Yet Another Cycling Forum

Off Topic => The Pub => Food & Drink => Topic started by: Manotea on February 21, 2013, 11:27:13 pm

Title: The Bread Thread
Post by: Manotea on February 21, 2013, 11:27:13 pm
I've fired up the Panasonic  for the first time in ages to make a stonking great big seeded white loaf. I'm looking forward to the morning when it's cooled down.

Looks like the ketogenic diet is going to be on hold for a while...   
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on February 22, 2013, 09:35:55 pm
We've been firing up our Panasonic three or four times every week for at least 9 years. It's one of the best investments we've ever made. The bread is invariably excellent and costs a fraction of the inferior product that you pick up from the supermarket or baker's shop. The best thing to complement this bread, in my view, is the Seville orange marmalade that I make. I just wish I had the wherewithal to keep and milk a cow so that I could make my own butter.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: dasmoth on February 23, 2013, 11:59:29 am
My first attempt at a sourdough loaf is currently rising!  Finger crossed...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: orienteer on February 23, 2013, 02:56:05 pm
Crossed with what?

Usually bake a half wholemeal/half seeded white loaf, but currently trying 25/75 mixture for a change. 40 min to go...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on February 24, 2013, 11:22:42 am
I got a bread machine a couple of weeks ago. Having mulled it over for some time and dismissed it on grounds of space (small kitchen) and having that rare thing, a nearby bakery that sells decent bread, I found by chance a machine for only £12 in a charity shop. Bargain! And indeed it is. So far I'm making white loaves in the week (cos that what Little Cudzo likes in his sandwiches) and wholemeal at the weekend (cos that what his parents like), nothing more ambitious yet, but I've noticed an oddity: the wholemeal loaves rise at the sides but not in the middle - at first I thought this was due to old yeast, but it's not - and the white ones rise ok, but the mixing hook always gets stuck inside the loaf! I can't work out why this happens with white loaves only, but in any case, both types taste pretty good.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: jogler on February 24, 2013, 12:05:49 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mflw8-BZdV0
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: clarion on February 24, 2013, 12:29:42 pm
Is he wearing a cottage loaf on his head?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on February 24, 2013, 01:12:32 pm
Cudzo, try adding a little vitamin c to your wholemeal loaves.
Science - http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2007/nov/24/foodanddrink.baking13
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on February 25, 2013, 07:19:52 pm
Thanks - I'll add vit C to my shopping list.

I think I'll try warmer water too. I see that recipe says "warm water", the instructions with my machine say "cool water, 20C" which was puzzling me since 20C doesn't seem like cool water to me (unless I was having a bath in it...).
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gaston Lagaffe on February 25, 2013, 08:22:51 pm
I got a bread machine a couple of weeks ago. Having mulled it over for some time and dismissed it on grounds of space (small kitchen) and having that rare thing, a nearby bakery that sells decent bread, I found by chance a machine for only £12 in a charity shop. Bargain! And indeed it is. So far I'm making white loaves in the week (cos that what Little Cudzo likes in his sandwiches) and wholemeal at the weekend (cos that what his parents like), nothing more ambitious yet, but I've noticed an oddity: the wholemeal loaves rise at the sides but not in the middle - at first I thought this was due to old yeast, but it's not - and the white ones rise ok, but the mixing hook always gets stuck inside the loaf! I can't work out why this happens with white loaves only, but in any case, both types taste pretty good.


We've got a Panasonic, and it started doing this intermittently at first, especially on the timer function.  A google suggests it's a not an uncommon phenomenon.  Panasonic blame the flour. I make a 50/50 mix on the basic program.  It's really annoying as it made perfect HUGE loaves for about 2 years, now they are either dense but a nice small shape, or sunk in the middle.  The wholemeal program is a disaster!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: dasmoth on February 27, 2013, 01:07:21 pm
My first attempt at a sourdough loaf is currently rising!  Finger crossed...

The first one ended up slightly under-baked and doughy.  But had another go yesterday and 'twas nommy.  This may have to become a regular occurrence (especially if I want to keep the bowl of yeast in the airing cupboard under control!)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pickled Onion on February 27, 2013, 01:21:35 pm
My first attempt at a sourdough loaf is currently rising!  Finger crossed...

The first one ended up slightly under-baked and doughy.  But had another go yesterday and 'twas nommy.  This may have to become a regular occurrence (especially if I want to keep the bowl of yeast in the airing cupboard under control!)
It gets even better over the first few loaves. And yes, you have to bake mostly daily, unless you want to do the throw away half and replenish thing, which seems a bit wasteful.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pickled Onion on February 27, 2013, 01:25:37 pm
We've got a Panasonic, and it started doing this intermittently at first, especially on the timer function.  A google suggests it's a not an uncommon phenomenon.  Panasonic blame the flour. I make a 50/50 mix on the basic program.  It's really annoying as it made perfect HUGE loaves for about 2 years, now they are either dense but a nice small shape, or sunk in the middle.  The wholemeal program is a disaster!

I don't own a panasonic, but of the machines I've had the wholemeal program has been rubbish, and had better results for wholemeal bread from the standard white setting (+ darker setting). Sinking in the middle can also be from having too much water in the mix.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pickled Onion on February 27, 2013, 01:32:09 pm
Thanks - I'll add vit C to my shopping list.

I think I'll try warmer water too. I see that recipe says "warm water", the instructions with my machine say "cool water, 20C" which was puzzling me since 20C doesn't seem like cool water to me (unless I was having a bath in it...).

You can get vitamin C powder - pure ascorbic acid - but it's sold "under the counter" as it were, you have to be looked up and down by the pharmacist because apparently it's used as a cutting agent by drug dealers.

The tablets contain all sorts of other stuff as well as ascorbic acid, but probably not enough to worry about in a whole loaf.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gaston Lagaffe on February 27, 2013, 01:34:39 pm
We've got a Panasonic, and it started doing this intermittently at first, especially on the timer function.  A google suggests it's a not an uncommon phenomenon.  Panasonic blame the flour. I make a 50/50 mix on the basic program.  It's really annoying as it made perfect HUGE loaves for about 2 years, now they are either dense but a nice small shape, or sunk in the middle.  The wholemeal program is a disaster!

I don't own a panasonic, but of the machines I've had the wholemeal program has been rubbish, and had better results for wholemeal bread from the standard white setting (+ darker setting). Sinking in the middle can also be from having too much water in the mix.

Thanks I'll give that a go
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on February 27, 2013, 01:47:40 pm
Thanks - I'll add vit C to my shopping list.

I think I'll try warmer water too. I see that recipe says "warm water", the instructions with my machine say "cool water, 20C" which was puzzling me since 20C doesn't seem like cool water to me (unless I was having a bath in it...).

You can get vitamin C powder - pure ascorbic acid - but it's sold "under the counter" as it were, you have to be looked up and down by the pharmacist because apparently it's used as a cutting agent by drug dealers.

The tablets contain all sorts of other stuff as well as ascorbic acid, but probably not enough to worry about in a whole loaf.
Holland & Barrett do jars of Vit C without having to ask for it.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on February 27, 2013, 10:31:14 pm
Thanks - I'll add vit C to my shopping list.

I think I'll try warmer water too. I see that recipe says "warm water", the instructions with my machine say "cool water, 20C" which was puzzling me since 20C doesn't seem like cool water to me (unless I was having a bath in it...).

You can get vitamin C powder - pure ascorbic acid - but it's sold "under the counter" as it were, you have to be looked up and down by the pharmacist because apparently it's used as a cutting agent by drug dealers.

The tablets contain all sorts of other stuff as well as ascorbic acid, but probably not enough to worry about in a whole loaf.
Holland & Barrett do jars of Vit C without having to ask for it.
But that's a health food shop, none of those hippies would be doing drugs, surely?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: dasmoth on March 03, 2013, 07:35:17 pm
I've just discovered BakeryBits (http://bakerybits.co.uk/).  Do NOT click that link if you're already short of storage space in the kitchen.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on March 12, 2013, 09:38:45 pm
Proving baskets - discuss....
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: dasmoth on March 12, 2013, 11:45:09 pm
Proving baskets - discuss....

I'm kind-of after one...

Emily (rightly) asks where we'll keep it, though!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on March 12, 2013, 11:54:42 pm
We do half-and=half loaves mostly: 25 grammes while flour, 250 of wholemeal. Occasionally w do granary.

Our paddle (panasonic) gets stuck in the bread every time now, but we must have made more than 1500 loaves now. I don't mind. It usually tears a bit out of the middle o the loaf, but I eat that bit hot.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on March 13, 2013, 07:36:35 am
Proving baskets - discuss....

Rather spherical.

What is it that it achieves that a plastic bowl covered with a lightly oiled piece of cling film does not? 

I always used to cover with cloth because that's what I always did, but there is no detectable difference. (For the last 10 years I haven't had to cover with anything, thanks to my oven, but that's another story)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Russell on March 13, 2013, 11:10:28 am
We bake several loaves a week and have done for many many years.  We mainly bake the recipe from the Panasonic book that uses 350 wholemeal and 150 strong white.  The paddle rarely gets stuck with that recipe.

R
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on March 13, 2013, 11:24:10 am
We do half-and=half loaves mostly: 25 grammes while flour, 250 of wholemeal. Occasionally w do granary.

Our paddle (panasonic) gets stuck in the bread every time now, but we must have made more than 1500 loaves now. I don't mind. It usually tears a bit out of the middle o the loaf, but I eat that bit hot.
25 grammes while the flour does what?  :D
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on March 13, 2013, 10:53:24 pm
Tonight's loaf is the best bread so far. Because: more than enough yeast and a little bit of Vit C!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: RJ on March 14, 2013, 01:18:56 pm
I've stopped using our bread machine.

Instead, I mix 1000g of flour's worth of dough in a big mixing bowl using a hand mixer and dough hooks, and then use Dan Lepard's 3-x-10-second-kneads-in-half-an-hour method (do just that; leave another 40 minutes or so to rise; knock-back and shape*; leave to prove another 40-60 minutes**; bake ~20 minutes @240°C (220°C fan), then reduce the heat to 200°C (180°C) for another ~20 minutes until done***).

* - I divide between 2 large loaf tins, lightly greased and with a spinkle of semolina in the bottom; and shape by flattening each portion of dough into a rough rectangle and roll like a swiss roll

** - I slash the top of the dough with a serrated knife; not just decorative - it seems to help the bread bake and rise evenly in the oven

*** - until it looks done, basically.  In our oven, set at those temperatures, 18 minutes + 18 minutes works


This is a really easy way to make bread - and less faff than the bread machine because you get 2 big loaves for one lot of effort.  If you have a big oven, you could get even more bang for your minimal kneading buck.

50:50 white:wholemeal is my basic everyday mix, sometimes substituting some rye or spelt for some of the wholemeal.

Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: ferret on March 14, 2013, 01:26:17 pm
I've just managed to get my sourdough starter started, it took several attempts but "Stanley" is now bubbling away quite contentedly, now just have to make a bit of time to do my first sourdough loaf :) 
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on March 14, 2013, 03:17:04 pm
I too do the 'Lepard method', although it's usually lucky if it gets 2 sets of 20 kneads these days, and I've not noticed much difference.

Re: the proving baskets, I was wondering if it would help with my sourdough which doesn't have any pockets in it. However it's already left to prove in a bowl, but maybe baking it on a sheet instead of in a loaf tin would help generate some air pockets?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: SteveC on March 14, 2013, 07:45:13 pm
Re: the proving baskets, I was wondering if it would help with my sourdough which doesn't have any pockets in it. However it's already left to prove in a bowl, but maybe baking it on a sheet instead of in a loaf tin would help generate some air pockets?

Is the dough wet enough?  I think the 'holey' breads usually have a lot more water than normal breads. 
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on March 23, 2013, 11:48:55 am
At some point this weekend, I'll bake my first loaf. Perusing a few recipes, it seems that a strong flour is best. Whereas my cupboard contains not-strong but good quality white flour, and some nice wholemeal flour, also not strong. Safe to proceed, or would I be better getting some strong?

I also haz ascorbic acid.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: dasmoth on March 23, 2013, 11:52:24 am
Strong == high gluten content.  I think a loaf made without any strong flour will be, at best, "close textured".  50% strong, 50% normal is probably workable (indeed, I think that works better for pizzas than all-strong).

You could probably make a decent loaf of soda-bread with not-strong flour.

Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on March 23, 2013, 11:59:50 am
I've made wholemeal only before now and it was edible, it'll just be a bit bigger and springier if you use strong too.
I like Felicity Cloake's articles where she's done all the experimentation for you.... http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2010/jun/10/how-to-bake-wholemeal-bread?INTCMP=SRCH
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on March 23, 2013, 01:33:19 pm
I am currently making this http://www.dovesfarm.co.uk/recipes/black-rye-bread/ to use up the rye flour that I've had sitting around for a while. The treacle was well out of date and I completely ignored the 'dispose of at end date' instructions on the lid but I'm sure it'll be fine...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on March 23, 2013, 04:55:04 pm
Thanks dasmoth & Mrs. Pingu.

Can you point me to a simple Dan Lepard recipe that requires only white flour - I have now acquired strong. As above I do also have wholemeal flour but it's not the strong variety. I have all the other stuff, yeast (Allinson's quick variety) etc.

Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: SteveC on March 23, 2013, 05:14:19 pm
Not Dan Lepard but this is probably worth a look

http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/paul_hollywoods_bloomer_84636

I've not tried his methods but intend to.  I have all the ingredients for the his malt loaf recipe downstairs.  If I have time tomorrow evening   :D
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on March 23, 2013, 05:33:47 pm
Thanks - I see that I'm low on olive oil so I'll try this one I think - linked to from yours - that uses butter instead:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/paul_hollywoods_crusty_83536

They both use rather a lot of salt! What function does that serve in baking?

I like the idea of kneading with oil rather than flour, might give that a go too.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on March 23, 2013, 05:49:21 pm
For my wholemeal I use normal wholemeal with strong white,  you don't have to have strong w/meal.
My everyday bread uses Sainsburys Seeded Wholemeal bread flour. To this I add yeast, Vit c and about 40 ml oil (i have hazelnut & walnut oil for baking).
I don't use as much salt as is in the recipes, I have always assumed it's a chef thing.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pickled Onion on March 23, 2013, 08:10:43 pm
If you use soft white flour, ie not strong flour, the bread tends to taste like stale biscuits. Wholemeal has a lot more flavour so it doesn't seem to affect how it tastes, just how well it rises.

The function of the salt is to temper the action of the yeast so that it rises enough but doesn't get carried away. I forgot the yeast salt recently and the dough rose right up and lifted the lid of the bread machine - managed to rescue it but the bread tasted pretty crap. Two teaspoons of salt sounds like a lot but that's for a kilogram loaf so there's not actually much per slice.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: orienteer on March 24, 2013, 10:13:50 am
Presumably you mean you forgot the salt rather than the yeast.

I forgot the yeast once, although the result was edible it was pretty solid.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pickled Onion on March 24, 2013, 10:18:47 am
Opps! yes, the salt!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on March 24, 2013, 09:35:21 pm
Still haven't made a loaf - had difficulty settling on a recipe so put it off. However, I did make nommy maple and blueberry scones. And more brownies...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Eccentrica Gallumbits on March 25, 2013, 02:13:12 pm
One of my colleagues has just opened a deli, with her husband. Today she brought in a dozen of the weekend's unsold loaves and sold them to us for £1 each. I bought an onion loaf and a French wholemeal. Half the onion loaf is gone already.  :smug:
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: ferret on March 25, 2013, 05:36:39 pm
Oh deary me, my sour dough bread was a complete disaster it failed miserably and tasted disgusting, still the dogs liked it :)
think I'll stick to normal yeast in future   
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on March 26, 2013, 11:29:40 am
The white loaf that's in the machine right now has risen almost over the top! I did add a whole sachet of dried yeast, which is (at least) what they recommend for a wholemeal, and white always rises a bit more. Should keep us fed!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on March 26, 2013, 01:10:31 pm
Hmmm. I bought some Allinsons Seeded flour when Sainsbury's Seeded Wholemeal was out of stock, not realising the Allinsons was white flour.
The Sainsburys states 1 tsp of yeast whereas the Allinsons quoted a whole sachet, which I thought was a bit much, so I went for 1.5tsp being as I mixed with 50% wholemeal flour.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: ferret on March 28, 2013, 02:29:46 pm
Does any body have a good used recipe for dairy free bread,preferably one for the machine.  I know they're out there but it's knowing which ones work, thought I might be able to save some time and money if some one one here has one that works, TIA :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pickled Onion on March 28, 2013, 02:35:47 pm
Isn't bread normally dairy free?

Standard bread-machine recipe:
300g liquid 500g flour 2tsp yeast 2tsp salt
where the liquid is either all water or includes 10-20g of oil (olive or sunflower)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: ferret on March 28, 2013, 02:57:47 pm
the recipe I follow includes milk powder and butter, I already use olive oil instead of the butter but not sure what to replace the milk powder with,
actually just looking at the book it's there to enhance the flavour, increase nutritional value, so looks like I could leave it out.
All this lactose free stuff is new to me one of our boys is intolerant, steep learning curve ahead:)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: SteveC on March 28, 2013, 03:14:42 pm
Just omit the milk powder.
There was a fad for adding milk powder to breads in the early days of home baking in the US. I've not found that it makes that much difference to a standard loaf.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 02, 2013, 12:10:24 pm
I made my first rye bread at Easter. Actually it's only 3/7 rye, the rest is white wheat flour. It looked strangely lumpy on top but the texture inside, and the taste, are good. I'll try another one with more rye.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: JonBuoy on April 05, 2013, 05:49:58 pm
I have had a couple of goes at making rye bread and it has not been all that successful.  Which recipe did you use ?

Last weekend I made Dark Ale and Walnut Bread (http://www.bakingmad.com/recipes/breadmaker/dark-ale-and-walnut-bread) - it was very tasty.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 05, 2013, 06:40:16 pm
I just used the standard recipe for my bread machine, replacing some of the wheat flour with rye. Nothing else. I've since made another which was 4/7 rye (funny proportions cos of the way the recipe is measured, in cups - provided with the machine - I think it must be a Leftpondian manufacture, but it works). The 4/7 actually came out a bit better.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ewan Houzami on April 06, 2013, 12:12:21 am
I've also decided to ditch the bread machine as 1) I can pretty much 'do' a machine-sized loaf in one hit 2) the cuboid shape doesn't satisfy my rustic sensibilities, and 3) I don't have enough room to keep that many kitchen gadgets. (My homebrew kit now takes up an entire cupboard...) So today, I made my first 1kg Lepard inspired 50% white/50% wholemeal loaf, with a couple of short kneads and a 2 hour rise. Not having a suitable bread tin, it went in my fake Le Creuset casserole pot. Turned out lovely, all stretchy gluten patterns in the wonderfully wobbly and mis-shapen crust, and just right for having the remains of Monday's roast lamb slammed between some slices with some mayo and tomato.

Wanting to make a rye loaf next, and I've discovered that my local supermarkets no longer stock rye flour (and my local Lidl no longer sells their spectacularly-valued and humungously-sized rye loaves). It's always the way isn't it? As soon as I find something interesting or tasty in a supermarket they stop selling it. I'm sure I can track down some Doves Farm rye flour from somewhere, but sometimes the faff involved outweighs the point of making your own.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on April 06, 2013, 08:58:33 am
I found some interesting flour I wanted to try on the internet but they only sell through Amazon, and I don't really want to buy 4 x 1.5kg bags at a time.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ewan Houzami on April 21, 2013, 05:45:01 pm
Oh Happy Day! My local Tesco is now stocking Doves Farm organic rye flour. Must be the Hollywood effect.

I've been reading a bit about sourdough, and have just made my 'levain' (or 'starter'). Seems like it's the bread equivalent of brewing lambic ales, in that both use airborne yeasts. Does the lactobacillus that gives the sour taste do good things for your gut also - like natural yogurt does?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: sas on April 21, 2013, 07:46:12 pm
Does the lactobacillus that gives the sour taste do good things for your gut also - like natural yogurt does?
I think it's safe to say they won't be alive after being baked in an oven at 200C.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ewan Houzami on April 21, 2013, 08:14:48 pm
Aaah yes...  ;D
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 24, 2013, 01:26:00 am
After a couple of days of commercial bread and takeaway sandwiches, it's so good to get home and eat my own bread.  :thumbsup: Hmm - not so long ago I'd have been perfectly happy with supermarket bread - I've spoiled myself.  :-\ Still, it is good to eat it. And bake it. Oh dear, that's why I'm still up at this silly hour. Bed now!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pickled Onion on April 26, 2013, 03:23:52 pm
Forgot to put the machine on last night, enough homemade bread from yesterday for the shallot's sarnies, crap plastic bread from tesco for me  :(
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on April 27, 2013, 10:23:33 pm
I made an ale and oat loaf but replaced the pale ale with stout. Overcooked it a little bit and the taste is quite strong (it uses black treacle aswell) but it's delicious. The recipe was from the Paul Hollywood book I've been given. I don't use as much salt as he says though.
Like Goldilocks I don't use a bread machine but prefer the thumping/ workout the kneading gives me.
I'm the only one who eats bread in my house so I get it all to myself  :thumbsup:(although this isn't always a good thing).  :hand:

Anyone else make soda bread? Must be one of the easiest things to make and to be honest I can't tell the difference between using "proper" buttermilk or vinegar and milk substitute. Great if you're in a hurry. 
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ewan Houzami on May 04, 2013, 12:35:43 am
All in it's taken nearly two weeks from start to finish  :o, but I've just had the first slice cut from a great big, domed and crusty slab of airy loveliness, that's my first rye and white sourdough loaf. The starter is quite vinegary which I don't mind, and I probably need to rebalance it somehow to get more of a lactic taste, but I think I'm finally getting the hang of this breadmaking lark.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on May 04, 2013, 03:43:21 am
What method did you use to make the sourdough bread?  Am using a few internet versions and can seem to get the bread to be fluffy and light.  The only thing I can think is that I use flour on my hands and worktop to keep the bread from sticking.  Have tried proving the dough at room temp, the airing cupboard and the fridge.

Any hints?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ewan Houzami on May 04, 2013, 11:48:53 am
What method did you use to make the sourdough bread?  Am using a few internet versions and can seem to get the bread to be fluffy and light.  The only thing I can think is that I use flour on my hands and worktop to keep the bread from sticking.  Have tried proving the dough at room temp, the airing cupboard and the fridge.

typo for 'can't' ? Maybe it's all relative as a rye loaf is never going to be as light as a white, but it compared to stuff I'd bought.

I reckon it was about 200g of pure rye starter, 300g rye, 300g strong white, 2tsp salt, a bit of sugar and enough water to make a kneading consistency (scales are bust, so I'm estimating!) I omitted Vit C as my thinking was that there are enough acids present in the starter to feed the yeast. kneaded for fiveish minutes using the occasional teaspoon of extra virgin smeared on the worktop to prevent sticking, as my understanding is that having a fat in the mix helps the bread keep for longer, and I like the glossiness it gives the dough. Proofed for a couple of hours, folded and then shaped into a zeppelin, and put onto an oiled baking tray as I don't have a suitably sized receptacle. Not being the firmest of doughs it spread outwards, but still gained height (warmish kitchen for a couple of hours). I bunged it in the oven when I saw big bubbles opening near the surface, and I possibly could have left it even longer but it was nearing bedtime!

So maybe a mish-mash of techniques, but I'm happy to experiment.

Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on May 04, 2013, 02:19:25 pm
Ah this is not a rye loaf just usually bread flour either white or wholemeal.

What I have found in the worktop that I use in lightly dimpled so seems to attract the dough.  The amount of oil I use seems to be alots as the surface is forever sticky.  Also I suspect that I'm under kneading the dough.  Am kneding by hand and trying to get the window paneing but seem to get the bread tearing when I get a fingerful of dough.

I suspect things might be better with a smooth surface.  I have a brushed stainless steel surround that I should flatten out and see if I can use that.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on May 04, 2013, 08:53:11 pm
Have found an unused stainless chimney hood.

(http://fotcad.com/image/cache/data/extrafile_24513-500x500.jpg)

Quick soak in bleach and tomorrow it will be ready to be used, well after I straightened it.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pickled Onion on May 05, 2013, 01:49:19 pm
Just took my kenwood machine back under guarantee, the third one to fail in three years so I said no thank you to a direct replacement. I guess most people only use them once a week, they are just not built for daily use.

I have now just "fired up the panasonic" and await the results.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on May 06, 2013, 01:07:59 am
Done a quick wholemeal sourdough mix and have just noticed that I forgot the salt.  Oh well.

Did the kneading, but seem to tear the dough more than the window paining.  Decided to try the knead it a bit, leave it for 5 mins the knead again.  Its now in a cling film covered bowl till either tomorrow morning or if I stay up till the bread has grown to twice its size.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on May 06, 2013, 12:58:52 pm
The bread rose and was knocked back.  Have separated the dough in to two balls and cut chris cross in the top, and placed them in a pie tin.  The dough is still wet and has spread across the pan.

Will see what happens in several hours.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ewan Houzami on May 07, 2013, 04:58:32 pm
My experience so far is like yours, in that sourdough comes out wetter hance gives a flatter loaf. I'll try another later this week, and see how dry I can make the dough.

Now I've had a look here (http://sourdough.com/forum/my-dough-too-wet-soft-and-doesnt-rise) I wonder if your starter is overripe. That said, the loaves in the pics look fine to me.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on May 07, 2013, 06:13:07 pm
Dumped the starter today.  maybe I'll make another but not for a while.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on May 26, 2013, 08:05:32 pm
I had a go at a sourdough loaf recently. Used rhubarb to start the starter and after three days it smelled foul. Continued with it and made the loaf and let it prove overnight (much longer than the recipe said). It was a wet dough, so I used a tin to bake it in to contain it. The loaf is a bit heavy and tastes cheesy but it's palatable enough. The semolina dusting tastes good.
Think next time I need to be more careful with the starter to make sure there's enough ooomph to make the air holes.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on June 04, 2013, 06:19:52 pm
Another go at a sourdough loaf and similar results to the first (ie a bit heavy). Don't really understand as the sourdough cakes I made a while back (using exactly the same method of starting) were fine.  Think I will start from scratch again, but not for a while as soda bread is so much easier.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 17, 2013, 11:58:52 pm
Today's bread rose and rose till it was pushing up the lid of the machine! I don't know why it rose so much, I didn't (consciously) do anything different...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on June 23, 2013, 10:54:15 am
Continuing to bake loaves a couple of times a week - current favourite is Dan Leppard's walnut loaf, with varying proportions of wholemeal and plain flour. Most excellent, esp the nommy roasted walnuts in the crust. Fancy trying spelt flour next. I also need to get it together to freeze some part-baked dough or even freeze some loaves, whatever is best.

How are you all storing your bread? We currently lack a bread bin but I think I need to get one.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on June 23, 2013, 11:05:43 am
Sliced into the freezer, usable instantly.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: woollypigs on June 23, 2013, 12:44:24 pm
I'm on a mission to bake my mum's(well rather my dad's since it is he who bakes it) rye bread that has fed the family for over 25 years. The sour dough has been passed to many friends and family over the year. Sadly it will be too hard to transport a "starter pack" of sour dough over here from Denmark, without it starting to do its job.

The main problem is to find the right rye and flour over here. Getting the right cream and a cream that behaves like the cream in Denmark has caused a few not so good batches of my mums home made ice cream. So getting the right stuff is rather important.

I have asked over here on Ham flour power (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=73052.0) thread about it.

Multi grain bread is probably my starter to get used to the dough and our oven, which one would the panel recommend as a starter ?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 23, 2013, 01:17:49 pm
In what way is the cream in Denmark different? Perhaps you might find something similar in a polskish sklep - I've no idea if it will be what you're looking for, but their dairy products are certainly a bit different (and more various) than English ones.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: woollypigs on June 23, 2013, 01:30:33 pm
I'm not a dairy specialist but it didn't fluff up right and didn't behave the way I'm used to in DK.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on June 23, 2013, 02:13:50 pm
Does anyone use a food mixer / dough maker for their bread?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: woollypigs on June 23, 2013, 02:29:50 pm
My mum does and its call dad :-) I might do it for the rye bread since I'm told it is a good old workout. But I do like get my fingers dirty and doing the kneading.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on June 25, 2013, 07:15:24 pm
I think I've got a duff batch of yeast. This is the 2nd loaf of bread I've made that isn't rising properly the 2nd time :(
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on June 29, 2013, 04:47:30 pm
I've got a wholegrain sourdough starter but not enough wholemeal flour to make a loaf. I do have a bag of Wholegrain rye flour. Any good rye sourdough recipes I might be able to get away with?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pancho on June 29, 2013, 04:54:21 pm
I bought two loaves from my daughters' school today. The pupils make bread every week and in the last week of the year do all night baking sessions so there's plenty to take home.

All fully hand made in an ancient old bake house with, I hadn't realised, a wood-fired oven. Tastes absolutely delicious. And the bakery smells gorgeous; wood smokey and bready.

