Close passes

[LMT]

Anyone got a turbo trainer for sale?

Here we go, I had a brand new trainer for sale that was being offered just under sale price on CRC, the price on CRC goes back up so the cost of the trainer went up as well. Not sure if I'm flattered or worried that I've been living rent free in your head for the best of a year because of this - hey ho.

'If a kitwanker smashes past you, close, on an £8k bike, on a rural road, doesn't bother with a hello, nor respond to yours then, sorry, its a statement, and they are fair game.'

All because someone did not say hello to you - get a life.

It's ok, LMT. I get that you are utterly individualistic, that when you placed an item on the for sale board here for a set price, and then later raised the price when the pandemic hit you did so because you thought you could price gouge the forum.

Other people think differently. They understand community. That is why many people found your behaviour repugnant and said so at the time. You then deleted the thread.

I guess we shouldn't be surprised that you also don't respond to people saying hello to you whilst out on your bike 

Thread got deleted because the trainer got sold. I don't think you understand what price gouging is, price of the trainer was never above RRP and was market value at the time.

And try as you might to save face HF further down this thread - it's just a joke like on Top Gear blah blah. I ain't the one ranting and raving about 'kitwankers' because someone did not say hello to me.

[ravenbait]

The noobs are out in force at the moment, cosplaying being pro.

Me and my mate, Steve, go noobsurfing on our rides. The rules are thus: Should any cyclist overtake us and not respond in kind to our cheery greetings we are to allow them to build up what looks like an unassailable lead,  and then upon a nod of agreement reel them back in, but not too soon. The skill is to get the timing right, know the route, so that the catch occurs about a third of the way up a climb, just as they are dying. Being both seasoned fixed gear riders it is only ever going to end one way. Naturally we relish the opportunity to extract a resentful hello from them. The funniest are the ones who refuse to make eye contact and just give a feint nod. Bonus points if they are riding deep rimmed carbon wheels and full Castelli in winter/spring.

Picture the scene...

I am riding along, minding my own business. I'm probably listening to some banging 90-00s trance, thinking about why my dog is lame, what we're going to have for dinner, why my boss always expects me to perform miracles, and probably several different plot lines and character arcs for whatever piece I'm working on at the moment. At the same time, I'm having a conversation with my bike about the state of the roads, whether we're taking the next left or the one after that, and whether or not he needs a bath when we get home. Ahead of me is Random Cyclist. I probably don't pay any attention other than to note whether I am going faster than them and, if so, making estimates about how quickly I'm going to have to go around and if there is other traffic on the road at the point where that will become necessary.

I make my way past, keeping an eye on traffic etc, which will claim my full attention owing to monocular vision.

Random Cyclist says, "Hello!"

Perhaps I grunt in return. Perhaps I do not. Perhaps the other things in my head drown out the sound of Random Cyclist. Maybe I do not hear him over the sound of Benny Benassi complaining about a lack of satisfaction despite access to power tools wielded by ladies utilising insufficient safety gear. Maybe I Just Don't Want To Engage With Random Dude On Bike who might want to initiate an unwanted conversation about how unusual it is to see a woman riding fixed round these parts, and did I know my bike model translates as a sexual act and isn't that hilarious? And, by the way, does my riding said bike imply that I'm offering said act? Am I sure? Because it seems a reasonable supposition. Oh, go on love, he was only having a laugh. What happened to my sense of humour?

Perhaps I lift a finger in acknowledgement and he doesn't see it. Perhaps I do not. Maybe I am concentrating on not hitting one of the Sea of Tranquility-sized potholes that have opened up over winter while not being smashed by farmer McHaggis hauling a trailer load of cow excrement.

Should said Random Cyclist later pass me and attempt to force the issue, the chances of them extracting a resentful hello from me are precisely zero, and all that means is that I still have a head full of Stuff.

Hellos are nice. I often offer them. Sometimes I don't. I don't think a response is obligatory or indicative of personal character. I genuinely wouldn't associate a failure to say hello to someone I was passing with that person later catching and overtaking me. I'm not sure how one goes about extracting a resentful hello from a cyclist dying on the last third of a hill -- seems like a niche skillset -- but I feel like it's a bit, well, petty.

