Author Topic: Badly produced records  (Read 8272 times)

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Badly produced records
« on: 15 January, 2011, 05:41:48 pm »
Stuff that has the edge taken off it by poor production or, conversely, has been polished to such an extent that it no longer sounds like real instruments being played.

Meat Loaf - Bat Out Of Hell.  Just appallingly muddy.
The Smiths' first album.  Johnny Marr's guitar doesn't jangle.
Anything by The Lightning Seeds.  Punchy, but synthetic.
Queen - One Vision.  One unholy mess, and they even left the unfunny joke at the end.
Any early Dire Straits, which has been smoothed off and ruined.  The live versions on "Alchemy" are much better.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

interzen

  • Venture Altruist
  • Agent Orange
    • interzen.homeunix.org
Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #1 on: 15 January, 2011, 05:45:01 pm »
Rush - Vapour Trails.

Whoever signed-off on that should be shot - more clips in the mix than a branch of Staples.

border-rider

Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #2 on: 15 January, 2011, 07:10:47 pm »
Killers - Hot Fuss

Fantastic record, but shite sound quality.

Rhys W

  • I'm single, bilingual
    • Cardiff Ajax
Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #3 on: 15 January, 2011, 07:22:35 pm »
The Smiths' first album.  Johnny Marr's guitar doesn't jangle.

I have to disagree - it sounds pretty good. Maybe a touch too much of chorus, but it was the 80s after all. Hatful of Hollow has very weak drum sounds, and Meat Is Murder has horrible piezo-pickup acoustic sounds. You're in a studio, mic it up FFS!

Husker Du - Warehouse Songs and Stories. Tinny drums and synthetic-sounding guitars (Bob Mould went straight in to the desk through a distortion pedal I think).

Nobody else will likely have heard of them but the last album by influential Welsh post-punksters Y Cyrff (later to become half of Catatonia) sounds atrocious (flabby, muffled drums, dull guitars and a general lack of imagination). All the more surprising because all their earlier records sound fantastic.

interzen

  • Venture Altruist
  • Agent Orange
    • interzen.homeunix.org
Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #4 on: 15 January, 2011, 07:34:49 pm »
Nobody else will likely have heard of them but the last album by influential Welsh post-punksters Y Cyrff (later to become half of Catatonia) sounds atrocious (flabby, muffled drums, dull guitars and a general lack of imagination). All the more surprising because all their earlier records sound fantastic.
At least one other person here has heard of Y Cyrff :)
Saw 'em live in 1992 (I think) and they were bloody amazing. Also went to one of Catatonia's first gigs at Aber Union - think Super Furry Animals were the support act.

"Mae Ddoe Yn Ddoe" (the nearest they had to a 'best of' compilation) has been on my iPod in its entireity for what seems like forever. The reason I haven't mentioned it in the 'albums with no duff tracks' thread because a) very few people will have heard of it and b) it's a compilation. My copy was transferred from a cassette into digital format via a Tascam 4-track and despite that still sounds very good.

Clandy

Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #5 on: 15 January, 2011, 08:15:14 pm »
Stuff that has the edge taken off it by poor production or, conversely, has been polished to such an extent that it no longer sounds like real instruments being played.

Meat Loaf - Bat Out Of Hell.  Just appallingly muddy.
The Smiths' first album.  Johnny Marr's guitar doesn't jangle.
Anything by The Lightning Seeds.  Punchy, but synthetic.
Queen - One Vision.  One unholy mess, and they even left the unfunny joke at the end.
Any early Dire Straits, which has been smoothed off and ruined.  The live versions on "Alchemy" are much better.

Is this about records or CDs? Because my vinyl copy of Bat Out Of Hell is very clear, as is my gold remastered CD version. I don't see where the 'muddy' accolade comes from?

Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #6 on: 15 January, 2011, 08:16:14 pm »
Led Zeppelin Remasters

Rhys W

  • I'm single, bilingual
    • Cardiff Ajax
Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #7 on: 15 January, 2011, 08:48:01 pm »
Is this about records or CDs? Because my vinyl copy of Bat Out Of Hell is very clear, as is my gold remastered CD version. I don't see where the 'muddy' accolade comes from?

I have quite few early CDs that were transferred from masters of the vinyl album. They all sound a bit weak and low-volume on CD. Older albums remastered specifically for the newer medium sound better.