The little ones spend a lot of Wednesdays collecting and chopping firewood. But it's well worth it.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on June 29, 2013, 10:00:26 pm
My local bakery used to use a charcoal oven till recently, then the father retired and I guess the son didn't fancy getting up so early each day and it was replaced with either electric or gas (not sure which). The bread doesn't taste the same, the charcoal loaves were fantastic.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: renard on July 02, 2013, 11:08:43 am
Does anyone use a food mixer / dough maker for their bread?

We got a Kenwood Prospero food mixer at christmas and  I use it to make bread.  Still experimenting, but it does a grand job of kneading the dough with a dough hook.

The breads seem to rise a lot more than one I made with hand kneading, although I have switched to trying Paul Hollywood's recipes which seem to use a bit more yeast.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on July 02, 2013, 12:50:48 pm
So....I made my sourdough with a w/meal starter and 1:2 w/meal to rye flour for the dough. After reading the blog I posted on the flour power thread I thought that possibly the reason my sourdough never has holes in it was a)high protein flour 15%!! and/or b) not enough water.

Obviously because I used a different recipe with the rye flour I didn't know how much water to put in so I did it by feel and tried to go for the wet side.
The dough was very nicely full of holes after the first rise but I think I might have lost most of it when I tried to get it in the tin.
The resulting loaf - a few tiny holes, but nothing like sourdough typically looks like.

Oh, and stupidly when I made the dough I forgot to keep back some of the starter, so now I don't have a starter anymore  :'(
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on July 06, 2013, 01:42:46 pm
Too hot out there for me today. I'm staying mostly in until normality resumes. I've acquired some spelt flour. Any good recipes? Is it really as easy as my first couple of googlings suggest - hardly any kneading required? I also haz walnuts - would a walnut spelt loaf be nice?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on July 06, 2013, 02:01:16 pm
Actually I fancy this one:


http://www.sharphampark.com/about-spelt/spelt-recipes/sour-dough-with-dates-and-walnuts

But how do I make a leaven?

Quote
150g of a 50/50 spelt/wheat leaven

Edit: Oh. I see that if I wanted a leaven, I'd have had to start making it about a week ago. Bah.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on July 09, 2013, 10:49:50 pm
A bit of a success! Tried again at a sourdough loaf. Just mixed 25g of rye flour with 50g of water each day for five days and then used the starter (which had bubbled up nicely) to make the loaf. Used stoneground flour in the final part. The dough was quite wet and I think next time I'll use a tin, as this time it flattened a bit too much and the tin would help it keep shape. Tasty all the same, but the crust is a little too thick.
Onwards and upwards!!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on July 23, 2013, 08:41:08 am
Another success, this time with soda bread, adding a tbsp of black treacle to the mix. Absolutely superb taste and it went well with cheese (Leigh toaster) and a glass of stout. I could live on that!!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on July 23, 2013, 02:55:03 pm
soda bread

Ooh. Recipe?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: woollypigs on July 23, 2013, 03:19:18 pm
I know its a sin to mention it here and I'm ready for the hounds.

But, I baked a loaf today with pre mixed flour packs where you just add a bit of water, throw it in the oven and then eat.  It is rather nice sure truly home made from scratch can only be better.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on July 23, 2013, 05:46:47 pm
OK Sergeant pluck (and anyone else), soda bread recipe I use.

500g flour (I use stoneground wholemeal, but have had good results with wholemeal and white mixed)
1 tsp bicarb of soda
1 tsp salt
420ml buttermilk (in place of buttermilk I put three tbsps of lemon juice in the jug and fill up to the 420ml mark. Leave five minutes for it to curdle, then use)

1. Mix  flour, bicarb and salt
2. Add buttermilk (or substitute), mix with wooden spoon to form a sticky dough
3. Flour a work surface, tip the dough out and roll it around to form it into a ball (not kneading it)
4. Flatten top slightly
5. Put on non stick baking tray and cut a cross into the flattened ball, cutting deep and opening the cross out a bit (this is so the inside bakes properly)
6. Leave for 30 minutes
7. Heat oven to 200C and cook for 30 minutes
8. Leave to cool completely

As an extra speciality, add 1 generous tbsp of black treacle to the dough at number 2, and mix well, you will need to add a small amount of extra flour. This is superb with stout and cheese.
I've also made variations with added honey and walnuts.
 
I would say it's a piece of cake to make but it's even easier than that!!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on July 23, 2013, 09:08:01 pm
I know its a sin to mention it here and I'm ready for the hounds.

But, I baked a loaf today with pre mixed flour packs where you just add a bit of water, throw it in the oven and then eat.  It is rather nice sure truly home made from scratch can only be better.

The Waitrose bread mixes are said to be very good although I haven't tried one.

OK Sergeant pluck (and anyone else), soda bread recipe I use.
/
I would say it's a piece of cake to make but it's even easier than that!!


Thanks! I'll be giving that a go in due course. And that reminds me, I still haven't made a cake.

5. Put on non stick baking tray and cut a cross into the flattened ball, cutting deep and opening the cross out a bit (this is so the inside bakes properly)

Interesting - I always do some cuts on my loaves (my latest ones are a mix of rye and white, getting a bit bored with my usual walnut / olives / dates variations) and I thought they were purely decorative. 
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on July 23, 2013, 09:19:15 pm
Anyone made hazelnut bread?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on July 27, 2013, 10:22:18 am
Anyone made hazelnut bread?

Mrs P, the thing is with adding nuts to dough is that it can be a little painful when kneading if done by hand so take care when doing so. I finely crush half the amount of nuts I am using (to give the dough the flavour) and keep the other half in big chunks (for the texture). For hazelnuts I'd toast the nuts first, gives a lovely flavour.
An advantage to using the soda bread recipe above is that, as no kneading is required, the problem doesn't exist in that type of loaf. I'd use a bit of honey aswell.
I've made both sorts of loaf and can recommend both.

Most important thing is ....... let us know how you get on       :thumbsup: 
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: SteveC on July 27, 2013, 10:40:10 am
I know its a sin to mention it here and I'm ready for the hounds.

But, I baked a loaf today with pre mixed flour packs where you just add a bit of water, throw it in the oven and then eat.  It is rather nice sure truly home made from scratch can only be better.
I've not used one for decades, but we used to bake bread when we were on canal boat holidays using those. When our most experienced bread maker had her turn, she was generally impressed but decided to add some oil to the mix. I seem to remember the results were pretty good all week but the beer before hand might have helped! Our routine was to make the bread after breakfast with the aim of getting it cooked by about twelve, then go to the pub and return for bread and cheese lunch with the fresh loaf.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on July 27, 2013, 10:59:23 am
When I add nuts to bread, usually walnuts, I add them after I've kneaded the bread and left it to rest for an hour. Then I just knock the air out, flatten it, scatter walnuts, roll it up, flatten again, add more nuts, repeat maybe twice more. Then form the loaves and rest again before putting into the oven. So I don't knead with the nuts in.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on July 27, 2013, 07:06:01 pm
Nice tip, Sgt P, will try that way. My problem is that years ago I managed to draw blood on a viciously sharpened pumpkin seed whilst kneading and the memory has stuck with me since !!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on July 27, 2013, 07:27:37 pm
I did the same last time I made my walnut & raisin bread. I didn't find any hazelnut bread recipes that weren't more like a dessert so I'll take TEC's advice and try just bunging them in a wholemeal loaf...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on September 02, 2013, 03:51:36 pm
Back from hollybobs with a sneaky extra day and have researched sourdough again, I am determined to get it properly holey this year!
After reading Whitley, Lepard and the aforementioned blog I have this afternoon started a Rye starter and once that's going I'm going to try Whitely's Cromarty Cob recipe. If I don't get on with that I might try something else. And now I'm off to see about getting some fancy flours....
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on September 07, 2013, 11:40:11 am
That did not go particularly well. I decided to keep to my usual bake in a tin method. However, once I'd left the production leaven for a bit I then stuck it in the tin and left it in a carrier bag for a few hours.
I then had a few gin and tonics. Come the end of the night it didn't appear to have risen at all, certainly nowhere near the top of the tin, but I thought 'sod it' and baked it anyway.
It's a bit like a brick, and having sawed it open this morning it's not been baked long enough either. :(

I must admit, that despite all his protestations of simplicity I'm finding Andrew Whitely's method rather enlongated and confusing. My previous method involved feeding a small starter for a few days and then using all of that to create the final dough. Whitely's method of making a starter and then fermenting a leaven and then making a dough I don't really get....
Confused of Furrybootoon.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on September 09, 2013, 07:50:06 am
I bring you The Wedgie Roll tm (c) Ham 2013 all rights reserved

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dT1iLVnX3bk/Ui1tqnLTXaI/AAAAAAAAq3E/DiKIvwYZtIY/s800/DSCN0232.JPG)

Cooking for a  dinner party on Saturday night, I thought I would experiment, and now can't understand why this isn't more common (I've never seen this suggested before, have you?). Baking up 500g of flour into rolls, after the first prove I formed into a round and sliced into 1/4 then each into into 3 wedges, with a knife sharp enough to cut. The result is a roll with an extra crusty bit, and they stack up well in a bread basket.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on October 20, 2013, 09:27:57 pm
A great success with a sourdough loaf. I'd made the starter and left it in the fridge and to be honest forgot about it. This would be in July. Anyway I decided to risk using it two days ago as it had the appearance which my book suggested (a dark film across the top) and the book said it would be good and it made a really tasty loaf. Holes and everything  :thumbsup: I've now started another lot.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on October 21, 2013, 02:37:44 pm
Recently I've been leaving the oil out of my bread. The first time was an accident, I mentioned it and Mrs Cudzo said it seemed a bit dry, but I tried it again and it seemed ok to me - didn't mention it and she hasn't commented. So now I've stopped putting the oil in and it doesn't seem at all dry. In fact it doesn't really seem any different, except perhaps it rises a tiny bit more. So what role does the oil actually play?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on October 21, 2013, 02:43:20 pm
I think it helps with the consistency and slightly with the flavour. I think it is also easier to get a crust without oil, but it doesn't keep. Why leave it out?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on October 22, 2013, 06:22:10 pm
The first time was an accident, I was in a hurry and just forgot.  :facepalm: But then I thought I'd try it deliberately to see how it turned out - and as it turns out well, I don't see any point adding it. It's probably the largest single use of oil in our kitchen recently so it should cut the grocery bills a tad too, but tbh that only just occurred to me!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on October 22, 2013, 06:44:49 pm
How much do you put in? How do you get by without using oil in the kitchen?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on October 22, 2013, 07:01:13 pm
One tablespoon in a medium sized loaf. I didn't say we don't use oil in the kitchen, just that three or four loaves a week seems to be the largest single usage - no, I haven't measured this!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on November 01, 2013, 06:03:16 pm
My latest bread has been a couple of loaves with raisins and black treacle. The book I got it from calls it "Maritimer's Bread". The oats, raisins, treacle, bit of butter and water are left to soak overnight then added to the flour, yeast, salt and kneading and proved in the normal way. It is a very sticky dough to work with but the results are excellent.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on November 13, 2013, 01:52:43 am
Am deciding to restart my sour dough again.  This time no yoghurt or rhubarb just 50g of wholemeal bread flour and some tap water at room temperature and see what happens.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on November 13, 2013, 05:50:44 pm
That's what I do to start the sourdough. 50g of flour and same of water each day for five days, then use it, if it is frothing up, (it might need an extra day). I tried with rhubarb and apple and it didn't really work.
If I'm not ready to use straightaway, I put in the fridge and leave it till I am ready. After a while it looks like this
(http://i41.tinypic.com/i724w6.jpg)

I left some on the fridge for months like this (actually I had forgotten about it) and it made a great loaf. Apparently it'll keep like this for years.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on November 13, 2013, 08:19:57 pm
Will see how it goes but adding every 24 hours is going to be what I'm going to do.  All I'm doing is that making sure the tap water is at room temperature and living in a glass for a few hours.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: ran doner on November 13, 2013, 08:34:58 pm
I'll be trying my first go at sourdough bread tomorrow. The starter is a couple of weeks old and based on Paul Hollywood orangic apple method.

My previous attempts have been with pineapple juice which all ended in disaster but this one could be the one !
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on November 13, 2013, 09:32:50 pm
Fingers crossed for you!! I like the taste of sourdough, whereas my wife does not, so more for me! Result!!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on December 23, 2013, 05:17:41 pm
Anyone made hazelnut bread?

Mrs P, the thing is with adding nuts to dough is that it can be a little painful when kneading if done by hand so take care when doing so. I finely crush half the amount of nuts I am using (to give the dough the flavour) and keep the other half in big chunks (for the texture). For hazelnuts I'd toast the nuts first, gives a lovely flavour.
An advantage to using the soda bread recipe above is that, as no kneading is required, the problem doesn't exist in that type of loaf. I'd use a bit of honey aswell.
I've made both sorts of loaf and can recommend both.

Most important thing is ....... let us know how you get on       :thumbsup: 

So, yesterday I made a wholemeal loaf and I chucked in some toasted hazelnuts after I'd knocked it back. Tastes OK :P
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Chris N on January 04, 2014, 08:57:07 pm
Nothing fancy, just basic white bread:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7410/11759415704_0825c7cd8f_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26008756@N08/11759415704/)

No photos of the pizzas I made at the same time though, it got eaten too quickly. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: T42 on January 04, 2014, 09:16:44 pm
Muesli bread, up close:

(http://www.pbase.com/johnewing/image/130690327.jpg) (http://www.pbase.com/johnewing/image/130690327)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on January 07, 2014, 03:36:47 pm
That's gross! Could be used in one of those quizzes which has everyday things taken at strange angles or up close! Can anyone else see the little chicken on the left? It's wearing a hat.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: delthebike on January 11, 2014, 02:56:09 pm
Tomato bread just out of the oven.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5e12MprVzD8/UtFbNeHWA3I/AAAAAAAAIF4/VFKEW5y0etQ/s640/p1110026.jpg)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on January 11, 2014, 08:59:18 pm
Looks great. Sun dried tomatoes?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: delthebike on January 12, 2014, 01:51:52 pm
Looks great. Sun dried tomatoes?
Half a tube of puréed toms! 
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on January 18, 2014, 09:53:41 am
Bet it tasted great! My latest was a fig and date wholemeal loaf, which oddly enough tasted great with marmalade. Sorry no pics.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: longers on February 01, 2014, 08:36:20 am
This is my best ever loaf. (not that many to choose from, yet)

(http://i59.tinypic.com/2mgtp1.jpg)

Thankyou to Daniel Stevens who wrote the River Cottage bread making book which has made the whole process easily understandable.

Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on March 27, 2014, 04:44:19 pm
I made a milk loaf recently and instead of milk used whey (I had some from making curd cheese, which is another story). It was delicious, made the taste quite acidic, a bit like a sourdough.
Also made some scones using whey in place of milk and they were equally delicious.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on May 09, 2014, 08:59:53 pm
Bought some "oak smoked stoneground" flour from Booths. It was about £2-50 for a kg bag, but I don't mind paying for decent flour (after all I paid that for a cup of crap coffee today). It makes a delicious loaf, I just made a basic one to test the taste and would think that the addition of other things such as nuts or dates would be fantastic. Well worth trying it, if there's a Booths near you.
Actually, have just checked and it's a 1.5 kg bag. Result.

Have looked again at the bag, it's from the Bacheldre watermill in Powys. There is a web-site which lists several stockists in many parts of the country. Can even be bought via Amazon.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on July 06, 2014, 09:24:49 pm
Been experimenting with using cornmeal in place of some flour in my loaves. So far, very impressed, you can tell there's something different in the loaf. I soak the cornmeal overnight with a bit of treacle and water and then make the loaf as normal.

I've also had some more goes with spelt flour, having not been impressed previously. Using it together with rye flour is tricky, but I've had good results with starting a bit of the mix off and letting it ferment overnight and then adding more flour and yeast and making as per normal,  I think this technique is called a sponge method. Again, it makes a tasty loaf with a slightly nutty taste (although I invariably use a load of seeds aswell).
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on July 07, 2014, 03:22:03 am
Keep thinking I should try and use chappati flour, or at least a mix of it to make bread.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on July 07, 2014, 10:15:47 am
What is chapatti flour? I thought to make chapattis you used wholemeal, or is it some other type of flour used in Asian cooking? I regularly shop in Asian stores and I know they seem to have many different types of flour. I've used gram flour which makes a delicious snack when hot, but the taste isn't half as good when cold.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on July 07, 2014, 10:26:32 am
Er £4 for 10kg in tesco...maybe £3 http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=271657355

Supposed to be alot of things but might buy a bag....
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pickled Onion on July 10, 2014, 01:07:26 pm
What is chapatti flour? I thought to make chapattis you used wholemeal, or is it some other type of flour used in Asian cooking? I regularly shop in Asian stores and I know they seem to have many different types of flour. I've used gram flour which makes a delicious snack when hot, but the taste isn't half as good when cold.

Chapati flour is made from durum wheat which is high protein, which is desirable for flat breads. High protein implies high gluten, but the gluten is not as available as other wheat flours, so it is reasonable for baking leavened bread but will not rise as well as standard strong bread flour.

Gram flour is ground chick peas so is not meant for baking at all. It's used for the stick things (sev) in bombay mix which are easy to make if you have a potato ricer. With a bit of experimentation it can also make a passable savoury custard for vegan quiche.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on July 10, 2014, 08:05:51 pm
 Thanks pickled onion, I haven't come across chapatti flour.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pickled Onion on July 12, 2014, 10:18:31 am
I used to use it a lot as it makes perfect naan bread - it never occurred to me to use for normal bread, but given the price as above I think I'll give it a go!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: levitator on July 12, 2014, 10:59:34 pm
Lots of mentions up this thread of sourdough, something I've been trying over the past few months.  Very mixed results: the first attempt was overbaked and burnt.  Second batch came out fine.  Then I - errr - lost my starter culture. no need to go into details but accidents WILL happen  :(

OK, made another starter, same flour (organic rye).  Fizzed up much more vigourously than the first batch, but all the loaves made from it have been poorly risen with a big 'cavity' inside.  Threw that starter away, started yet another one.  Same result.  Thrown away starter once again.

I think I need to look around a bit for better recipes.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: levitator on July 12, 2014, 11:01:47 pm
Incidentally, I'm not using a bread machine (haven't got one).  We have four breadmakers.  My left hand, my right hand, my wife's left hand, my wife's right hand.  Isn't that enough?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on July 12, 2014, 11:33:31 pm
I had the cavity issue as well. I faffed about with different recipes before going back to the original but trying different techniques.
I eventually had success with the folding envelope technique described here http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/apr/14/make-your-own-sourdough
Then I put it in a linen lined banneton to rise, but not for too long or you get the big pocket at the top. I also found that I had to cover the dough with a damp cloth because if I put the banneton in a plastic bag the dough sticks to the linen when I turn it out of the banneton.

There is a lot of black magic spoken about sourdough, I got offered countless 'foolproof' recipes but I reckon it's a bit like cycling shorts - trial and error til you find what works for you.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on July 13, 2014, 04:41:00 pm
Did you use yoghurt or fruit in the starter or just flour and water?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: levitator on July 13, 2014, 06:26:19 pm
Did you use yoghurt or fruit in the starter or just flour and water?
No, just flour and water.  OK time to look up this yoghurt, fruit idea, never heard of that one.  What I think happened with my second and third batchs, the stuff fizzed up too early and lost its potency before I got around to making the bread, I need to slow it down somehow (send it up the Tourmalet!).
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on July 13, 2014, 07:45:25 pm
Did you use yoghurt or fruit in the starter or just flour and water?
No, just flour and water.  OK time to look up this yoghurt, fruit idea, never heard of that one.  What I think happened with my second and third batchs, the stuff fizzed up too early and lost its potency before I got around to making the bread, I need to slow it down somehow (send it up the Tourmalet!).
Make the dough before the starter collapses or put it in the fridge to retard it a bit.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on July 14, 2014, 02:51:09 pm
I have a jar in the fridge. Whenever I want to make a sourdough I take it out 24 hours before I want to start to make the loaf, refresh it (add flour and water and stir) leave it and use half the following day in the loaf. The remainder I put back in the fridge. Sourdough definitely has a different taste, not to everyone's liking (my wife dislikes it) but I love it. It isn't a quick loaf to make though as I find the longer the rising and proving the better the taste.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on September 17, 2014, 08:12:44 am
Ah ha, made another starter from a wholemeal flour, water and bits of rhubarb.

Am making three different loaves today, a rye, a spelt and a normal bread flour dough.  Having added 75g of water and 50 grams of white bread flour roughly I added some 50g of starter to each new pot, then left for 8 or so hours.  Then feeding the starter with 50 grams of flour and 75 grams of water.  This is done as the starter still contains bits of rhubarb and is very active.  The two new yeast will be added complete in to the dough and when mixed I will put both the dough's in to the fridge till the dough's have doubled in size. 

Then knocking the dough back for a second prove at room temperature in the tin that the bread will be baked in.  Lets see what happens.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on September 17, 2014, 11:51:00 pm
Blog post -----gattopardo calling orson come in orson.....gattoaprdo calling orson come in or....

Well the best laid plans of mice and sourdough.  After running around this morning to make sure that I have spelt and rye flour.  Finally I started making the breads, firstly I added the starter to a little water to make up the water content for the rye bread and then added the the rye flour and the same amount of bread flour. then a little salt.  This is a recipe I had misread and didn't see bread flour being added until after along list of differing seeds that I wasn't adding.  Small screen and scim reading... Opps so the first bit was just starter a bit of water and judt rye and salt.  The mix was very wet hence checking and noticing the error.  So once noticed I added the bread flour and then did the process described.  Folding the mix for a few minutes leaving the mix to stand for 15 mins then a couple of minutes folding doing that three times.  Then stuck the whole lot, bowl covered in tin foil, in fridge for the first prove of at least 12+ hours. 

The second experiment was a spelt was once again the starter that was up and active then I added a bit of water to make it up to the required level then, added the spelt flour and salt straight and then folded the mix again doing the few minutes then left for 15 minutes then did some folding again then a third go.  I then left the dough that was quite sticky then left that for a bit on top of the fridge, where the starter lives, but when  came back to it the bread was dry.  Handled the dough with wet hands and then stuck the dough in a jane asher poundland non stick loaf pan.  How much was it do I hear you shout  ;D Cutting the top and stuck the lot in the fridge with a damp tea towel on top of the pan making sure that it doesn't touch the top of the mix.

Then I saw I had some left over fed starter and thought I'add some more water, some atta flour and salt, to see what would happen.  Have used the couple of minutes folding technique then leaving it to sit for 15 minutes three times.  Then stuck the whole lot in to the fridge with a covered over damp tea towel.

Looking back I should have done just one, but got a little fixated and logic went out the window.  Sort think  I had to do it to prove something to myself or the world.  No idea what it was and why, cos that's a hell of alot of bread.  I made sure I kept the flour water salt ratios correct for each bread from the recipes I found. 

The differences from my usual mix was adding the starter to the water and kneading and not folding.  I think keeping the dough in the fridge for at 24 - 36 hours should increase the taste so they say.  So am going to go for either time or till the dough has doubled.  But unsure what will happen as the dough seems to have gained a dry skin.

Will report once more....Nanu nanu or have I created three mixes of shazbat.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on September 18, 2014, 06:51:30 pm
Interesting write up Gatto, would like to hear how you get on in particular the taste. I find spelt does need a much longer prove to bring out the taste, when I first tried spelt I was a bit underwhelmed, but the longer prove makes it much better.
On a different note I see Aldi have two types of flour as one of their specials and both look like they are worth a go. I'll certainly be giving them a whirl.
Edit.   The flours are specials this Sunday (21/9)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pancho on September 19, 2014, 08:32:40 pm
My bread maker died a while ago. It's had a tough working life of over a decade of feeding the family.

Rather than buy a new one, I've been doing it the primitive way - by hand. Just googled for an "easy bread recipe" and followed it. No pictures, I'm afraid as the loaves tend to get wolfed PDQ. But it's good stuff - very good. And not too much hassle provided I get cracking as soon as I get home from work (all that rising and proving takes forever and I like to be in bed early).
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on September 20, 2014, 09:51:40 pm
I've never had a bread maker, but I love making it by hand, the kneading I find therapeutic and I can think of loads of other things whilst doing it. It does take a little forward planning but things like proving can be delayed by putting in the fridge overnight. I get a kick every time I look at the risen dough.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on September 21, 2014, 06:02:26 pm
Finally got back to the bread, have been a bit busy ;)

The first bread I pulled out of the fridge, there was a bit of cold burn from a bit that wasn't covered with tinfoil.  Left the bread out for a few hours to warm up and to prove some more.  Just now knocked the bread back with wet hands and split the dough in to two balls one in to a silicone tray while the other I placed in to a pyrex bowl lid.

Does any one have any hints and tips to use an unglazed ceramic/clay loaf pan.  Reading on the net I am a bit lost.  Do I coat the inside with oil and heat the pan to season the insdie of the pan.  Thanks for the advice.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on September 21, 2014, 11:40:24 pm
Oven up to temperature and the bread has gone in...Should have baked one from cold oven to temp and then the other when the oven was at temp.

Photos to be added once done
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Kim on September 22, 2014, 07:22:56 pm
In SCIENCE news, it turns out that the combustible gas sensor[1] that I've installed in our kitchen[2] doubles as a freshly-baked bread detector.  I assume it's responding to the ethanol vapour from the yeast (it exhibits a similar response if you waft a bottle of meths or a freshly baked roll near the sensor).


[1] Catalyst-coated wire in a Wheatstone bridge type thing, so not particularly discriminate where hydrocarbons are concerned.
[2] Useful safety accessory for the hard-of-smelling person[3] who rightly considers electric hobs to be a work of Stan.
[3] Barakta, not I.  My nose is over-sensitive.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on September 22, 2014, 10:52:46 pm
The loaf was a rye and bread flour mixed.  The first knock back revealed an airy dough, the I folded a few times.  The seperated into two different rolls to create two different loaves.  Never know when the bread is ready after the second prove and have to be careful not to knock the dough so there is a loss of the rise.

The bread came out cooked but quite dense, nice flavour and texture but dense.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on September 23, 2014, 06:55:09 pm
Rye flour does tend to make a very dense loaf, hence mixing with other flour. I do like heavy bread but I know many don't.
Re the knocking back stage, I put the dough in whatever I'm going to bake it in and so it is easy to avoid pushing it back by mistake. If not using a loaf tin I just leave it on a baking tray.

I looked at the Aldi flour I mentioned above and third on the list of ingredients is calcium carbonate. Chalk!! What's that all about? Reinforces my belief that it's worth buying decent flour and spending a little extra.

Gatto - I've only used a flower pot for baking, I oiled it and put in the oven to season, but the second loaf I baked cracked it and I've not tried another since. The loaves were ok though and it was only a cheap pot so a better quality one might be better.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on September 23, 2014, 07:17:48 pm
This is my ceramic loaf tray http://www.lakeland.co.uk/16075/Ceramic-2lb-Loaf-Pan

Suspect that I made the mistake of letting the bread spread in a larger pan instead of asmaller pan that rises upwards.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: sojournermike on September 26, 2014, 12:07:33 am
Excellent, a bread thread.

I've just received the second of two flour parcels and am now happy to have a cupboard full of c40kg of various flours from Shipton and Stoates mills and another 15kg sack of white on the floor nearby:) The new sourdough starter should be in early working order by Saturday and a weekend of happy smells is beckoning.

Last weekend included bakes of white, extra course wholemeal and my every day mixed grain whitish bread. The downside is I seem to bake more than we eat, and then I finish it up...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pancho on September 28, 2014, 06:32:26 pm
Today I made yet another delicious loaf. However, I'm receiving complaints from the household (Mrs P) about the shape. I do try to shape the dough into sort of rugby ball format - but I always end up with, admittedly well risen and tasty, a cowpat shaped object.

So how do I make something that looks not totally unlike a loaf? Preferably without buying special tins.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: sojournermike on September 28, 2014, 08:06:36 pm
Today I made yet another delicious loaf. However, I'm receiving complaints from the household (Mrs P) about the shape. I do try to shape the dough into sort of rugby ball format - but I always end up with, admittedly well risen and tasty, a cowpat shaped object.

So how do I make something that looks not totally unlike a loaf? Preferably without buying special tins.


You need tins for tin loaves and, ideally a banneton, for slack dough shaped loves.

You might try baking in a plant pot or letting the loaves prove - well floured with rye -  in a suitable dish.

New sourdough starter first bake is just out of the oven.

Mike
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on September 29, 2014, 02:56:38 am
Have attacked the bread that I had left in the fridge for over a week!  The bread had a bit of a hard skin.  But I mixed up once again, I left the resulting mix above the fridge to warm and grow for a few hours.  Then I will knock back and bake it in the evening.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: rafletcher on September 30, 2014, 09:21:57 am
Not strictly bread, but dough related. Last weekend I used a new (to me) method (2-day) for making pizza bases. The pizzas were then dry fried then grilled.  Base was that lovely chewy texture that it should be. Result.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pancho on September 30, 2014, 09:54:08 am
Tonight I shall try plaits.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pancho on September 30, 2014, 10:30:43 pm
Worked well. Just made normal bread dough but plaited it before the second prove. Didn't bother with egg glazing or scattering poppy seeds. Much closer to a loaf shape than a cow pat shape.