Sam

[Hot Flatus]

Of course it is petty. That is the whole point of doing it 

Besides, why would I need to picture your scenario when I was present at the scenario I described. And it was nothing like your scenario.

[Davef]

For more introverted people* coming out of their bubble to vocalise a friendly hello can be a huge mental leap. A lot of people go on bike rides in the countryside to spend some quality time in that bubble.

It sounds like you have no empathy for people who aren't exactly like you.

(* or even just averagely verted people)

A guy in full Castelli on an £8k bike an 'introvert' Right.

Keep going..

Is there something specific about castelli clothing ? I have to admit I am occasionally clothed head to toe in the brand.

Me too. It's the new Rapha, though isnt it?

Anyhoo, despite all the shrill ranting from LMT and Grams (cheers for the laughs, guys  ) , point being made in QG's OP and my first reply is that there are loads of noobs out there cosplaying at being Pros and being dicks in the process. In other words all the gear and no idea.

If you are in a town, city, Richmond Park or whatever and surrounded by cyclists then fair enough,but in a very rural environment its just bullshit, just as it is when you pass someone hiking in the middle of nowhere and they just walk past ignorantly.

When I say head to toe, I should elaborate. I have a cap and toe thingies. The rest is a mish mash of different brands.

When I overtake I like to give a cheery “is everything ok ?”

[Hot Flatus]

And try as you might to save face HF further down this thread - it's just a joke like on Top Gear blah blah. I ain't the one ranting and raving about 'kitwankers' because someone did not say hello to me.

Oh you are ranting and raving alright    Just as you always do. You should read your post history sometime. You'll be horrified....

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=7990


p.s. I'm not laughing with you...

[ravenbait]

Of course it is petty. That is the whole point of doing it 

Besides, why would I need to picture your scenario when I was present at the scenario I described. And it was nothing like your scenario.

I'm glad we're in agreement on the pettiness. Although pettiness seems a poor reason for doing anything, and I say that as someone who is often fuelled by spite.

The thing is, you described the situation as "should any cyclist overtake us," which would make my scenario valid, albeit presented from the viewpoint of the passer rather than the passee. If you mean one specific scenario in which you are overtaken by a specific category of cyclist on a specific route while riding with a specific partner, you should have said so. That's less of a normal personality trait and more of a fetish. Whatever floats your boat, I guess?

Sam

[LMT]

And try as you might to save face HF further down this thread - it's just a joke like on Top Gear blah blah. I ain't the one ranting and raving about 'kitwankers' because someone did not say hello to me.

Oh you are ranting and raving alright    Just as you always do. You should read your post history sometime. You'll be horrified....

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=7990


p.s. I'm not laughing with you...

I would not want you laughing with me and I've better things to do with my time then go over my post history, you crack on if you want HF, if this is where you are at the moment trawling over a persons post history and getting the arse with people that don't say hello to you then I pity you.

[Hot Flatus]

Of course it is petty. That is the whole point of doing it 

Besides, why would I need to picture your scenario when I was present at the scenario I described. And it was nothing like your scenario.

I'm glad we're in agreement on the pettiness. Although pettiness seems a poor reason for doing anything, and I say that as someone who is often fuelled by spite.

The thing is, you described the situation as "should any cyclist overtake us," which would make my scenario valid, albeit presented from the viewpoint of the passer rather than the passee. If you mean one specific scenario in which you are overtaken by a specific category of cyclist on a specific route while riding with a specific partner, you should have said so. That's less of a normal personality trait and more of a fetish. Whatever floats your boat, I guess?

Sam

Well, I did mention a specific partner and I did mention a specific category of rider, so that is two of your three requirements met.

