Weight Loss Discussion Thread

[citoyen]

I'm riding fixed, and loving it. It's only for really hilly rides I get the gears out.

Oops. I knew that already but forgot... sorry. But the general principle of trying something different holds... Maybe a bit of cyclocross?

Or maybe try a different form of exercise altogether - swimming, perhaps?

I need to HTFU and just get out there more often though, it would help. Riding always makes me feel better overall, and less inclined to turn to other sources of solace.

Well, no one can fault your attitude, at least! 

But it is hard work, so try not to be too down on yourself.

d.

[DrMekon]

3) Drop snack machine habit at work in the afternoon

I've found two things help with this:
- apples. I buy a bag of five small apples for 99p from M&S and snack on them instead of chocolate or crisps. It helps if you like apples.
- water. Drinking more water is a good way to feel fuller. I don't know if there's any scientific basis for this or if it's psychological, but it seems to work for me. Perhaps it's just the increased exercise from more frequent trips to the toilet.

d.

Apples & water for the win. I heard that the pectin in the apples means the apples at water turn into one big gooey blob in your belly, making you feel full. True or not, apples are lovely.

Down another .5kg this week, aided no doubt by 233km yesterday, where I suspect I didn't eat enough. I felt very full; too full to eat when I got homw. However, at the second cafe, I couldn't make sense of the coins in my wallet, got all giggly and asked the girl at the counter to make it all work. Still, it was simonp, not me, who got the freebie extra cream on his milkshake.

BMI 20.0, 4kg left to got to hit my target of a BMI of 19.

[Karla]

I hate carrying this extra weight around, taking 11 hours and being the last one home on a course that people who aren't carrying an extra 6 stone can do in 7 hours.

Q: How long would most people take to ride the Phil 150?
A: About 11 hours to get up Holme Moss,  couple of days for the rest of it. 

Cheer up Matt!

[jogler]

- water. Drinking more water is a good way to feel fuller. I don't know if there's any scientific basis for this or if it's psychological, but it seems to work for me.
 

it works for me too:we can't both be wrong 

[jogler]

and being the last one home

I suggest you ride more events with me:you were back before me on the Wiggy 100 so it's not accurate to say that you are last.

I too have pigged out since Saturday evening & this morning was half a kg heavier than when I started last Saturday's ride.

So it's not unique to yourself.
Keep on keeping on

[DrMekon]

@hulver

So, I think motivation is a relatively rubbish basis for changing behaviour*, and that making firm plans that are linked to stable cues are much better (I may or may not have a BMJ paper talking about this out soon). So I would stop worrying about your intentions failing, because it just means you aren't an uber-conscientious freak. Revel in your normality, and instead, identify something that regularly triggers bad eating habits, and associate that cue with a better response. For me, it's the presence of ice cream in the house. My habit was to eat the whole pot in one sitting. Instead, I formed the following plan

IF I open the ice cream tub, THEN I will only have 1/3rd of the pot in an evening.

I repeated this out loud, and visualised myself only serving myself 1/3rd.

Redo that for yourself. Not saying it's a panacea, but meta-analysis shows this technique (IF>THEN plans, AKA implementation intentions) has a large effect size across a range of health behaviours. You might ask why I didn't reassociate the cue (ice cream pot) with something more healthy, like eating an apple. Well, I like ice cream, and doing something I don't want to do, like not eat icecream ever, is dumb (and plans like that don't work so well, see paper by friend and me in crappy obscure journal only our mates will read, 2009).

*I am low on conscientiousness, so am more disparaging than most, but meta-analysis shows changing intention is less effective than planning.

[Sergeant Pluck]

So, I think motivation is a relatively rubbish basis for changing behaviour*, and that making firm plans that are linked to stable cues are much better

I'm very interested in this. It has some relevance to my "chronic procrastination" thread. Feel free to elaborate.

I sympathise, Hulver.

Think I'll join Greenbank and get going on this again, starting with a weigh-in tomorrow. At least 7 kg could usefully be disposed of. 

[citoyen]

Interesting, DrM, very interesting.

I don't have an ice cream habit but I haves used the same technique to cut my wine consumption. It used to be that I couldn't open a bottle without finishing it but now I can restrict myself to one glass and make a bottle last four days.

I still think trying something different can help with motivation, just to stop you feeling jaded, but I suppose it depends on the context - for me it worked because I was fed up with the drudgery of winter commuting and I really needed a break. And a change, as they say, is as good as a rest.

d.

[Aidan]

Put my weight in the chart a day early as I'm away tonight so cant get weighed in the morning.

Got to say I'm pleased with how its going.

Lost nearly 8KG so far , after a shaky first few months. But a rather enjoyable regime (if thats the word) of fruit for breakfast, salad for lunch, coupled with some sensible portion control on evening meals is working very well.

I've also cut out almost all of the chocolate and biscuits that were little snacks, but all add up.