Just need to get better at doing the plaits in bread. It's a bit agricultural - or should that be artisnal. I've only done horses before.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on October 01, 2014, 06:32:30 pm
Bread horses?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on October 02, 2014, 10:00:30 am
I made brioche last night. Had to tweak the recipe a bit and it didn't rise much but apart from that it tastes quite genuine (ie boring).
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on October 02, 2014, 11:52:03 am
Ahh brioche. 5 eggs and 250g of butter in each loaf!! I remember making it for the first time, I was sure I had misread the recipe and then I was convinced the recipe was wrong, I couldn't believe there would be so much fat (not to mention the sugar) in it.
Not sure why yours didn't rise much, mine always does a lot. Do you chill overnight before forming into balls or a plait and then leave for a second rise? I find brioche dough is very good for making interesting shaped loaves using this method, I presume the butter responds well to the bit of chilling.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on October 02, 2014, 11:59:19 am
No, I should have left it to rise more.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on October 02, 2014, 04:11:29 pm
In Lisbon last week I discovered the joy that is Pao de Deus, a Portuguese speciality bread. Funny, cos I'm not normally a huge fan of coconut, but I think I like them because they're not too sweet.

I've found a recipe online and I think I'm going to have a go at making it myself...
http://portuguesebreads.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/pao-de-deus_1.html
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on November 18, 2014, 04:44:49 pm
Hmm, not much baking going on, or is it peeps are too busy kneading to post?

I've been using cornmeal (polenta to some) mixed with flour for my loaves. It makes for a tasty loaf and you can alter texture by using coarse or fine cornmeal. I prefer coarse  :o, my wife prefers fine. It's dead cheap as well. Needs a long prove which suits me as I tend to leave overnight anyway.

Made some Chelsea buns recently which were ok, but the dough was a bit heavy. I like baking where you roll up the dough with a filling in the middle and then cut or plait or whatever and then bake. 
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on November 22, 2014, 09:26:31 am
Not strictly bread, but dough related. Last weekend I used a new (to me) method (2-day) for making pizza bases. The pizzas were then dry fried then grilled.  Base was that lovely chewy texture that it should be. Result.

How did I miss this, which of the methods did you use?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on December 11, 2014, 12:01:34 pm
Time for a quiz. Hands up if you can guess who de-tinned the loaves and put them back in the oven for a couple of minutes then went on a conference call for 45 minutes? Without removing said loaves first.

Baked Brick, anyone?

 :facepalm:

I SHALL have at least two slices out of this for my lunch. I will report back

Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on December 12, 2014, 09:16:25 am
Time for a quiz. Hands up if you can guess who de-tinned the loaves and put them back in the oven for a couple of minutes then went on a conference call for 45 minutes? Without removing said loaves first.

Baked Brick, anyone?

 :facepalm:

I SHALL have at least two slices out of this for my lunch. I will report back

Crusty. Very crusty.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: sojournermike on March 02, 2015, 01:07:01 pm
back on the sourdough trail at the moment. The starter is good and have made some brad that I've been enjoying. Two stage process, using a wet leavan followed by the main dough at about 75% hydration. Basic bread is 80% white and 20% wholemeal. Variation include white with a bit of yeast as well as natural leavan for kids and spelt based nearly whole meal sourdough.

doesn't fit with low carb lifestyle though.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: sojournermike on March 09, 2015, 12:35:31 am
Earlier
(https://photosojourner.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/l1000030.jpg)


Later
(https://photosojourner.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/l1000037-2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on March 09, 2015, 07:15:11 am
Later still

(http://www.fairyist.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/crumbs.jpg)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Eccentrica Gallumbits on March 14, 2015, 07:38:20 pm
I've just started buying the occasional loaf from The Wee Boulangerie in Edinburgh. My favourite so far is the 8 grain rye sourdough, but they do a great fougasse too.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on March 16, 2015, 05:55:48 pm
Bread's the one thing (even above CAIK) that's stopping me from going low-carb; I tend to do a low-knead sourdough loosely based on Dan Lepard's approach (wet dough, long rise with minimal handling). Having finally torn down the mouldering shed in the back garden, I am giving SERIOUS THORT to asking the landlord whether I can build a bread oven in the back garden this summer; if I get the OK I'll have to start scrounging freecycle for bricks and start looking for local clay pits...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on March 17, 2015, 08:29:32 am
A friend of mine has really got into the bread thing over the last couple of years. She has got to the stage of buying a small industrial mixer and bread oven. It's not a business but more like a hobby that she offsets the costs of by selling a small amount of bread. She runs a bread club and every Friday she delivers a random loaf to the members in and around our village. Its lovely and our Friday treat, the sourdough in particular is brilliant.
She made it onto The One Show a few months ago when Jay Raynor ran a little competition about bread making.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: sojournermike on March 17, 2015, 05:11:19 pm
I bake at least once each week - for me also the main low carb obstacle! Current production is a whitish (c.25% wholemeal or spelt) mixed leaven bread and a full sourdough 50/50 white/wholemeal spelt. BOth are fairly high hydration doughs, with only a limited amount of handling

Mike
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on April 03, 2015, 01:49:24 am
Have just started this year's batch of hot cross buns - following this recipe, which is now my standard one: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/mar/13/spiced-stout-buns-dan-lepard
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on April 12, 2015, 03:02:46 pm
I made a loaf using some mashed potato. Started off a bloomer as normal and then folded in about half as much again mashed potato. Added a little tarragon and I must say it's delicious. Even my son says so and he never eats anything I bake.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on July 17, 2015, 11:38:27 am
And another success - crumpets. Massive great ones, full of holes to soak up loads of melted butter. Have had eggs Benedict for breakfast the last two days, homemade hollandaise sauce, delicious. Will get round to posting pictures.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tail End Charlie on August 16, 2015, 07:20:41 pm
I've been experimenting with adding various vegetables to my dough. I've tried beetroot, carrot, parsnip and potato in separate loaves. The carrot and beetroot were raw and the other two I cooked. You have to watch the sloppiness of the dough, but they have all been very tasty. I think the parsnip one would do very well with added cheese, not sure about the others.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on August 28, 2015, 03:08:26 pm
I has a breadmaker !!! My wife came back from her mothers yesterday with an unwanted second hand one that someone had given to the Mil who thought I might like it. She's not wrong.
Made a simple white loaf last night. Yeast and flower six months out of date but it still rose really well and the texture was good. Slightly too salty, will add less next time. I can see that this is going to be fun.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on September 20, 2015, 09:41:09 pm
Last night I tried a Spelt & Rye loaf made with buttermilk as liquid, turned out v tasty, not sure why it cracked this way, possibly because I should have waited longer before baking.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xGl5G6_1qno/Vf8ZCXLM5FI/AAAAAAAAy9o/M2e8ZAVkUOw/s640-Ic42/upload_-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: sojournermike on September 21, 2015, 02:28:59 pm
Last night I tried a Spelt & Rye loaf made with buttermilk as liquid, turned out v tasty, not sure why it cracked this way, possibly because I should have waited longer before baking.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xGl5G6_1qno/Vf8ZCXLM5FI/AAAAAAAAy9o/M2e8ZAVkUOw/s640-Ic42/upload_-1.jpg)

I did spelt and rye (60:40) this weekend too. I think the cracking is, in part, because the gluten in both is 'lower quality' than that in modern wheat. It changes the texture, but the taste is great.

Mike
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on September 24, 2015, 12:32:40 pm
First bread machine failure today. Organic local strong white flour and it didn't rise as much as it should and was soggy in the middle :(
Made the same loaf yesterday and it was fine. The only difference was switching to Hovis fast action yeast instead of Sainsbury's and actual weighing out 5g of yeast rather than chucking in the whole 7g sachet. Trying again now with a whole sachet of Hovis yeast. We will see if that's better in a couple of hours.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hatler on September 25, 2015, 09:29:19 am
I reckon the quantity of yeast is critical and the temperature of the room seems to affect things as well. Warmer room - slightly (and really only slightly) less yeast.

I use a carefully levelled teaspoon measure as my datum.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on September 25, 2015, 09:47:03 am
Second loaf was a bit better than the first but not as good as usual. I will try using the Sainsbury's yeast again to see if that's better. Run out of flour now though so will have to wait until I can get some more on Saturday.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on October 01, 2015, 08:21:19 am
Switches to Doves Farm quick yeast on a recommendation from a friend who bakes a lot of bread and all is well with the world again.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on October 10, 2015, 06:42:16 pm
Much better this time,

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VIGgnJOfKEI/VhlAEFzXEkI/AAAAAAAAy_M/Umi7HGl1Ct8/s640-Ic42/upload_-1.jpg)

A little more fluid and more gentle proving.

(The one on the back is not the same, that was lunch - 50% Rye/Spelt, 50% White, added walnuts)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on November 13, 2015, 07:22:56 pm
Having received my handed-down Kenwood Chef back from the workshop with a new juiced up motor and go-faster stripes, I am going to utilise it to try making wet dough breads. First experiment will be ciabatta.

Here is the biga making itself ready....
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/769/22598459069_5fb686af78_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/AqX1yD)One biga, preparing for action tomorrow.... (https://flic.kr/p/AqX1yD) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: DDCyclist on November 13, 2015, 07:51:31 pm
I think I noticed at least one mention of a 'bread maker being the best gadget they ever bought for the kitchen' while I was scanning through the thread.

Couldn't agree more. We got one about a year ago and have not bought industrial, supermarket stuff since. Mrs Cyclist even eats the crusts - which she wouldn't touch before. We prefer wholemeal (stone-ground locally) for our toast every morning. I usually make a loaf every other day. We usually have a bag of ready-mix something-or-other in the cupboards in case we fancy something a little different for the weekends. I made stollen last Christmas (and burnt it, but it was still delicious) and will be making it again this year.

An interesting point is that we used to throw a lot of mouldy supermarket stuff away. It's very rare we throw any home-made away. Often, if we know we're going to have spare or we're going away for a few days. we just turn it into breadcrumbs for fishcakes etc.

The only down-side is I have to cut it for the toaster, and Mrs Cyclist's sandwiches, every morning. If I left it to her it'd be like a scene from Zorro. Then again, if she left the ironing to me she'd be going to work looking like an extra from The Towering Inferno.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hatler on November 13, 2015, 09:23:05 pm
We are lost without our bread maker. It went back to John Lewis on Monday under warranty and I was expecting a straight swap, instead they are repairing it. We're having to buy shop bread. Dearie me. Far from ideal.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on November 14, 2015, 01:01:12 pm
I'm quite pleased with these, hope they are as good inside....
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/707/22589656408_51e94c0bff_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/AqaTQC)Ciabatta! (https://flic.kr/p/AqaTQC) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: lou boutin on November 14, 2015, 02:46:53 pm
They look very yum MrsP
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on November 15, 2015, 03:57:49 pm
They turned out nicely, though they tasted a bit 'white' for me, despite having stuck a bit of unrefreshed rye/wholemeal starter in there.
Next time I've got a bit more time I might try Andrew Whiteley's sourdough/country bread version.

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5758/23019595381_7b436ae393_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/B5arHx)Seems ciabatta-esque (https://flic.kr/p/B5arHx) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Dibdib on January 29, 2016, 10:15:15 pm
First attempt at a brown loaf this evening, after a few partially-successful attempts at soda bread. I should have taken some pictures before it went in the oven, but oh well. Fingers crossed it's edible!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Dibdib on January 30, 2016, 11:11:02 am
So here's the result. It's not much but I'm pretty chuffed!

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23853117/YACF/20160130%20Bread.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on January 30, 2016, 05:14:20 pm
So here's the result. It's not much but I'm pretty chuffed!

(https://photos-4.dropbox.com/t/2/AABv8hIjHeolOUKCc7pVX6GS6DmTYwq4SrqJGG_k1fJLog/12/23853117/jpeg/32x32/3/1454169600/0/2/20160130%20Bread.jpeg/EJaM-REYhjAgAigC/bzlV-r3rjTXNIr2uUIcSzjxngPEL9SQf9rFlv4plYLg?size_mode=3&size=1024x768)

Error 410..... you've eaten it  ;D
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Dibdib on January 30, 2016, 05:20:40 pm
Error 410..... you've eaten it  ;D

Thanks, fixed. Worked on my iPad, strangely. Stupid Dropbox software giving me different style URLs.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on February 05, 2016, 02:06:41 pm
I've tried making the last couple of loaves without sugar and salt, seeing if the yeast has enough to feed on just in the flour (and a glob of oil, it must use that to an extent). It's risen as well as ever but tastes somehow bland. Seems the sugar – it seems to be that more than the salt – contributes more flavour than I'd ever imagined.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on February 05, 2016, 02:17:47 pm
It's not the sugar that gives it flavour - it's the salt!

I never use sugar in normal bread, it makes no difference at all. No salt however will turn into a tasteless loaf.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on February 05, 2016, 04:06:19 pm
That would make sense, and is what I would have thought, but experimentation shows that using salt without sugar still results in a bland loaf.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on February 06, 2016, 06:53:47 am
Curious.I've never found that, at least not for standard bread, maybe it's a proportion thing? I normally bake 1.5Kg of wholemeal flour at a time (not always) and certainly 1 tsp sugar makes no difference, being wholemeal it is anything but bland.

Baking smaller quantity loaves as I often do, mixing up all sorts of flours and additions (nuts etc) again never seems to lack flavour and compare very well to commercial product from speciality bakers, although I rarely bake a plain white loaf. The nearest I get is white rolls occasionally, which mostly end up as poppy seed knots.

What I do use on occasion for these loaves (loves?) is added malt or molasses or both, which I recommend to the house and are available in jars.

Coming back to your original point, yeast doesn't need added sugar (or oil) to work, ultimately the flavour of the loaf needs to be to your taste, there's not going to be One True Way.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on February 07, 2016, 11:24:54 am
Last night I set the breadmaker off to make a wholemeal loaf. I didn't add sugar. I did put a little extra yeast in. It has risen beautifully - more than I normally expect a loaf made to that recipe to do! I shall have some in a moment with my home-made marmalade.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on February 07, 2016, 07:48:54 pm
Sugar just speeds up the initial yeast ferment - unless you're trying to activate dried (not instant) yeast it's not needed (and even with dried you can just whisk in some flour). Salt improves flavour and IIRC also improves gluten formation, but retards yeast action. Fats slow staling and improve moisture retention, but again retard yeast action (at least when used in large quantities for enriched doughs).

For regular bread I tend to use about 1-1.5% of salt as a baker's percentage (i.e. of the weight of flour), and 1% yeast. A glug of oil or knob of butter for fat, and hydration at about 55-60%.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on February 07, 2016, 09:23:53 pm
Sugar just speeds up the initial yeast ferment - unless you're trying to activate dried (not instant) yeast it's not needed (and even with dried you can just whisk in some flour).

....or, not. Just not needed, honest.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on February 07, 2016, 09:31:48 pm
Sugar just speeds up the initial yeast ferment - unless you're trying to activate dried (not instant) yeast it's not needed (and even with dried you can just whisk in some flour).

....or, not. Just not needed, honest.

Indeed, I just bung it all together and knead. No salt, no sugar. The only thing I add besides oil is vitamin c for the wholemeal flour.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on February 20, 2016, 06:23:09 pm
The experiments with buttermilk continue

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RhYmSnhf-qc/Xp7BnbJZSOI/AAAAAAADOa0/QUY-PH-eAlkFq7ka9P8Zac459ZC7I9NYQCPcBGAsYHg/s1600/IMG_20160220_144546.jpg)

Left hand one is 40-rye, 40-spelt, 10-white and hasn't cracked. Right hand is pure rye and has. Both kneaded more, which appears to help. Rye might need more liquid.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pickled Onion on March 05, 2016, 07:30:18 am
Does anyone have a decent recipe for vegan hot cross buns?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on March 05, 2016, 10:56:25 am
Am thinking I might get out the Chef tomorrow and try this challah recipe, or a brioche.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/mar/05/no-knead-bread-focaccia-challah-risen-bread-recipes-yotam-ottolenghi
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pancho on March 05, 2016, 11:24:41 am
I've just switched to making wholemeal bread our mainstay (rather than white). All the recipes I've seen recommend adding vitamin C to help avoid housebrick style loaves. Am I actually supposed to crush up an orange tablet? Or is there some special bread-vitamin C? I've been making do with a squeeze of lemon juice. It appears to work. OK, the bread isn't the fluffy stuff I've been making previously but, then, wholemeal is always a bit heavier I think.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pickled Onion on March 05, 2016, 11:34:19 am
You can buy ascorbic acid powder in Boots, you have to ask for it. I tried it but never really noticed the difference. Home made wholemeal is supposed to be chewy, or you can do half-and-half for a lighter loaf.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on March 05, 2016, 12:04:25 pm
Holland and Barrett sell jars of vit c powder too.
I've never tried making it without, I always put it in because SCIENCE.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: SteveC on March 05, 2016, 01:35:59 pm
Wholemeal is always going to be heavier than white.
Adding vitamin C does make a difference. Many commercial bakeries do so.
I found that the only way to make my 100% wholemeal edible is to use the sponge method.
Add half the flour to all the water, the yeast and the sugar (if you use sugar). Allow to bubble away for at least 45 minutes but can be nearly as long as you want.
Then add the rest of the flour, knead and treat as usual.

I got the recipe from the Tassajara Bread Book many years ago and it has been my standard method for making bread of any sort since then.

(Tassajara was a Californian Zen Buddhist Monastery back in the 60s & 70s (may still exist I suppose) and the book reads like it came from a Californian Zen Buddhist Monastery in the 70s, but the recipes do work.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on March 05, 2016, 02:59:13 pm
Childcare duties mean most of my manual bread-making is confined to the weekend, so I've been experimenting with ways to get more flavour from the breadmaker. I've been pleasantly surprised that the no-knead bread dough works pretty well. Normally the recipe calls for an overnight sponge and then a bake in a preheated cast-iron casserole at very high oven temperatures, but my breadmaker produces a decent rise, if not the great crust of the original method. I mix up the sponge in the machine's pan at lunchtime then turn it off. Before I go to bed I set it to run its normal programme on the delay timer, and when I wake up I've got fresh bread for breakfast and packed lunches.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Pickled Onion on March 08, 2016, 07:01:42 am
Does anyone have a decent recipe for vegan hot cross buns?

Found one.

(http://handsonit.co.uk/images/photos/2016/HCB.JPG)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on March 08, 2016, 08:05:22 am
http://southendnewsnetwork.com/news/anger-as-southend-bakery-launches-hot-cross-buns-without-offensive-cross/
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on March 11, 2016, 09:51:47 am
http://southendnewsnetwork.com/news/anger-as-southend-bakery-launches-hot-cross-buns-without-offensive-cross/
;D Local news at its best.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on March 24, 2016, 09:05:38 am
Speaking of hot cross buns, I'm going to start making these tonight - has been my standard recipe for the past few years: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/mar/13/spiced-stout-buns-dan-lepard
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Woofage on April 11, 2016, 10:24:43 pm
Anyone use dried (as opposed to quick) yeast in their bread maker? I've used dried yeast on and off for hand baking but since I bought another bread maker recently I thought I would try it as an experiment. Basically, it works fine. So fine in fact that the loaf from a 2 hour rapid bake (plus the 15 minutes or so to activate the yeast) is just as good as one from the full 4 hour cycle.

Apologies if  has been mentioned before but I didn't read through all 9 pages and a search didn't bring anything up.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hatler on April 11, 2016, 10:30:37 pm
I use Tesco's Fast Action Dried Yeast (http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=259921596) in our breadmaker and it works a treat.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Woofage on April 11, 2016, 10:48:33 pm
I use Tesco's Fast Action Dried Yeast (http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=259921596) in our breadmaker and it works a treat.

That's what I would term quick - the type you can put directly into the mix (whether machine or hand job). "Dried yeast" has to be activated first in a warm sugar solution that becomes part of the liquid used in the recipe. I wouldn't normally put sugar in my bread recipes but this is an easy method.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hatler on April 11, 2016, 10:59:16 pm
Ah. Got it. Given that it has both the words 'dry' and 'quick' in its name, I wasn't sure which it was.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on April 12, 2016, 09:01:48 am
I've switched to Dove Farm quick yeast for my bread maker on the recommendation of a friend who does a lot of baking (has a proper industrial bread oven and mixer).

https://www.dovesfarm.co.uk/flour-and-ingredients/quick-yeast-1x125g/

Its nominally the same as supermarket own brand or Hovis quick yeast but I get much more reliable results with it.
You can buy it on-line or I think I got my last packet from Salisbury,
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Woofage on April 12, 2016, 09:56:37 am
That's the stuff I normally use too. It's much more convenient and economical than those noddy sachets of quick yeast. My current packet is coming to an end and I have another brand this time (shop didn't have DF) so I'll report back with results.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on April 12, 2016, 10:59:15 am
I would have thought you'd have no problems with dried yeast so long as it was activated before putting in the machine. I used dried instead of fast when making an overnight sponge, which works fine without activation - just stir it in.

I also learned last night that a cast iron casserole lid coming out of a 250°C oven (having baked bread in it) is hot enough to set fire to a cloth oven glove if you leave it perched on top of said lid - albeit slowly enough that you only notice once you've left the room and the smoke alarm goes off... My kitchen now smells of burnt plastic, and I need to scrub melted oven glove off the casserole lid  :sick: :hand: :facepalm:
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Woofage on April 12, 2016, 12:51:18 pm
I would have thought you'd have no problems with dried yeast so long as it was activated before putting in the machine.

What surprised me though was how well it worked. Same quality of loaf that I'd get from a 4 hour cycle but in a little over 2 hours (the normal 2 hour loaf with quick/instant yeast is nice, but a little too dense).
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: rafletcher on April 26, 2016, 03:47:56 pm
Well I've been trying the Ciabatta recioe that Mrs P uses. Fisrt try was ok, but I thought the dough a little dry. Next time I added a bit more water and liked the results.  This time I have to use a different flour (Doves Farm strong white, as opposed to Allinsons very strong white). The result was somewhat more wet than I intended.... so much so that I poured it straight onto the baking tray.

(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/rafletcher/IMG_1269.jpg) (http://s86.photobucket.com/user/rafletcher/media/IMG_1269.jpg.html)

Still it cooked ok

(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/rafletcher/IMG_1271.jpg) (http://s86.photobucket.com/user/rafletcher/media/IMG_1271.jpg.html)

And wasn't too bad (though a little soft, as opposed to chewy) when eaten.

(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/rafletcher/IMG_1272.jpg) (http://s86.photobucket.com/user/rafletcher/media/IMG_1272.jpg.html)

Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: numbnuts on May 23, 2016, 03:21:17 pm
Just made my first sour dough bread and it came out all right too yeah, I normally use a bread maker, but I thought I'd make a change to do it by hand, but I didn't like the idea of kneading it for 10 minutes so I did it in my Kenwood with the dough hook. Well pleased with the results have to make it again that's for sure.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob on January 03, 2017, 08:04:51 am
Decided that the only bread I'm going to eat (at home anyway) shall be home made, so I dug out Peter Reinharts book again and got baking. His methods are super easy and I've always had great success with them, except this time, I could not get the dough to raise..at all. (overnight, in the fridge).
Ok, so I only stretched it twice and probably didn't wait long enough, so I tried again..Wonderfully smooth dough, but would it raise? Nope.
Checked the date on the yeast; Best before 2010!!!.
Bought some new yeast and it was almost bubbling before I could get it in the fridge. and had risen more than 3x after 4 hours, which is the minimum he recommends leaving it. It was a little too wet to shape properly and would probably have benefited from staying in the fridge over night, but man, it's still good.
(http://i.imgur.com/T6dw4yll.jpg)

I highly recommend trying cold fermentation and Reinhart's methods. Very little active work (no kneading!), but the stretch & fold techniques still sucks up time, as you have to do it 3-4 times with 10 minutes intervals.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on January 03, 2017, 12:58:16 pm
What recipe did you make Jakob? Have you tried any of his stuff with sprouted flour? (Didn't realise this was a thing until about 30 mins ago).
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob on January 03, 2017, 06:09:54 pm
This was his basic lean/french bread. Never heard of sprouted flour :)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on January 04, 2017, 07:28:44 pm
This was his basic lean/french bread. Never heard of sprouted flour :)

It appears to be 5 times the price of unsprouted so I think I'll give it a miss...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Kim on January 04, 2017, 07:58:52 pm
Bet it makes you fart, too.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on January 05, 2017, 07:23:53 am
I got a Panasonic bread maker for Christmas to replace the ancient no brand second hand one that was given to me by my MiL. The old one only made a semi decent load about one in 5 attempts. The new Panasonic one has so far made three perfect loafs out of four attempts. They are much much better than the loaves made by the old one I am very chuffed. The only failure was one loaf that looked like it hadn't mixed properly and was completely unrisen, I presume I hadn't attached the mixing blade properly.
I will now attempt something more adventurous than a standard white or wholemeal loaf. Cheese and bacon bread will be first (the Panasonic has a hopper to dipense seeds, nuts or bacon at the required time into the mix).
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hatler on January 05, 2017, 09:31:11 am
We have a Kenwood BM450 and it is amazingly reliable at knocking out consistent quality loaves.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Legs on January 05, 2017, 02:00:44 pm
I bought my father a Morphy Richards 48280 Fastbake for Christmas two years ago and he's only needed to buy bread on a handful of occasions since.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: orienteer on January 05, 2017, 04:53:05 pm
Been using a Panasonic bread maker for years. Like all their stuff, very reliable. Although the manual says you can just chuck all the ingredients in, I always mix them well before finally adding fat and water. I use olive oil rather than butter.

If the bread hasn't risen you probably forgot the yeast.

DAHIKT
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on January 06, 2017, 10:20:32 am
Made a really nice wholemeal loaf yesterday. Today I am trying a rapid brown loaf, slightly more yeast and a two hour process rather than four. I will have to buy more flour at the weekend as I have nearly run out !
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on January 07, 2017, 04:54:21 pm
After waiting all week for my sourdough starter to come back from the dead, I had rather a lot of it left after I'd made the levain,  so I've made some experimental dough using the starter, a tonne of Shipton Mill Smoked Stoneground Wholemeal and a dod of plain white strong. Made it up with a splash of walnut oil and guessed at the water. Hopefully it will be edible being as I made a kilo of the stuff...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: SteveC on January 07, 2017, 05:17:43 pm
Rye bread today. 75% rye, 25% plain (soft) flour, with added lard and black treacle.
Not had a chance to taste it yet but it looks pretty good. Heavy for the size but that's what I would expect from rye.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: campagman on January 07, 2017, 06:17:27 pm
Rye bread today. 75% rye, 25% plain (soft) flour, with added lard and black treacle.
Not had a chance to taste it yet but it looks pretty good. Heavy for the size but that's what I would expect from rye.
Light or dark Rye? I have been making Rye bread lately. Started off using dark Rye and Strong Plain Flour but when I'd used that up I tried some light Rye with Strong Wholemeal Flour. This later combo was harder to knead (I always make bread by hand).
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: SteveC on January 07, 2017, 08:06:29 pm
Light or dark Rye?
Not sure! To be honest I'd forgotten there were two sorts. I just saw the flour somewhere before Christmas, remembered a recipe I wanted to try (that's for a cake and we are still well stocked from Christmas) and bought it on spec. I've just been downstairs to check and the pack doesn't specify either. However, from the colour it's light.
Quote
I have been making Rye bread lately. Started off using dark Rye and Strong Plain Flour but when I'd used that up I tried some light Rye with Strong Wholemeal Flour. This later combo was harder to knead (I always make bread by hand).
I only make by hand as well. This mix wasn't too bad to knead, if a bit sticky.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob on January 08, 2017, 12:26:03 am
(http://i.imgur.com/yjLGK5Zl.jpg)

More Peter Reinhart stuff, this time bagels. Under estimated how much they would rise 2nd time around, so I'll divide it into 8 bagels rather than 6 next time.   They're a little too much 'bread like' as supposed to 'bagel like', but supposedly you just need to poach them a bit longer. I'll experiment next time.
(They're still very good!)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on January 08, 2017, 12:34:34 am
I almost made cinnamon rolls this weekend but fortunately Pumpkin came and sat on my lap and saved me from bored baking-come-eating.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on January 08, 2017, 05:02:03 pm
First sourdough of the winter turned out quite pleasingly :)
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/1/727/31347140614_d48d67950c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PL3hMC)2017-01-08_04-58-13 (https://flic.kr/p/PL3hMC) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob on January 08, 2017, 06:36:48 pm
That looks promising!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob on January 24, 2017, 07:07:58 am
Peter Reinharts "Lean Bread"
Dough raised so much over night that it popped the lid of the bowl and actually had a muffin top! (which was dried out and removed before I took this picture)
(http://i.imgur.com/JGQUngl.jpg)

As always,I put the loaves too close together in the oven, but then you get to tear them apart and get this:
(http://i.imgur.com/Zppd4yL.jpg)

This is seriously the fluffiest bread I've ever made. I want to slice it up and put it my pillow case and sleep on it.
(http://i.imgur.com/1Z0HroP.jpg)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: rafletcher on January 30, 2017, 02:44:16 pm
I attempted cornbread for the fist time. Except the bicarb was, umm, 9 years old, and I put 80% too much flour in (doing a half quantity and misread 140g as 240g). Still, it was tasty, but rather stodgy.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on March 22, 2017, 07:43:54 pm
Anyone made brioche burger rolls?
Worth it?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on March 22, 2017, 11:32:32 pm
Haven't ever tried brioche buns, as I've found brioche a bit faffy, and tbh supermarket brioche buns are good enough for me. I've had good results from these though, which are also an enriched dough: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/may/28/burger-buns-poppyseed-barbecue-recipe

Worth it for special occasions IMO.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on July 27, 2018, 09:43:10 am
Interested in people's views on yeast types. Since it has become nigh impossible to find fresh yeast (Tesco instore bakery used to hand it out for free if you asked, not sue if they still do because that would involve going into Tesco) And I've been using Alison's standard dried as long as I can remember. A while back they re-worked their production resulting in smaller granules that took longer to reconstitute, I assume that change is around making it longer lasting or summat.