Many posters here know I live in the Cotswolds, so they will know that I am not talking about an urban scenario with many other people about. Just in case they didn't realise that I stated it several times.  Many posters here have ridden with me (although mercifully not the main protagonist here) and with that in mind will know that to overtake me will require at least a bit of effort. That isn't a boast, just a reflection of the realities of riding around at 18mph av or higher.   I have no problem with being overtaken, but I don't like it if somebody is showing off and being rude (and marginally dangerous) in the process. If you want to pull that cockish shit then don't die on a hill 500m up the road because you've just killed yourself to overtake me because I will be cockish back. Yes, it is petty, deliberately so. No, it isn't a fetish because that implies some sort of sexualisation, which of course you intended by your choice of word.
 
Frankly, unless you, or Kim, were that man in bright Castelli kit shaving past me and Steve on a deep-rim carbon superbike, then I really don't know why you are trying to make my post about you.

As an aside, on the subject of women on bikes, I cant think of a single time a woman has gone past me and not said hello to me passing, just as I will say hello when I pass other people. I've had Emma Pooley and Jess Varnish give me a huge grin and a hello before I've even noticed they were there.  I've had women stop to talk to me when I've been stationary at the side of the road. I don't find anything odd about that. It's just nice. It is one of the joys of not being enclosed in a speeding metal box, isolated from everything and everyone. Yes, of course people have a choice not to interract, but if you behave in the manner as described  in my first post then you are already interacting.

[Hot Flatus]

And try as you might to save face HF further down this thread - it's just a joke like on Top Gear blah blah. I ain't the one ranting and raving about 'kitwankers' because someone did not say hello to me.

Oh you are ranting and raving alright    Just as you always do. You should read your post history sometime. You'll be horrified....

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=7990


p.s. I'm not laughing with you...

I would not want you laughing with me and I've better things to do with my time then go over my post history, you crack on if you want HF, if this is where you are at the moment trawling over a persons post history and getting the arse with people that don't say hello to you then I pity you.

You probably need to bore off now 

[DaveReading]

Says you. Once again, people are not at liberty to say hello.

Or indeed at liberty not to say hello.   

[fd3]

You know what is dickish behaviour in overtaking?  It's riding in a pair at 10mph on the canal towpath, but then speeding up as fast as you fucking can to try and get in front of the person overtaking you, to then slam the breaks back to 10 mph once you get past.  Extra points if you chose this maneuver with one of you sprinting to not be overtaken while the other sprints to try and catch up, sandwitching the other cyclist.

This is the only time I've been pissed off with overtaking other cyclists (but I would totally agree with the OP sense of close passes from other cyclists, because, dick move).

If I overtake another cyclist and that motivates them to catch up with me and pass mo on a hill, while yawning and showing off their might (a la Flatus) then what do I care?  I think "trying to catch" another cyclist is normal motivation in riding and a general part of commuting.  Whether Flatus does this because I didn't say "hi" or whether he does this because I have the temerity of overtaking him - I don't care.

Sure, it's a bit odd that Flatus gets so worked up about other cyclists not saying "hi", and I could see hwy you might not say "hi" when overtaking.  But then Flatus is a bit odd (first clue - he's posting on yacf, so I'd level the same accusation at everyone else ... not that I consider ebing odd a slur on anyone's character).

So, I am honestly interested in why Flatus' revenge of catching up and ... dun dun duuuun ... saying "hi" is viewed as such a dastardly thing?  I am interested because I could be in a situation of catching someone who's passed me (in my case this happens often with RLJers and people who ride dangerously on shared use paths but don't have the legs for roads) and I wouldn't think I am being (as) callous and evil (as Flatus surely is) if I said "hi" at that point.  But I am (as Flatus has alluded to earlier) quite likely to miss the obvious in this matter.  So please let me know.

(click to show/hide)

Also, Narwhals.

[Hot Flatus]

Being defined as "a bit odd" by fd3, is about as close to an affirmation of normality as is possible. 

It's weird how people are projecting onto me. "Gets worked up".  No, doesn't get worked up. Its fun.

So, I am honestly interested in why Flatus' revenge of catching up and ... dun dun duuuun ... saying "hi" is viewed as such a dastardly thing?  I am interested because I could be in a situation of catching someone who's passed me (in my case this happens often with RLJers and people who ride dangerously on shared use paths but don't have the legs for roads) and I wouldn't think I am being (as) callous and evil (as Flatus surely is) if I said "hi" at that point. 

