Rugby World Cup 2015

[Mr Larrington]

Japan & Argentina have grabbed headlines, but they're not the only teams to have played better than many expected.

After their performance in 2007 it would be unwise for anyone to underrate the Pumas.  On yesterday's performances - by both them and Australia - I can see them making the final...

[rafletcher]

It seems proportionate to remember that he spotted a knock-on in the scrum by an Australian and so disallowed an Australian try.  I'm glad I'm not a referee.

I don’t think he saw that knock-on. I think it was spotted by the TMO.

Don't think that's within the remit of the TMO.

Personally I'm happy the Aussies won - but then I spent 6 years living in Scotland listening to those around me wishing the English defeated at every opportunity. Karma. 

[Mr Larrington]

OTOH I should have liked Scotland to win as this might have rewarded us with the rare sight of George Gregan eating humble pie

[mattc]

BBC says regulations wouldn't allow referal to the TMO. He had to call it then as he saw it, and clearly got it wrong. But for the missed conversion..

Yes, I've just checked and you [and the BBC] are correct.

World Rugby Laws state:

The TMO can only be used in the following circumstances:
Determining the grounding of the ball in-goal for a try or touchdown and/or whether players were in touch or touch in goal before grounding.
Determining whether a kick at goal has been successful.
Confirm if an infringement has occurred in the build-up to a try or prevention of a try (infringement must be within two phases of the try or touchdown).
Considering acts of possible foul play.

A gray area but under these regulations he then shouldn't have consulted the TMO with regard to the sin binning.  There was no try, no foul play and by his own admission no infringement in the build up to a try [there was no try or likely try].  He had already indicated that there had been a knock on and scrum awarded to Aus.  I think the TMO called in to Joubert which, under the letter of the law, he shouldn't have done.

IIRC the chat between ref and TMO was partly about a possible try. That seems to justify the TMO's involvement. (They concluded that a try was unlikely, as it happens).


Overall - as with so many sports contests - there were sooo many 50:50 decisions and incidents that its daft to focus on one, and blame the result on that. Of course it does seem to be human nature (or perhaps just sports-fan nature!)

[Jabba]

Joubert's call to the TMO regarding the 'possibility of a try and an intentional knock on' came only after the stadium replay I believe and IMHO is stretching the TMO rules by quite a bit and showing stuff in slo-mo always makes these kind of plays look worse. At full speed it was just a player attempting an interception that went wrong,............ knock on, scrum carry on....

However how many people have complained during this world cup about the TMO 'messing up' the run of the game, slowing things down and being not much cop!!!???  Personally I prefer it when refs make the decision, there have been some very obvious calls that get referred and you think 'cmon get on with it'. 

If we want/need the TMO then why not use the Rugby League methods when all tries get looked at regardless and the last phase of play that led up to it to check for something that might have got missed that would've affected the outcome?

Joubert running off at the end though was a bit disingenuous and but now we're all talking about ref's decisions the way football fans have done for decades, is this the expectation of the professional rugby era.  Ian Madigan complained bitterly to Garces in Cardiff when he tapped the ball 5m out and scored a try only to have it denied due to the ref saying nothing could happen as he was talking with the Argentinian player, but the clock hadn't been stopped!!

Watched both games in the Millennium Stadium, what an atmosphere for both games, we even had 'Fields of Athenry' being belted out on Saturday night's NZ game 

Hugely disappointed for Ireland but well outplayed by a blazing Puma display, almost a perfect replay of Park des Princes 2007 
Big hugs at the end though with the Puma fans who we'd sat with and they looked like all their birthdays had come at once.

Australia needs to watch out though.

My prediction is for a NZ vs Argentina final and the thing is I don't mind who wins. 
Argentina are the only country who can now stop a team being crowned triple World Champions!!

Would love NZ to win for a back-to-back record and conversely would also love Argentina to win for the upcoming and aspiring nations who actually play rugby like we all remember it was like  (maybe need to remove the rose-tinted spectacles but you know what I mean)

[simonp]

World Rugby have said that the penalty was the incorrect decision and it should have been a scrum to Australia.

[mattc]

World Rugby have said that the penalty was the incorrect decision and it should have been a scrum to Australia.

... but taken in the context of sport, where players AND referees make mistakes, it's just bad luck.

(haven't read the report - I assume Scotland are still out?!? )

[simonp]

World Rugby have said that the penalty was the incorrect decision and it should have been a scrum to Australia.

... but taken in the context of sport, where players AND referees make mistakes, it's just bad luck.

(haven't read the report - I assume Scotland are still out?!? )

I said something along the lines of "all Australia need is a penalty" just after Scotland had touched down and converted. If Scotland had managed to hold their line-out and kicked the ball miles downfield then we most likely would be looking forwards to a semi-final against Argentina (which we’d probably have lost).