Seineseeker

  • Biting the cherry of existential delight
    • The Art of Pleisure
Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #8 on: 15 January, 2011, 09:12:19 pm »
Black Sabbath - Born Again. Has to be the worst ever! Plus it has the worst cover in history as well (but that's another thread).


"When I saw the cover I nearly puked", Ian Gillan. Clearly he hadn't heard the final mix because then he would have puked for sure!

Clandy

Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #9 on: 15 January, 2011, 09:41:04 pm »

"When I saw the cover I nearly puked", Ian Gillan. Clearly he hadn't heard the final mix because then he would have puked for sure!

Sabbath with Gillan were shite anyway.

redshift

  • High Priestess of wires
    • redshift home
Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #10 on: 16 January, 2011, 10:47:08 am »
Rush - Vapour Trails.

Whoever signed-off on that should be shot - more clips in the mix than a branch of Staples.

Oh, it's worse than you think.  It's what you get for thinking you can record without engineers, and without understanding what 'headroom' is and why it's used.  I read an interview which said that it's clipped in the master track recordings, so it couldn't be rescued.  Then it went through the 'louder = better' processing too, which removed all the dynamic range.  Truly, a staggeringly bad disc.
L
:)
Windcheetah No. 176
The all-round entertainer gets quite arsey,
They won't translate his lame shit into Farsi
Somehow to let it go would be more classy…

Flying_Monkey

Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #11 on: 16 January, 2011, 01:54:53 pm »
This thread is more surprising for me for the fact that there appears to be more than one person who will admit to owning a Meatloaf album...

interzen

  • Venture Altruist
  • Agent Orange
    • interzen.homeunix.org
Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #12 on: 16 January, 2011, 02:14:53 pm »
Rush - Vapour Trails.

Whoever signed-off on that should be shot - more clips in the mix than a branch of Staples.

Oh, it's worse than you think.  It's what you get for thinking you can record without engineers, and without understanding what 'headroom' is and why it's used.  I read an interview which said that it's clipped in the master track recordings, so it couldn't be rescued.  Then it went through the 'louder = better' processing too, which removed all the dynamic range.  Truly, a staggeringly bad disc.
I've read a couple of articles and interviews about the Vapour Trails disaster. Don't get me wrong, there are some cracking tunes on it (predictably amazing when played live) but quite how the band, being the perfectionists that they're known to be, let the 'producer' get away with what he did will remain a constant source of bewilderment for me. As you say, the master recordings were shot to buggery meaning that we'll only get a decent remaster if the band decide to perform the album in its entireity in the studio.

Fortunately, "Snakes and Arrows" was much, much better.

Surprised that nobody's mentioned Metallica's "... And Justice For All" - the drums sound as tinny as hell, and the bass has been practically washed out of final mix. The end result is an album that sounds like utter shit. Check out this: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/eAvwod7BBK0&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/eAvwod7BBK0&rel=1</a> and <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/eLR6LMvWBiY&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/eLR6LMvWBiY&rel=1</a> to hear what it would have sounded like if Hetfield and Ulrich hadn't been such complete cocks (the version of "Blackened" is particularly awesome). If you listen to the original and hear a loud humming noise then chances are it's the sound of Cliff Burton spinning in his grave.

The only time I ever use 'louder is better' is if I'm looking at getting really nasty distortion and whatnot *by design* which, given that most of what I perform myself is best described as 'beatless ambient', doesn't happen often.

StuAff

  • Folding not boring
Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #13 on: 16 January, 2011, 02:35:36 pm »
Surprised that nobody's mentioned Metallica's "... And Justice For All" - the drums sound as tinny as hell, and the bass has been practically washed out of final mix. The end result is an album that sounds like utter shit. Check out this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAvwod7BBK0 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLR6LMvWBiY to hear what it would have sounded like if Hetfield and Ulrich hadn't been such complete cocks (the version of "Blackened" is particularly awesome). If you listen to the original and hear a loud humming noise then chances are it's the sound of Cliff Burton spinning in his grave.

The only time I ever use 'louder is better' is if I'm looking at getting really nasty distortion and whatnot *by design* which, given that most of what I perform myself is best described as 'beatless ambient', doesn't happen often.