I allow myself one treat night a week, for a meal out or a takeaway, and make sure any cycling is well catered for with breakfast such as porridge and nice healthy beans on toast    I even allow myself a little cake on longer rides.

In late 2006 I was 65kg after being out of work for a while and spending most of the summer cycling.

I then got a job where I do alot of driving, my cycling miles fell away drastically  and I got married to Mrs Aidan, who likes to make sure I'm well fed All of this conspired to add a pile of weight on over the next two years or so

Its really only this year that I've reducated my appetite, educated Mrs Aidan and started putting a little restraint on my eating, rather than trying to consume what I was when doing 500 miles a week on the bike

A regime of exercise has also helped. I make a point of cycling almost every day, even if only for a few miles, or have a walk for half an hour, coupled with longer rides at the weekend.  I take the Brommie with me when I stay away so I can get a bit of cycling in when Im not at home.

It does all seem to be having the required effect.  I dont find the salads and fruit boring, I actually really enjoy them, I agonize occasionally over cake and chocolate, but usually manage to talk myself out of it.

This is what works for me.

[perpetual dan]

So, I think motivation is a relatively rubbish basis for changing behaviour*, and that making firm plans that are linked to stable cues are much better (I may or may not have a BMJ paper talking about this out soon).
...
Redo that for yourself. Not saying it's a panacea, but meta-analysis shows this technique (IF>THEN plans, AKA implementation intentions) has a large effect size across a range of health behaviours. You might ask why I didn't reassociate the cue (ice cream pot) with something more healthy, like eating an apple. Well, I like ice cream, and doing something I don't want to do, like not eat icecream ever, is dumb (and plans like that don't work so well, see paper by friend and me in crappy obscure journal only our mates will read, 2009).

I'd be interested in a pointer, for work - I'm not usually reading the BMJ but I am interested in behaviour change.

[Manotea]

@hulver

So, I think motivation is a relatively rubbish basis for changing behaviour*, and that making firm plans that are linked to stable cues are much better (I may or may not have a BMJ paper talking about this out soon). So I would stop worrying about your intentions failing, because it just means you aren't an uber-conscientious freak. Revel in your normality, and instead, identify something that regularly triggers bad eating habits, and associate that cue with a better response. For me, it's the presence of ice cream in the house. My habit was to eat the whole pot in one sitting. Instead, I formed the following plan

IF I open the ice cream tub, THEN I will only have 1/3rd of the pot in an evening.

I repeated this out loud, and visualised myself only serving myself 1/3rd.

Redo that for yourself. Not saying it's a panacea, but meta-analysis shows this technique (IF>THEN plans, AKA implementation intentions) has a large effect size across a range of health behaviours. You might ask why I didn't reassociate the cue (ice cream pot) with something more healthy, like eating an apple. Well, I like ice cream, and doing something I don't want to do, like not eat icecream ever, is dumb (and plans like that don't work so well, see paper by friend and me in crappy obscure journal only our mates will read, 2009).

This approach really doesn't work for me. Saying 'why deny yourself pleasures' is just a recipe (sic) for disaster IMO. Once the pot is open its only a matter of time until you've scoffed the lot and it doesn't really make that much difference whether its over one or three sittings (and usually its one). BTDTGTTS.

My approach is to find substitutes. I'm quite partial to Fab lollies (!) which have a fraction of the calories of a serving of ice cream (especially when measured in time required to consume) and the number of calories per serving are bounded to those within a lolly rather than within a multiportion tub of ice-cream. Don't get me wrong, I like ice-cream but a Fab is just as fine, so I'm denying myself nothing.

I still buy icecream, choc ices, etc. for the family and now and then have some but its pretty exceptional, and usually just a tiny portion, a spoonful as a 'taster'. Any more and I'd simply scoff the lot. I also will have ice-cream when I'm out and about. I had a '99 as a treat on a lovely sunny day at Wells by the Sea on the Asparagus and Strawberries 400km (FWIW it was ghastly, the ice-cream, that is), apple pie and ice-cream at a cafe, etc. Again the portions are controlled.

So its not about denial but avoiding opportunities to over indulge and finding equally enjoyable alternatives.

Hope this helps.

[DrMekon]

I'd be interested in a pointer, for work - I'm not usually reading the BMJ but I am interested in behaviour change.

If you are interested in Implementation Intentions (the IF>THEN planning, behaviour change technque), this is good paper to start  (it talks about where, when, how, but people found IF>THEN is better) with

http://www.psych.nyu.edu/gollwitzer/99Goll_ImpInt.pdf

If you are interested in the extent to which motivation doesn't determine our behaviour:

(Best article title evah!) The unbearable automaticity of being
http://www.abdn.ac.uk/~psy423/dept/HomePage/Level_3_Social_Psych_files/Bargh%26Chartrand.pdf

or just look out for stuff by Bargh on free will. He's a very engaging writer.