Mixture of reasons, I suspect. Some people, wrongly, thought I was having a dig at the neurodiverse. I ride audaxes ffs, I did that joke 15 years ago. Now they are my friends 

Some people, well two, and especially one are just tools spoiling for a fight.

[ravenbait]

Well, I did mention a specific partner and I did mention a specific category of rider, so that is two of your three requirements met.

You said "any cyclist". I agree with you on the partner.

Many posters here know I live in the Cotswolds, so they will know that I am not talking about an urban scenario with many other people about.

I live in rural Aberdeenshire, if this is about how rural we can be. Odd category for a bunfight, but hey. I don't see that this makes a difference as to whether it is legitimate to take offense at somebody not responding to you.

Many posters here have ridden with me

Likewise.

I have no problem with being overtaken, but I don't like it if somebody is showing off and being rude (and marginally dangerous) in the process.

Are we moving goalposts here? We've gone from "any cyclist" to people who are showing off, being rude, and being marginally dangerous. I don't see how you get "showing off, being rude (and marginally dangerous)" from a failure to respond to "Hello." Are we talking about what they wear? I used to wear Olympic triathlon kit to train because I got it cheap in a bargain bin at a race, not because I was pretending to be one of the Brownlee brothers in disguise. The bike? I'm just happy to see other people out on bikes instead of tooling around in their motors pretending they're having a nice time because the sun is out and they've got the top down, and if someone can afford a nice bike, then it's their money. Better a Pinarello Dogma than a Subaru Impreza, frankly.

If you want to pull that cockish shit then don't die on a hill 500m up the road because you've just killed yourself to overtake me because I will be cockish back.

I don't understand how it's cockish to overtake someone on a nice bike in matching kit without saying hello. And so what if they die on a hill 500m later? Maybe they are doing intervals. Maybe they just wanted to see how fast they could go. Maybe they over-estimated their fitness. Maybe we should welcome people taking up cycling because more bikes on the road means the roads are safer.

Frankly, unless you, or Kim, were that man in bright Castelli kit shaving past me and Steve on a deep-rim carbon superbike, then I really don't know why you are trying to make my post about you.

And again, you are the one who said "any cyclist", which puts anyone who happens to share a road with you in the firing line. Now you're saying it's not any cyclist, it's just this one specific Castelli-wearing cyclist on a deep-rim carbon superbike who was showing off, rude, and marginally dangerous. That's neither normal nor a fetish. That's some sort of personal vendetta. That's between you and them.

As an aside, on the subject of women on bikes, I cant think of a single time a woman has gone past me and not said hello to me passing, just as I will say hello when I pass other people.

OK. So because you can't think of a time this has not happened, it never happens at all? I think you are conflating your personal experience with how the world is and should be.

I've had women stop to talk to me when I've been stationary at the side of the road. I don't find anything odd about that. It's just nice. It is one of the joys of not being enclosed in a speeding metal box, isolated from everything and everyone.

It's not odd. But neither is choosing not to interact.

Yes, of course people have a choice not to interract, but if you behave in the manner as described  in my first post then you are already interacting.

This is a change from what you said originally. You specified any cyclist passing you without saying hello would experience you catching up with them just as they were dying on a hill so you could extract a resentful hello.

I'm still not sure I understand how passing you on a bike fitted with deep rim wheels while wearing Castelli kit and not saying hello is choosing to interact (quite the opposite, I'd have thought), but I'm glad we've got the exact circumstances sorted.

Sam

[davelodwig]

The noobs are out in force at the moment, cosplaying being pro.

Me and my mate, Steve, go noobsurfing on our rides. The rules are thus: Should any cyclist overtake us and not respond in kind to our cheery greetings we are to allow them to build up what looks like an unassailable lead,  and then upon a nod of agreement reel them back in, but not too soon. The skill is to get the timing right, know the route, so that the catch occurs about a third of the way up a climb, just as they are dying. Being both seasoned fixed gear riders it is only ever going to end one way. Naturally we relish the opportunity to extract a resentful hello from them. The funniest are the ones who refuse to make eye contact and just give a feint nod. Bonus points if they are riding deep rimmed carbon wheels and full Castelli in winter/spring.

