[LEL17] *pssssst* 100hr riders

[eddum]

Are there any here ?
Seems to be not much discussed.... we were debating the merits of applying for a 100hr start and making the numbers work for that.

If I put an 8am start into the spreadsheet and tweaked numbers it seemed like a big ask, when we played with a lunch time start and full cut off we came in with 14hrs in hand, which is tantalisingly close to 100, i.e. if we were prepared for a bit more discomfort and less sleep maybe it's possible.

Of course 4 days is a long time to keep to any plan with any number of outside influences playing their part.
There's also the option of taking a later start time and pushing for 100hrs, which means less pressure if things don't go to plan.

We've done a 400 inside 24hrs which was mostly new territory, I expect this year we'll better that just from knowing how to deal with it.... but the addition of multiple days & sleep stops is a bit unknown... by the time we get to LEL they obviously won't be SO unknown.
But before the end of the month deadline they probably still will be!

So has anyone experience of pushing for the 100hr ?... or worked the numbers to get there ?
I've enjoyed the discussions / debates on start times and other topics but this one is a little lacking 

(Also did I see some implication that Mr Phil expects some previous form for 100hr starters ? if so maybe the discussion is a moot point)

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I've done PBP in sub-70 hours - roughly 500km, 400km, 300km days from the 90hr evening start. Something similar from a late afternoon start with a final 200km day would get you round LEL under 100 hours.

I'm going for a lunchtime start and a comfortable >100 hour ride this time.

[jsabine]

(Also did I see some implication that Mr Phil expects some previous form for 100hr starters ? if so maybe the discussion is a moot point)

AIUI, entry to the general 100 hour groups is your decision and at your own risk - 99hrs59mins, happiness; 100hrs01min, misery.

It's the very first start time (0500? 0545?) that's reserved for racing snakes who can make a case for getting an invitation.

[eddum]

I've done PBP in sub-70 hours - roughly 500km, 400km, 300km days from the 90hr evening start. Something similar from a late afternoon start with a final 200km day would get you round LEL under 100 hours.

I'm going for a lunchtime start and a comfortable >100 hour ride this time.

Thanks for that.... what kind of sleep were you taking between stints?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

About 3 hours each night. Ride through the first night, of course.

[madcow]

Of course 4 days is a long time to keep to any plan with any number of outside influences playing their part.
There's also the option of taking a later start time and pushing for 100hrs, which means less pressure if things don't go to plan.

We've done a 400 inside 24hrs which was mostly new territory, I expect this year we'll better that just from knowing how to deal with it

This is not intended as a put down of any sort , just sharing experience. I can do a 400 in just over 20 hours if I push on and don't faff and I consider myself average as a randonneur.
My more likely time for a 400 is somewhere between 21 and 22 hours- no sleeping , just rest at later controls.
I did manage (just ) a sub 80 hour PBP on my first go , mostly because I was that scared of failing and that full of adrenaline  that I just kept going, but I didn't get much more than a few hours  sleep.
If you are not sure how that will affect you, then opting for the quicker time is risky.Ditto on your ability to ride quickly at night.

Somewhere in the Arrivee articles about PBP, Sheila Simpson gave a summary of what start time you should aim for based on finishing times for 400 and 600k. It's worth looking for to help answer your dilemna, but personally,I would want to be consistently finishing a 400 in 20 hours or less to be confident of going for it.
Good luck whichever way you choose.

[simonp]

Last PBP I went for the 80h start, having done twice on the 90h and used nearly all of it.

Time was not much under 77h. I was coming down with a cold on the final day (sore throat all day) so that probably slowed me down a bit.  I got a bit less sleep than LWaB.

You gain time from riding in the 80h start through:

 - shorter queues at controls
 - faster groups to ride in

I imagine you'll get the same benefit with the 100h start. I've put down for 6am.

[eddum]

This is not intended as a put down of any sort , just sharing experience. I can do a 400 in just over 20 hours if I push on and don't faff and I consider myself average as a randonneur.

Yes tah... I appreciate the 400 time is not much to go on, and not that great.. which is why I wanted to gauge what others would do.
I do have a background of endurance & multiday stuff, mostly running but nothing I feel I can really use as a basis for this particular fun & games.

[simonp]

My fastest-ever 600k was 36h20 and my fastest-ever 400k is about 21h.

I will have to improve my fastest-ever time for LEL by ~12h just to scrape in. On last PBP I was 11h faster than my previous best (2007). I got more sleep with the faster ride.

[rob]

Did sub 72h on the last PBP.   Rode through the first night, 4hrs sleep 2nd night and 3hrs the 3rd night.

It works as you build a big buffer by going through the first night and getting a long way down the road before your first proper break.   As always, my advice is to minimise faff time at controls.   Check in, eat, fill bottles and get back on the road.

[simonp]

You missed out posting to Facebook and Twitter, and uploading the last stage to Strava.

 

[frillipippi]

My personal experience is that a 400k doesn't predict reliably how your body will behave on a multiday audax: both in 2013 and 2015, in May, I rode a local 400k in about the same time, but then LEL was a real struggle just to finish in time, while PBP was easy and very fast (at least for what I'm used to). I think that a lot depends on your experience in multiday efforts and in training, so if I were you I would ask myself: am I ready to train properly throughout Spring and Summer? Do I want to undertake a tough challenge, or would I rather take part to a grrrrrrreat cycling party, tough indeed, but a little bit more relaxed?