[Chris S]

The problem with doing lots of audax rides over the summer is - lots of controls serving up lashings of cakey goodness. I seem to have attracted some ballast  .
The thought of hauling this lard up Streatley Hill on a fixed gear, come the Anfractuous 200 in October, gives me THE FEAR.

Time to blow the dust off the rowing machine, pump the tyres up on the turbo, and fire up Livestrong again.

Aiming for a 500kcal a day deficit, which should be more than covered merely by tidying up my eating habits, reigning in the boozahol habit somewhat, and getting some cross training in.

But I don't kid myself. Even a modest deficit like this will make me hungry, cranky, hard done-by, and a misery (empty) guts at times.

[simonp]

Why not try 250kcal/day and see if that is more tolerable?

[Chris S]

Why not try 250kcal/day and see if that is more tolerable?

I considered that. I suspect the results would be too slow coming, and I would get demotivated. There's a sweet-spot somewhere in the sliding scale of deprivation where the feedback from results at least makes up for the pain and misery. I don't feel mentally rufty-tufty enough for a 1000kcal a day; I've done that before and you have to be obsessive to make it work, but I reckon 500 is a good compromise.

[Greenbank]

This time I can't be bothered to work out the actual calorie deficit.

I'm just making sure I eat less at lunch and eat less in the evening, commute more by bike, cut down on booze (the occasional 2 or 3 cans of lager 'to unwind from work' had become 3 or 4 evenings a week) and no snacking unless I really am starving (I've trained myself to be quite good at just being hungry for a couple of hours).

I'll probably be running somewhere inbetween 250kcal and 500kcal a day deficit. To get to a more ideal weight for PBP I need to drop about 10kg over the next 12 months. That works out at roughly 1/2lb a week, so 250kcal a day is a minimum deficit I need to maintain for that year assuming I miss a few weeks:-

250kcal * 7 days * 52 weeks = 91,000 kcal = 26 lbs of fat (3500kcal per lb of fat) = 11.8kg

[Jaded]

I have no idea about calorie deficit, I just know that I spent much of my recent holiday hungry and I am now 1/2 a stone lighter. Less food, less alcohol, and more cycling FTW.

[L CC]

Chris S very flatteringly said I looked slimmer last weekend. I modestly doubted it but the scales today confirm that is indeed the case. Being without a car clearly makes all the difference as I'm still eating like my livestock. Ad Lib.

[simonp]

When doing 2000+km/month I didn't need to concern myself.  In fact by the time I started the MC I was down to 68kg.  Afterwards, I was 66kg.

I'm now 72kg. 

(Ok, so that's a BMI of 21.7 and I shouldn't be concerned.  But last time I got to 76kg before I acted, and it makes me much slower up hills.  And it's possible to look flabby, with my build, at 11 stone).

Back on the program for me.  250kcal/day deficit.  I need to adjust my calorie intake to match my changed monthly mileage (probably 1000km/month for the rest of the year).

[inc]

This may be an interesting read but then again it may not.  Book excerpt: The myth of 'The Fat-Burning Zone' - VeloNews

[simonp]

This may be an interesting read but then again it may not.  Book excerpt: The myth of 'The Fat-Burning Zone' - VeloNews

I've got the book - it's very good.

[Greenbank]

There was an 'interesting' article in the Times the other day about how all of the talk of calorie counting, basal metabolic rate, exercise affecting weight and the like is bollocks. (A view I certainly don't share.)

In reality it was nothing more than a piece advertising a book by Dr John Briffa who's just reinvented the Atkins diet (eat as much fat and protein as you like but no carbs). A google shows that he used to write for the Grauniad and Observer until the end of 2005. Writing diet books seems to be more lucrative.

[Manotea]

I've a lot of time for the Atkins diet. Useless for days on the bike of course but from the point of view of managing appetite, insulin spikes, etc. it has a lot going for it (it helps if you're not a vegetarian tho). In fact when I'm not riding thats roughly how I eat, well, high protein, moderate fats and carbs anyway.

[jogler]

The term "calorie deficit" is sufficiently similar to the term "cake deficit" to be acceptable.
Similarly to Greenbank's intention I spent a couple of months simply eating less,avoiding stuff that adds the lard,riding more & eating only after becoming hungry.Not at all scientific but I did lose 4kg without it being a drama.

I have regressed in the last 8 days & put back on 1kg due to too much cake & biscuits.

[mattc]

There was an 'interesting' article in the Times the other day about how all of the talk of calorie counting, basal metabolic rate, exercise affecting weight and the like is bollocks. (A view I certainly don't share.)

In reality it was nothing more than a piece advertising a book by Dr John Briffa who's just reinvented the Atkins diet (eat as much fat and protein as you like but no carbs). A google shows that he used to write for the Grauniad and Observer until the end of 2005. Writing diet books seems to be more lucrative.

I'm glad you posted that! I found myself disagreeing with that article and wondering what I was missing.