My favourite thing is to let them get ahead on the hill up to Birdlip, and then I turn the e-assist up to turbo and cruise past uphill singing to my Spotify playlist while they pant their lungs out.

[Hot Flatus]

Snip

Sorry, too much of a PITA to try and respond to nested quotes. Just read my OP. If you don't like it I guess that is too bad.

[ravenbait]

So, I am honestly interested in why Flatus' revenge of catching up and ... dun dun duuuun ... saying "hi" is viewed as such a dastardly thing?  I am interested because I could be in a situation of catching someone who's passed me (in my case this happens often with RLJers and people who ride dangerously on shared use paths but don't have the legs for roads) and I wouldn't think I am being (as) callous and evil (as Flatus surely is) if I said "hi" at that point.  But I am (as Flatus has alluded to earlier) quite likely to miss the obvious in this matter.  So please let me know.

Nah, I don't care. I probably wouldn't even connect the two, although, if I did, a man insisting on talking to me when I didn't want to talk would be creepy as hell. It was more the assertion that not saying hello is in some way abnormal behaviour that requires consequence to be meted out. I have this vision of a pair of blokes on fixed gear pulling alongside someone struggling up a hill and using a kind of magic wand to coerce them into a strained greeting at the precise moment they need their breath for climbing. It's the absurdity of it, when there are loads of reasons why someone might not respond.

As a cyclist who is wary of men who insist on conversation (see previous comments about sexual innuendo, which has happened more than once), I was trying to point out how presumptive this is.

Sam

[LMT]

So, I am honestly interested in why Flatus' revenge of catching up and ... dun dun duuuun ... saying "hi" is viewed as such a dastardly thing?  I am interested because I could be in a situation of catching someone who's passed me (in my case this happens often with RLJers and people who ride dangerously on shared use paths but don't have the legs for roads) and I wouldn't think I am being (as) callous and evil (as Flatus surely is) if I said "hi" at that point.  But I am (as Flatus has alluded to earlier) quite likely to miss the obvious in this matter.  So please let me know.

You've taken this out of context, in a nutshell quoting words from this thread:-

HF: a kitwanker smashes past you, close, on an £8k bike, on a rural road, doesn't bother with a hello, nor respond to yours then, sorry, its a statement, and they are fair game.

other people: he does not have to say hello to you.

HF: you're abnormal, asocial, tools spoiling for a fight.

Hope the above addresses your question.

[salar55]

Cycling in the UK , all depends upon what subsection you fit .Just like the class /tribe system , each one thinks that they are better.

[Hot Flatus]

Nah, I don't care. I probably wouldn't even connect the two, although, if I did, a man insisting on talking to me when I didn't want to talk would be creepy as hell. It was more the assertion that not saying hello is in some way abnormal behaviour that requires consequence to be meted out. I have this vision of a pair of blokes on fixed gear pulling alongside someone struggling up a hill and using a kind of magic wand to coerce them into a strained greeting at the precise moment they need their breath for climbing. It's the absurdity of it, when there are loads of reasons why someone might not respond.

As a cyclist who is wary of men who insist on conversation (see previous comments about sexual innuendo, which has happened more than once), I was trying to point out how presumptive this is.

Sam

And in those circumstances you'd be entirely right. But those aren't the circumstances.

The irony is that the behaviour I'm objecting to is archetypal aggressive male behaviour, and the the fun is meting out the same but in a slightly comedic manner. Being friendly, rather than unfriendly. I'm pretty sure most men would recognise what I'm talking about. This isn't about some bod on a recumbent or a steel bike just wanting to switch off for a bit. Actual racers invariably say hello or have a chat depending on what they are up to.

As I said, I've never encountered a woman behaving like this. It doesn't matter to this discussion whether they do elsewhere, because it is my response that is being debated.