They pretty much deleted Jason's parts, from what I can gather. Never mind all the moaning about 'Death Magnetic' (the release version doesn't sound as 'clean' as the Guitar Hero mixes, but I actually prefer it) this is the worst produced Metallica album IMHO.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #14 on: 16 January, 2011, 02:42:30 pm »
This thread is more surprising for me for the fact that there appears to be more than one person who will admit to owning a Meatloaf album...

and genesis

and Bryan Adams

...

[I'm sure I own - and listen to - many other non-YACF approved albums :) ]
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

interzen

  • Venture Altruist
  • Agent Orange
    • interzen.homeunix.org
Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #15 on: 16 January, 2011, 02:46:48 pm »
They pretty much deleted Jason's parts, from what I can gather. Never mind all the moaning about 'Death Magnetic' (the release version doesn't sound as 'clean' as the Guitar Hero mixes, but I actually prefer it) this is the worst produced Metallica album IMHO.
The bass parts are there, as witnessed by the link to the Guitar Hero version of 'Blackened' I posted, but they're so far back in the mix they may as well not have bothered. It's a well known fact that Jason Newsted was not happy with the final result and, to be honest, who can blame him? I'd have been bloody furious.

I still listen to their first three albums from time to time and wonder how Metallica would have sounded if Cliff was still around ... it's a happier (and much, much heavier!) place.

StuAff

  • Folding not boring
Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #16 on: 16 January, 2011, 03:00:54 pm »
They pretty much deleted Jason's parts, from what I can gather. Never mind all the moaning about 'Death Magnetic' (the release version doesn't sound as 'clean' as the Guitar Hero mixes, but I actually prefer it) this is the worst produced Metallica album IMHO.
The bass parts are there, as witnessed by the link to the Guitar Hero version of 'Blackened' I posted, but they're so far back in the mix they may as well not have bothered. It's a well known fact that Jason Newsted was not happy with the final result and, to be honest, who can blame him? I'd have been bloody furious.

I still listen to their first three albums from time to time and wonder how Metallica would have sounded if Cliff was still around ... it's a happier (and much, much heavier!) place.

Yup...can't have helped the relationship between Jason and the others! In terms of happiness... they'll probably say right now, there always seems to be a good vibe coming from the stage, and James and Lars have grown up a bit (!). I'm not one who thinks 'Metallica haven't made a decent record in XX years', I think DM is great, but you are right...what would they have come up with if Cliff was still with us, or if Jason was (a) still in the band and (b) able to put more of his ideas into practice...? We'll never know...but Rob Trujillo is a worthy successor to those two.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #17 on: 17 January, 2011, 10:31:05 am »
Psychocandy ~ The Jesus & Mary Chain.  They did have a bass player, but you'd never guess from listening to this.

Live At Weeley ~ Pink Fairies.  Admittedly they probably didn't have much to work with as I suspect everyone concerned was stoned out of their gourds, but it sounds as though there's a quarter-mile of hi-tog duvets between the band and the listener.  There are a Several of unofficial Hawkwind releases from the same sort of era, which sound much the same.  Probably for the same reason.

Motörhead ~ Motörhead.  Produced by former Thunderclap Newman type John "Speedy" Keene.  Speedy, by all accounts, was a bit mutt, possibly as a result of knocking around with The Who.  Lemmy says it sounds OK if you get a really powerful stereo and bang the volume right up, but then the neighbours will kill you because their lawn has died.

Raw Power ~ Iggy & The Stooges.  David Bowie's original mix, obv.  James Williamson and Ron Asheton hated Iggy's remix, but there are least two people on here who think it's way better than Bowie's.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

border-rider

Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #18 on: 17 January, 2011, 10:33:13 am »
Psychocandy ~ The Jesus & Mary Chain.  They did have a bass player, but you'd never guess from listening to this.

I've always imagined that the sound of that record is the nearest thing you can get to being smashed on heroin without actually taking any.

Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #19 on: 17 January, 2011, 10:35:37 am »
MOR alert...

Eddie Reader has a great voice, but it was buggered up by very poor finishing on The First of a Million Kisses by Fairground Attraction. There are some really good ballads on that album (honest) but her voice is simply masked on a couple of them.

The Blondie Richard Gotteher albums are much edgier that the Mike Chapman discoesque Parallel lines & subsequent dross.