Anyhoo, I used "instant" dried yeast recently while in Portugal (he sort you mix dry into flour), and to be honest I would be hard put to tell the difference. I suspect the only reason I haven't used it is that Real Men Bakers Don't Use Instant, or some prejudice like that. Anyone found any difference?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on July 27, 2018, 10:16:22 am
If you've a Morrisons near you, they may sell fresh yeast, whether in packets on the shelves (seems variable), or by asking at the bakery counter; or is there a proper baker's anywhere local to you?

OTOH, I consider myself a Real Baker*, and I use Allinson's easy bake all the time†. I haven't noticed any real difference with fresh yeast, and the convenience is hard to beat - it means I can pretty much always have pizza on the table in just over an hour. Note that Campaign for Real Bread ultra-purists may want to steer clear of instant, as most have additives (The Allinson's has an emulsifying agent and some vitamin C - I think the former is for the production process, and the latter helps kick-start the dough proving) - IIRC even some of the organic brands have these.

*My sourdough starter's well over a decade old, etc. etc.
†But then I also use my bread maker lots, and even make quiche...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on July 27, 2018, 12:44:10 pm
I've only ever used dried/easy. Life's too short.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on September 11, 2019, 09:07:32 am
Prompted by the sourdough thread, I was wandering around Bakery Bits, interested in their selection of flour. The Matthews Organic Wholemeal seemed interesting, 16Kg for £15 seems very good value. Let's see how strong....12% not bad. Where's it from? Have a guess before clicking

(click to show/hide)


Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on April 12, 2020, 09:44:52 pm
One of the only breads I ever buy is the par-baked stuff, for convenience.

I got me to thinking, if they can par-bake bread, why can't I? I tend not to make rolls because of the number to get through before they get uninteresting, but if I was to par-bake......

Anyhoo, it works well. I followed my normal practice of using the oven to raise them, then letting the oven heat up to temperature with them inside. I gave them a milk glaze, so used the first sign of browning to take them out, otherwise I'd say about 5 - 10 minutes before they are finished. Then, a few hours later back in the oven for 10 min at 180, pretty much as good as straight out of a normal bake. Tomorrow will be an experiment baking them from the fridge and at some point in the future, try from the freezer.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on April 14, 2020, 09:16:22 am
.... and the fridge experiment worked well, now just the freezer one, there's no reason not to expect it to do the same.

In separate news I'm thinking of trying the Matthews French flour (https://www.fwpmatthews.co.uk/product/matthews-t55-french-bread-flour/) ....but, 9.5% protein!! That chimes with when I was experimenting year ago, trying to copy a baguette without French flour, the best results I got were from plain (not strong) flour. They may have been "best" but they still weren't up to much.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on April 20, 2020, 08:14:39 pm
..... and the freezer 'speriment was even better. Defrosted for a minute in the microwave then into a 200 oven for 10, perfection with the milk glaze working well. No idea why I thought there was some mystery about the shop bought par-baked stuff, although readying it for non-frozen packaging is likely to have some tech around it.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on April 21, 2020, 07:57:59 am
The Matthews Organic Wholemeal seemed interesting, 16Kg for £15 seems very good value. Let's see how strong....12% not bad. Where's it from? Have a guess before clicking

I would have guessed Canada, which seems to be where most of the strong flour comes from. Apparently, we can't grow the right type of wheat in the UK climate. (I expect you knew this already.)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on April 24, 2020, 09:37:22 am
MrsC  has perfected making sourdough gluten free loaves, with real crust and flavour.

I haven't eaten bread that tasted like this in 24 years. I'm going to get very fat.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Russell on April 24, 2020, 11:49:37 am
Thanks for the suggestion of Mathews, we have just ordered 15kg of 2 types of flour as we are getting a little fed up with loaves made with white flour which is all have been able to buy from supermarkets so far.

Even the addition of spelt, seeds and so on can't really get the body in to them.

Unfortunately sourdough loaves using a starter have not yet worked (well to be precise, the starter has not worked) although the French sponge (poolish) method sourdough does work.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on April 24, 2020, 11:51:29 am
MrsC  has perfected making sourdough gluten free loaves, with real crust and flavour.

I haven't eaten bread that tasted like this in 24 years. I'm going to get very fat.

What flour do you use? I tried making a 100% buckwheat bread but it wasn't exactly a 100% success...

I've done 100% rye successfully but that's low gluten, rather than gluten free.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on April 24, 2020, 01:44:25 pm
MrsC  has perfected making sourdough gluten free loaves, with real crust and flavour.

I haven't eaten bread that tasted like this in 24 years. I'm going to get very fat.

What flour do you use? I tried making a 100% buckwheat bread but it wasn't exactly a 100% success...

I've done 100% rye successfully but that's low gluten, rather than gluten free.
I'll have to ask her. It isn't one flour.

https://www.freshisreal.com/buckwheat-sourdough-loaf-gluten-free-vegan/#tasty-recipes-4516
(I use linseed instead of psyllium husk, ordinary sugar and added 2 tsp of xantham gum. Oats, linseed and sunflower seeds I whizzed up in the herb chopper to make a coarse flour.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Russell on April 24, 2020, 02:08:24 pm
For lunch we have just cut into a loaf made with courgette and butter milk.  Verr nice!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on April 24, 2020, 02:12:45 pm
https://www.freshisreal.com/buckwheat-sourdough-loaf-gluten-free-vegan/#tasty-recipes-4516
(I use linseed instead of psyllium husk, ordinary sugar and added 2 tsp of xantham gum. Oats, linseed and sunflower seeds I whizzed up in the herb chopper to make a coarse flour.

Interesting, thanks. I tried xanthan gum in my attempt but obviously it wasn't an effective replacement for gluten by itself. Arrowroot and psyllium sound like good additions.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on April 24, 2020, 03:41:55 pm
Given that my stocks of strony white flour are getting far lower than I like, I'm augmenting my bread with the addition of 60g porridge oats. Most days I make a loaf, and the recipe at the moment is 170 strong white, 170g wholemeal, 60g jumbo porridge oats. However, I am hoping to lay my hands on a couple of 16kg bags this evening.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hellymedic on April 26, 2020, 08:28:14 pm
Just been on the phone to socially-distanced Mum (84).

She said Dad (89.7) fancied a baguette, which was something she had not baked before, so she Googled and baked.

SUCCESS!

Mum has also frozen portions of dough for future baking.

Mum is rather good...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 28, 2020, 07:57:35 pm
Prompted by the sourdough thread, I was wandering around Bakery Bits, interested in their selection of flour. The Matthews Organic Wholemeal seemed interesting, 16Kg for £15 seems very good value. Let's see how strong....12% not bad. Where's it from? Have a guess before clicking

(click to show/hide)
Breadbasket of Europe, traditionally, due to its "black soil". (As Citoyen says, I'm sure you and almost everyone else reading this already knew that, but hey... )
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on April 28, 2020, 08:06:53 pm
Scored 16Kg of Carr's T55 off Amazon at a sensible £1.10/Kg, so Baguettes'R'Us when it arrives.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on May 02, 2020, 12:48:20 pm
First try, none too shabby but still work to do

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/--OfRzuo-VfA/Xq1dyIVSuRI/AAAAAAADOhk/kUE2qcYkb7QX1MlCDoI0bX_2hhdcAX5swCPcBGAsYHg/s1600/IMG_20200502_110417.jpg)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on May 02, 2020, 02:11:25 pm
First try, none too shabby but still work to do

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/--OfRzuo-VfA/Xq1dyIVSuRI/AAAAAAADOhk/kUE2qcYkb7QX1MlCDoI0bX_2hhdcAX5swCPcBGAsYHg/s1600/IMG_20200502_110417.jpg)
Looking good. You’re going to have to change your name to Jambon.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hellymedic on May 02, 2020, 03:53:29 pm
Mum's baguettes were probably made with flour bought from Sainsbury's, as I'm doing much of her procurement.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on May 02, 2020, 08:53:50 pm
I made some baguettes and I thought they were an awful lot of effort for little reward. I've decided that breadmakers exist for a reason.

I now have a lot of flour - I met the excellent Gattopardo near the M25 nd he supplied me with 16kg each of strong white and wholemeal flour, from Wrights mill, Ponders End.

I don think that Ponders End is a really depressing name for a place.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on May 02, 2020, 09:22:54 pm
Anywhere online that has non-industrial quantities of flour and yeast?

Last thing I made was a first attempt at soda bread (no yeast y’see):

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/5nnzpgx90wmpzp5/2020-04-30%2019.15.09.jpg?dl=0)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: ScumOfTheRoad on May 02, 2020, 09:40:00 pm
Yum! Send me a slice for my breakfast tomorrow?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on May 03, 2020, 10:31:24 am
I made some baguettes and I thought they were an awful lot of effort for little reward.

No more effort than normal breadmaking, but each to their own.

Anyhow, here's the summary of the first baking.

Making was much as any loaf, with the exception of no oil, no added sugar of any kind, 76% water dough, double yeast
Kneaded a little more, given the low gluten.
Top & bottom heat, with water in the solid oven tray (neff have solid shelf  as well as wire grill- perfect for this)
Baguette holder fashioned by folding two silicone  sheets into the wire grills, forming a V.

Good:
Overall taste and texture was good, still more like a supermarket baguette than an artisan baker, but I'll take that.
Texture was a little close, rather than open and airy. Repeated proving may improve (ha!) this
Strong indications that par-baking will work well

Not so good:
The baguette holder left the bottoms not-crusty. I'll either buy a baguette tray or make one from perforated mild steel.
Shape needs a little work, but actually should be straightforward to improve.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 03, 2020, 10:46:34 am


(https://i.ibb.co/KrfKW2P/IMG-20200430-201908-421.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6WTXFHM)

Cheese and green chilli sourdough.

Disappeared within a morning
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on May 03, 2020, 07:43:21 pm
Since everyone is making bread I made soda bread as I have some gone off milk and used french bread flour and t45 flour.

(https://i.imgur.com/zd8lxubl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZpAJsCbl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PkAQVQnl.jpg)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on May 03, 2020, 08:23:43 pm
Cheese and green chilli sourdough.

Looks damn good.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 03, 2020, 09:35:56 pm
It was like crack....couldnt leave it alone. Just made another one but tripled the chilli content.

Also made a standard pure white sourdough (run out of rye)

(https://i.ibb.co/LxL5ztv/IMG-20200503-212417-709.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5rNFW82)

Also got a sack of 00 flour, our own eggs, so fresh pasta tomorrow,

and...finally....guess what I found in the garden....

(https://i.ibb.co/8YndxVK/IMG-20200503-213822-589.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KKcLsH0)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on May 03, 2020, 09:44:01 pm
Now my standard white sourdough is tasty enough but it doesn't rise anything like that, or at least the bubbles in it are much smaller. I use 500g strong white flour, 350g starter 190ml water. Prove for 2-3 hours, knock back then into a long banneton for around 7 hours, after which it's just nudging the top. Both provings i cover it with a muslin cloth.
Lazy bacteria? Rubbish baker? Other?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 03, 2020, 09:45:18 pm
Not enough water, and dont knock it back.  Are you shaping it to get spring?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on May 03, 2020, 09:47:09 pm
I tried wetter but it sort of splurged over the baking sheet when I tipped it out. I'll increase it a bit once I've bought more flour.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 03, 2020, 09:49:16 pm
Try this:

200g sourdough starter.
250ml of water @ 28°C (ish) (1/3 boiling 2/3 cold).
400g Canadian Very Strong white flour.

Chuck it all in bowl. Mix with a spatula, leave for 25 mins to ‘autolyse’ (soak up the water properly).
Add 10g salt.
Knead on low speed in mixer for about  10mins.
Cling film over mixing bowl and leave to bulk prove at normal room temp for about 3-4hrs or until the dough has about doubled in size.  Should look like meringue.

Turn out. Shape. Bench rest 15 min.

Fold and shape.
Place into proving basket. 3-4hrs for final rise.

Pre-set cloche or cast iron casserole in oven

Bake in cloche at 240°C for 42min. (Take lid off at 25-30 min).
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 03, 2020, 09:50:10 pm
I tried wetter but it sort of splurged over the baking sheet when I tipped it out. I'll increase it a bit once I've bought more flour.

Try above recipe. I'll find some youtube vids for shaping


Here you go: https://youtu.be/8uz97MZZmRg
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 03, 2020, 09:59:15 pm
I guess this is bread too...

(https://i.ibb.co/0VWd1gm/IMG-20200415-194155-991.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Dg6Smxz)

(https://i.ibb.co/5ctfqDj/IMG-20200424-192804-560.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DKsS3XM)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on May 03, 2020, 10:12:25 pm
C'mon then flatus, let's have the chili bread recipe?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on May 03, 2020, 10:14:04 pm
Bugger the chilli bread - GPS coordinates for truffles, if you please
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 03, 2020, 10:17:17 pm
C'mon then flatus, let's have the chili bread recipe?

As per recipe above but stick in 150g of strong cheddar, and finely sliced green finger chillies (indian food type). Add it when when it goes in the mixer
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 03, 2020, 10:19:46 pm
Bugger the chilli bread - GPS coordinates for truffles, if you please

Had some truffle shavings on linguine for dinner, with pepper, olive oil and a touch of lemon juice. Verr nice.

Found about £100 worth. Going to leave the area alone now and have another root around in July.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on May 03, 2020, 10:26:39 pm
I tried wetter but it sort of splurged over the baking sheet when I tipped it out. I'll increase it a bit once I've bought more flour.

Try above recipe. I'll find some youtube vids for shaping


Here you go: https://youtu.be/8uz97MZZmRg
Brilliant, thanks. Shaping is what I'm not doing.  I shall learn and experiment.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 03, 2020, 10:35:22 pm
It pays to be quite gentle. Don't knock the dough back and dont prove too long. First prove in the mixing bowl 2-3 hours for dough to double. Proving basket 3-4hours
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on May 03, 2020, 11:33:59 pm
Found about £100 worth. Going to leave the area alone now and have another root around in July.

Bloody hell. I thought I was doing well discovering trompettes de mort in the woods next door.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on May 04, 2020, 03:34:52 am
Bugger the chilli bread - GPS coordinates for truffles, if you please

Had some truffle shavings on linguine for dinner, with pepper, olive oil and a touch of lemon juice. Verr nice.

Found about £100 worth. Going to leave the area alone now and have another root around in July.

Did you use a pig/dog or know where to look?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 04, 2020, 04:32:57 am
Bugger the chilli bread - GPS coordinates for truffles, if you please

Had some truffle shavings on linguine for dinner, with pepper, olive oil and a touch of lemon juice. Verr nice.

Found about £100 worth. Going to leave the area alone now and have another root around in July.

Did you use a pig/dog or know where to look?

My wife was snuffling around under a tree in the garden.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on May 04, 2020, 08:12:58 am

Did you use a pig/dog or know where to look?


My wife was snuffling around under a tree in the garden.


So that'll be doggie style then (set 'em up, etc)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: The Family Cyclist on May 06, 2020, 01:50:56 pm
I have a problem in that my kids love my home made bread. Made two loaves Sunday and froze one. It got two days sandwiches before they had eaten the rest

However the youngest was excited as had shop bread today after our weekly shop. Yes the white crap plastic stuff
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: T42 on May 06, 2020, 02:40:27 pm
Bugger the chilli bread - GPS coordinates for truffles, if you please

Had some truffle shavings on linguine for dinner, with pepper, olive oil and a touch of lemon juice. Verr nice.

Found about £100 worth. Going to leave the area alone now and have another root around in July.

Did you use a pig/dog or know where to look?

My wife was snuffling around under a tree in the garden.

The father of one of the girls in my son's class used to hunt truffles for sale.  One day she turned up with a small basket of them to share round.  They never reached us: the buggers ate them all right there, like buns. "Very nice," said my son.  "Hmnphfffgh," said I.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: T42 on May 06, 2020, 02:43:50 pm
Anyway, this to say that, MrsT being indisposed, I have just baked my first loaf of bread. Rye bread with lots of seeds for a low glycaemic index.  MrsT, watching from the touchline, says it looks like bread.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on May 06, 2020, 05:34:03 pm
I have a bag of wholemeal spelt flour in the cupboard that I bought ages ago but forgot why... But the bread bin was running low so I made another loaf today, and decided to use 20% spelt flour.

Just tasted a bit.... Mmmm, not bad at all.

Interestingly, it seems noticeably lighter than a loaf made with the same proportion of wholemeal wheat flour.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on May 06, 2020, 06:15:24 pm
When ICBA (ie, not right now) my "standard" mix is 1.2Kg Wholemeal, 100g Rye, 300g spelt and 100g white making two large loaves. I find it has a good balance of flavour and density.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on May 06, 2020, 06:36:47 pm
When ICBA (ie, not right now) my "standard" mix is 1.2Kg Wholemeal, 100g Rye, 300g spelt and 100g white making two large loaves. I find it has a good balance of flavour and density.

That sounds too wholemealy for me. I've never really got on with 100% wholemeal but since getting into making my own bread, I've come to realise that there are no rules, you can simply go with whatever suits your tastes - so I find about 20% wholemeal is enough to give a bit of flavour and texture but retain most of the characteristics of white bread. Obviously you like wholemeal bread more than me.

I like to use a bit of (light) rye too, again about 20%, but alas I've not been able to get hold of any rye flour since lockdown and my stock has run out.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on May 06, 2020, 07:24:41 pm
What, if any, is the consensus regarding rye flour amongst the aficionados? I've often used it as a lesser ingredient with white & wholemeal, typically 200g white, 150g wholemeal, 50g white, but at those ratios you hardly notice that it is there. I notice that Marriages have rye flour at under £13 for 16kg. I don't want to buy a load of stuff I can't use before its best-before date though.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: SteveC on May 06, 2020, 08:24:29 pm
MrsC and I both like rye bread, but I'd be wary of buying that much. 100% rye is very hard work. 50:50 can be nice. Much less and it gets difficult to tell it's there.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on May 06, 2020, 09:27:32 pm
I just asked Mrs Pcolbeck to get me some rye flour tomorrow when she goes to the scoop shop. I am going to experiment.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 06, 2020, 09:55:23 pm
Bit of dark rye in the mix is lovely. 10%-20%
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: TimC on May 07, 2020, 09:44:42 am
Flour. I remember that. Does it still exist?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 07, 2020, 10:04:51 am
Apparently so....

(https://i.ibb.co/tL0rDHJ/IMG-20200506-234614-794.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KKtvW5r)
image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)

It's who you know  ;D
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: robgul on May 07, 2020, 10:22:05 am
Flour. I remember that. Does it still exist?

Mrs robgul has today purchased, online, a 16kg bag of strong white breadflour - even with the delivery cost it's only a few pence per loaf more than the usual flour in 1.5kg bags from the supermarket.   We also have an artisan baker about 5 miles away that is selling breadflour re-bagged in kilos from his bulk stock.

Rob
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hatler on May 07, 2020, 10:30:27 am
We've managed to score : -
1 x 16Kg plain flour from a resourceful chap from a flat somewhere in Sutton
1 x 16Kg strong white bread flour from the same place
1.5Kg rye flour from a shop in Sheen
1.5Kg wholemeal flour from Waitrose

We have sufficient granary in stock.

And yesterday Mrs hatler managed to swap two white loaves and a jar of home made damson jam for 250g of dried yeast from someone who bought 500g online but will never use that much before it's past its use by date.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: TimC on May 07, 2020, 11:01:31 am
Blimey. I think a 16kg bag would suffice for the rest of my life! I managed to get a 1.5kg bag of plain flour from the Co-op a week or so ago, but that was for a neighbour. She makes me cakes occasionally, so there was some benefit! But that was the one and only occasion in the last 7 weeks I've seen any flour in any shop (and there was only that one bag on the shelf)..
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on May 07, 2020, 02:21:41 pm
And lo I have 2kg of Hercules extra strong and 1kg of rye flour. The Hercules first to see if its any different to the Dove Farm I have been using.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: neilrj on May 07, 2020, 02:28:44 pm
All Asda and Morrison's with in house bakeries are selling their bulk flours loose, I think it's rebagged in kilos. Asda as ever will sell you fresh yeast. Not used the aforesaid as we like Strong Canadian, used to be Sainsbury's own but now Shipton Mill in a 16kg bag that we've shared locally.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: robgul on May 07, 2020, 09:39:10 pm
Blimey. I think a 16kg bag would suffice for the rest of my life! I managed to get a 1.5kg bag of plain flour from the Co-op a week or so ago, but that was for a neighbour. She makes me cakes occasionally, so there was some benefit! But that was the one and only occasion in the last 7 weeks I've seen any flour in any shop (and there was only that one bag on the shelf)..

We make between 3 & 4 loaves a week - not that large as they are made in a Panasonic machine . . . not by hand.  the 16kg will do for a while!

Rob
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on May 08, 2020, 09:10:28 pm
I've had a moment of madness and bought another 32kg - strong brown with big wheat flakes, and wholemeal plain flour, for cakes & pastry, but with a bit more fibre. I suspect I might get rid of some of the latter to neighbours. i also need buckets so I bought a coulpe of those - 30 litres each with a lid..
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: HeltorChasca on May 08, 2020, 09:31:13 pm
My neighbour has a baguette in a cage at his house.

He says it was bread in captivity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 08, 2020, 09:43:30 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/DLzqs3V/IMG-20200508-201124-115.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zNQkjKn)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: perpetual dan on May 08, 2020, 09:52:20 pm
I’d forgotten about this thread. Our old bread machine died a while back and didn’t get replaced and by-hand was rare. With a bit more time for baking lately Mrs Dan slipped on the internet and ordered 25kg of flour (one bloody heavy bag to get up to our 1st floor kitchen) and I’ve got a mostly rye sourdough starter going and my 5th loaf is currently rising.

I’m making with 500-600g flour and only about 150g of starter (that’s about half the pot), salt and honey. It’ll go in the fridge overnight and be baked in time for elevensies (I’m a cereal for breakfast and a lie in sort). No oil and less starter than the recipes suggest, but it’s tasty enough to be gone in two lunchtimes. I’m not quite sure how varying the recipe will change things.

Mrs Dan also makes a nice focaccia. We seem to have run out of the old supply of non-white flour though :(
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on May 09, 2020, 08:00:47 am
Hercules Extra Stong is very good. Made a really nice bog standard white loaf with a good crust.
Now to experiment with the rye.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: andyoxon on May 09, 2020, 08:06:34 am
Are those with bulk (or other) bags of flour concerned at all about weevils (etc) showing up for a good time? Any issues?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: nicknack on May 09, 2020, 08:11:38 am
I think this belongs here. (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/ng-interactive/2020/may/09/stephen-collins-on-baking-bread-during-lockdown-cartoon)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on May 09, 2020, 08:22:21 am
I think this belongs here. (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/ng-interactive/2020/may/09/stephen-collins-on-baking-bread-during-lockdown-cartoon)

That’s what I came here for - 10 minutes too late...  :D
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 09, 2020, 08:22:51 am
Are those with bulk (or other) bags of flour concerned at all about weevils (etc) showing up for a good time? Any issues?

Not really. Extra protein
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: perpetual dan on May 09, 2020, 09:05:15 am
Are those with bulk (or other) bags of flour concerned at all about weevils (etc) showing up for a good time? Any issues?

No issues so far. At the current rate I'd expect our big bag to be gone faster than the smaller bags when bread making was only occasional and I don't remember finding anything then either.

That cartoon is good - I'm under no illusions that I'd have the time and energy during the week ordinarily.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on May 09, 2020, 10:03:01 am
Are those with bulk (or other) bags of flour concerned at all about weevils (etc) showing up for a good time? Any issues?

No. In the past 3 weeks we have socialised more with neighbours than in the previous 25 years, thanks to a enterprising young chap a couple of doors down leafletting a few dozen houses and setting up a Whatsapp group. Our road does not lend itself to any kind of "neighbourhood" feel: busy, narrow, narrow pavements, few of the houses have front gardens. Also, quite a lot of old-people flats.

I don't think I will have any trouble getting rid of flour.
Title: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on May 09, 2020, 12:34:35 pm
That cartoon is good - I'm under no illusions that I'd have the time and energy during the week ordinarily.

I haven’t bought a loaf in a shop since last September. I mostly do my baking at weekends, and keep a supply in the freezer for when the fresh stuff runs out.

This was fine while I was the only one in the house eating bread, but now my son is back home from uni and with us for the next two years at least, so we’re getting through a lot more bread.

Not sure what’s going to happen when I go back to work but I didn’t have problems maintaining my sourdough starter pre-lockdown. It’s neither hard work nor time-consuming

I’m hoping that most people won’t have so much time for baking after it’s all over, then I might be able to get hold of rye flour.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: SteveC on May 09, 2020, 01:01:44 pm
In a normal year, we have about 20 weekends away from home. We only buy bread when on holiday.
My standard batch is four pounds of flour, by hand, which makes either for 'two pound' loaves (which is a month's worth of breakfasts) or 40 rolls (which is two month's worth of lunches for me, MrsC preferring a jacket potato). They all go into the freezer, having cut the loaves in half. I also make bread for our re-enacting displays. I use a sponge method. All the water, all the yeast, about half the flour for one rise, then add the rest of the flour, knead, then leave for a second rise, and finally shape, third rise, cook. 
Usual procedure is get the sponge going while sorting breakfast. Go to parkrun. Once home again do stage two. Then we usually end up going shopping. Third stage around or after lunch. Total time spent is under an hour. Elapsed time obviously much longer.

So it is possible to fit bread making into a busy lifestyle and I wouldn't want to go back to buying.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on May 09, 2020, 03:22:14 pm
That cartoon is good - I'm under no illusions that I'd have the time and energy during the week ordinarily.

I haven’t bought a loaf in a shop since last September. I mostly do my baking at weekends, and keep a supply in the freezer for when the fresh stuff runs out.

This was fine while I was the only one in the house eating bread, but now my son is back home from uni and with us for the next two years at least, so we’re getting through a lot more bread.

Not sure what’s going to happen when I go back to work but I didn’t have problems maintaining my sourdough starter pre-lockdown. It’s neither hard work nor time-consuming

I’m hoping that most people won’t have so much time for baking after it’s all over, then I might be able to get hold of rye flour.

https://flour.co.uk/buy-our-flour/16kg-sacks

I refer the Hon Mem to my local flour mill. I don't know whether you really want 16kg at once, but Marriages restock frequently in small batches and it runs out fast. A couple of days ago I ordered 16kg of strong brown and 16kg of golden wholemeal plain flour.

Edit: they have rye flour in stock as I type. £12.49 for 16kg. Bargain!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on May 09, 2020, 04:05:53 pm
Edit: they have rye flour in stock as I type. £12.49 for 16kg. Bargain!

It may well have been true at the time of typing but... arses. That really is quick.

I can get hold of white and wholemeal wheat flour easily enough from my wife's friend who is a baker, but they don't do any of the fancy "artisan" stuff like rye or spelt.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on May 09, 2020, 05:55:12 pm
Just keep an eye on the website. When I bought the bag of "golden" plain flour and the brown the other day, both were sold out once I'd bought them.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: perpetual dan on May 09, 2020, 07:16:57 pm
In a normal year, we have about 20 weekends away from home. We only buy bread when on holiday.
My standard batch is four pounds of flour, by hand, which makes either for 'two pound' loaves (which is a month's worth of breakfasts) or 40 rolls (which is two month's worth of lunches for me, MrsC preferring a jacket potato). They all go into the freezer, having cut the loaves in half. I also make bread for our re-enacting displays. I use a sponge method. All the water, all the yeast, about half the flour for one rise, then add the rest of the flour, knead, then leave for a second rise, and finally shape, third rise, cook. 
Usual procedure is get the sponge going while sorting breakfast. Go to parkrun. Once home again do stage two. Then we usually end up going shopping. Third stage around or after lunch. Total time spent is under an hour. Elapsed time obviously much longer.

So it is possible to fit bread making into a busy lifestyle and I wouldn't want to go back to buying.

