Eco laundry liquids...

[Pickled Onion]

If you want to get rid of sweaty smells that don't come out with normal washing, get some clear vinegar and add a few tablespoons of it in the place you're supposed to put conditioner. Works really well, and definitely doesn't leave the clothes smelling of vinegar after line drying.

[fruitcake]

Another mention for using less detergent. I've found that a good way to need less detergent is to soak garments (in a big bucket of water, or in a trug) before putting them in the wash. You can simulate this effect by hitting the soak button on the washing machine - though this will make the laundry cycle last a couple of hours longer. If soaking time does some of the work, the detergent doesn't need to do as much.

It can be useful to apply the detergent directly to the dirtiest part of the garment, rather just mixing it with the wash water (via the machine's drawer). For instance, if the ridge of a shirt collar is visibly dirty, I'll rub a teaspoon full of detergent into the dirty fabric, load the machine and set it going, but add no more detergent. That one teaspoon is more than enough to wash the entire garment.

I spot treat collars and cuffs, plus any visibly dirty or stained areas on other garments or tea towels, and I might leave the pre-treated item twenty minutes before starting the wash. I won't add any more detergent to the wash water. (Don't programme a prewash though because that will flush out the detergent before the main wash starts.) This method requires less than half the standard dose of detergent.

A fringe benefit of using this method is that there's less perfume in your wash, and laundry detergent from the big brands contains loads of perfume nowadays: excessive amounts, IMO.

I only buy laundry detergent in bottles; the plastic gel pouches are no use to me, nor are tablets or washing powders.

[Andrew Br]

I use liquid soap for 90% of my laundry (this one:- https://www.ocado.com/products/dri-pak-liquid-soap-flakes-302725011  Sorry for the Ocado link, it was the 1st one that came up)..
As I understand it (I'm a chemist but soap isn't my speciality !) detergents contain sulphates, soaps contain carbonates (ionic v aromatic ends of the molecules). Soaps are (allegedly) better for washing surface treated garments: waterproofs, windproofs etc....
They don't strip the surface treatment to the same extent so the "water repellency" is, allegedly, more effective for longer.
I use soaps in my washing machine most of the time so that I can wash the "technical" garments without either having to flush the machine or handwash the "technicals".
From time to time, I use Halo "Sports Wash" but I make sure that it's only normal gear and I also make sure that no "technical" gear goes through the machine before there have been 2 "soap" washes following the Halo.
FWIW, I always wash at 30 deg. C (delicates programme) but I stop it for about an hour to "soak" when the machine has filled initially and all the soap is in the drum with the clothes.
Sometime I rub the detergent into "critical" or particularly "dirty" areas.

On tour (I only stay in hotels/motels sometimes, even, Holiday Inn) I usually wash the bike gear in hotel provided shower gel/shampoo but I also take a small bottle of Halo and wash the cycling shirt and bibs one night each (2 shirts, 2 bibs) in that. It make a huge difference to the "airiness" smell. It certainly makes me feel better.
I always do the "rubbing" thing outlined above^.

[Cudzoziemiec]

As I understand it (I'm a chemist but soap isn't my speciality !) detergents contain sulphates, soaps contain carbonates (ionic v aromatic ends of the molecules). Soaps are (allegedly) better for washing surface treated garments: waterproofs, windproofs etc....
They don't strip the surface treatment to the same extent so the "water repellency" is, allegedly, more effective for longer.
I use soaps in my washing machine most of the time so that I can wash the "technical" garments without either having to flush the machine or handwash the "technicals".

I've never been sure of the distinction between soap and detergent, so it's good to have it explained by a chemist. 

[ravenbait]

The difference with most eco liquids is the reduction in phosphates, which is fine if you're in a soft water area, but utterly hopeless for washing if you live in a hard water area. I can explain the chemistry if you want, but I'm just back from a run and my brain is too hot to do it just now, so you might as well google it.

I would be interested in this explanation when you have recovered from your run.

J

The main thing that does the cleaning in a detergent is usually a surfactant that has a long(ish) oily “tail” that ends at one side with a “head” group that has a negative electrical charge. (Often sodium laureth sulfate or sodium lauryl sulfate, the sulfate being the negatively charged part, the laureth or lauryl being the oily taily part). Surfactants work as the oily tail part scavenges dirt and clump together leaving the charged head groups poking into the cleaning water. All this is fine if you can keep the head groups with this negative charge.

