why I've been tiring lately.

border-rider

Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #9 on: 19 December, 2008, 02:21:38 pm »
It's an electronic widget bought from Lloyds pharmacy.


Oh OK.

It's totally crap then.  Whatever body fat it tells you, it'll be wrong.

There's a thread somewhere here on why. edit: here

Body composition monitor...

I suspect you can get > 10% shift by drinking a bit more/less, or being a bit hotter/colder

ABlipInContinuity

Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #10 on: 19 December, 2008, 02:53:51 pm »
OIC!

The reading, if anything, is quite consistent.

And it's quite complimentary about my amount of muscle and shows me to be 67% water.

inc

Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #11 on: 19 December, 2008, 03:42:48 pm »


It's totally crap then.  Whatever body fat it tells you, it'll be wrong.

There's a thread somewhere here on why

Mal

Having now read that thread and see you are the resident expert, do the Tanita scales come into the same crap category, or are they useful for measuring trends.

vorsprung

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Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #12 on: 19 December, 2008, 03:47:42 pm »
I don't think of myself as an "athlete" but on the resting heart rate BPM table apparently I am

I don't think I'm likely to get to your level of body fat % but don't let the athlete label bother you

Eating pizza sounds like a good idea

hellymedic

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Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #13 on: 19 December, 2008, 03:53:41 pm »
Does maffie complain that you look/feel like someone straight out of Belsen?
A figure of <9% would give that appearance.
Otherwise, I might not believe the machine...

border-rider

Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #14 on: 19 December, 2008, 04:11:43 pm »


It's totally crap then.  Whatever body fat it tells you, it'll be wrong.

There's a thread somewhere here on why

Mal

Having now read that thread and see you are the resident expert, do the Tanita scales come into the same crap category, or are they useful for measuring trends.

Same crap category.

They may be some use in measuring trends, but all they'll actually measure is how muscular your knees and ankles are, and how well hydrated you are.  You'll be getting no real information about body fat.  Physics says no ;)

border-rider

Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #15 on: 19 December, 2008, 04:12:32 pm »
Does maffie complain that you look/feel like someone straight out of Belsen?
A figure of <9% would give that appearance.
Otherwise, I might not believe the machine...

Hellymedic as ever speaks good sense.  Your own eyes are a better indicator of body fat than one of these machines.

Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #16 on: 19 December, 2008, 04:48:46 pm »
Ah, Mr Expert I love my Tanita scales even if thay are allegedly crap. For weight measurement they appear to be more accurate than my Hospital Digital Scales - I checked this two weeks ago and the nurse then brought another scale that proved the main ones were inaccurate by more than 2 Kg. As to fat percentages they also seem to be a pretty good guide.

This is based upon my own health experience over  more than 5 years whereby my weight and presumably fat can vary by as much as 30%. Yes really,  the details are concerned with one kidney not working properly. The Tanita scales have always produced  sensible figures. Perhaps the % fat in the legs is representative of the general body fat? I recall a similar discussion a few years ago :P

Anyway, I just don't need anything more accurate and still use them regularly :D
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border-rider

Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #17 on: 20 December, 2008, 12:09:10 am »
Yes really,  the details are concerned with one kidney not working properly.

It's more likely picking up an electrolyte imbalance then.

Quote
Perhaps the % fat in the legs is representative of the general body fat? ]

Possibly, but that's not what it's measuring.  It doesn't measure fat directly, it measure conduction pathway. Conduction pathway is determined almost entirely by the smallest conducting cross sections - which is your knees and ankles.  It's effectively measuring the conducting cross section of those  bits of you (only), which is not dependent on the amount of fat.

The fallacy in its conception is that it is in some way a whole-body measurement.

Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #18 on: 20 December, 2008, 02:11:38 am »
Correction. I know what the machine is doing, I just explained my thoughts poorly.

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Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #19 on: 20 December, 2008, 12:07:25 pm »
Ah, Mr Expert I love my Tanita scales even if thay are allegedly crap. For weight measurement they appear to be more accurate

I to like the Tanita scales.  for the weight measurement ( I do not need scales to know the fat %age of this lump of La*d )   ;D

But the scales are very accurate,  The same weight no matter how many times you step on them.  Also Weigh then drink a pint of water or so and weight goes up by .4kg.   That is impressive accuracy at the price.

Geoff
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Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #20 on: 20 December, 2008, 12:25:14 pm »
Repeatability and accuracy are not the same thing.

hellymedic

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Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #21 on: 20 December, 2008, 12:46:48 pm »
Ah, Mr Expert I love my Tanita scales even if thay are allegedly crap. For weight measurement they appear to be more accurate

I to like the Tanita scales.  for the weight measurement ( I do not need scales to know the fat %age of this lump of La*d )   ;D

But the scales are very accurate,  The same weight no matter how many times you step on them.  Also Weigh then drink a pint of water or so and weight goes up by .4kg.   That is impressive accuracy at the price.

Geoff

<pedant>
Given that a pint of water weighs .568 kg, I would not be impressed with scales that registered a 0.4kg gain after drinking a pint.
Do you serve short measures?  ;) ;D
<pedant>

Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #22 on: 21 December, 2008, 09:06:09 am »
Does maffie complain that you look/feel like someone straight out of Belsen?
A figure of <9% would give that appearance.
Otherwise, I might not believe the machine...

I have said over the last few weeks he's getting slimmer, he does eat alot  :demon: but have noticed him shrinking

hellymedic

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Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #23 on: 21 December, 2008, 10:51:28 am »
Blip shouldn't be shrinking if he's exercising normally (whatevever that is) and eating enough. It's Christmas; I hope you all enjoy seasonal fare!
Seriously, if he's shrinking despite adequate food intake, it might be worth investigating, eg doing thyroid tests.

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Re: Min percentage body fat
« Reply #24 on: 21 December, 2008, 11:13:42 am »
Daniel - if you post a picture of yourself naked, we can all give you our opinion  :)
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