On a day when I'm mostly about fitting in baking seems easy enough. I'm favouring mix and knead after supper; knock back and into a banetton then the fridge before bed, out for an hour or so while I have breakfast and wash, then into the oven as I do my morning coffee, emails etc. If I were out for 10 hours at a stretch in the day it gets harder to fit all that in. I like fresh bread, but not enough to set an earlier alarm or work part time! Our freezer is pretty much tetris to get stuff in already, so I'm not convinced I'd make that work either. It'd be a nice weekend treat still, and as citoyen says keeping the starter going isn't so hard.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on May 10, 2020, 12:35:32 am
Edit: they have rye flour in stock as I type. £12.49 for 16kg. Bargain!

It may well have been true at the time of typing but... arses. That really is quick.

I can get hold of white and wholemeal wheat flour easily enough from my wife's friend who is a baker, but they don't do any of the fancy "artisan" stuff like rye or spelt.

There again now, it seems. https://flour.co.uk/view/dark-rye
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on May 11, 2020, 01:26:37 pm
Hmm 50% dark rye loaf has come out not so good. There is a fair bit of white flour that hasn't been incorporated into the do and i stuck to one corner.
I wonder what it's like inside, I'll find out in 10 minutes when it cools enough to cut.

Next time I think I will mix the rye and normal strong flour together manually before dumping it in the bread machine.

Update:

This inside was fine. It was just a thin layer of white flour on 1 x 1 x 1 inch corner of the crust.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hatler on May 12, 2020, 12:17:47 pm
Brioche buns ready for last Saturday's home made burger-fest.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49885712073_4d5089a249_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j1ejd2)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on May 12, 2020, 03:30:37 pm
Here are some free kindle bread books:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B087ZQMY4T
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0875FV6JP
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0883GH95Y
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B087T9KNMK
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B087Z2F7RH
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B087TS1TRV
And a pizza one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B087ZK6BXC/
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: trekker12 on May 13, 2020, 11:47:41 am
Are those with bulk (or other) bags of flour concerned at all about weevils (etc) showing up for a good time? Any issues?

Not really. Extra protein

And always take the lesser of two weevils  ::-)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: robgul on May 13, 2020, 05:04:11 pm
Our 16kg sack of bread flour arrived today  . . . should keep us going for a bit.

Rob
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Woofage on May 14, 2020, 10:21:19 am
I got some live yeast from a local baker. Haven't used it for years. I've managed to ascertain the right quantity for use in the breadmaker though and the results are better than I've ever had :thumbsup:.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Little Jim on May 14, 2020, 11:15:59 am
I got some live yeast from a local baker. Haven't used it for years. I've managed to ascertain the right quantity for use in the breadmaker though and the results are better than I've ever had :thumbsup:.

It freezes quite well too if you have got loads left over.  Cut it into the lumps the right size for the next mix and then rub it into flour and freeze individually as a sort of powder wrapped in cling film or small plastic bags.  When you are ready for the next mix just remove from the freeze, allow to thaw and away you go.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on May 14, 2020, 03:46:59 pm
I tried wetter but it sort of splurged over the baking sheet when I tipped it out. I'll increase it a bit once I've bought more flour.

Try above recipe. I'll find some youtube vids for shaping


Here you go: https://youtu.be/8uz97MZZmRg
Reporting back

Can't get any super hard Canadian flour at the vmoment, so used your recipe with the strong white I get from my local farm shop.  Studied the shaping video (and a couple of others) and had a go. I don't have a cloche or cast iron casserole so have been using the bowl of water in the bottom of the over to good effect.

Result: Much airier bread. Gorgeous taste too. I need to refine my shaping to suit  the long oval proving basket I have. I've spotted a couple of YouTube videos to help.

Thanks, all very useful.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 14, 2020, 04:02:14 pm
Great!  :thumbsup:

An iron casserole made all the difference to mine. Have a Hunt in tkmaxx at some point as they tend to have that sort of thing quite cheaply.

Next project...just before mixing, lob in 150g of strong grated cheddar and 3 or 4 sliced green chillies (hot indian ones, not tha pointless dutch shit) Then proceed as normal.

Just trust me on this one  ;)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: The Family Cyclist on May 14, 2020, 04:17:06 pm
I have inadvertently ended up with a lot of plain flour. Some will get mixed with strong for pizza bases but considering trying to make bread with some if I run out of strong. Any tips?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on May 14, 2020, 04:34:29 pm
Great!  :thumbsup:

An iron casserole made all the difference to mine. Have a Hunt in tkmaxx at some point as they tend to have that sort of thing quite cheaply.

Next project...just before mixing, lob in 150g of strong grated cheddar and 3 or 4 sliced green chillies (hot indian ones, not tha pointless dutch shit) Then proceed as normal.

Just trust me on this one  ;)
When you use the casserole do you preheat it before putting the dough in?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on May 14, 2020, 05:51:52 pm
When you use the casserole do you preheat it before putting the dough in?

Yes. Makes putting the loaf into it a bit tricky, which is why a cloche is better. Or if your casserole dish has a flat lid, you can simply invert it.

I quite fancy one of these Fourneau cast iron ovens - not cheap, but cheaper and easier than building a proper bread oven in the garden. They're also launching a 'levee' to make lifting your loaf into a casserole dish easier:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stranddesign/fourneau-grande-and-levee
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on May 14, 2020, 06:09:30 pm
OK, for the quantities in Flatus' recipe and my recipe of about 1kg of dough I've been using a 30cm x 16cm oval banneton. I also have a 22cm round banneton.

Is the 22cm big enough for the Flatus recipe, so I can get a nice boule loaf? 

Will a stainless steel mixing bowl inverted over the dough on a baking sheet work as a substitute cloche?

Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on May 14, 2020, 06:31:07 pm
When you use the casserole do you preheat it before putting the dough in?

Yes. Makes putting the loaf into it a bit tricky, which is why a cloche is better. Or if your casserole dish has a flat lid, you can simply invert it.

I quite fancy one of these Fourneau cast iron ovens - not cheap, but cheaper and easier than building a proper bread oven in the garden. They're also launching a 'levee' to make lifting your loaf into a casserole dish easier:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stranddesign/fourneau-grande-and-levee

Hmm. Maybe I could put an upturned dish over my pizza steel lump of metal off ebay. When it comes. 🤔
Still sounds like quite a lot of opportunity to burn myself though.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on May 14, 2020, 06:37:47 pm
OK, for the quantities in Flatus' recipe and my recipe of about 1kg of dough I've been using a 30cm x 16cm oval banneton. I also have a 22cm round banneton.

Is the 22cm big enough for the Flatus recipe, so I can get a nice boule loaf? 

Will a stainless steel mixing bowl inverted over the dough on a baking sheet work as a substitute cloche?


Bakery Bits have a 1kg basket that measures 22.5x8.5cm internal dia x depth if that helps you decide.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 14, 2020, 07:31:49 pm
Great!  :thumbsup:

An iron casserole made all the difference to mine. Have a Hunt in tkmaxx at some point as they tend to have that sort of thing quite cheaply.

Next project...just before mixing, lob in 150g of strong grated cheddar and 3 or 4 sliced green chillies (hot indian ones, not tha pointless dutch shit) Then proceed as normal.

Just trust me on this one  ;)
When you use the casserole do you preheat it before putting the dough in?

Yes, for at least 40 minutes.    I used a wooden pizza peel, lay it on top of the banetton, invert, then wiggle out the loaf. Then I slide it in to casserole.
For my large oval casserole I increase the ingredients by 50% and get a stonking huge well risen loaf
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 14, 2020, 07:33:42 pm
OK, for the quantities in Flatus' recipe and my recipe of about 1kg of dough I've been using a 30cm x 16cm oval banneton. I also have a 22cm round banneton.

Is the 22cm big enough for the Flatus recipe, so I can get a nice boule loaf? 

Will a stainless steel mixing bowl inverted over the dough on a baking sheet work as a substitute cloche?

Don't know about the banetton size. I think mine is about 25cm diameter.

For the mixing bowl thing, give it a try. Remeber the loaf needs space to rise because itll burn the top if not.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: SteveC on May 14, 2020, 08:34:12 pm
I have inadvertently ended up with a lot of plain flour. Some will get mixed with strong for pizza bases but considering trying to make bread with some if I run out of strong. Any tips?
You probably won't get the rise you would expect from hard wheat, but it will be perfectly edible.
They discussed this on Radio 4's Kitchen Cabinet on Saturday (available on BBC Sounds and as a podcast).
We will be having a go with plain flour when the re-enacting gets going again. Hard wheats weren't available until the 1860s (according to the programme) and we do cooking from the 1640s.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on May 15, 2020, 12:38:17 pm
50% rye load 2.0

I mixed the rye and white flour together by hand before dumping it in the breadmaker this time. Much better, no unmixed bits at all and a better load all round.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on May 15, 2020, 02:07:30 pm
50% rye load 2.0

I mixed the rye and white flour together by hand before dumping it in the breadmaker this time. Much better, no unmixed bits at all and a better load all round.

Did you use the same recipe as for a standard white loaf? If so, another thing you might try is increasing the water content - dark rye will absorb a lot more water than white flour, or even wholemeal.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on May 15, 2020, 03:01:23 pm
50% rye load 2.0

I mixed the rye and white flour together by hand before dumping it in the breadmaker this time. Much better, no unmixed bits at all and a better load all round.

Did you use the same recipe as for a standard white loaf? If so, another thing you might try is increasing the water content - dark rye will absorb a lot more water than white flour, or even wholemeal.

No the Panasonic has a dedicated rye bread mode (and dedicated rye paddle) and recipes for rye.  It did have more water than the standard white loaf.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: The Family Cyclist on May 15, 2020, 03:06:17 pm
I did have The kitchen cabinet on but as always people keep interrupting me at work when I'm trying to listen to interesting things
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on May 15, 2020, 03:41:45 pm
No the Panasonic has a dedicated rye bread mode (and dedicated rye paddle) and recipes for rye.  It did have more water than the standard white loaf.

Can you put my mind at rest, please? We are onto our 3rd Panasonic (got the first one about 16 years ago) and I'm convinced that the rye paddle came with it as standard. But I can't find it! My dear wife tells me she thinks it didn't and she's never seen it.

I've only every used rye flour as an additive - up to 50g in a 400g loaf, so there's never been  need to use the rye-specific paddle.

Incidenally, it looks as though Marriages are catching up with their stock again. Most of their lines are online now.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: JenM on May 15, 2020, 03:46:48 pm
My Panasonic came with a rye paddle as standard. Used it once without much success.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on May 15, 2020, 04:07:21 pm
Yup Rye paddle came with it. Has some cut outs in it compared to the standard one. I'm amazed I found it as it got chucked in a draw two years ago when I got the bread maker and this week was the first time I needed it.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: perpetual dan on May 16, 2020, 11:35:35 pm
I've just tried a dark rye recipie. That was a bit sticky, and hasn't come out very loaf like - despite rising better than most dough during the day.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on May 18, 2020, 02:16:43 pm
I bought some of this: https://flour.co.uk/view/country-malt-16kg-sack.

I made the first loaf with it this morning. Absolutely outstanding!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: neilrj on May 18, 2020, 07:28:19 pm
Try this:

200g sourdough starter.
250ml of water @ 28°C (ish) (1/3 boiling 2/3 cold).
400g Canadian Very Strong white flour.

Chuck it all in bowl. Mix with a spatula, leave for 25 mins to ‘autolyse’ (soak up the water properly).
Add 10g salt.
Knead on low speed in mixer for about  10mins.
Cling film over mixing bowl and leave to bulk prove at normal room temp for about 3-4hrs or until the dough has about doubled in size.  Should look like meringue.

Turn out. Shape. Bench rest 15 min.

Fold and shape.
Place into proving basket. 3-4hrs for final rise.

Pre-set cloche or cast iron casserole in oven

Bake in cloche at 240°C for 42min. (Take lid off at 25-30 min).

So we scaled that down to our banaton/dutch oven and got this:- (https://i.ibb.co/ZYYDcLK/Bread1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LJJ79k6)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on May 18, 2020, 07:34:32 pm
That looks very good. I had a go using "strong bread flour" from the local farm shop and going for a boule loaf (see previous discussions on proving basket size).  The basket was fine but I obviously need to work on my dough shaping as it collapsed when I tipped it out from the basket. An upturned stainless casserole did the job of the cloche.

Taste and structure is fine, a marked improvement on the original recipe. 
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 18, 2020, 08:04:20 pm
Try this:

200g sourdough starter.
250ml of water @ 28°C (ish) (1/3 boiling 2/3 cold).
400g Canadian Very Strong white flour.

Chuck it all in bowl. Mix with a spatula, leave for 25 mins to ‘autolyse’ (soak up the water properly).
Add 10g salt.
Knead on low speed in mixer for about  10mins.
Cling film over mixing bowl and leave to bulk prove at normal room temp for about 3-4hrs or until the dough has about doubled in size.  Should look like meringue.

Turn out. Shape. Bench rest 15 min.

Fold and shape.
Place into proving basket. 3-4hrs for final rise.

Pre-set cloche or cast iron casserole in oven

Bake in cloche at 240°C for 42min. (Take lid off at 25-30 min).

So we scaled that down to our banaton/dutch oven and got this:- (https://i.ibb.co/ZYYDcLK/Bread1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LJJ79k6)

Stunning work.

Bet that crust is like fresh baguette in France  :P
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 18, 2020, 08:06:38 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/pxNgJYj/IMG-20200518-095518-440.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G0GXczQ)

Last night's effort
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on May 18, 2020, 08:48:05 pm
So we scaled that down to our banaton/dutch oven and got this:- (https://i.ibb.co/ZYYDcLK/Bread1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LJJ79k6)

Strong work on the baker’s signature. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on May 18, 2020, 09:22:08 pm
Quim!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 18, 2020, 09:44:55 pm
Does it smell yeasty?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on May 21, 2020, 04:30:25 pm
Tales from the baguette bakery, Part III

Rocking the T55. Using a 70% hydration dough, I tried making baking utensils from foil. Crunched up, rolled flat and smeared with oil then rolled into half pipes, I would call this a qualified success

Here's the part baked ones  (only one bellied out)

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7H8rmkQKytY/XsadbCkfAxI/AAAAAAADTEQ/BzU-jrgRNnQrKOdIZwg-JZYlS31My5iQQCPcBGAsYHg/s1600/IMG_20200521_122203.jpg)

here's the fully baked one

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WHs8xlPbptY/XsadbEvy9VI/AAAAAAADTEQ/VxvL8EupPQk5p2qm_VkKefbWCdFSSEnHgCPcBGAsYHg/s1600/IMG_20200521_123033.jpg)

And an action shot

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vuPUigtF0mM/XsadbE-uWuI/AAAAAAADTEQ/090dk17hM28_5UPKQX_oamlSSjAq3jDGwCPcBGAsYHg/s1600/IMG_20200521_124425.jpg)

Cooked @ 220 on circotherm intensive, with a full width pan of water, crust is perfect. Consistency needs a little work still, but that's not too shabby at all.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on May 25, 2020, 07:10:56 pm
Latest attempt, using Flatus' recipe, although I had to substitute 70g wholemeal flour as I didn't quite have enough white.
Kneaded by hand, shaped, rested and shaped again. The "drawing towards you" bit of the shaping seems tpo be the key.

Fan oven 230C, dish of water in when I put the oven on, baked on a pizza stone.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/1rf7mgre2kyvthj/IMG_20200525_183217305.jpg?raw=1)

Good points: nice rising in the oven, didn't spread out all over the shop. Bad: cuts didn't open up.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: neilrj on May 25, 2020, 07:57:33 pm
Bread V2 of the Flatus recipe, very happy with the results!
Pizza steel on order, using it for both bread and pizza (obv) - anyone got a reliable sourdough pizza base recipe.

https://i.ibb.co/VVyVVNM/Bread-2.jpg[/img]](https://i.ibb.co/VVyVVNM/Bread-2.jpg) (http://[img width=479 height=640)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on May 26, 2020, 03:22:25 pm
Lidl are selling a pizza peel for £10
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: andyoxon on May 26, 2020, 04:21:53 pm
Anyone tried oat flour in a breadmaker (gluten free program?)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 26, 2020, 07:04:36 pm
Bread V2 of the Flatus recipe, very happy with the results!
Pizza steel on order, using it for both bread and pizza (obv) - anyone got a reliable sourdough pizza base recipe.

https://i.ibb.co/VVyVVNM/Bread-2.jpg[/img]](https://i.ibb.co/VVyVVNM/Bread-2.jpg) (http://[img width=479 height=640)

That looks like it's going to be delicious. Good spring, nice crust.

Fuck. Listen to me  ;D
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on May 27, 2020, 07:04:35 pm
Today I mixed dough with the old kenwood, think it needs an oil change in the gearbox as it is noisy ;)

Used 250g hovis white and 250g alinson wholemeal and seeds packet of yeast and a 9g pink himalayan salt.  Stuck it in the fridge for an overnight prove and tomorrow will take it out, knock it back and then decide to either let it have a second prove in the fridge or two proves in the hot flat.

Also did a 350g 00 pizza flour dough mix with a shot of olive oil, so tomorrow night is pizza night.  Will use the ceramic stone or the mason and cole terracotta pizza stone as the pizza steel is in a box somewhere.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: neilrj on May 27, 2020, 07:16:40 pm
Bread V2 of the Flatus recipe, very happy with the results!
Pizza steel on order, using it for both bread and pizza (obv) - anyone got a reliable sourdough pizza base recipe.

https://i.ibb.co/VVyVVNM/Bread-2.jpg[/img]](https://i.ibb.co/VVyVVNM/Bread-2.jpg) (http://[img width=479 height=640)

That looks like it's going to be delicious. Good spring, nice crust.

Fuck. Listen to me  ;D

It was superb!
You should be proud as it's your recipe and method.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on May 29, 2020, 04:29:51 pm
So mixed some dough, it has spent about 36 or more hours in the fridge proving.  Now separated in two and out in the warm for a second prove, then one baked in a le crueset cast iron casserole dish and the other in a bakeware non glazed loaf dish.

This is the ceramic baker https://www.lakeland.co.uk/AllProductReviews.action?productId=16075&productName=Ceramic%25202lb%2520Loaf%2520Pan I just dropped the proved loaf in to the heated ceramic, lets see what happens.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on May 29, 2020, 08:28:07 pm
Today was a bad bread day.

Using Flatus' recipe, I thought things would be OK. The difference between this attempt (which was an abject failure) and the previous (which was a success) was that I used all white flour. The previous attempt had around 70g wholemeal.  I suspect this is why the dough was so sticky this time and as my kneading is by hand it I found it too stciky to knead properly. The proving went OK but the shaping was a combination of Loud Bad Swears, some throwing of objects and a sticky mess on my hands. I managed to persuade it into the proving basket but it was fairly structureless.

Things got better when it came to tipping out the proving basket onto the floured pizza stone. Firstly the dough clung to the basket, so what ended up on the stone was a bit torn. I slashed it with a razor blade and picked up the stone. I was a bit hasty and the dough then slid off the floured stone onto the the cooker. Fuck fuck fuck.

I rescued it and stuck it in the oven, covering it with an upturned casserole. Then I didn't hear the timer so it came out burnt.

Tastes nice enough though.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: rogerzilla on May 29, 2020, 08:33:20 pm
SO was over the moon to find an unopened tin of Allinson yeast in my cupboard, part of the 2019 Brexit hoard.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 29, 2020, 08:36:05 pm
@Tim Hall Strong flours can hold more water, so if not strong reduce water a little bit.

Anyway, I invented something new today. I made a sort of tasty leavened flatbread today in an outside wood oven. Stuck some blended plum tomatoes on it and some of that Italian snot  cheese.

Tasted pretty good.  I reckon it'll catch on.

(https://i.ibb.co/ScCqgqd/IMG-20200529-192420-288.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bF9pVp2)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on May 29, 2020, 09:13:09 pm
Both breads failed to rise.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on May 29, 2020, 09:26:45 pm
Today was a bad bread day.

Using Flatus' recipe, I thought things would be OK. The difference between this attempt (which was an abject failure) and the previous (which was a success) was that I used all white flour. The previous attempt had around 70g wholemeal.  I suspect this is why the dough was so sticky this time and as my kneading is by hand it I found it too stciky to knead properly. The proving went OK but the shaping was a combination of Loud Bad Swears, some throwing of objects and a sticky mess on my hands. I managed to persuade it into the proving basket but it was fairly structureless.

Things got better when it came to tipping out the proving basket onto the floured pizza stone. Firstly the dough clung to the basket, so what ended up on the stone was a bit torn. I slashed it with a razor blade and picked up the stone. I was a bit hasty and the dough then slid off the floured stone onto the the cooker. Fuck fuck fuck.

I rescued it and stuck it in the oven, covering it with an upturned casserole. Then I didn't hear the timer so it came out burnt.

Tastes nice enough though.

We've all had a day like that. As Flatus say, but not just strength, I've found wholemeal flour takes a different amount of water than white, so when changing ratios of a familiar recipe it pays to be canny with the water.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on May 30, 2020, 09:56:57 am
Tasted pretty good.  I reckon it'll catch on.

You know what would enhance that, don’t you? A nice bit of pineapple.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on May 30, 2020, 12:46:58 pm
Tasted pretty good.  I reckon it'll catch on.

You know what would enhance that, don’t you? A nice bit of pineapple.

Wrong thread ;)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on May 30, 2020, 01:22:15 pm
Today was a bad bread day.

Please forgive me - if I laugh, it's from recognition.

Quote
I found it too sticky to knead properly. The proving went OK but the shaping was a combination of Loud Bad Swears, some throwing of objects and a sticky mess on my hands. I managed to persuade it into the proving basket but it was fairly structureless.

Have you tried oiling your hands?

I had some success yesterday with a "no knead" loaf. Just mix the ingredients roughly in the bowl, leave it to stand 10 minutes, stretch and fold, leave to stand another 10 minutes, stretch and fold again, then leave to ferment in the fridge overnight. Shape and final prove in the morning.

Higher water content allows gluten to form without kneading.

I would share a picture but the finished loaf didn't last long enough to take one.

Quote
Tastes nice enough though.

See, this is the thing you always need to remember - unless you end up with a real brick, fresh home-baked bread usually tastes pretty good even when it looks like shite. And ultimately, that's the goal - to produce a tasty loaf. Who really gives a fuck what it looks like on Instagram?

You also need to accept that unless you use a very strong flour, all-white dough with high water content just doesn't hold its shape so well. A lot can be achieved with good shaping technique (I'm a long way from perfect on this but getting better with practice), but it's always going to splat a little bit when turned out of the banneton.

You could also try playing around with proving times - eg reducing the first proving time (don't let it get fully doubled in size).
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on May 30, 2020, 02:24:15 pm
All useful stuff, thanks.

Climbing up the learning curve, is protein content directly related to strength of the flour?

The Sainsbury white bread flour I used is 13.9% protein.

I got two bags of hastily repackaged Tesco bread flour yesterday with a measily 11.3% protein.  The Allinson plain white I have is 9.9%, so not that far behind.

The Marriages website (flour.co.uk) has Manitoba Strong White at a massive 14.9%. I've just ordered some...

Good tip about oiling hands - I had tried dipping rthem in water with limited success.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on May 30, 2020, 04:16:54 pm
Climbing up the learning curve, is protein content directly related to strength of the flour?

Tbh, I think 'strong' is just another way of saying 'high protein' (over 13%) in this context. At least, that's how I understand it. There may be a more technically nuanced definition.

Quote
The Marriages website (flour.co.uk) has Manitoba Strong White at a massive 14.9%. I've just ordered some...

That's the good shit. :thumbsup:

If I hadn't just got a new 16kg sack of flour from our local baker, I would follow your example.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on May 30, 2020, 06:39:22 pm
I made another sourdough today. Gods, it was a wet bugger. Ostensibly I was using the same recipe as usual, however, last night when I made the production leaven it was late and I'd had rather a lot to drink and I started using the wrong recipe which has a different ratio of wholemeal to white in it. I noticed my mistake and tried to bodge round it but I can only assume the ratio was still not correct cos I had I right trial folding the dough this morning until I eventually stuck a bit more wholemeal in it.
(For the record when folding I oil the worktop and my hands).

Anyway, what I wanted to ask the panel was - my sourdough is always a bit saggy when I turn it out of the banneton, so I was thinking about trying to reduce the hydration a little. Currently it's at 72% hydration (god, I hate bakers percentages) so how much does the panel reckon I should start tweaking it down by?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on May 30, 2020, 08:02:17 pm
so how much does the panel reckon I should start tweaking it down by?

Try 60%. Which may not be as huge a difference in the actual water content as it sounds - maybe a couple of tablespoons worth, depending on the size of your loaf.

I've had decent results at 55% - never as light and airy as the higher hydration levels but much, much easier to handle.

Who wants huge holes in their bread anyway? You need a bit of structure to hold the butter.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on May 30, 2020, 08:45:15 pm
Cripes, going from 72 to 60% would mean going from 432g to 360g water in a 1kg loaf
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: neilrj on May 31, 2020, 12:34:15 am
2 loaves today. One is HF's sourdough (V3).

Left Hand is yeasted (years since we've used yeast) and the other is HF's sourdough recipe/method, sourdough is a bit 'caramalised' (burnt), adjusted temp. for yeasted baked a bit later. The yeasted had a massive bakers attic/mouse skyscraper - it is now croutons...

I think our new pizza steel kept the oven at a more stable (high) temp. so it is darker than V1/2 - it is a brilliant flavour though.
Pizza steel test is for another post.

(https://i.ibb.co/dPkSmJg/2Loaves.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dPkSmJg)

(https://i.ibb.co/LrvTThM/HF-V3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LrvTThM)



Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on May 31, 2020, 09:58:08 am
50% rye 50% wholemeal and the water replaced with Black Sheep bitter.

This is a brick of a loaf. Very dense but tasty. Only rose about half as much as a 50% rye 50% white flour loaf.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hellymedic on May 31, 2020, 02:17:54 pm
Interesting.

I am no yeast/brewing/fermentation expert but have vague recollections that yeast becomes inactive above a certain alcohol content, which limits the eventual strength of a beverage.

I'm therefore not surprised this rose less.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on May 31, 2020, 02:52:01 pm
I had the idea after a comment I saw on twitter about beer being a great substitute for water with rye bread. Perhaps not all of the water though ....
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hellymedic on May 31, 2020, 03:06:28 pm
I think brewers' yeast might be more alcohol tolerant than normal baking yeast. I'm still no yeast/fermentation expert, though might do some reading.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hatler on May 31, 2020, 03:43:00 pm
Yeast would seem to live up to about 13% (otherwise how would wine happen).

I can't see that beer (ABV approx 5%) would kill it.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on May 31, 2020, 04:37:38 pm
50% rye 50% wholemeal and the water replaced with Black Sheep bitter.

This is a brick of a loaf. Very dense but tasty. Only rose about half as much as a 50% rye 50% white flour loaf.

Whole meal never seems to rise as readily as strong white.

The brown flour I use rises beautifully but the Miller has added ascorbic acid.

I would be inclined to agree wit Hatler. Yeast dies, or at least becomes dormant, at about 15% alcohol. In baking, it is the high temperature that kills it, not the alcohol content.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on June 02, 2020, 09:09:00 am
A much better bread day. Kept a close eye on the water and ended up using 225ml instead of 250ml, so not much of a reduction.  The dough was a bit sticky but a combination of lightly oiled hands and a bit of dusting meant kneading went much better.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/x63a16q60shbdup/IMG_20200601_212535918.jpg?raw=1)
Shaped dough about to go in the basket.

230C oven, baked on a pizza stone with an inverted stainless casorole doing cloche duties.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/1xfx2bl78lrcbkm/IMG_20200602_002911227.jpg?raw=1)

I think I could tweak the water content up a wee bit more - the structure is a bit on the dense side but nothing disastrous.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/psmranyj902ymp5/IMG_20200602_071920484.jpg?raw=1)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on June 02, 2020, 09:45:14 am
The Sainsbury white bread flour I used is 13.9% protein.

I got two bags of hastily repackaged Tesco bread flour yesterday with a measily 11.3% protein.  The Allinson plain white I have is 9.9%, so not that far behind.

I wonder if stuff that is packaged as 'bread flour' is a bit like the stuff you used to get called 'whipping cream' - for whipping, you want a high fat content, so double cream (defined as 48% butterfat) is best. You might imagine something called 'whipping cream' would be specially designed for the job and therefore have an even higher fat content, but in fact it was a cheaper alternative to double cream that had just enough fat content to make it whippable - and also be more tolerant to overwhipping without turning to butter. I don't think I've seen 'whipping cream' on sale for some years though.

Likewise, I suspect 'bread flour' is just strong enough to make bread (probably optimised for machines) while also being low enough in protein to result in a nice soft crumb, as opposed to 'strong flour' which has to pass a defined threshold for protein content. Higher protein will also result in chewier bread, which may or may not be a desirable quality.

The flour I got from our local baker friends is just 12.3% - that is just labelled as 'flour' (ie not 'strong' or 'bread'). This is a loaf I made on Sunday, using just this flour, at about 66% hydration:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49961442452_725ea49768.jpg)
- not as much 'spring' as I'd like, but I put that down to not using a cloche/dutch oven, and I suspect I didn't give it quite long enough at the final proving stage either. But the key thing to note is that it held its shape pretty well, no collapsing when turned out of the banneton. The point being that it is possible to achieve a decent loaf with all white flour and high(ish) hydration, even with relatively low protein flour. It's all in the shaping, as I believe Flatus has previously noted.