[mattc]

No predictive metric will be perfect - we perform differently on different days. But until you ride LEL, you can only base estimates on things that you have done.

A 400 is not the worst indicator. Your body is well into most of the same physiology that you need for 1400km. Better would be several 400s, or several 600s. Worse would be a few 300s, or just one 300. Etc! If someone like Wiggo came out and did one of our 400s in 15h, I'd be confident of him managing the 100hr limit.

[Karla]

With or without the corticosteroids? 

[Phil W]

With or without the corticosteroids? 

* cough

[redfalo]

I consider myself an average / slightly below average Audax rider. My 400km times are normally between 22 and 24 hours, and a 600 takes me 36 to 37 hours.

On PBP, I got around in 87 hours (i.e. overall average of 14.3 kph), including losing at least an hour by managing to follow a misplaced sign post and helping another rider fixing a mechanical. I was feeling stronger by the end than after the first 400 km and will aim for a similar timing on LEL, i.e. something around 100 hours.

However, did not consider opting for the faster group for a minute, as this would mean begin close to the wire for large parts of the ride and having no real room for more things going wrong. I think I would struggle to enjoy the ride, as I would constantly fret about things going pear shape and then not finishing in time. I would only opt for 100 hours if I were confident to be able of finishing in 90 to 95-ish hours.

[mattc]

With or without the corticosteroids? 

Whatever he normally rides with! 

[mattc]

Some people assume it would be a disaster to finish in 101 hours and be a DNF. I'm not so sure - I've finished ultra events out of time and still been satisfied; better to try and fail, etc.

If you think similarly, and your very rough ETA is around 100hours, then I suggest going for it.   YMMV!

[madcow]

I think that mattc has got it. A lot of this is based on attitude and fortitude.
My 400 and 600 times are not dissimilar to simonp's but either my confidence or experience level just didn't allow me to think of doing a sub-80hr PBP a second time.
If you opt for the 100 hours ride, it will concentrate your mind on training and riding other events to make sure that you actually can do it.

[vorsprung]

I did various "scenarios" based on the start times and where I might get to
With enough sleep and not getting up at 4am 105 hours seemed to be a number that popped up several times
If I work out a sub 100 plan it seems to involve not enough sleep and starting early in the morning
I'm sure I could do sub 100, if the weather is ok and I am going well then I might accidentally do sub 100

I've usually been in the fast end of slow (or very occasionally the slow end of fast) on events.  Keeping up with a raging peleton striving to ride at speed is not an easy thing for me

Fastest ever PBP 78.5h(on a 90h start), fastest ever 600 was the first 600 of PBP (33h), 400 don't remember
Only time I did LEL before I took 108 hours.  But that was 12 years ago, my second year of doing audax rides.

[simonp]

Given I've done PBP sub 77h, I could in theory do 1200km on LEL in 75h (because PBP is over distance by 2h riding time) and have a further 25h left to do 200km.

It doesn't sound like I should find this so hard. But the weather on the last PBP was kind.

[αdαmsκι]

Dunno if this will help anyone, but I did LEL 2013 in just under 90 hrs. Here's how each day ended up working out:

Day 1: 06:45 start. Cycled to Scotch Corner Travelodge. Arrived around 00:30.
Day 2: Shortest day of the event. Left Scotch Corner around 06:30. Cycled to Edinburgh & stayed at the Dalkeith Premier Inn. Arrived around 20:30.
Day 3: Left Edinburgh around 05:00 and cycled ~350 km to Polkington, arriving around 23:30
Day 4: Left Pocklington around 04:45. Back to HQ just after midnight.

[eddum]

Dunno if this will help anyone, but I did LEL 2013 in just under 90 hrs. Here's how each day ended up working out:

Day 1: 06:45 start. Cycled to Scotch Corner Travelodge. Arrived around 00:30.
Day 2: Shortest day of the event. Left Scotch Corner around 06:30. Cycled to Edinburgh & stayed at the Dalkeith Premier Inn. Arrived around 20:30.
Day 3: Left Edinburgh around 05:00 and cycled ~350 km to Polkington, arriving around 23:30
Day 4: Left Pocklington around 04:45. Back to HQ just after midnight.

That's 18hrs for approx. 450km on the first day ?    = 25kph overall average including stops? 

[αdαmsκι]

That's 18hrs for approx. 450km on the first day ?    = 25kph overall average including stops? 

We got blown northwards by a good tailwind. I remember getting to the second control (Kirton) and was close to averaging 30 kph. Combine that with minimal faffing and you get a decent average speed.

And I think it was more like 425 km, but I cannot remember.

[rob]

That's 18hrs for approx. 450km on the first day ?    = 25kph overall average including stops? 

We got blown northwards by a good tailwind. I remember getting to the second control (Kirton) and was close to averaging 30 kph. Combine that with minimal faffing and you get a decent average speed.

And I think it was more like 425 km, but I cannot remember.

You caught us just before Barnard Castle and you'd had a night in a hotel.   We'd ridden straight through the night.   It's unlikely I'd ride it like that again, though.