[LEE]

If Scotland had managed to hold their line-out and kicked the ball miles downfield then we most likely would be looking forwards to a semi-final against Argentina (which we’d probably have lost).

This.

I will never understand why they threw a long ball at that lineout, they basically took out half of their own team, the half that are paid to hold onto the ball until the clock ticks down.

More than that though, it was a decision that required the TMO more than almost any other I've seen in the whole tournament.  When a game hangs on the very final decision of the game then you just go to the TMO, even for obvious ones.  Everyone would understand the reason for it.

Even more than that though.. I'm English and happy the Scots lost, especially in such a manner*

*Oh come on you Scots, you know you'd have enjoyed England losing like that.

[mattc]

There were plenty of equally important decisions. Just cos they happen with an hour left, doesn't make them unimportant.

It's an 80min game. Of 2 halves!

It would feel very artificial - rather like the false drama of X-Factor - to use the TMO for any "last-minute" decision. [and how do you decide what is a "match-changing" decision?!? ]

[LEE]

There were plenty of equally important decisions. Just cos they happen with an hour left, doesn't make them unimportant.

It's an 80min game. Of 2 halves!

It would feel very artificial - rather like the false drama of X-Factor - to use the TMO for any "last-minute" decision. [and how do you decide what is a "match-changing" decision?!? ]

TMO is designed to be used when the referee "can't be sure". 

When the ball is pinging about at a failed lineout, through a bunch of flailing arms, and the final touch is so important, it's a clear case for the TMO.

The ref clearly thought he was sure but, given the situation, it really was impossible to be sure (it wasn't easy to see what happened with 3 slo-mo perspectives on the incident).

Luckily though, in the end, we got the correct decision.  The one that led to Scotland losing 

[simonp]

If the scoreline had been 33-13, no-one would have given a toss. 

[mattc]

There were plenty of equally important decisions. Just cos they happen with an hour left, doesn't make them unimportant.

It's an 80min game. Of 2 halves!

It would feel very artificial - rather like the false drama of X-Factor - to use the TMO for any "last-minute" decision. [and how do you decide what is a "match-changing" decision?!? ]

TMO is designed to be used when the referee "can't be sure". 

When the ball is pinging about at a failed lineout, through a bunch of flailing arms, and the final touch is so important, it's a clear case for the TMO.

YOU may think so, but the rules state otherwise! (see a few posts back for when the TMO is used)

Eventually fans have to accept the role of luck. It was clearly luck that decides a ping-pong like that. Having TMO deosnt make the outcome any "better".

[Psychler]

Luckily though, in the end, we got the correct decision.

Don't think so, correct decision was knock on, scrum put in to Australia [knock on, hit an Aussie, everyone is back onside now].

In my view, all a bit acedemic, the crucial decision was the "deliberate" knock on earlier in the match.

And there ain't nothing changing now!

The one that led to Scotland losing 

 

[simonp]

We have to also remember in the spirit of fairness that England should not have been in such a tough group.

I am switching my allegiance to Argentina for the semis. 

[Mr Larrington]

Luckily though, in the end, we got the correct decision.  The one that led to Scotland losing 

That would normally be the case; however when the opposition is Australia...

[Pingu]

Luckily though, in the end, we got the correct decision.  The one that led to Scotland losing 

In the quarter finals 

[Basil]

Luckily though, in the end, we got the correct decision.  The one that led to Scotland losing 

In the quarter finals 

    

[Wowbagger]

I am surprised how even-handed the Graun's pundits are being with their predictions for today's matches. I suppose I would quite like to see the Pumas beat the Wallabies for the novelty value and, well, it's Australia, isn't it? Otherwise I think I am pretty neutral. I am expecting a NZ v Aus final though.

[Psychler]

I suppose I would quite like to see the Pums beat the Wallabies for the novelty value and, well, it's Australia, isn't it? Otherwise I think I am pretty neutral. I am expecting a NZ v Aus final though.

Agree with this.

Potentially two cracking games this weekend!

Edit.

Well the first one was, although one for the purists perhaps.  A poor first half by the All Blacks [by their standards] but in the end it went to the wire.

[Mr Larrington]

South Africa really failed to take advantage of the extra man either side of half time.

[Wowbagger]

I tried to wATch the march today from our B & b and tuned to BBC. All they had was football results. I concluded that both matches had to be tomorrow and it wasn't ubtil we arrived at a different pub and I checked, when the match was 79 minutes old, that it was ITV that had the rights to this.

[Jaded]

What is this 'ITV' of which you speak

[Mr Larrington]

What is this 'ITV' of which you speak

'tis a purveyor of lqt upon the Anbaric Distascope, m'lud, wrought in wondrous fashion by the Natives of the East from the liver of the Elephant.  You can keep fags in it.

[Wowbagger]

"He's staggering around like a boxer on the canvas..."