Also worth noting that stoneground flour will take more water than the bog-standard, highly refined roller-milled stuff - this is because it has higher bran content (and bran absorbs water more readily than germ, which is why wholemeal loaves need much higher water content).

A much better bread day.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on June 02, 2020, 09:59:48 am

Likewise, I suspect 'bread flour' is just strong enough to make bread (probably optimised for machines) while also being low enough in protein to result in a nice soft crumb, as opposed to 'strong flour' which has to pass a defined threshold for protein content. Higher protein will also result in chewier bread, which may or may not be a desirable quality.


Well, duh, yes. With the exception that it is NOT optimised for bread machines, which appear to prefer strong flour, likely because they struggle to knead properly. Those of us who have been home baking for (ever) have noticed that average bread flours have become stronger. Where 12-13% used to be the norm, these days 13-15% appears more usually. When hand kneading, this means you can get away with far less than you once would.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on June 02, 2020, 10:31:55 am
With the exception that it is NOT optimised for bread machines, which appear to prefer strong flour, likely because they struggle to knead properly.

Ah!

Maybe that's why I was never really happy with the results from our bread machine...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hellymedic on June 02, 2020, 08:42:05 pm

I wonder if stuff that is packaged as 'bread flour' is a bit like the stuff you used to get called 'whipping cream' - for whipping, you want a high fat content, so double cream (defined as 48% butterfat) is best. You might imagine something called 'whipping cream' would be specially designed for the job and therefore have an even higher fat content, but in fact it was a cheaper alternative to double cream that had just enough fat content to make it whippable - and also be more tolerant to overwhipping without turning to butter. I don't think I've seen 'whipping cream' on sale for some years though.


[OTish]

Sainsbury's do seem to be selling whipping cream (green pot ~40% fat, as well as single cream-red pot, 18% fat and double cream blue pot 48% fat).
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on June 03, 2020, 07:25:32 am
With the exception that it is NOT optimised for bread machines, which appear to prefer strong flour, likely because they struggle to knead properly.

Ah!

Maybe that's why I was never really happy with the results from our bread machine...

I've switched to Hercules strong white flour milled locally in Driffield. Big difference in the bread machine. My MiL who we have bought some for too (we are doing her shopping in lockdown) says its much better than the supermarket stuff for her manual bread making as well.
For any of you local to North Yorkshire apparently its the flour Thomas' uses in their bakeries.
I'm not sure if you can actually buy it pre-packaged in small bags though, we get it from a scoop shop where they have it delivered in sacks.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on June 03, 2020, 08:40:46 am
Sainsbury's do seem to be selling whipping cream (green pot ~40% fat, as well as single cream-red pot, 18% fat and double cream blue pot 48% fat).

Tbh, I don’t buy cream that often so probably just haven’t noticed it on the shelves (among the million other varieties that are available these days).

Apparently the ‘extra thick’ stuff is just double cream that has been rapidly heated and cooled.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on June 03, 2020, 11:22:27 am
16 kg Canadian flour delivered to work.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/l8zidlctixkbl4e/IMG_20200603_111229876.jpg?raw=1)

I'll find out this evening how hard it is to pedal it home.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hellymedic on June 03, 2020, 03:18:31 pm
Sainsbury's do seem to be selling whipping cream (green pot ~40% fat, as well as single cream-red pot, 18% fat and double cream blue pot 48% fat).

Tbh, I don’t buy cream that often so probably just haven’t noticed it on the shelves (among the million other varieties that are available these days).

Apparently the ‘extra thick’ stuff is just double cream that has been rapidly heated and cooled.

The 'Extra Thick' stuff has the same fat percentage as the standard double cream, I see...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on June 03, 2020, 03:38:44 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/vwwN5wz/20200602-190408-01.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QbbWBbm)

Last night's effort. Been experimenting with using starters at different time intervals after feeding. Used one that hadn't been fed for about 28 hours and was pretty acidic. Tasted nice.

Got one rising in todays cooler weather. Going to prove in in the fridge overnight, see how that affects flavour.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on June 06, 2020, 06:29:26 pm
Last time I made sourdough it was when it was warm and my starter was all frisky. This week it's been all cold again so in an effort to frisk my starter I put it on the top of my yoghurt maker. I forgot to turn it off overnight and thought I'd killed it.

I really want one of these now. I know it's too expensive but it would allow me to incubate starter, prove dough and make yoghurt in the same piece of equipment.
https://brodandtaylor.uk/product/brod-taylor-folding-proofer-slow-cooker-fp-205/

Why doesn't anyone make a slowcooker that you can accurately control the temperature of? And that will go low enough for starter? (yes ok, that is essentialy what Brød & Taylor have done here but...)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on June 07, 2020, 10:44:52 am
Baguettes R us, Pt IV

Par-baked

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KhRoiqI28ug/Xty18l-ZzCI/AAAAAAADVUE/k2ZZCnj-UncS_21E9O7p61fHHABOON7rACPcBGAsYHg/s1600/IMG_20200607_094839.jpg)

T55, 70% moisture, three foldy-style gentle knock backs, pukka baguette tin.

Think I may have got it pretty much nailed, User Acceptance Testing coming soon.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: T42 on June 07, 2020, 11:14:19 am
 :thumbsup:

Our oven isn't deep enough to make full baguettes, so what MrsT turns out are more like bâtards.  "Ma femme fait des bâtards" isn't something I say out loud, though.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on June 07, 2020, 11:56:21 am
"Ma femme fait des bâtards" isn't something I say out loud, though.

I first came across that gag in the Jacques Dutronc song Il est cinq heures, Paris s'éveille - "Les boulangers font des bâtards"
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on June 07, 2020, 12:21:55 pm
Baguettes R us, Pt IV

Par-baked

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KhRoiqI28ug/Xty18l-ZzCI/AAAAAAADVUE/k2ZZCnj-UncS_21E9O7p61fHHABOON7rACPcBGAsYHg/s1600/IMG_20200607_094839.jpg)

T55, 70% moisture, three foldy-style gentle knock backs, pukka baguette tin.

Think I may have got it pretty much nailed, User Acceptance Testing coming soon.

How did you proof them? I got a couple of bags of T55 with my last Shipton Mill order, so am tempted to give them a go. I don't have a baguette tin, mind, so am pondering if I can do demi-baguettes under a cloche.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: T42 on June 07, 2020, 04:36:21 pm
"Ma femme fait des bâtards" isn't something I say out loud, though.

I first came across that gag in the Jacques Dutronc song Il est cinq heures, Paris s'éveille - "Les boulangers font des bâtards"

That's what I was thinking of. Great song.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on June 07, 2020, 07:49:28 pm
"Ma femme fait des bâtards" isn't something I say out loud, though.

I first came across that gag in the Jacques Dutronc song Il est cinq heures, Paris s'éveille - "Les boulangers font des bâtards"

That's what I was thinking of. Great song.

I'll just file that away.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on June 07, 2020, 09:13:21 pm
First loaf with my Manitoba "as strong as a lumberjack" flour.

Used the Flatus recipe and kneaded by hand started sticky but got better as the gluten developed. Got adventurous and shaped it to fit my long proving basket. Shaping still needs practice and the dough stuck a bit as I tipped it onto the baking sheet, causing a bit of a collapse. However, oven spring to the rescue:

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/hpejwny2lrv8gia/IMG_20200606_230957127.jpg?raw=1)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on June 07, 2020, 09:53:06 pm


How did you proof them? I got a couple of bags of T55 with my last Shipton Mill order, so am tempted to give them a go. I don't have a baguette tin, mind, so am pondering if I can do demi-baguettes under a cloche.

Do you mean in the tin? Just with a tea towel over them. By the time you get to that point, the dough has moved away from being a 70% moisture sloppy bastard.  The consistency is developed before you put it into the tin for the last proving. Multiple gentle knock-backs after 20 min seems to be the way to go. I don't use my oven for raising, and allow it to dry out slightly .


Here's the fully baked and the texture I've ended up with. Room for improvement, still, but I'm happy with it so far (and the crust is PROPER)

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-luKciESLleQ/Xt1TZcJI0dI/AAAAAAADVWc/grCfoDQ1qS4p3c3of91LIJ_Xz5-ChCV0wCPcBGAsYHg/s1600/IMG_20200607_121412.jpg)


(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eXHVKFKiV4M/Xt1TZfhS9WI/AAAAAAADVWc/kqDXzkGwCdsbgg-ppMOeIATpK_NGxXWRwCPcBGAsYHg/s1600/IMG_20200607_121835.jpg)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on June 08, 2020, 09:09:45 am
so how much does the panel reckon I should start tweaking it down by?

Try 60%. Which may not be as huge a difference in the actual water content as it sounds - maybe a couple of tablespoons worth, depending on the size of your loaf.

I've had decent results at 55% - never as light and airy as the higher hydration levels but much, much easier to handle.

Who wants huge holes in their bread anyway? You need a bit of structure to hold the butter.


Right. 67pc (there is no symbol on this phone, WTF?) hydration experiment has begun....
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on June 08, 2020, 10:05:25 am
Another tip for increasing hydration whilst keeping the dough workable is to use 'bassinage': keep back some of the water (mix the initial dough at 60-65% hydration), and sprinkle it in when you do later stretch-and-folds as the gluten develops.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on June 08, 2020, 05:21:13 pm
I've just attempted to shape a batard. Not tremendously successfully but we'll see what it turns out like.
Usually the 72% dough I just give a last stretch & fold before pouring it into the banneton.

I really noticed the difference in stretching distance with this lower hydration.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on June 08, 2020, 06:26:05 pm
It kept more of it's height than usual when I turned it out of the banneton. Up until I slashed the top.   :-\
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on June 09, 2020, 08:04:19 am
Slight failure this morning. I have been making 50% rye 50% strong white loaves successfully in the Panasonic for a while. Today I tried swapping out the light rye flour for dark rye using teh same program and the top was collapsed and some flour in one corner wasn't incorporated, just on the outside the inside was fine. The loaf texture is fine.
does dark rye need more water or fat or perhaps less ?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on June 09, 2020, 09:05:23 am
Less, I think
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Little Jim on June 09, 2020, 09:46:02 am
I am looking for some suggestions for bread making on the BBQ on the off-chance that the weather could be good enough to get the BBQ out this weekend.

Mrs LJ is the household baker, I'm generally not allowed any where near the oven.  She makes most of our bread and from time to time does a batch of basic white dough which then gets divided up into "individual" portions and frozen,  These then get resurrected from time to time for such things as "nan" bread to be cooked in the frying pan (yeah, I know, but it is still infinitely better than the crap Sainsbury's frozen ones), pizza bases and garlic bread.  I've recently been trying to do some on the BBQ with fairly underwhelming results. I have been flattening the dough out to a sort of small pizza base size, letting it prove for a bit and then cooking on the grill - it is a Webber charcoal BBQ so does do a sort of oven effect. The first batch was more akin to a Jakob's Cream Cracker, not burnt but a bit (lot) over cooked.  Second was starting to get a bit black on the outside but only just cooked in the middle but much better.  For my next attempt I am wondering about keeping the coals over to one side of the cooking area and using indirect heat to cook the bread but I would appreciate some help and ideas please.

Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on June 09, 2020, 11:12:37 am
I think you probably need something like a pizza stone/steel to preheat and act as a heat sink - a cast-iron frying pan would do. Not sure how well the toppings would cook, but worth a go I'd say.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Little Jim on June 09, 2020, 12:39:49 pm
Thanks Jakob, although re-reading what I wrote I didn't make it very clear.  I am not trying to do pizza on the BBQ; what I'm after is some sort of bread to eat with the cooked BBQ meat and veg, so any sort of "flat bread" I guess.  Either individual "pitta bread" sized bread or a larger one that can be cut up.  I guess it is my technique , such as it is, that is the problem.  I am wondering if it would work better with indirect heat rather than straight over the coals.  The lid thermometer does register about 160 deg F generally, although I can get it hotter by altering the air flow a bit.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on June 09, 2020, 01:00:05 pm
The lid thermometer does register about 160 deg F generally, although I can get it hotter by altering the air flow a bit.

Are you sure? That's only about 70 deg C. A Weber Kettle BBQ should be able to get up to over 550 deg F (nearly 300 deg C) if you let it rip. Mine will bury the needle against the stop at the hot end with decent charcoal and all the vents open fully.

Never tried making any kind of bread on it though so cant help there I'm afraid.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on June 09, 2020, 01:01:55 pm
I'd use a piece of oiled foil to balance heat & burn to go for pita style (heat from one side) as opposed to tandoor naan (effing hot all about)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on June 09, 2020, 01:03:04 pm
You could try this flatbread recipe.

https://www.weber.com/AU/en/recipes/pizza-and-bread/homemade-barbecued-flatbreads/weber-1902536.html

Other things I have tried from Weber's website tend to work OK.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on June 09, 2020, 01:16:06 pm
Ah, gotcha. If you've got a cast-iron pan/griddle I'd try it on there as per that Weber recipe above, but Ham's suggestion of oiled foil and indirect heat should work as well.

In general, flatbread should be reasonably forgiving - in a Neopolitan oven, pizza cooks in 60-90 seconds at ~450°C, but there you've got radiant heat all the way round (I guess a tandoor must be very similar when cooking naan). The biggest problem is going to be if it's pure radiant heat from the coals on one side and not much on the other; even there I'd have thought you should be able to manage ok as long as the breads are reasonably thin and you flip them in time.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Little Jim on June 09, 2020, 03:23:31 pm
The lid thermometer does register about 160 deg F generally, although I can get it hotter by altering the air flow a bit.

Are you sure? That's only about 70 deg C. A Weber Kettle BBQ should be able to get up to over 550 deg F (nearly 300 deg C) if you let it rip. Mine will bury the needle against the stop at the hot end with decent charcoal and all the vents open fully.

Never tried making any kind of bread on it though so cant help there I'm afraid.

 :facepalm: I'm an idiot!  You are quite right, I didn't look at the gauge properly, it is generally at about 230 deg C (just past 12 o'clock), and yes, open everything up and it all starts glowing red.

Thank you for the suggestion from the Weber website - I had forgotten that they do quite a few recipes and some of the bread ones look to be suitable.  I will try a piece of foil next as Jakob and Ham have suggested or I might even borrow one of Mrs LJ's small baking trays and use that

Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on June 09, 2020, 03:46:40 pm
Ideally you want something with a bit of thermal mass, hence the suggestion of a cast iron pan.

Careful if you use a pizza stone - ours cracked when I put it on the barbecue.

I was quite impressed that our Ikea barbecue got up to 450° - until I realised I was reading the Fahrenheit side of the scale...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on June 09, 2020, 03:51:59 pm
And I wouldn't use any kind of non-stick on a barbecue - plain steel/aluminium would be best.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on June 09, 2020, 04:40:45 pm
This was yesterday's results of the hydration reduction experiment
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49987761598_7f373d2002.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jafkYA)2020-06-09_04-07-09 (https://flic.kr/p/2jafkYA) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49988524147_dfbca5db89.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jajfDZ)2020-06-09_04-07-24 (https://flic.kr/p/2jajfDZ) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on June 12, 2020, 04:21:57 pm
Taste nice?


This.....

(https://i.ibb.co/4Nfkz1T/20200612-134211.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0JX5TsM)
host image online (https://imgbb.com/)

....was a cock-up from start to finish. Starter was 100% rye, which doesnt take water so well, and because I'd forgotten the starter was rye the dough was super wet. Then I'd left it too late and it hadn't risen, so I just left it in the mixing bowl overnight at room temp.

Shaping was a nightmare because of the long prove and the wet dough, hence flour lump you can see in loaf.  Proved it in basket and it stuck to basket and ripped skin when it inverted it onto peel.  I literally poured it into the casserole, and the only reason I baked it was that the oven had preheated, and I thought cleaning the wet dough out would be harder than if I went ahead and baked it and at least ended up drying it out. Bin job because it was a disaster, but an easier clean up.

Anyway.....I think you've probably guessed that it turned out to be the most delicious bread I have ever eaten in my life.

Currently trying to reproduce all of yesterday's mistakes because the loaf got eaten within an hour.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on June 13, 2020, 06:49:37 pm
For today's experiment I'm sticking with the lower hydration but rather than whipping out the silicon sheet after 15 mins I'm going to leave it there for the whole baking time. My reasoning being that it would dry the bread out a bit when it was made on a stone, but now I'm using a steel it shouldn't make any difference.
It will also make less mess (I usually end up with rye flour flying everywhere when I wheech the sheet out) and keep the oven temperature more stable.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on June 14, 2020, 01:51:29 pm
I did indeed make less mess. The bottom of the loaf seems a bit harder to cut through than the rest, maybe a bit chewier, but not inedible.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50004367168_cb31c0389a.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jbHsew)2020-06-14_01-32-20 (https://flic.kr/p/2jbHsew) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on June 15, 2020, 05:17:20 pm
On Friday, we had some burgers that needed eating up, so I quickly rustled up some buns to put them in...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50008960913_a5d2c3dd6a_b.jpg)

Really good. Got the recipe from BBC Good Food. Highly recommended. Soft and light, yet sturdy enough to not disintegrate when soaked in burger juices. The dough is enriched but not the full-on brioche nonsense, which I've yet to be convinced is a good match for a burger.
https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/soft-burger-buns

Topped the burgers with a bit of cheese and token greenery, and knocked up some chips to go on the side.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50009486656_5b327eecb7_b.jpg)

It was probably quicker to make from scratch than it would have been to queue at McDonald's.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: nicknack on June 15, 2020, 05:43:09 pm
Agreed. Brioches are totally crap for burgers. I completely fail to understand why they've caught on. I can only guess that they're cheaper.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on June 15, 2020, 05:46:07 pm
Agreed. Brioches are totally crap for burgers. I completely fail to understand why they've caught on. I can only guess that they're cheaper.

Because USA.

They like to pour melted butter on the cut side as well.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on June 15, 2020, 05:58:14 pm
Mmm. Hungry now. Already had a burger this week tho.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on June 15, 2020, 06:12:46 pm
Agreed. Brioches are totally crap for burgers. I completely fail to understand why they've caught on. I can only guess that they're cheaper.

I suspect it's just because they're a bit fancy, and people like bling. Can't imagine they're cheaper with all the butter and eggs.

A quick bit of googling turned up this, which I think is on the money:
https://www.thedailymeal.com/eat/putting-your-burger-brioche-bun-terrible-idea
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on June 15, 2020, 06:46:22 pm
No way were those hipster sour dough, careful you are on a slippery slope (but you probably don't need two hands to drink water)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on June 15, 2020, 08:08:41 pm
No way were those hipster sour dough, careful you are on a slippery slope (but you probably don't need two hands to drink water)
Well spotted. I did contemplate the sourdough option but it was a last minute decision to make them and I just wanted them done quick. Might try a sourdough version some other time.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: ian on June 15, 2020, 08:24:09 pm
Really, not even served on a slate with a small metal plant pot for the chips.

Some US places take the brioche concept further, you can burgers in croissants and, for bonus points, inserted into sliced donuts. It's a deviant practice. If they swore and fornicated more, it truly wouldn't be necessary.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on June 15, 2020, 08:54:13 pm
Really, not even served on a slate with a small metal plant pot for the chips.

Why do you think I’m posting the pics here rather than on Instagram? I don’t want the hipster police after me.

Quote
Some US places take the brioche concept further, you can burgers in croissants and, for bonus points, inserted into sliced donuts. It's a deviant practice. If they swore and fornicated more, it truly wouldn't be necessary.

I’ve seen the doughnut thing and you’re right - you’d have to be seriously repressed to come up with that as a means of catharsis. No wonder they’re all in therapy.

Mind you, today I worked on a feature that included a vegan recipe for sweet potato cooked in Coca Cola and the author was British.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: ian on June 15, 2020, 09:40:44 pm
If you go to Atlanta they cook everything in Coca Cola (as a homage to the local brew, I suppose). By the standards of southern marinades, it's relatively healthy.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on June 16, 2020, 06:11:17 pm
Yeah saw they wanky chips
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Davef on June 16, 2020, 07:47:19 pm
Agreed. Brioches are totally crap for burgers. I completely fail to understand why they've caught on. I can only guess that they're cheaper.

I suspect it's just because they're a bit fancy, and people like bling. Can't imagine they're cheaper with all the butter and eggs.

A quick bit of googling turned up this, which I think is on the money:
https://www.thedailymeal.com/eat/putting-your-burger-brioche-bun-terrible-idea
Reading thru the linked article it says “no Frenchman would use brioche for a sandwich”, but most pre packaged filled baguettes in France are made using baguette viennoise as normal French bread goes stale too quickly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on June 17, 2020, 10:15:45 am
Reading thru the linked article it says “no Frenchman would use brioche for a sandwich”, but most pre packaged filled baguettes in France are made using baguette viennoise as normal French bread goes stale too quickly.

Baguette viennoise is not the same thing as brioche.

There are a few details I would quibble with in the piece. I wouldn't claim to know whether or not it's true that "no Frenchman would use brioche for a sandwich". That seems a bit too definitive a statement. But it's generally sound on the reasons for not using brioche buns for burgers.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on June 17, 2020, 10:52:18 am
Can anyone point me to a reliable recipe for bread made from spelt flour with no yeast? I do have some normal plain flour that could be included but not enough for a loaf.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on June 17, 2020, 11:24:20 am
f
l
o
u
r

Or, Foxtrot Lima Oscar Uniform Romeo

Does that go some way to helping?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on June 17, 2020, 12:45:01 pm
f
l
o
u
r

Or, Foxtrot Lima Oscar Uniform Romeo

Does that go some way to helping?

Not in the slightest. Did you think it would? Spelt is not the same as bread flour, and the lack of yeast introduces other differences.

Hence my request in case someone else has a recipe they have used and is known to work, and I’ll also google it. Thanks a lot though.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on June 17, 2020, 01:04:10 pm
When you say without yeast, do you mean a quickbread or a sourdough? And is it wholemeal or white spelt? Spelt tends to make for a more active sourdough culture, so you may have to adjust amounts or proofing times, but (as for any other wholemeal) a pure wholemeal spelt loaf is likely to be quite dense.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on June 17, 2020, 01:14:38 pm
f
l
o
u
r

Or, Foxtrot Lima Oscar Uniform Romeo

Does that go some way to helping?

Not in the slightest. Did you think it would?

It would have been of inestimable assistance had you been wondering how flour was spelt.

As far as it goes, I cant see it being much different in whatever non-yeast recipe than normal (hard wheat) flour, except it probably won't hold shape as well. (although final texture will be different)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on June 17, 2020, 01:16:39 pm
An experiment this afternoon. Just put some 50% rye 50% white in the bread maker but using cheap Lidl strong white flour. Lets see how it comes out.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on June 17, 2020, 01:20:11 pm
Spelt is not the same as bread flour

No, but from what I've read, you can generally use it as a substitute for wheat flour.

The Fresh Loaf forum would be a good place to ask this kind of question. People there seem to get on fine using it instead of wheat flour, and it seems to work well when I've used it as an adjunct in my loaves (never more than 20% of total flour content though).

This is what it says in their baker's handbook:
"Spelt flour: Spelt, which is also known as farro, is an ancient grain that is a cousin to wheat. It contains enough gluten to make a light loaf of bread, but absorbs less water than wheat, and so requires a lower hydration. The gluten is also somewhat less resiliant than that of wheat, and, as such, one needs to be careful when using a mixer, as it's easy to over-develop."
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/handbook/other-flours

Here's a recipe for spelt soda bread - though I've not tried it so not a personal recommendation:
https://www.dovesfarm.co.uk/recipes/wholemeal-spelt-soda-bread
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on June 17, 2020, 03:50:41 pm
Thanks. I saw that Dove’s Farm recipe but elected to go for this Jamie Oliver version purely on the basis of the photos of the finished item (and I happen to have some buttermilk). JO’s looks more like an Irish soda bread to me, and indeed that is what has emerged from the oven. Haven’t tried it yet.

https://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/bread-recipes/simple-soda-bread/

Edited to add - ended up like this and tastes pretty good I must say.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/pch6temu7f47owm/2020-06-17%2015.55.05.jpg?dl=0)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on June 17, 2020, 03:52:39 pm
It would have been of inestimable assistance had you been wondering how flour was spelt.


Apols for sense of humour failure.

As a flour it seems to take up liquid differently. The difference in using spelt vs normal flour might be more pronounced in a yeasted loaf, but for this soda bread it seemed no different to plain flour. A wetter stickier dough, perhaps.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on June 17, 2020, 03:58:42 pm
If you look back to Sep 2015 (page8?) of this thread, I was experimenting with Spelt, Rye & buttermilk
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on June 17, 2020, 04:10:41 pm
I happen to have some buttermilk

#winning

Quote
Edited to add - ended up like this and tastes pretty good I must say.

Mmmm, does look good.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on June 17, 2020, 10:28:15 pm
One thing I found was that even though I made my cross cuts very deep - almost through the loaf - it just welded itself back together again as it is quite a wet dough. Still seems to have baked through very evenly.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on June 21, 2020, 10:26:14 am
I've just seen that Waitrose is stocking Marriage's flour in 16kg bags, cheaper than Marriages are selling it themselves. Only 3 types, plain, SR and "Premier white bread flour" (I can't see that one on the Marriage's website) at £10, £10 and £12.

I don't need any yet but...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on June 23, 2020, 11:25:35 am
I've just seen that Waitrose is stocking Marriage's flour in 16kg bags, cheaper than Marriages are selling it themselves. Only 3 types, plain, SR and "Premier white bread flour" (I can't see that one on the Marriage's website) at £10, £10 and £12.

I don't need any yet but...

And, as if by magic, they are not!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on June 23, 2020, 06:49:33 pm
<sob!>
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50037271073_cf53b3e6d7.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jeC6qe)2020-06-23_06-36-23 (https://flic.kr/p/2jeC6qe) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/), on Flickr

Less of a sourdough loaf. More of a flying saucer, FFS.  :facepalm:

No idea why. It was a new brand of flour but surely wholemeal stoneground is wholemeal stoneground (old was Sainsbo's and somewhat old, new is Gilchesters). Other possible option is that in between folds I left it on the worktop rather than in the bowl (with the bowl placed on top) and when I came back it had flowed all over the top, maybe it overstretched the gluten. Although when I gave it the final prove it sprung back alright when prodded.
 :-\
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on June 23, 2020, 08:57:01 pm

That looks like it's going to be delicious. Good spring, nice crust.

Fuck. Listen to me  ;D
I dropped in to a friend's garden at the weekend. We chatted, as you do, about sourdough. The last bit of Flatus' remark may have been uttered...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on June 28, 2020, 07:37:59 pm
<sob!>
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50037271073_cf53b3e6d7.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jeC6qe)2020-06-23_06-36-23 (https://flic.kr/p/2jeC6qe) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/), on Flickr

Less of a sourdough loaf. More of a flying saucer, FFS.  :facepalm:

No idea why. It was a new brand of flour but surely wholemeal stoneground is wholemeal stoneground (old was Sainsbo's and somewhat old, new is Gilchesters). Other possible option is that in between folds I left it on the worktop rather than in the bowl (with the bowl placed on top) and when I came back it had flowed all over the top, maybe it overstretched the gluten. Although when I gave it the final prove it sprung back alright when prodded.
 :-\


The saga continues. I started today's ferment with even less water, looked okay initially but it really wasn't after a while. I ended up having an attack of the screaming abjabs at it and Pingu came through to make sure I was alright  :-[
I ended up kneading more wholemeal flour in (it was that or throw it in the bin in a strop). The end result was less pancakey than last week but not as good as the previous effort with different flour.

So I did some research on the flour and it suggests that the wholemeal should adsorb lots of water, which makes me wonder if it's the strong white that is poor. So as an experiment I made a bog std yeast raised loaf with 100% wholemeal as per their recipe. It did indeed absorb lots of water (70% as per the recipe) without being wet or hard to handle, the dough rose nicely and although it's a bit dense looking that's not really a surprise for wholemeal.
So my attention on now turns to the strong white. According to the label it's 12.7% which isn't super strong but should be good enough, no?

I'd go back to my usual flour if I could get hold of the stuff  :facepalm:
Title: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on June 29, 2020, 07:56:35 am
So my attention on now turns to the strong white. According to the label it's 12.7% which isn't super strong but should be good enough, no?

As noted earlier, the sack I got from my local baker is 12.3%. It generally gives satisfactory results, though never as much lift as I’d like. (NB it doesn’t say ‘strong’ anywhere on the sack.)

Will try to get some of the Marriages Manitoba next time I need to stock up.

Tesco had plentiful supplies of spelt flour, both white and wholemeal, when I was in there the other day. But still no rye.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: andrewc on June 29, 2020, 06:46:54 pm

2nd attempt.  Basic Delia recipe with flour & yeast from my original Brexshit stash that’s a year past its “use by” date.


Nice crusty crust & dense chewy centre.   Not as good as my local specialist place,  but better than the supermarket.    I'm thinking of a handful of chopped olives in the next batch , or some cubed Boursin... :P


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbsNWUaWkAE0B1r?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on June 29, 2020, 09:07:00 pm
Apparently there isn't a flour shortage what there is a flour packaging bottleneck somewhere.
So if you have a scoop shop nearby than they have no problem buying sacks of flour and tend to be fully stocked, its just the normal size bags of flour that keep running out.

Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: andrewc on July 01, 2020, 12:49:40 pm
How are people storing their bread ?  My last effort is wrapped in cling film, but I’ve read that’s not ideal.  I’d rather not sacrifice counter space to a bread bin.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on July 01, 2020, 01:28:04 pm
I have a bread bin, but if you don't want to sacrifice counter space, you could get all French about it and have a linen bread bag hanging up somewhere.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: fuaran on July 01, 2020, 02:46:38 pm
Wrap it in a tea towel.
Or could sew a bag from tea towels if you want.
Or get a cotton shopping bag, and sew a drawstring on the top.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: andrewc on July 01, 2020, 02:52:51 pm
Hmmmmm.......   old pillow case might do the trick....?   
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on July 01, 2020, 03:05:02 pm
Sliced in the freezer

(also, part baked in the freezer)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on July 01, 2020, 05:21:57 pm
Sliced in the freezer

That too.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Kim on July 01, 2020, 05:24:31 pm
Stomach.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on July 01, 2020, 06:25:47 pm
Stomach.
Is the right answer.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on July 01, 2020, 10:33:37 pm
Apparently there isn't a flour shortage what there is a flour packaging bottleneck somewhere.
So if you have a scoop shop nearby than they have no problem buying sacks of flour and tend to be fully stocked, its just the normal size bags of flour that keep running out.

My understanding is that 95% of the flour sold in this country is in bulk or commercial bakers. Only 5% finds its way into 1.5kg bags (or smaller) for supermarkets. There simply isn't the capacity to put enough flour in small bags for the current demand.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: perpetual dan on July 02, 2020, 07:39:45 pm
I tried leaving my bread out to rise overnight last night. It rose much more than overnight in the fridge plus a couple of hours out in the morning, but was too sticky. Still tastes good, and a looser texture.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on July 05, 2020, 09:04:09 pm
I has "crunchy" flour from Thomas's (a higher class lard version of Greggs localised to North and East Yorkshire). I will give it a whirl tomorrow.
I think they get their flour from Bradshaw's of Driffield which is promising as Brashaws's Hercules strong white is very good.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on July 09, 2020, 08:35:26 am
Update on the below. I finally got round to baking this. From the packet its a mix of strong white and granary with with added malted bits.
Used the standard no 4 program in the Panasonic and its turned out great. I think this will make a good loaf for sandwiches.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: aidan.f on July 13, 2020, 10:41:37 pm
Mrs H. has  had  some very successful sourdough experimentation and I am feeling very well fed. She's away for a week so now it is my turn to try. Took a spoonful of starter from the fridge and it is now fermenting visibly after only 12 hours. Out textbook instructions (Modern Sourdough: Eshkeri ) are to at 24 hours refresh it yet again - 10g from this pot into a new starter for another 12 hours. It's then implied, but not clear that you repeat this 12 hour cycle once again. Why the process of successive dilution of an active culture into fresh flour and re-fermentation? seems a bit of a waste. Or is this some sort of Homeopathy?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on July 13, 2020, 10:45:10 pm
The more bugs you have growing, the quicker they're going to use the food up. Exponential growth and all that.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: aidan.f on July 13, 2020, 11:23:56 pm
Yes... but each serving does not get any bigger!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on July 14, 2020, 12:58:21 am
I think the argument for multiple feedings before use is that a starter that's been merrily multiplying away is more active; if the bread recipe calls for smaller amounts of starter and shorter bulk ferments, then you want the yeasts to be in peak condition. I've never really found it necessary; I'll refresh the starter once when I take it out of the fridge, but as I use an overnight sponge and slow proofing for my standard sourdough loaf, I figure this is all it needs.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2020, 08:18:38 am
Why the process of successive dilution of an active culture into fresh flour and re-fermentation? seems a bit of a waste. Or is this some sort of Homeopathy?

It's not dilution, it's feeding. And once fed, the microbes will start to multiply. If you feed it then put it somewhere warm, 3-4 hours later it might contain triple the number of microbes.

I only keep a small amount in reserve between bakes (about 50g) so a couple of feed cycles will build it up to the quantity I need for my recipe, with some left over to go back in the fridge when I'm finished.

I try to use the starter when it is at the peak of its activity because I find it gives more predictable results. All this means is that after feeding, I will wait until it has roughly doubled in volume before using it. And try to use it before it starts sinking again, because that means it is past its peak. I'm far from scientific about it though - and the timing of each stage often depends on how busy I am.
Title: The Bread Thread
Post by: Davef on July 14, 2020, 08:36:50 am
I believe it is to do with the yeast/bacteria ratio. You are diluting the slower growing bacteria whilst breeding fast growing yeast.

Edit: and also diluting the acidic byproducts of earlier activity.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: aidan.f on July 14, 2020, 11:40:04 pm
thanks everyone  - interesting.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on July 19, 2020, 06:58:16 pm
Stepping away from sourdough for a moment, I had a go at a peshwari naan recipe that was in The Guardian the other day.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/4x9jlzlh00r3m8n/IMG_20200718_202659220.jpg?raw=1)

Unlike the previous naan recipe I've used, this was oven baked, not fried.  Taste was good, but it rose more than I expected.  I think I'll try it again and pay more attention to the shaping/flattening of the dough.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on July 19, 2020, 07:51:43 pm
I believe it is to do with the yeast/bacteria ratio. You are diluting the slower growing bacteria whilst breeding fast growing yeast.

Any healthy sourdough contains a balance of both yeast and bacteria. My (limited) understanding is that temperature and hydration are the biggest influences on that balance. I think the general idea is to create an environment where the good microbes can thrive and crowd out the toxic microbes.

This is interesting, if fairly superficial, reading:
https://modernistcuisine.com/mc/sourdough-science/

Personally, I'm quite slapdash with my sourdough maintenance regime but the unpredictability is part of the fun. As long as I get something edible out of the process, I don't mind if it's not Instagram-perfect. It pretty much always tastes better than any shop-bought bread.

It would be interesting to get a laboratory analysis of my sourdough, though obviously there's every chance the composition would have changed by the time the results came back.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on July 19, 2020, 09:37:46 pm
This week I managed to get some Sainsbo's strong white bread flour.
Huzzah!
I thought it was the Gilchrists wholemeal that was making my bread shite, but it seems it was the Mungoswells white.
(I wonder if if was plain white mislabelled as strong white)

Anyway, now I can actually make a bog standard yeasted loaf again I can get back on the sourdough horse.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on July 20, 2020, 09:59:05 pm
I made some Chelsea buns the other day. As usual, they unravelled during their final rise and, although they tasted fine, were disappointingly misshapen.

It then dawned on my why. When you buy commercially-produced Chelsea buns, they have been packed together so tightly in the tin that they haven't got room to spread out and unravel as they rise, but they must rise vertically, and that keeps them tightly-wound. I'm going to do another batch in the near future.

And something I've discovered about our breadmaker, a Panasonic. On the last two occasions that I've used a recipe involving only a small amount of dough (250g flour in each case) it has come within a gnat's crotchet of leaping off the worktop. I normally make loaves involving at least 400g of flour and we don't seem to get that problem. This seems to be a corollary to the partially-filled washing machine leaping across the kitchen. My next batch of Chelsea buns will be a double quantity of "enriched" dough - so called because it has an egg in it.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on July 21, 2020, 08:49:12 am
packed together so tightly in the tin that they haven't got room to spread out and unravel as they rise, but they must rise vertically

Tbh, I thought that was always their USP.

They’re a Georgian invention, originally sold at the imaginatively named Chelsea Bun House.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on July 21, 2020, 09:44:44 am
Back on sourdough. I slash away with a razor blade but don’t get the eruption and crispy bit that tragic hipsters crave. Leastways not at the slashing site- my last two loaves have erupted elsewhere on the crust, making odd shaped loaves. I use The Flatus Recipe, 220c fan oven, dish of water for humidity. Good amount of oven spring, batard  shape loaf. Should I be slashing deeper?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 21, 2020, 09:53:21 am
245⁰c.  Put dough in casserole dish. 30 mins lid on, then  20-25 with lid off depending on how dark a crust you'd like. Slash with razor blade at very shallow angle to bread.

Only this is the authentic recipe with the Flatus Seal of Approval.

Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on July 21, 2020, 10:28:09 am
Back on sourdough. I slash away with a razor blade but don’t get the eruption and crispy bit that tragic hipsters crave. Leastways not at the slashing site- my last two loaves have erupted elsewhere on the crust, making odd shaped loaves.

I get this all the time. It’s because the top crust is setting before it has had a chance to do its exploding thing. But there is still rising power in the dough, so it needs to find a release elsewhere...

If you’re not using a cloche or Dutch oven, you might find you get better results by reducing the temperature to 200.

You can also try misting the surface of the loaf with water before putting it in the oven.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hatler on July 21, 2020, 10:41:06 am
Back on sourdough. I slash away with a razor blade but don’t get the eruption and crispy bit that tragic hipsters crave. Leastways not at the slashing site- my last two loaves have erupted elsewhere on the crust, making odd shaped loaves. I use The Flatus Recipe, 220c fan oven, dish of water for humidity. Good amount of oven spring, batard  shape loaf. Should I be slashing deeper?
That was Thatcher's tactic, wasn't it ?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on July 21, 2020, 01:38:15 pm
That was Thatcher's tactic, wasn't it ?

You are Ben Elton AICMFP
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hatler on July 21, 2020, 01:47:27 pm
That was Thatcher's tactic, wasn't it ?

You are Ben Elton AICMFP
:-)  Many many years ago I was mistaken for him (though how on earth is completely beyond me.)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on July 25, 2020, 04:02:07 pm
Sort of bready

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50151703507_3e669bebb6.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jpJAce)2020-07-25_04-00-56 (https://flic.kr/p/2jpJAce) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: SteveC on July 26, 2020, 06:27:20 pm
My new grain mill arrived on Friday and today was the first chance I had to use it.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50155840761_3025e85f75_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jq6N4c)
Grain mill (https://flic.kr/p/2jq6N4c) by Steve Cunio (https://www.flickr.com/photos/stevecunio/), on Flickr
First flour coming out of the mill (apart from the small amount run through first to clear out any debris from the stones).

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50155841226_7c119f571c_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jq6Ncd)
Grain mill (https://flic.kr/p/2jq6Ncd) by Steve Cunio (https://www.flickr.com/photos/stevecunio/), on Flickr
And the batch of bread from said flour. It's 100% wholemeal wheat. Conventional yeast, not sourdough. Poolish or sponge method.


Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on July 27, 2020, 09:18:31 am
Pardon me for being dim, but how can a wheat grain not be 100% wholemeal?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: SteveC on July 27, 2020, 09:41:39 am
True. But I also have spelt and rye to play with.
We tasted the bread this morning. MrsC commented that it was nice,  but that she couldn’t tell the difference from our normal wholemeal.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on July 27, 2020, 10:51:59 am
I was going to ask, why? Is there any benefit, health wise or flavour?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on July 27, 2020, 10:57:46 am
Is it like grinding your own coffee beans?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: SteveC on July 27, 2020, 12:52:08 pm
To be honest, it's a toy. A friend recommended it and MrsC suggested we might get one. This was just as lockdown was starting, I'd had a bonus from work and it seemed like a good idea. It will be most useful for some of the recipes we make for re-enacting demonstrations. It can be easier to get whole barley than barley flour at times, for instance.
But mostly it's a toy.

I will keep the panel informed it we do find any real advantages.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on July 29, 2020, 01:58:05 pm
Is it like grinding your own coffee beans?

Isn't that more to do with getting the right grind for your coffee maker for the best extraction?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on July 29, 2020, 03:23:49 pm
Is it like grinding your own coffee beans?

Isn't that more to do with getting the right grind for your coffee maker for the best extraction?

Exactly. I'm assuming the grain grinder is adjustable for required level of coarseness - from semolina to tipo 00.

Grinding your own coffee beans is also to do with freshness, but I imagine that's less of a concern with grains for breadmaking.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: SteveC on July 29, 2020, 03:41:38 pm
It is adjustable.  Not sure it will go quite as fine as 00 but it’s pretty good.
More experimentation is needed.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on August 05, 2020, 06:57:10 pm
Online baking suppliers seem to be more or less back to normal stock levels.

I just ordered a 16kg sack of Shipton Mill No.4 (https://www.shipton-mill.com/bulk-shop/untreated-organic-white-flour-no-4.htm), which I've seen recommended elsewhere. I didn't go for the Canadian because I've read that while it has higher protein content, so gives a more impressive rise, it's not as good as the No.4 for flavour. I might try the Canadian another time though.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on August 07, 2020, 10:16:36 am
I just ordered a 16kg sack of Shipton Mill No.4 (https://www.shipton-mill.com/bulk-shop/untreated-organic-white-flour-no-4.htm)...

And the delivery arrived this morning, which is surprisingly quick - especially given that the courier was Parcelfarce.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: perpetual dan on August 08, 2020, 08:52:53 am
I’m loving the shipton mill light malt house at the moment, with rye in my starter.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: perpetual dan on August 15, 2020, 01:14:37 pm
I had a first go at Ciabatta today. It's tasty, but the recipe had me baking on paper which has stuck to about half the underside. I guess more flour or a dryer outside are the answer.
(https://betweenbeyond.files.wordpress.com/2020/08/img_20200815_131045.jpg)

Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on August 29, 2020, 06:17:13 pm
Today I upped my cinnamon bun game by using a piece of thread to cut the 'sausage' into bun slices.
Much neater and made my inner control freak happy.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50281957282_d21fd2c0e2.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jBfb6Y)2020-08-29_01-12-51 (https://flic.kr/p/2jBfb6Y) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on August 30, 2020, 10:57:14 am
I took delivery of another 16kg of malted brown flour from Marriages earlier this week. Best before date 21st April 2021. I'll be surprised if it survives into the new year.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: SteveC on August 30, 2020, 12:08:51 pm
Ground a couple of pounds of rye meal just now, which is currently making a sponge/poolish for some ~50:50 rye-wholewheat bread.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on August 30, 2020, 08:27:10 pm
Foolishly scaled up my standard bread recipe to make enough dough for three large loaves this afternoon. Thought it would be more efficient than making one loaf at a time, but I underestimated how much hard work it is to knead that much dough by hand.

Also, I really need to invest in decent baker's scales and a very large mixing/proving bowl if I want to do that again.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on August 30, 2020, 10:06:47 pm
Also, I really need to invest in decent baker's scales and a very large mixing/proving bowl if I want to do that again.

https://www.bakerybits.co.uk/kd8000-bakery-scales.html

I can recommend these - not cheap for what they are, but have thus far stood up to abuse pretty well, and the ability to use a wall wart is nice. Haven't used the baker's percentage function except to play with, but if you were doing lots of scaling up/down or using inconsistent amounts of flour I can see that being helpful.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on August 30, 2020, 10:12:44 pm
Those are the exact ones I already had my eye on. Good to know they're recommended, thanks!  :thumbsup:

(Also looked at some Salter scales with a 15kg capacity on Nisbets, but they're four times the price. Nisbets do have some seriously big (https://www.nisbets.co.uk/borgeat-round-bottom-whipping-bowl-400mm/k559) mixing bowls as well though.)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on August 30, 2020, 10:27:45 pm
That's a bowl and a half! I suppose the scales felt a bit expensive compared to the cheapo Lidl ones I'd previously been using, but compared to professional kit they're pretty reasonable. I'd recommend getting a pair of drug dealer's scales to go alongside them (bakery bits do a decent set for a tenner or so), for things that you may want to measure to sub-gram accuracy - I use mine mostly for yeast for cold-proof doughs (where amounts are of the order of 1.5g), and for coffee beans.

Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on September 06, 2020, 09:47:10 am
Do iced fruit buns count as bread?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50310148288_bc61e862f4_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jDJEiN)

Perfect with a cup of tea. Need to work on my icing technique though.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on September 07, 2020, 09:55:06 pm
One for Ham

(https://i.imgur.com/hHg8eVGl.jpg)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on September 07, 2020, 10:04:01 pm
 :thumbsup:

I wonder if Mrs Ham would notice if I installed one of those into a quiet corner of the kitchen

(and checkout the gallic mask wearing)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on September 08, 2020, 04:57:48 pm
:thumbsup:

I wonder if Mrs Ham would notice if I installed one of those into a quiet corner of the kitchen

(and checkout the gallic mask wearing)

Supose you get a smaller one.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on September 09, 2020, 08:32:32 pm
New toy:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50324431362_3998dd5b56.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jEZSaG)2020-09-09_07-40-21 (https://flic.kr/p/2jEZSaG) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Kim on September 09, 2020, 08:46:38 pm
New toy:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50324431362_3998dd5b56.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jEZSaG)2020-09-09_07-40-21 (https://flic.kr/p/2jEZSaG) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/), on Flickr

 :o  Can you do PCR on it?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mr Larrington on September 09, 2020, 10:14:15 pm
Oooh, a baby autoclave!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on September 09, 2020, 10:30:58 pm
My brother asked if I was going to be making dinosaurs....
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on September 09, 2020, 10:58:47 pm
Ooh, do report back - I've had my eye on one of those for ages, and given how cold my kitchen gets in winter I may yet crack...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: fboab on September 10, 2020, 12:26:32 pm
Need to work on my icing technique though.
Agreed. You need to keep practising, and send any flawed product here.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on September 10, 2020, 05:41:40 pm
Ooh, do report back - I've had my eye on one of those for ages, and given how cold my kitchen gets in winter I may yet crack...

As you can see from the picture I was measuring it's efficacy with the help of my probe thermometer. The kitchen was already warm (for Scottish values of warm) cos I had the oven on, but it popped up to 30C and stayed there, same with 40 and 49C. I didn't bother testing out the slow cooker heating function as that is secondary to my requirements (though I dare say I will try it out some time).

Next task is to see if I can find a generic upper wire rack for it that's cheaper than the OEM B&T one.  And bake some bread (prolly this weekend).

ETA - because it's a bit of a frivolous spend I did research the idea of using a cool box with a seedling mat & temp controller, but decided that although cheaper would take up too much space. Having said that the B&T was bigger than I was expecting (despite the fact I'd read all the info on dimensions), though it does at least fold flat.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on September 11, 2020, 06:39:14 pm
Just had a thought about another use for the Brød & Taylor proofer - as a plate warming device.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ashaman42 on September 12, 2020, 08:34:01 pm
Well I made some bread today, shaped it into loafy shape and stuck it in a warm oven for a second prove and...well you can see for youselves:

(https://i.imgur.com/eNJccBH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qhoo2Z7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3EY4Idi.jpg)

Ah well, it's still tasty so not exactly a failure.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on September 13, 2020, 06:53:36 pm
Ooh, do report back - I've had my eye on one of those for ages, and given how cold my kitchen gets in winter I may yet crack...

Next task is to see if I can find a generic upper wire rack for it that's cheaper than the OEM B&T one.  And bake some bread (prolly this weekend).


I'm failing at the wire rack thing. Well not exactly, but all the folding cake cooling rack that look like they would do the job are about £12 for a set of three. I don't need 3, I only want 1. I really object to paying B&T £30 plus £6 delivery just for their one so that I don't have 2 racks sitting about unused.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: SteveC on September 13, 2020, 08:22:12 pm
Ooh, do report back - I've had my eye on one of those for ages, and given how cold my kitchen gets in winter I may yet crack...

Next task is to see if I can find a generic upper wire rack for it that's cheaper than the OEM B&T one.  And bake some bread (prolly this weekend).


I'm failing at the wire rack thing. Well not exactly, but all the folding cake cooling rack that look like they would do the job are about £12 for a set of three. I don't need 3, I only want 1. I really object to paying B&T £30 plus £6 delivery just for their one so that I don't have 2 racks sitting about unused.
Lakeland? I know they do the stack of three ones, but I'm sure they do others.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on September 13, 2020, 10:26:30 pm
Ooh, do report back - I've had my eye on one of those for ages, and given how cold my kitchen gets in winter I may yet crack...

Next task is to see if I can find a generic upper wire rack for it that's cheaper than the OEM B&T one.  And bake some bread (prolly this weekend).


I'm failing at the wire rack thing. Well not exactly, but all the folding cake cooling rack that look like they would do the job are about £12 for a set of three. I don't need 3, I only want 1. I really object to paying B&T £30 plus £6 delivery just for their one so that I don't have 2 racks sitting about unused.

Consider finding a stainless rectangular BBQ grill that you could chop down if needed?  eg (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BBQ-Stainless-Steel-Grill-Grate-Grid-Wire-Mesh-Rack-Cook-Replacement-Net-3Size/392897313879?var=661806856777&hash=item5b7a813c57:g:NpQAAOSwWItfKSt7)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on September 14, 2020, 07:07:06 pm
I could, but it needs legs to be the upper tier in the proofer. And preferably folding ones so that I can store it easily when not in use.
I did have a vague memory of having an upper wire rack on legs from our old combi micro oven loafing about in the outhouse somewhere, but having just had a rummage it looks like I tossed that out in the last purge.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on September 16, 2020, 09:22:47 am
I learned just now that the term "pumpernickel" means "devil's fart".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpernickel

For that reason, I think I ought to make some, but I will need some rye flour first.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on September 19, 2020, 10:46:21 pm
Brød & Taylor proofer:

Buns at time 0 in the proofer
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50360787006_daf194ce94.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jJdcr9)2020-09-19_09-22-11 (https://flic.kr/p/2jJdcr9) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/), on Flickr

After 90mins, inflatable buns
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50360786461_e9cab36ff1.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jJdcgK)2020-09-19_09-22-02 (https://flic.kr/p/2jJdcgK) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/), on Flickr

Baked
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50361040711_526ea8df34.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jJeuRn)2020-09-19_10-39-47 (https://flic.kr/p/2jJeuRn) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/), on Flickr

Happy so far. We had sun in Furrybootoon today so the first prove of the dough was done in the late afternoon sun but I certainly needed the proofer for the 2nd prove.

Also, it was a good job I bought a 3 tier cooling rack set cos I needed two of the racks to fit all those buns in the proofer.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on September 20, 2020, 07:50:06 am
There's quite clearly some hanky panky going on, as those buns managed to procreate in the time they were being baked. Look good, though.

Out of idle curiosity (as my oven has a proving setting) how does the B&T maintain humidity? In the case of my oven, I slosh about 100ml of water in the bottom, and wipe it out to bake  (to avoid calcification).
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on September 20, 2020, 04:18:27 pm

Out of idle curiosity (as my oven has a proving setting) how does the B&T maintain humidity? In the case of my oven, I slosh about 100ml of water in the bottom, and wipe it out to bake  (to avoid calcification).

Are you not in danger of getting water in the electrics if you bung the water directly in the oven?

Yeah, those photos show 3 different tins of buns.
The B&T comes with a little aluminium tray for water which goes on the hotplate under the rack.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on September 20, 2020, 04:44:23 pm
Put simply, no. I could witter on about how it is designed for it, but I suspect that water in the bottom of any oven should be no more of an issue than in a roasting dish. The odd feature of the proving setting is that neff appear to have deployed a dedicated bottom element, as well as the normal bottom element. The normal bottom element gets very hot until the oven reaches the temperature. On proving, the bottom doesn't get hot at all, simply warm, hardly that. And, if you put hot water in the bottom it decides it won't do anything

(as mentioned previously, it is also why ICNBA to go down the sour dough route: Dough in the oven, 25 min, into the tins, 25 min, turn on the heat, 45 mins later turn out. As you may find, proving in a device is very consistent)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on September 20, 2020, 04:47:45 pm
Just out of the oven

(https://i.ibb.co/9Hf29Tr/20200920-164545.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tpNcMsJ)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on September 20, 2020, 04:48:14 pm
Thinking about it, the oven here has a defrost function which just circulates room temp air. 

Not sure it matters here tho.  Doesn't get that cold.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Russell on September 26, 2020, 05:27:01 pm
Just had a soda bread for lunch made with 50% white and 50% Cotswold Crunch.  Very nice! Warm out of the oven with salad and mackeral fillets.

https://www.fwpmatthews.co.uk/product/cotswold-crunch-flour/ (https://www.fwpmatthews.co.uk/product/cotswold-crunch-flour/)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on October 12, 2020, 11:40:46 am
The latest part baked baguettes

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ohI_LWfP92A/X4QuV70e9bI/AAAAAAADYNk/8E_-6ckMWdcgf_lejyE-Xr_UcgEDgaJjACPcBGAsYHg/s1024/PXL_20201011_085956356.jpg)

I think I might be getting the knack.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on October 12, 2020, 06:46:39 pm
Pas mal...

What do you use to prove them - a couchette?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on October 12, 2020, 07:28:11 pm
No, a plastic bowl covered with oiled clingfilm.

Dough is 70%, mixed and kept at room temperature. 2x yeast content, multiple proves, knocking back by lifting and folding to try to incorporate air. Final raise in the tins, covered with a tea towel. About 200g of flour per baguette. Baked @ 240 "Circotherm Intensive" on my oven, and I slosh boiling water into a solid tray beneath the rack at the start. Full baking is about 25 min, part baking is about 12 with another 12 @200 to finish.

(as a by the bye, I'm very pleased with the evenness of the bake, some slight darkening on either end of the l/h one, but otherwise even)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on October 20, 2020, 03:04:31 pm
Made a loaf this morning. All white flour, high hydration (~75%). By the end of proving, it was still very wet and sticky, like not-quite-set jelly, and a bit stuck to the side as I was turning it out, so it ended up being a bit of a dough splat, but at least it rose a bit in the oven, so not a total disaster...

Just cut into it and it's got just the right level of aeration inside - plenty of evenly sized bubbles, none too big. And it's flippin' delicious.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on November 06, 2020, 10:56:33 pm
In Mr Tesco's House of Toothy Comestibles this evening, I spied, in the freezer section, frozen (duh) sourdough.

This is Wrong. Very Wrong.

ETA. Not frozen sourdough bread, frozen sour dough, so you can make sourdough bread at home without all that tedious kneading nonsense. It was next to the clip on hipster beards.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on November 06, 2020, 11:22:29 pm
In Mr Tesco's House of Toothy Comestibles this evening, I spied, in the freezer section, frozen (duh) sourdough.

This is Wrong. Very Wrong.

ETA. Not frozen sourdough bread, frozen sour dough, so you can make sourdough bread at home without all that tedious kneading nonsense. It was next to the clip on hipster beards.

Is that sourdough starter?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on November 07, 2020, 12:12:15 am
Ingredients:
Fortified WHEAT Flour (with Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin, Thiamin), Water, Dried Fermented WHEAT Flour, Dried Durum WHEAT Sourdough, Salt, Yeast, Emulsifier: Mono- and diacetyl tartaric acid esters of mono- and diglycerides of fatty acids; Flour Treatment Agent: Ascorbic Acid; Enzymes, Rapeseed Oil.

No, it's not sourdough starter. It's made by the Northern Dough Company, who say
"There aren’t many things that beat the smell of freshly baked bread in the oven. Which is why we were so excited to introduce our Sourdough bread dough to the family. If you know thing or two about making Sourdough from scratch, you’ll know it requires a good helping of time, and double measures of patience. So, being the generous folk that we are, we’ve done the hard bit, so you can fast-forward to the fun bit."

Calling it sourdough is a bit of a stretch.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on November 07, 2020, 11:49:48 am
Calling it sourdough is a bit of a stretch.

And fold?

I think it’s ok to call it sourdough, but the added ingredients are enough to put me off.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on November 07, 2020, 01:03:20 pm
In Mr Tesco's House of Toothy Comestibles this evening, I spied, in the freezer section, frozen (duh) sourdough.

This is Wrong. Very Wrong.

ETA. Not frozen sourdough bread, frozen sour dough, so you can make sourdough bread at home without all that tedious kneading nonsense. It was next to the clip on hipster beards.
Do you have to defrost the beards before wearing?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on November 07, 2020, 05:51:47 pm
In Mr Tesco's House of Toothy Comestibles this evening, I spied, in the freezer section, frozen (duh) sourdough.

This is Wrong. Very Wrong.

ETA. Not frozen sourdough bread, frozen sour dough, so you can make sourdough bread at home without all that tedious kneading nonsense. It was next to the clip on hipster beards.
Do you have to defrost the beards before wearing?
Handily the beards are on one of those display stands at the end of the aisle. Pretend sourdough one side, a selection of sewing aids the other
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on November 11, 2020, 10:47:18 pm
I made a loaf this evening.

With dried yeast. Prove for 30 minutes, knock back, shape and prove again for an hour.  Bake for 40 minutes at 220C.

So quick!  I'll see what it tastes like later.

I used Cotswold Crunch "a speciality blend of strong white flour, malted wheat flakes and malt flour for bread and rolls. " which I'd bought in Lockdown 1.0 before I'd scored my 16kg bag of Canadian super duper flour and proved it in an oval banneton. 
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ginger Cat on November 14, 2020, 11:18:00 am
Finally replaced the cooker- the gas hob was fine but the oven has been kaput for 3 or 4 years. I got fed up with being restricted to a small halogen bench-top oven, took delivery of New Cooker on Monday. Induction hob, decent oven with a steam cycle option. I'm using a pizza stone to cook the bread on.

