Cramps and electrolyte replacement

[Sergeant Pluck]

Recently I seem to be suffering from cramp more than I'd like. This can happen during a ride: after a sustained effort, I get a feeling that if I was to draw my leg up behind me just a fraction more, I'd cramp. Or it's the calves - not quite cramping while riding, but a feeling that I'm about to if I don't make sure the muscles don't shorten to much.
That's on the bike.

The main problem is off the bike, after the ride. On the train getting home again can be a problem - I need to be very careful when sitting so that I don't allow my muscles to shorten too much, e.g. tucking my legs under the seat. Otherwise, instant cramp.

Or in bed the night after a ride: recently I have had the rather unpleasant experience of both legs going into a really bad cramp. It's usually the biceps femoris and maybe the semitendinosus. So I don't have a good leg to help straighten out the cramping one and I lack a willing partner to stretch me out. Agony, and often extremely long in duration.

This can persist for a day or two after a hard ride, despite eating and drinking like a hawg.

I take care to keep well hydrated and I know I need to restore electrolye balance. I use nuuns or similar; I usually get through one of these on a ride and sometimes two. In addition I eat well and drink a variety of other stuff during the day. I pee frequently enough, maybe every 3 hours, to know I am not too dehydrated.

So: how much electolyte replacement is enough? How many nuuns do you get through, if any, on a 80 or 100 mile ride? I am a bit concerned about the amount of salt in these things - I don't want to take on too much salt, just enough to keep in balance.

A nuun has 180 mg of Na⁺ and 50 mg of potassium. How much is that in relation to losses?

Any advice? Or any other hints to avoid cramps?

[hellymedic]

We all sweat differently. My cycling clothes frequently had marked salt tide marks in the summer.
Both the volume and electrolyte concentration in sweat vary with training, the type of exercise, the subject's fatness, , climatic factors such as temperature, wind and relative humidity. etc.
The bottom line is I HAVEN'T A CLUE!

This might not be as unhelpful as it sounds. I also know nothing about nuuns.

What, if anything do you crave on rides?
Do you drink fruit or vegetable juice?

Your problem may not be sodium or potassium lack.

Consider also calcium and magnesium. Since I know little about the exact composition of many supplements and less about the voume and composition of your sweat, my blunderbuss approach is that you should eat/drink
1) What you crave
2) What you fancy, within sensible limits
3) Diluted fruit juice
4) Diluted veg juice, like V8 (may contain much salt, beware)
5) Milk/milkshakes.
 

[mattc]

So: how much electolyte replacement is enough? How many nuuns do you get through, if any, on a 80 or 100 mile ride? I am a bit concerned about the amount of salt in these things - I don't want to take on too much salt, just enough to keep in balance.

A nuun has 180 mg of Na⁺ and 50 mg of potassium. How much is that in relation to losses?

Do they have anything else in them? (If you've got the full ingredient list, feel free to post it!)

[bobajobrob]

the following is the nutritional information for a serving of nuun based on one tablet dissolved in 500ml (~16oz) of water. there are 6 calories per nuun tab.     

active ingredients                                                           level (mg)

Sodium (carbonates)                                                    360.0
Potassium (bicarbonate)                                              100.0
Calcium (carbonate)                                                      12.5
Magnesium (sulfate)                                                      25.0
Vitamin C                                                                          37.5
Vitamin B2                                                                        500mcg

other ingredients: citric acid, sorbitol, sodium carbonate, natural colours flavours, sodium bicarbonate, potassium bicarbonate, polyethylene glycol, magnesium sulfate, sodium benzoate, calcium carbonate, acesulfame potassium, riboflavin-5-phosphate.

[bobajobrob]

I'm not too keen on artificial sweetners, but sorbitol is better than aspartame.

[andygates]

After heavy rides I've been making a point of having a bottle of electrolyte (Nuun here too) whether I wanted it or not.  That's helped a lot.

[cometworm]

One nuun tablet is only for making 500ml of drink, no? If that's all you're drinking in the course of a whole ride you're probably not replacing much.

[Sergeant Pluck]

One nuun tablet is only for making 500ml of drink, no? If that's all you're drinking in the course of a whole ride you're probably not replacing much.

I usually use a nuun in a 700 ml bottle to start with and as the day goes on I drink a variety of stuff as the mood takes me: fruit juice, water, the odd coke, maybe a lucozade.

I feel as if I am hydrating myself well enough and taking on board enough to keep the electrolytes topped up - I wonder is it perhaps a fitness thing.

[mike]

I use 1 Nuun tab per 1L bottle, so I guess it's half strength.  I get through 750ml - 1L per hour of fluid when I'm on the bike (unless it's really cold).

[tiermat]

I use 1 Nuun tab per 1L bottle, so I guess it's half strength.  I get through 750ml - 1L per hour of fluid when I'm on the bike (unless it's really cold).

Wouldn't that make the solution hypertonic, thus making it have the reverse effect of that which is desired?  Or am I understanding such things wrongly?

[Charlotte]

Nuns tend to be quite wrinkly and often taste unpleasant.

I use sachets of Boots own brand blackcurrant rehydration salts.  On TRAT last week it was very, very hot on several days.  Apart from a lot of other grub, we managed to munch our way through rather a lot of ready salted crisps.  Crap energy food, but rather good for getting some salt into you.  Besides; I like crisps.

I didn't cramp at all.

[mike]

Nuns tend to be quite wrinkly and often taste unpleasant.

[off topic]

anyone else play games with Nuns?  We used to play 'nun spotting', where the first person to shout 'Nun!' got a point but that was a bit obvious, so now we play 'nun splitting' where the winner is the person who can get between a pair of nuns as they walk down the street.

Mrs Mike is currently in the lead after a very successful trip to Rome last year   

 

[Tiger]

I suspect this cramping is caused by intense exercise over a long period rather than what you are eating or drinking.  What convinced me in the diagnosis is that the pain apperars to be in the legs - which have been doing all the work - and not in the gut which has been doing the drinking.

The solution is twofold - try cutting down on the exercise when you feel the first symptoms of cramp - or alternatively work on the fitness aspect of things so you can manage more exercise.  You may also get some relief bby hanging upside down by your heels for a bit each night.

Of course plenty of fluids (and don't forget those solids too!) will keep your system hydrated.

[andygates]

Crisps are very good post-ride.

[Sergeant Pluck]

You may also get some relief by hanging upside down by your heels for a bit each night.

Thank you Tiger, I'll bear that in mind. With some practice I could also do this when out on rides, using common roadside objects like signposts.

[Tiger]

You may also get some relief by hanging upside down by your heels for a bit each night.

Thank you Tiger, I'll bear that in mind. With some practice I could also do this when out on rides, using common roadside objects like signposts.

I think you would find that you could doi exactly that with a pair of these http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/comfortstore_2007_18614788

[Sergeant Pluck]

Thanks again, but I think I'll go for the SPD cleat compatible version.

[rogerzilla]

Elete drops have solved it for me.  Cramp caused by low electrolyte is only normally a problem on very long rides (I was getting it at about 70 miles).  If you get it in an evening "10", you're just pushing too hard.

[Sergeant Pluck]

Ta RZ. I was going to ask what those were: I'd been Googling "Eleet" to no avail.

Further to this, I was reading the label on my Zymes and it seems I had been using it a little dilute: it should be 1.5 tablets for a 0.75 l bottle, rather than the 1 I had been using.

Didn't cramp after the Dun Run at all, although I felt I was close a couple of times on the way home in the car - that was probably mostly fear re having cramps when not having room to straighten the legs out.