What wheels should I consider for loooong rides?

[alexb]

I can't figure out how looser spokes will lead to more spoke breakages,

Flex in wheel structure, flex at the spoke/hub-flange, more stress on spoke elbow = break.

Thinking about it, from an engineering point of view, isn't the hub/spoke connection ridiculous?

OK, put it this way. I've been building wheels since I was a nipper. I build tight wheels that don't buckle and don't break spokes. However, I'm aware that certain builders have a reputation for building wheels with the spokes pulled in really tight, so when one spoke goes the whole wheel has a tendency to "unzip" as the remaining spokes fail under the extra strain.
I'm not advocating building comedy wobbly wheels with totally detensioned wheels!

[oncemore]

"However, I'm aware that certain builders have a reputation for building wheels with the spokes pulled in really tight, so when one spoke goes the whole wheel has a tendency to "unzip" as the remaining spokes fail under the extra strain.
I'm not advocating building comedy wobbly wheels with totally detensioned wheels!"

+1. I've a mate who doesn't know his own strength and the wheels he builds have the spokes tightened to within a knat's whisker of their life. Only spokes I've EVER broken were on one of his wheels. Also, if do go out of true, no possibility of further tightening any of the spokey bits!
   

[Polar Bear]

XT hubs:  Fit and forget. 

But might prove a tad problematic with the OPs 10 speed Campag cassette.

Other threads in The Knowledge have revealed manufacturers of cross-compatible cassettes.   Highpath for one I think...

Ambrosio Cycle Sport - Cassettes

Nice find. 

[Biggsy]

Other threads in The Knowledge have revealed manufacturers of cross-compatible cassettes.   Highpath for one I think...

There's Marchisio as well, but Campag cassettes are better, IMHO, and really good, so it's nice to have a Campag-compatible hub.

OK, put it this way. I've been building wheels since I was a nipper. I build tight wheels that don't buckle and don't break spokes. However, I'm aware that certain builders have a reputation for building wheels with the spokes pulled in really tight, so when one spoke goes the whole wheel has a tendency to "unzip" as the remaining spokes fail under the extra strain.

I don't Adam and Eve it.  Ok, the wheel goes as wobbly as Anne Widdicombe's bosoms after a spoke breakage, but the other spokes don't break.

[MSeries]

To the OP, keep it straightforward. I trust you'll be doing many high mileage rides on these wheels, you will wear cassettes out and thus will want ones that are easily to obtain and have some choice in sizes and suppliers.

[border-rider]

OK, put it this way. I've been building wheels since I was a nipper. I build tight wheels that don't buckle and don't break spokes. However, I'm aware that certain builders have a reputation for building wheels with the spokes pulled in really tight, so when one spoke goes the whole wheel has a tendency to "unzip" as the remaining spokes fail under the extra strain.

I don't Adam and Eve it.  Ok, the wheel goes as wobbly as Anne Widdicombe's bosoms after a spoke breakage, but the other spokes don't break.

I tend to build high-tension wheels; even with 36 spokes, a strong hefty rider on 70" fixed hoying up 20% climbs will flex a less-tight wheel quite readily, to the extent that it rubs.

The only wheels I've broken spokes on have been ones I've not built, at lower tensions than I'd use.

[Polar Bear]

Good spot Biggsy  

Marchisio from Highpath

To the OP, keep it straightforward.

I can see your point though I would point out that stuff goes out of range eventually.  People like Hghpath and Marchisio are making products that enable folk to keep trusty and reliable kit going as it's bits like cassettes which wear relatively quickest out of a gruppo.   Helps hold off the manufacturers built in obsolescence.    

[alexb]

OK, put it this way. I've been building wheels since I was a nipper. I build tight wheels that don't buckle and don't break spokes. However, I'm aware that certain builders have a reputation for building wheels with the spokes pulled in really tight, so when one spoke goes the whole wheel has a tendency to "unzip" as the remaining spokes fail under the extra strain.

I don't Adam and Eve it.  Ok, the wheel goes as wobbly as Anne Widdicombe's bosoms after a spoke breakage, but the other spokes don't break.

I tend to build high-tension wheels; even with 36 spokes, a strong hefty rider on 70" fixed hoying up 20% climbs will flex a less-tight wheel quite readily, to the extent that it rubs.

The only wheels I've broken spokes on have been ones I've not built, at lower tensions than I'd use.

Well at the risk of this turning into a Jobst Brandt style technical fest, I reckon we're both building good wheels!

[αdαmsκι]

Thanks folks, lots of useful information.

I know I could get a shimano wheel and fit some exotic cassette, but I'd rather have a Campag-compatible hub.
and just fit a campag cassette. And after thought, I won't bother with a Schmidt front hub. If I do decide in the future I'd like one then hopefully money won't be as tight and I'll just get another front wheel.

