Near Miss Today

[Pete]

Rare for me.  Wet roads in drizzle, lunchtime today, I'd signalled right to overtake a parked HGV but was about to turn right (into a private driveway: my workplace as it happens) just beyond the end of the parked lorry.  So I stayed on the crown of the road.

I'm fairly sure I continued to signal right as I was overtaking, to make my intention clear.

Not clear enough for following WVM (well not strictly White Van, it was only one of those 15cwt jobs), he must have reasoned 'it's only a bike, and he's only overtaking the lorry, plenty of room for me too' (there wasn't).  Came to a spectacular skidding halt a few feet short of hitting me.  Very scary!

What can one do?  I can see how one's hand signal may be misinterpreted, but he was wrong to double-overtake anyway.

Incidentally there was no exchange of words.  He just drove off.

[David Martin]

To do? Nothing.

He misinterpreted your intention. He had left sufficient margin for error and was able to correct his course and avoid an accident.

Where is the problem? Near misses don't concern me when they are following an error. When they are a deliberate course of action, then I am concerned as there is then no margin for error.

..d

[Pete]

Maybe so.  It's rather analogous to the familiar situation, where a car is signalling left, but not turning left, instead it's intending to stop by the roadside beyond the junction.  Can be disastrous if you're coming out of that junction.  Some situations you have to assume the worst and be defensive accordingly.  If you want to stay alive that is...

Anyway that little encounter got my pulse racing, normally things for me are much more placid!

[David Martin]

Q. What does a car with it's left indicator flashing as it approaches a junction tell you?

A. That the indicator works. Anything more is an assumption.

[rower40]

Q. What does a car with it's left indicator flashing as it approaches a junction tell you?

A. That the indicator works. Anything more is an assumption.

But it's rare to see a cyclist who has left his arm out by mistake...

Of course, should I wave both arms up and down, it just means that my bike's alarm is going off.

[nuttycyclist]

...
What can one do?  I can see how one's hand signal may be misinterpreted, but he was wrong to double-overtake anyway.
...

Stay as wide as possible, so that the road position backs up the arm signal.

Back up the "I intend to turn right" signal with lots of looking back over the right shoulder.

Plan to abort the manoeuvre if the above fails.

[alexb]

My house is three houses short of a junction. I frequently get twats trying to overtake me as I'm signalling to turn right into my own driveway. This is on a 20mph residential road with speed humps.

I always check before I signal, then before I turn. But my technique now is to make the turn from the right hand lane. That way they can undertake me if they are really desperate.

They are usually assuming that I'm going to turn right at the junction, so I can understand it to some extent. Except that why would you try to overtake a vehicle that's already signalling?

[PrettyBoyTim]

I wonder if the form of hand signal helps?

Normally I just hold my hand out, pointing in the direction I want to go, but sometimes it seems to work more effectively if I face my palm backwards, with the fingers spread out. Probably because it's a fairly universal 'stop' sign.

[clarion]

Odd.  I've taken to pointing, as it is more dynamic, and seems to get me more space.

[mattc]

I also think pointing is good, as is any "deliberate" looking hand shape. If you just lift your arm to 45' with a sort of limp teenager's cant-be-bovvered wrist, it's not very attention-grabbing.

The flat palm facing back is also good when you want to emphasis the  STOP element of your signal.

Either way, getting your arm right out to horizontal has to help.

[juliet]

Except that why would you try to overtake a vehicle that's already signalling?

Because then you might beat them to the junction & be ahead of them!  And bikes are slow!

(I get this on a road close to my house when turning right - unless I'm very assertive when taking the lane, people will overtake close to the junction even if I'm signalling.)

[dkahn400]

Except that why would you try to overtake a vehicle that's already signalling?

Because then you might beat them to the junction & be ahead of them!  And bikes are slow!

(I get this on a road close to my house when turning right - unless I'm very assertive when taking the lane, people will overtake close to the junction even if I'm signalling.)

It's the Golden Rule, innit? All cyclists must be overtaken immediately, regardless of other considerations.

[ABlipInContinuity]

To do? Nothing.

He misinterpreted your intention. He had left sufficient margin for error and was able to correct his course and avoid an accident.