Unfortunately, in hard water areas, the water has higher amounts of calcium and magnesium dissolved in it, both of which are positively charged. Electrostatics being as they are, the positive charges on the calcium and/or magnesium are attracted to the negative charges on the surfactant and this stops the surfactant working so efficiently at attracting all the dirt. This is why you need more fairy liquid/shampoo/shaving foam/etc to get the same foam in Kent as you do in Scotland.* It is also why we (who live in the sarfeast) get an absolute bollocking from the MiL (who lives in Aberdeenshire) for using too much detergent whenever we visit. There is an argument to be had about Aberdonians generally being quite grippy, but lets not go there…

Anyway, cleaning product developers put in chemicals known as builders to try to bind up all the calcium and magnesium before they can be attracted to the surfactant. Some phosphates are excellent at this, and scavenge enough of the calcium and magnesium to allow the surfactant to do its job. Unfortunately, some phosphates have been known to be pretty efficient at acting as nutrients for algae, leading to algal blooms, hence the eco aspect of ecover avoiding the use of phosphates.

Pretty much this. Thanks for saving me a job, bluebottle!

Phosphorus is often the limiting nutrient in the environment for growth of all sorts of things, from algae to bacteria, including blue-green algae (which is actually bacteria). What this means is that, even if there are other things they need to grow, like nitrogen, lack of phosphorus prevents them building their cells. So they don't. Add a whack of phosphate from detergent builders, and off they go. Party time! This is what we call eutrophication. It's not just phosphate that leads to it, but as it's less readily available in the environment naturally, it's a big one.

Phosphate is also a PITA to treat in sewage works, so (without wanting to turn this into another sewage thread) it takes additional treatment and/or chemicals like ferric chloride at a works in order to get the phosphate down if there's an orthophosphate driver on the quality standards. Absence of phosphate in detergent was the original eco-friendly criterion. Nowadays it just seems to be about packaging.

Sam

[ravenbait]

Has anyone tried soap nuts? I keep meaning to give them a go.

If you want to switch to soap, you can get marseille soap flakes in bulk online. Their instructions say to turn it i nto a liquid soap, but the last time I tried turning solid soap into a liquid for hand washing, ti went horribly wrong. I think I needed way more water than you do down south. Like, A LOT. Which is a shame, because I like the idea of buying solid soap and not shipping water around. (I need to have liquid soap in the house to make sure I have scrupulously clean hands for putting my contact in.)

https://chateaudusavon.com/collections/soap-flakes

I really like the spinny wall soap. Does a remarkable job of getting oil off, so I only occasionally have to reach for the heavy duty citrus scrub.

I miss the Ecover heavy duty hand cleaner. That stuff was great. They don't make it any more, though.

Sam

[Kim]

As I understand it (I'm a chemist but soap isn't my speciality !) detergents contain sulphates, soaps contain carbonates (ionic v aromatic ends of the molecules). Soaps are (allegedly) better for washing surface treated garments: waterproofs, windproofs etc....
They don't strip the surface treatment to the same extent so the "water repellency" is, allegedly, more effective for longer.
I use soaps in my washing machine most of the time so that I can wash the "technical" garments without either having to flush the machine or handwash the "technicals".

I've never been sure of the distinction between soap and detergent, so it's good to have it explained by a chemist. 

+1

[ravenbait]

As I understand it, soap is a potassium or sodium salt of a long carbon chain fatty acid. The fatty acid hates water and wants to keep away from it, like a cat finding it has snowed outside. The head of the soap molecule is more like a labrador who has just seen his owner chuck a stick in a lake. So it's basically a cat tied to a labrador by a fuzzy cord. The cat will cling to anything, including magnesium and calcium ions.

(Kind of.)

Detergents (long-chain carboxylic acid quaternary ammonium salts -- a hydrophobic cap on a long chain hydrocarbon attached to a hydrophilic head) have a cat at the end of a long leash tied to a golden retriever. This cat is pickier -- say a Siamese? (I don't know cats.)

Detergents dissolve in hard water without forming a scum, unlike soap, because the cat doesn't like Calcium or Magnesium so much.

Um. This metaphor got away from me.

Sam

[Bluebottle]

I think you need to apply to IUPAC for a formal, better, redefinition of catenation.

[The Family Cyclist]

I use sesi washing liquid from our local refill shop (for added middle class points). It's about 33p per 100g from said refill shop and does what it's meant to

We used to use ecover but, actually think we just started using refill shop. Also ecover is I belive now owned by one of the big cleaning companies

https://sesi.org.uk/refills/ethical-product-contents

[Jurek]

Ecover used to be owned by Unilever, but since 2017 it has been owned by SC Johnson,  a Belgian company which manufactures ethically sound cleaning products.

[ravenbait]

I think you need to apply to IUPAC for a formal, better, redefinition of catenation.

Science puns are the only acceptable puns.

Sam