So choice seems to be Mavic Open Pro (non-ceramic) or Chrina with Campag hubs. Also, the shop in Long Eaton pointed me towards these Miche hubs than come in either 32h or 36h. Anyone have any experience of them? I guess those are what vosprung refers to:

If you go 36h at the back then your choices are limited to cheap or exotic.  Campag don't make a 36h hub

cheap: ambrosio zenith, miche box
exotic: hope, goldtec, royce

Adamski, if you want to have a go at building your own you'd be welcome to borrow my truing stand - I've got a couple to build soon so could take you through the process if you want.

Thanks for the offer, and certainly seeing the process would be very useful because wheels are a black are to me. I'm just not sure if I want to shell out hubs etc. and then create a pringle!!

[Hummers]

Chrina 36h on 105 and Ultegra hubs for me.

105 hubs are fine and Ultegra are simply not worth the extra dosh IMO.

The only spokes I have had go on me are the plain guage ones Spa Cycles insist on fitting on the drive side.

H

[mrcharly-YHT]

The only spokes I have had go on me are the plain guage ones Spa Cycles insist on fitting on the drive side.

H

After reading your stories about spa I was too cowardly to phone up and ask for advice, or go into the store, so I ordered over the web.

I'm half expecting an abusive phone call demanding to know why I've ordered butted spokes for both sides.

[mattc]

I used Campag Proton's till they became obsolete and never needed a spoke key once.

Last year I switched to Fulcrums.

I have Fulcrum 3s on my Audax Bike and Fulcrum 5s on my Winterbike. No problems with either and again no need to use a spoke key thus far.

Fulcrum get around drive side spoke breakages by putting twice the number of spokes in the drive side than the non drive side.

At circa 12st you would be fine with these, FWIW I weigh a fair bit more without a problem (well at least not with the wheels but hills are currently an issue).

The models are updated for 2010 and so there are lots of bargains around for 2009 stock. A pair of 5s are on budget budget at circa 150.00.

AC

Andy,
What's your opinion on servicing/fixing fulcrums (5s - the cheapest)? I've got 2 concerns:
- freehub removal/lubing etc (special tool?)
- spoke replacement. Is this possible with conventional spokes (or with a kevlar jobbie)?

(My Protons have lasted very well too, but I'm suspicious of them for long Audaxes.)

[mattc]

Moving back to more "sensible" wheels ... from reading this thread and others it sounds like Shimano MTB hubs beat everything else for weatherproofing at low cost.

- Do they have any competition in this respect? (I don't want ULTRA cheap!)
- Is using 135mm wheels an utter nightmare in a 130mm frame? (main bike is Ti)

(I'm only looking at a rear wheel currently, and am rather keen on durable freehubs.)

[Biggsy]

What is the frame made of?

[mattc]

The No1 bike is Ti (but I have others!).

[Biggsy]

135mm is doable in most steel 130mm frames by springing open each time, or permanently cold setting to 132.5 or 135mm.  Not for Al.

I'm not sure about Ti (even though I have one), so I'll leave comment to others...

[MSeries]

Moving back to more "sensible" wheels ... from reading this thread and others it sounds like Shimano MTB hubs beat everything else for weatherproofing at low cost.

- Do they have any competition in this respect? (I don't want ULTRA cheap!)
- Is using 135mm wheels an utter nightmare in a 130mm frame? (main bike is Ti)

(I'm only looking at a rear wheel currently, and am rather keen on durable freehubs.)

Plenty of people use Shimano road hubs for long distances, they do just fine.

[mrcharly-YHT]

OLD XT hubs are the dogs danglies.

New ones are rubbish (so says Big Al, and he is the master).

You can adapt a 135 hub to make it 130oln. I did it by removing one spacing washer, grinding two of them a bit thinner and cutting down the axle.

[MSeries]

You (anyone) can have my old XT hub if you want. 126mm OLN I believe. Seals are knackered.

[inc]

What's your opinion on servicing/fixing fulcrums (5s - the cheapest)? I've got 2 concerns:
- freehub removal/lubing etc (special tool?)
- spoke replacement. Is this possible with conventional spokes (or with a kevlar jobbie)?

I have used the cheapest Campag Vento's for years (£119 from Parkers) I replaced them last year, after four years heavy use because the braking surface was well worn. no problems in all that time, and still true. I replaced them with Fulcrum 7 the cheapest wheels around, the freewheel spring failed within a month apparently a faulty batch, Jim Walker the importers sent me a replacement FOC in the post, simple to replace with a spanner and Allen key, no special tools needed.