[Davef]

I used to wear Olympic triathlon kit to train because I got it cheap in a bargain bin at a race, not because I was pretending to be one of the Brownlee brothers in disguise.

Spooky, I am sitting here in GBR triathlon kit at this very moment. I wear it to go to Tesco’s.

[LMT]

Nah, I don't care. I probably wouldn't even connect the two, although, if I did, a man insisting on talking to me when I didn't want to talk would be creepy as hell. It was more the assertion that not saying hello is in some way abnormal behaviour that requires consequence to be meted out. I have this vision of a pair of blokes on fixed gear pulling alongside someone struggling up a hill and using a kind of magic wand to coerce them into a strained greeting at the precise moment they need their breath for climbing. It's the absurdity of it, when there are loads of reasons why someone might not respond.

As a cyclist who is wary of men who insist on conversation (see previous comments about sexual innuendo, which has happened more than once), I was trying to point out how presumptive this is.

Sam

And in those circumstances you'd be entirely right. But those aren't the circumstances.

The irony is that the behaviour I'm objecting to is archetypal aggressive male behaviour, and the the fun is meting out the same but in a slightly comedic manner. Being friendly, rather than unfriendly. I'm pretty sure most men would recognise what I'm talking about. This isn't about some bod on a recumbent or a steel bike just wanting to switch off for a bit.

As I said, I've never encountered a woman behaving like this. It doesn't matter to this discussion whether they do elsewhere, because it is my response that is being debated.

You're talking out of your arse and your making this into something that it is not to suit your own agenda.

A guy out on a £8k bike in full pro kit who is minding his own business is exactly that, a guy out on a £8k bike in full pro kit minding his own business. But according to you it's aggressive male behaviour. You're taking the piss.

And all because he did not say hello.

[Hot Flatus]

other people: he does not have to say hello to you.

HF: you're abnormal, asocial, tools spoiling for a fight.

Hope the above addresses your question.

No, not 'other people', just two people. One of whom is you.

I'm sorry you are butt-hurt, but yanno... if you rock up telling people to fuck off and your first remark is to call me a knob then you deserve to get your arse handed to you (again)

You've a choice to ignore, walk away, but here you are again and again, dry-humping my leg.

[LMT]

other people: he does not have to say hello to you.

HF: you're abnormal, asocial, tools spoiling for a fight.

Hope the above addresses your question.

No, not 'other people', just two people. One of whom is you.

I'm sorry you are butt-hurt, but yanno... if you rock up telling people to fuck off and your first remark is to call me a knob then you deserve to get your arse handed to you (again)

You started with the insults mate.

Thinking about again I'm thinking you're envious of this guy. You said it yourself that in order for someone to pass you they have to put in the work, was you put out when he overtook you? Face it, without your mate there with you you'd never caught him up, you would have been spat trying to catch him.

And rather than take it on the chin, he is a noob, a kit wanker who has to be taught a lesson. Rather sad that your ego is this fragile HF. And anyone that disagrees with you is abnormal and asocial, the irony that your failure to recognise that you've been a bit of dick and have a go at people is abnormal and asocial. Having sly digs at people and trawling through their post history is not normal behaviour imo, but you crack on anyway, I'll be in your head for another year rent free.

[LMT]

other people: he does not have to say hello to you.

HF: you're abnormal, asocial, tools spoiling for a fight.

Hope the above addresses your question.

No, not 'other people', just two people. One of whom is you.

I'm sorry you are butt-hurt, but yanno... if you rock up telling people to fuck off and your first remark is to call me a knob then you deserve to get your arse handed to you (again)

You've a choice to ignore, walk away, but here you are again and again, dry-humping my leg.

I see you added the above in bold, I'm not the one going through peoples post history and bringing up stuff from a year ago,
lol

[Hot Flatus]

blah

Yeah, whatever. I don't see many people responding to you, which leads me to think that they probably are as bored by your incessant yapping as I am. They are, however, responding to me, and for the most part politely, even if they are taking issue. So with that in mind, and because I am the focus of your increasingly bizarre behaviour I'm going to pop you on ignore by way of discouragement.

Have a great life