Having to brake a car into a skid means, to me at least, that there was an insufficient margin for the driver of that van to be able to stop it safely.

Not to mention it's bloody frightening when that happens!!

I much prefer the term near hit.

[clarion]

Except that why would you try to overtake a vehicle that's already signalling?

Because they are More Important than you

[Pete]

Having to brake a car into a skid means, to me at least, that there was an insufficient margin for the driver of that van to be able to stop it safely.

Agreed.  A skidding vehicle is a vehicle out of control.  If you skid in the emergency stop in the Driving Test, you will fail the test, I believe.  And deliberately inducing a skid on a public road (e.g. handbrake turn) is a motoring offence is it not?

Not to mention it's bloody frightening when that happens!!

Ditto. 

[David Martin]

Having to brake a car into a skid means, to me at least, that there was an insufficient margin for the driver of that van to be able to stop it safely.

Agreed.  A skidding vehicle is a vehicle out of control.  If you skid in the emergency stop in the Driving Test, you will fail the test, I believe.  And deliberately inducing a skid on a public road (e.g. handbrake turn) is a motoring offence is it not?

Not to mention it's bloody frightening when that happens!!

Ditto. 

Disagree to the first premise. A skidding vehicle takes longer to come to rest than a non-skidding vehicle. So rather than being evidence of a lack of margin for error, the fact that the vehicle stopping was skidding and still had space left over indicates a greater margin for error than needed.

..d

[ABlipInContinuity]

Having to brake a car into a skid means, to me at least, that there was an insufficient margin for the driver of that van to be able to stop it safely.

Agreed.  A skidding vehicle is a vehicle out of control.  If you skid in the emergency stop in the Driving Test, you will fail the test, I believe.  And deliberately inducing a skid on a public road (e.g. handbrake turn) is a motoring offence is it not?

Not to mention it's bloody frightening when that happens!!

Ditto. 

Disagree to the first premise. A skidding vehicle takes longer to come to rest than a non-skidding vehicle. So rather than being evidence of a lack of margin for error, the fact that the vehicle stopping was skidding and still had space left over indicates a greater margin for error than needed.

..d

Then that margin sufficient for a driver that knows how to bing his/her car to a controlled stop in the given situation. If the vehicle goes into an uncontrolled skid the driver has most likely panic braked suggesting the margin was insufficient for them to react appropriately and maintain control of their vehicle.

[nuttycyclist]

They could have braked sensibly and correctly but hit a patch of oil or a wet manhole. 

[ABlipInContinuity]

They could have braked sensibly and correctly but hit a patch of oil or a wet manhole. 

In which case technique of cadence braking needs to be applied?

[David Martin]

Having to brake a car into a skid means, to me at least, that there was an insufficient margin for the driver of that van to be able to stop it safely.

Agreed.  A skidding vehicle is a vehicle out of control.  If you skid in the emergency stop in the Driving Test, you will fail the test, I believe.  And deliberately inducing a skid on a public road (e.g. handbrake turn) is a motoring offence is it not?

Not to mention it's bloody frightening when that happens!!

Ditto. 

Disagree to the first premise. A skidding vehicle takes longer to come to rest than a non-skidding vehicle. So rather than being evidence of a lack of margin for error, the fact that the vehicle stopping was skidding and still had space left over indicates a greater margin for error than needed.

..d

Then that margin sufficient for a driver that knows how to bing his/her car to a controlled stop in the given situation. If the vehicle goes into an uncontrolled skid the driver has most likely panic braked suggesting the margin was insufficient for them to react appropriately and maintain control of their vehicle.

But that proves my point.The margin was sufficient for an out of control driver to bring their vehicel to a halt well before a collision.

Multiple errors, and the appropriate margin left to cope with multiple errors. Now, if you are arguing that every margin for error should have a similar margin for error...

ANd if it was habitual practice then it would be worrying, but in this case it  appears to be a one off

[geoff]

They could have braked sensibly and correctly but hit a patch of oil or a wet manhole. 

In which case technique of cadence braking needs to be applied?

AFAIK cadence braking is hardly needed or used these days because the vehicle's ABS does the job better than most drivers could - and ABS is fitted to most motor vehicles on the road now.