Angel Eyes on Manifesto was very good, but totally destroyed by the bland mix the chart version was given.
Haggerty F, Haggerty R, Tomkins, Noble, Carrick, Robson, Crapper, Dewhurst, Macintyre, Treadmore, Davitt.

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #20 on: 17 January, 2011, 10:43:26 am »
Psychocandy ~ The Jesus & Mary Chain.  They did have a bass player, but you'd never guess from listening to this.

I've always imagined that the sound of that record is the nearest thing you can get to being smashed on heroin without actually taking any.

Me and my sister used to impersonate the Jesus and Mary Chain by turning on the hoover and singing over it
Their signature sound was a constant drone of feedback 
I'm moved on since my teenage years but my sister is still in a punk rock band

As for the original question, what LPs have bad production, the winner for me is Leonard Cohen's "I'm your man".  The production of the songs on here, the arrangements, although competent are not matching for some of the greatest songs he ever wrote.  I suppose at the end of the 80s his career was at such a low ebb he couldn't get anyone talented to produce it.

His voice and the quality of the song writing still makes it a favourite LP but the use of cheap synthesisers make parts of it sound like a poor demo tape. 

interzen

  • Venture Altruist
  • Agent Orange
    • interzen.homeunix.org
Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #21 on: 17 January, 2011, 10:58:13 am »
Psychocandy ~ The Jesus & Mary Chain.  They did have a bass player, but you'd never guess from listening to this.

I've always imagined that the sound of that record is the nearest thing you can get to being smashed on heroin without actually taking any.
Interesting analogy ...

Listen to any of Loop's records - similar kind of era, and lots of droney guitar sounds (which I really like) but vocals are so low in the mix they're damn near unintelligible, and to make matters worse it sounds like they've been treated with a fair whack of reverb (not as noticeable on "A Gilded Eternity", though)

Never really caught on to JAMC, mainly because of the apparently lack of any bass - being a bass guitarist myself means my ear tends to be drawn towards the lower end :)

The grand cru of 'thoroughly fucked-up production' is still "Vapour Trails" though, IMO,

Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #22 on: 17 January, 2011, 11:15:57 am »
As for the original question, what LPs have bad production, the winner for me is Leonard Cohen's "I'm your man".  The production of the songs on here, the arrangements, although competent are not matching for some of the greatest songs he ever wrote.  I suppose at the end of the 80s his career was at such a low ebb he couldn't get anyone talented to produce it.

His voice and the quality of the song writing still makes it a favourite LP but the use of cheap synthesisers make parts of it sound like a poor demo tape. 

Utterly agreed - is that a sodding Casiotone?
Allow me to explain through the medium of interpretive dance

Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #23 on: 17 January, 2011, 11:36:25 am »
This thread is more surprising for me for the fact that there appears to be more than one person who will admit to owning a Meatloaf album...

I had an MRI scan last weekend.  I'm a wee bit claustrophobic (major understatement) so was struggling not to press the panic alarm the moment they shoved me head first into a noisy magnetic tomb.  But instead of whale song or something cheery like the Smiths or Radiohead they were playing f'ing Bat out of hell.

Struggled not to break the panic button at that point.

It could have been worse.  If it had been country and western I'd have properly freaked out.

interzen

  • Venture Altruist
  • Agent Orange
    • interzen.homeunix.org
Re: Badly produced records
« Reply #24 on: 17 January, 2011, 11:40:21 am »
This thread is more surprising for me for the fact that there appears to be more than one person who will admit to owning a Meatloaf album...

I had an MRI scan last weekend.  I'm a wee bit claustrophobic (major understatement) so was struggling not to press the panic alarm the moment they shoved me head first into a noisy magnetic tomb.  But instead of whale song or something cheery like the Smiths or Radiohead they were playing f'ing Bat out of hell.

Struggled not to break the panic button at that point.

It could have been worse.  If it had been country and western I'd have properly freaked out.
Hmm. I was never asked if I wanted any background music when I had my MRI scan done - then again, I was quite happy to listen to the various whirring, clanking and grinding noises that were going on whilst I was lying down in the belly of the machine, which were quite loud despite me wearing earplugs. This probably speaks volumes about my tastes in music, along with the fact that I very much doubt they'd have played my preferred choons.

Or even heard of them.