This week I baked sourdough for the first time. A batch of 100% wholemeal, then a batch of white. Both came out OK although I have yet to master the art of shaping. They taste great though.

More practice required..........

GC
Title: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on November 14, 2020, 11:28:40 am
I made a loaf this evening.

With dried yeast. Prove for 30 minutes, knock back, shape and prove again for an hour.  Bake for 40 minutes at 220C.

So quick!  I'll see what it tastes like later.

I used Cotswold Crunch "a speciality blend of strong white flour, malted wheat flakes and malt flour for bread and rolls. " which I'd bought in Lockdown 1.0 before I'd scored my 16kg bag of Canadian super duper flour and proved it in an oval banneton.

I’ve done a few non-sourdough loaves lately. Suspect I will need to hand in my hipster card if they find out.

Mainly out of necessity, since I realised I’d run out of bread and needed something for breakfast. My standard recipe is 20% wholemeal with a good glug of olive oil - makes a nice soft sandwich loaf.

Your proving times are ridiculously quick though - I can’t match that, even with the oven’s 40° proving setting. Are you using industrial quantities of yeast or something?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on November 14, 2020, 11:34:43 am

Your proving times are ridiculously quick though - I can’t match that, even with the oven’s 40° proving setting. Are you using industrial quantities of yeast or something?

My standard proving is 25 + 25 minutes in the oven "proving" setting, then leave it in as it heats to temp (45 minutes start to de-tin + 5 minutes at the end), normal quantities of yeast (teaspoon per 500g), sub two hours end to end. I bake at least 1.5Kg of flour dough per week, as I am sure I've mentioned, one of the main reasons I don't faff about with sourdough.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on November 14, 2020, 11:45:37 am
Hmmm. Could be that my yeast is duff, or maybe just a bit old and tired. It’s definitely not as fast acting though.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on November 14, 2020, 12:47:12 pm
I made a loaf this evening.

With dried yeast. Prove for 30 minutes, knock back, shape and prove again for an hour.  Bake for 40 minutes at 220C.

So quick!  I'll see what it tastes like later.

I used Cotswold Crunch "a speciality blend of strong white flour, malted wheat flakes and malt flour for bread and rolls. " which I'd bought in Lockdown 1.0 before I'd scored my 16kg bag of Canadian super duper flour and proved it in an oval banneton.

I’ve done a few non-sourdough loaves lately. Suspect I will need to hand in my hipster card if they find out.

Mainly out of necessity, since I realised I’d run out of bread and needed something for breakfast. My standard recipe is 20% wholemeal with a good glug of olive oil - makes a nice soft sandwich loaf.

Your proving times are ridiculously quick though - I can’t match that, even with the oven’s 40° proving setting. Are you using industrial quantities of yeast or something?

I thought that was quick too. I just followed the recipe on the packet of flour (or until doubled in size). Three teaspoons of dried yeast.  Taste was a bit meh compared to my sour dough though.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on November 14, 2020, 12:58:18 pm
Mine defo doesn't take 25mins. A bit quicker if I do it in the Brød & Taylor but it suggests you should only prove at 28°C if you're using commercial yeast so still not 25 plus 25 I don't think.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on November 14, 2020, 02:46:47 pm
I've only been baking like that for about 20 years, so maybe it isn't reliable ;)  I've been doing it that way from when I first got a Neff oven with a proving setting, as I remember (? dubious value) it didn't take me long to settle into that routine. Not that it makes any difference, but I normally use a large tin (https://www.nisbets.co.uk/matfer-bourgeat-exoglass-bread-mould-305mm/fa973) that takes 750g of flour. The first raise isn't necessarily doubled in size, but the second is, and the end product is as close to perfect as I need.

Some historic pics I've posted

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_LP9D_0nbGE/X6_s9ZpaOkI/AAAAAAADYhk/Pm4Y-6VlbHkd-PGTlIhULn86lDndFJeGwCPcBGAsYHg/s1024/IMG_0683.JPG)

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Rw-dlEk-vas/X6_s9X2w4XI/AAAAAAADYhk/WCcqgFM6ueo2K2j42QSQ3yV87Raoaup1QCPcBGAsYHg/s1024/IMG_1084.JPG)

That white looks like it might have a 50% uplift in yeast but will be the same time rising, the wholemeal is standard.

Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on November 14, 2020, 04:34:46 pm
Three teaspoons of dried yeast.  Taste was a bit meh compared to my sour dough though.

That does sound like quite a lot of yeast to me. But it depends on the size of the loaf... Ham’s 1tsp per 500g is about the same as what I use.

Poor flavour *may* be a sign of too much yeast (but could also be other reasons).
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on November 14, 2020, 07:34:11 pm
a large tin (https://www.nisbets.co.uk/matfer-bourgeat-exoglass-bread-mould-305mm/fa973)

"a stylish matt-black colourway that is sure to make it stand out in any kitchen"

The people who write these things... what are they thinking? It's a loaf tin, ffs! ;D

Does look like a good bit of kit though. As it should at that price!

And yes, going by the pictorial evidence, I don't think anyone can question your technique.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on November 14, 2020, 08:54:01 pm
Hmmm. Could be that my yeast is duff, or maybe just a bit old and tired. It’s definitely not as fast acting though.

Now I'm convinced it's the yeast. I made another loaf this evening, using different yeast.

Stuck it in the oven on the proving setting then got distracted and did other stuff... Came back 45 minutes later to find it had almost tripled in volume. Oops!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on November 14, 2020, 09:38:16 pm
I iz an exoglass fanboi, I've been using the solid spatula and the flat one now named "peleton" forever. When I saw the loaf tins, I knew I couldn't justify on an economic basis but I still couldn't resist. Loaves simply slide out like excrement off a heated digging implement (although I am too scared to go cold turkey and use the very lightest smear of oil)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ginger Cat on November 22, 2020, 06:50:19 pm
More sourdough today. Using the "YQ" flour from Hodomedods: https://hodmedods.co.uk/collections/flours/products/yq-wheat-flour

Thankfully they have a specific recipe for using 100% YQ flour in sourdough:  https://hodmedods.co.uk/blogs/recipes/wholegrain-sourdough-using-yq-wakelyns-population-wheat

I can confirm the recipe works a treat, even though it is a little different from conventional sourdough recipes. Which makes sense as the flour is more akin to spelt than to a hard wheat. (I used the mixer rather than hand-mix as that meant I could do the kneading whilst cooking my Sunday bacon & eggs, all worked out fine).

The result is a nicely risen loaf, and the taste is really good. Tangy (note I stir the hooch into my starter to maintain acidity), nutty, flavoursome.

I also made some Staffordshire oatcakes from the starter leavings (from refreshment) yesterday, basically add some oat milk and fine oatmeal to the waste starter to make a batter, leave for 10 min then cook in a hot griddle (frying pan) like pancakes. Top-notch flavour and texture and I suspect more authentic than using bakers yeast to leaven (staffs oatcakes being peasant food originally and bakers yeast wasn't really cheap until post-WWII).   

(Have taken delivery of a 16kg bag of YQ flour so I'm glad it works for bread as well as pastries etc!)

GC
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on December 25, 2020, 12:42:46 am
Has anyone used a breadmaker  to make rye bread?

I've got the Panasonic 2500 and that doesn't have a rye programme - apparently the 2501 does.

I've just followed this recipe:

https://www.theideaskitchen.com.au/dark-rye-bread/

adjusted to 100g strong white to 400g rye,

but I'm going to bake it on programme 4, which is the wholemeal programme on my machine.

I have invested in a rye paddle and I've set the loaf to be ready for 1pm tomorrow. That means that I will be in the kitchen to keep an eye on the breadmaker when it's kneading it. I don't want it leaping off the surface and smashing to bits, which happened to its predecessor.

If it turns out to be a disaster, a 1pm finish gives me time to make a wholemeal loaf to be ready before tea time, which I anticipate will be pretty late tomorrow because of all the food we have planned for lunch time.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on December 25, 2020, 02:51:46 pm
It worked really well! I'm eating some now with a chunk of strong cheddar. Dense and puddingy, but that's what you want with a rye bread.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: pcolbeck on December 30, 2020, 06:33:26 pm
We make a lot of 50% rye. Its program 7 on a 2502 and only takes 3.5 hours.
Always turns out really well with either light or dark rye flour.

Made some this afternoon to go with a sausage casserole.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: perpetual dan on December 30, 2020, 08:55:44 pm
For Christmas I got a pizza stone and a broken door seal on the main oven. Loaves have been coming out a bit lighter, but still tasty.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: The Family Cyclist on January 01, 2021, 08:03:11 pm
Advice sort please. I use a basic 1kg strong flour, 600ml water, two sachets quick yeast, salt and dash of whatever cooking oil is to hand. Works really well when I knead by hand and tbf I normally do as enjoy it.

However sometimes when I'm in a rush or don't want to get whinged at for getting flour everywhere I use the kenwood with bread hook and it just seems to go on the hook and get whacked around. It tastes alright but find it doesn't hold its shape as I don't use tins. Hand made I can shape put on tray for mini second prove while oven heats up and get a decent shaped loaf. With the mixer it just spreads. Any suggestions. I way just not be giving it long enough but worried if over kneading
Oh and don't like tins and find they stick. I may just have crap tins
Title: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on January 01, 2021, 08:23:14 pm
However sometimes when I'm in a rush or don't want to get whinged at for getting flour everywhere I use the kenwood with bread hook and it just seems to go on the hook and get whacked around.

I have a KitchenAid rather than a Kenwood, so it may not behave exactly the same, but...

Keep it on a low speed (2/10 is recommended for the KitchenAid), and don’t knead for too long - if it starts climbing up the hook, that’s a sign it’s done. According to things I’ve read online, some people get better results when adding the liquid gradually rather than all at once.

Check the dough quantity is appropriate for the bowl capacity too.


Quote
Oh and don't like tins and find they stick. I may just have crap tins

Grease and flour. I use rye flour.

My new baking book recommends breadcrumbs instead of flour but I’ve not tried that yet.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on January 01, 2021, 09:35:53 pm
For tins, you can't do better than the Matfer Exoglass (https://www.nisbets.co.uk/kitchenware-and-knives/pastry-and-baking-supplies/bakeware/loaf-tins/_/a33-4?q=%3Ap_brand%3Amatfer20bourgeat&sort=match-rate-desc). They are pricey, but with the lightest smear of oil they just turn the bread out, like magic, however wet the dough. (You can use without any oil, but then they are less magical). The eye watering cost is offset by the use they get, I bake 750g flour dough in each of the large tins - or should I say, moulds - at least weekly.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on January 01, 2021, 10:21:44 pm
I have used a Kenwood Chef in the past, though not doing so at the mo because I'm only making 500g at a time and I find it's too small for the Chef. I'm only using about 250ml water but that's very flour dependant.
I find the same with the Chef hook. Have you tried mixing it til it's come together and then leaving it for 10-15mins before giving it a quick mix again?
I use silicone loaf moulds BTW.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: orienteer on January 02, 2021, 10:31:25 am
Saw a Japanese TV programme about Panasonic's development of their bread maker.

They found that stretching the dough during kneading was the key to a good loaf. That's why their breadmakers have two vertical ridges on the sides.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2021, 05:28:25 pm
Saw a Japanese TV programme about Panasonic's development of their bread maker.

They found that stretching the dough during kneading was the key to a good loaf. That's why their breadmakers have two vertical ridges on the sides.

It's probably no coincidence that this is the bit where there's inevitably stuff that needs a bit of teflon-friendly Persuasion to clean off.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on January 02, 2021, 10:20:26 pm
I discovered an annoying design change in the Panasonic bread makers today.

I decided tot make a mostly-rye loaf today, and mixed all the ingredients, including water, in the bucket, only to realise that I hand't changed over from the wheat paddle to the rye paddle. Mildly irritating, thought I, but i have an older bucket from a previous, defunct, breadmaker so I thought I'd put the rye paddle in that and then tip all the ingredients into the old bucket, which looksidentical in shape to teh new bucket.

Except it isn't. Both are held into the breadmaker by bayonet fixings. The old bucket has four "hooks", the new bucket only two...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on January 10, 2021, 04:31:16 pm
I fear my sourdough starter has died. Damn.

Not entirely sure how or why. I keep it in the fridge between uses. Took it out yesterday morning to feed prior to baking this weekend but it hasn’t shown any sign of activity.

I shall nail it to the perch for the time being, in case it is just resting. Not hopeful though.

Oh well, I can always make a new one, but it’s disappointing all the same.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hatler on January 10, 2021, 04:33:35 pm
Our Kenwood is making occasional rather ugly clunking sounds when it's working hard.

Bugger.

If it fails catastrophically we will have to replace in a hurry.

Given the ratings here for the Panasonic I think that's where we'll end up.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hatler on January 10, 2021, 04:34:43 pm
And, in other news, we've just dispensed the last of the 16Kg bag of bread flour we bought in June (?)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on January 10, 2021, 04:44:57 pm
And, in other news, we've just dispensed the last of the 16Kg bag of bread flour we bought in June (?)

I took delivery of a 16kg sack at the start of August and finished it early December. Need a re-up. Have been relying on supermarket shelves being well stocked in the meantime. Really should place an order very soon before Brexit really kicks in.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hatler on January 10, 2021, 06:02:54 pm
Any recommendations for our next sack ?   Last sack was Heygates.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on January 10, 2021, 06:27:07 pm
Any recommendations for our next sack ?   Last sack was Heygates.

My last one was Shipton Mill No.4 because it was recommended elsewhere. I suspect not as strong as some (ie lower protein content) so maybe not the best option for long fermentation. A good all rounder though.

https://www.shipton-mill.com/flour-direct/untreated-organic-white-flour-no-4-105.htm
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on January 10, 2021, 06:28:42 pm
I had such a lot of grief making good bread when I was buying whatever flour I could get hold of during lockdown that I am only buying what I know again. At least until I can't get it again. Having said that I have a load of random stuff ordered in desperation (mostly Shipton Mill now) I need to use up before it goes bad.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: perpetual dan on January 10, 2021, 06:47:07 pm
Any recommendations for our next sack ?   Last sack was Heygates.
I’m also on a sack of Shipton Mill no 4, plus a box of assorted Ciabatta, malt house, rye and wholemeal flours to add variety and get to free delivery.

My starter is light rye. I bake every 2 days (give or take) so don’t fridge my starter.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on January 10, 2021, 08:28:47 pm
My starter is light rye. I bake every 2 days (give or take) so don’t fridge my starter.

Mine is light rye too. It’s normally very active, and doesn’t usually take very long to get going after coming out of the fridge. I’ve previously left it two weeks without problem.

I’d love to be baking every day but just don’t get through enough bread. I suppose I could scale down and make smaller loaves more often.

Anyway, I think it might actually be ok after all. I’ve kept it warm since giving it another feed this morning and it seems to have risen slightly. Panic over!

In the meantime, I made a quick loaf with dried yeast which is fine to keep me going. Just don’t dob me in to hipster club, please.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: offcumden on January 10, 2021, 09:16:34 pm
Having made bread on and off over the years, I've recently got back into it, mostly using the Kenwood bread machine, but with some nice crusty oven-baked loaves which started on the 'dough' cycle. Very interested to also be trying rye flour for the first time, gradually increasing the proportion of rye to wheat. Getting lots of inspiration from the contributions to this thread - Thanks!

Because I am the only one eating the bread most of the time, I slice it and bag it for the freezer  (I undoubtedly could consume more but it would do bad things for my power to weight ratio!).
Can I ask if anyone here has a recommendation for a good bread knife, as my S/S Pro Cook Professional is losing its edge on the golden crusts!?  Or is there perhaps a way of sharpening the serrated edge that I'm not aware of?  TIA.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on January 10, 2021, 09:56:33 pm
Baking and slicing into the freezer in my SOP, this is the modern equivalent of the knife that does perfect service and has done for the last *numberbiggerthan25* years.


https://www.nisbets.co.uk/victorinox-fibrox-larding-knife-serrated-blade-355mm/c684
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: perpetual dan on January 10, 2021, 10:06:48 pm
...
I’d love to be baking every day but just don’t get through enough bread. I suppose I could scale down and make smaller loaves more often.

Anyway, I think it might actually be ok after all. I’ve kept it warm since giving it another feed this morning and it seems to have risen slightly. Panic over!

In the meantime, I made a quick loaf with dried yeast which is fine to keep me going. Just don’t dob me in to hipster club, please.

Glad to hear it’s coming out of hibernation!
I did tweak my recipes to be about right for 2 days for the 4 of us for most of them. I think I’d get bored every day, and we don’t have a lot of space in the freezer.
I also recently got a book of french not sourdough recipes, so use dried yeast sometimes too. Most recently some pain façon beaucaire.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: philip on January 10, 2021, 10:24:43 pm
Or is there perhaps a way of sharpening the serrated edge that I'm not aware of?  TIA.
I use a traditional rod-shaped sharpening steel on my bread knife. It may not get back to original condition, but is certainly good enough as far as I am concerned.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: offcumden on January 11, 2021, 08:17:34 pm
Thanks to Ham and to philip for replies.

That Victorinox knife looks like a good piece of kit if I decide to replace my current weapon.

Before I abandon the Pro Cook I'll have a go at fettling it using the steel I use on carving knives etc.  Some interesting YouTube videos on this, including  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tei9E2pTU3s

Another rye/wholewheat mixed loaf today:  smells lovely!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on January 24, 2021, 11:22:43 am
I made cinnamon buns yesterday. Need to work on my technique a bit - they didn't turn out quite as smart-looking as Mrs Pingu's, but they all got eaten before I had a chance to take a picture, which is an indication of how damn tasty they were (I only made a half-quantity of dough though, so it's not like I scoffed a full batch of buns).

The recipe was from my Christmas present, the Nordic Baking Book by Magnus Nilsson (https://www.phaidon.com/store/food-cook/the-nordic-baking-book-9780714876849/) (head chef at Fäviken). It's a magnificent tome - not so much a collection of recipes, more an encyclopaedic reference work. There's a whole chapter on sweet yeasted pastries, which opens with three variations on a basic sweet dough, followed by loads of recipes based on that dough, starting with the cinnamon buns. I shall be working my way through the chapter over the coming months... already got my eye on the Toscabullar ('Tosca buns' - filled with almond sugar paste and topped with toffee and almonds), and Skølebrod ('School buns' - filled with custard and topped with coconut). And then I'll move on to the cakes, breads, desserts...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on January 24, 2021, 02:48:13 pm
Do you have a spare room? :P
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on January 24, 2021, 02:58:42 pm
My starter is light rye. I bake every 2 days (give or take) so don’t fridge my starter.

Mine is light rye too. It’s normally very active, and doesn’t usually take very long to get going after coming out of the fridge. I’ve previously left it two weeks without problem.

I’d love to be baking every day but just don’t get through enough bread. I suppose I could scale down and make smaller loaves more often.

Anyway, I think it might actually be ok after all. I’ve kept it warm since giving it another feed this morning and it seems to have risen slightly. Panic over!

In the meantime, I made a quick loaf with dried yeast which is fine to keep me going. Just don’t dob me in to hipster club, please.

My starter passed away in november.  (neglect)

Got a new one going last week, using wholemeal (and now rye). It was doubling after two days. Its an absolute monster and I don't know what accounts for it being so much more active more than in summer other than wondering whether Mrs F is a bit yeasty at the moment.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on January 24, 2021, 08:21:42 pm
Do you have a spare room? :P

You'd be welcome any time - as long as you show me how you get your cinnamon buns looking so tidy!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on January 24, 2021, 09:12:18 pm
Do you have a spare room? :P

You'd be welcome any time - as long as you show me how you get your cinnamon buns looking so tidy!

Now *that* I can do. You just need either a bit of dental floss or sewing thread. Easy when you know how :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42E6FSYc_0c
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hellymedic on January 24, 2021, 09:55:36 pm
My starter passed away in november.  (neglect)

I read that as 'My sister passed away..' and reread it before offering condolences.

Rapid reading has its downsides...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on January 26, 2021, 09:43:41 pm
^
I probably should get my sister out of the fridge and reanimate her, ready for action

Anyway, just did this...

(https://i.ibb.co/W3WB5J8/20210126-214045.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yRngPjv)
free image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)

Great spring. The starter is incredible. Must more active than my previous one.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on January 30, 2021, 07:00:07 pm
I got some fresh yeast from Morrisons today. You have to ask the baker for it, but he was very obliging, and interested to know what I was baking (see below). He'll cut you a piece off his big block - 20p for 50g. Bargain. He also mentioned that he could sell me a 16kg sack of flour for £9. Would have taken him up on that except I'm OK for flour at the moment.

Toscabullar ('Tosca buns' - filled with almond sugar paste and topped with toffee and almonds)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50891629032_bb7799848d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kx7UgS)

I should have left them a bit longer on the final rise. Also, the topping slid off some of them - I guess you're supposed to make an indentation in the top to prevent that. And I think I might need to experiment with the oven temperature to get the right balance of the buns cooking and the topping caramelising.

Very, very tasty though. Unbelievable amounts of butter involved. Definitely worth making again.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on January 30, 2021, 07:08:39 pm
Mmm they sound good :P

Someone on my twitter feed was posting pics of hot cross buns today. Maybe I should have a bash at making those.... any recommended recipes?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on January 30, 2021, 08:48:24 pm
The recipe I use is a Paul Hollywood one - I think it's this one:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/hot_cross_buns_74750

I also made a sourdough version based on the same recipe but I don't know that it's worth it.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: fboab on January 31, 2021, 11:40:20 am
I haven't done bread in ages (10 years?) but yearned for Belgian buns.
Ah, that's why I don't do bread. They were delicious.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210131/292991c607c1546ab352e75e13b53809.jpg)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Canardly on January 31, 2021, 12:20:17 pm
Ooooh they look nice.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ham on February 01, 2021, 11:35:58 am
I've been baking my own bread, only buying the occasional baguette, for more years than I care to think about. Right now, I have zero time, so I bought bread. From Waitrose, "bakers" loaves, so I thought would be ok. Jeez, is THAT what people think bread is supposed to be? The white was reasonable, but the wholemeal was puffy shite.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on February 01, 2021, 12:25:46 pm
I've been baking my own bread, only buying the occasional baguette, for more years than I care to think about. Right now, I have zero time, so I bought bread. From Waitrose, "bakers" loaves, so I thought would be ok. Jeez, is THAT what people think bread is supposed to be? The white was reasonable, but the wholemeal was puffy shite.

This is entirely the reason I decided to finally start making the effort to make my own regularly, rather than as a 'special occasion' thing.

I really don't know why I put up with shit bread for so many years. It's not like it's difficult to make your own, nor even necessarily all that time-consuming.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: fboab on February 01, 2021, 04:12:42 pm
Well duh.
Bought bread isn't nice enough to tempt me. Home made is. Special occasion it shall remain.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on February 01, 2021, 04:57:46 pm
Bought bread isn't nice enough to tempt me.

Yes, there is that. I have been known to devour as much as half a loaf as soon as it's cool enough to cut into. I just can't resist fresh bread. I'm amazed I don't have diabetes yet.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on February 02, 2021, 09:37:46 pm
Right then hipsters. Sourdough. Do you knead or are you a disciple of stretch and fold? Or something of a mixture? Just to see what else is out there I've been watching too many YouTube videos, all which seem to be different.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on February 02, 2021, 09:41:40 pm
I shove it in the mixer.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: perpetual dan on February 06, 2021, 02:24:04 pm
What I call kneading has a large element of stretch and fold. Unless it's my ciabatta, which gets a stretch and fold in the bowl with very little squashing.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on February 06, 2021, 03:33:22 pm
I usually knead but I'm not a disciple of anything. I'll just follow the recipe and hope I get tasty bread as a result. As far as I can tell, stretch and fold seems to be primarily a way of working with very wet and sticky doughs - and these will form gluten without kneading because of the high water content and long fermentation time. But others OTP know a lot more about this than me.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on February 07, 2021, 10:49:10 pm
I'm working on ways to improve the loaf shape, so watching a lot of Youtube on that, plus practice. I watched Bake With Jack and had a go at the technique there - no kneading, three lots of stretch and fold, then a preshape followed by a shape.   A shade higher hydration than I normally use (72% instead of 67%).  Good looking (and tasting loaf), still a bit of sticking to the basket and it could have done with a touch longer in the oven, but I'm quite pleased.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wzXC2YL6o-4i0xQH_QY9BtGrNRH0MARHcu7xtvs3OGqqA1nVISnCtemAzv9p2Xlvk4UpoWysLcuk49K-6Y1rRvY0wIdEnYLVt66v7O73POu1OAE6C8bHN6juldW9F4jAwfw7PBa1mwU=w2400)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ginger Cat on February 12, 2021, 11:06:31 pm
My latest invention is sourdough sodabread. An emergency recipe for when you forgot to bake the usual bread and run out of bread and all 3 starters need refreshing. You can have a loaf coming out within an hour of starting it so long as you put the oven to heat before you do anything else.

Take a bowl of the leavings from refreshing your starters. Ideally been left in fridge at least a week so nicely acidic.

Add enough Balachdre Rustic flour to get a soft dough.

Chuck in salt and a good helping of bicarb.

Knead a bit to mix it up.

Pop in a round tin, into a preheated oven and bake for 30 min or so.

It looked unpretty and is a bit crumbly ( though not dry), but boy it tastes soooooo good, even better with a bit of butter on and topped with some Somerset brie.

GC
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on February 13, 2021, 01:42:21 pm
Anyone got a recipe for a nice bread involving caraway seeds?

A few years ago a Hungarian bloke who worked with us for a while made a caraway bready thing. It was really nice so I thought I should make some. Still not got around to it...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: SteveC on February 13, 2021, 01:46:10 pm
Try

http://boroughmarket.org.uk/recipes/rye-spelt-loaf

I made it over Christmas and is was very good.
MrsC then requested a version without caraway (so I didn't put any of the other seeds in either) and that was also rather scrummy.

Both are probably better toasted.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: fboab on February 13, 2021, 03:54:18 pm
Anyone got a recipe for a nice bread involving caraway seeds?

A few years ago a Hungarian bloke who worked with us for a while made a caraway bready thing. It was really nice so I thought I should make some. Still not got around to it...
I'd just throw a bunch of caraway seeds in a standard wholemeal or rye mix.

I love caraway seeds, put them in random dishes when Mr Smith isn't looking.
Title: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on February 13, 2021, 04:19:14 pm
I used to have a really good recipe for an Eastern European (possibly Russian) dark rye bread made with plenty of caraway seeds, and orange juice. I think it also contained treacle and lots of butter. It was truly delicious.

Lost in the mists of time though. I think I got it from BBC Good Food magazine.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on February 13, 2021, 04:39:07 pm
I used to have a really good recipe for an Eastern European (possibly Russian) dark rye bread made with plenty of caraway seeds, and orange juice. I think it also contained treacle and lots of butter. It was truly delicious.

Lost in the mists of time though. I think I got it from BBC Good Food magazine.
Rye bread with caraway seeds and treacle sounds familiar to me. This certainly isn't the recipe you lost but with a bit of luck it might be similar:
http://truffle-in-a-rum-chocolate.blogspot.com/2016/04/chleb-zytnio-gryczany-z-melasa-i.html
Quote
Chleb żytnio-gryczany, z melasą i kminkiem

Zaczyn:
2 łyżki zakwasu żytniego
160 g wody
100g mąki żytniej razowej
50 g mąki gryczanej

Wszystkie składniki wymieszać, miskę szczelnie przykryć folią i zostawić w temp. pokojowej na 10-12 godz.

Ciasto właściwe:
cały zaczyn
1/3 łyżeczka drożdży instant
2 łyżeczki soli
400 g wody
400 g mąki żytniej razowej
100 g mąki gryczanej
1 łyżeczka nasion kminku (całych, nie mielonych)
1 szczypta mielonej kolendry
1 łyżka dowolnej melasy, słodu, syropu lub ciemnego miodu
2 tablespoons rye starter
160g water
100g wholemeal rye flour
50g buckwheat flour

Mix, leave to rise for 10-12 hours

Dough
whole starter
1/3 teaspoon instant yeast
2 teaspoons salt
400g water
400g wholemeal rye flour
400g buckwheat flour
1 teaspoon whole caraway seeds
a pinch of ground coriander
1 tablespoon treacle or honey etc
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: quixoticgeek on February 13, 2021, 05:19:28 pm


I have a 2lb loaf tin. How much flour should I use to make a loaf to go in a 2lb loaf tin. 900g seems... excessive.

J
Title: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on February 13, 2021, 05:22:30 pm


I have a 2lb loaf tin. How much flour should I use to make a loaf to go in a 2lb loaf tin. 900g seems... excessive.

J

For that size tin, I would use 500g flour (with 300g water).

It’s not an exact science but 900g is definitely way too much.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: slope on February 13, 2021, 05:44:40 pm
I have a 2lb loaf tin. How much flour should I use to make a loaf to go in a 2lb loaf tin. 900g seems... excessive.
J

My 2lb ancient 'Prestige' loaf tins - measure externally: 9¼" x 5¼" x 2¾"

I use 650g total mix of flours + 200g mixed sunflower and pumpkin seeds - and around 400ml water

And that's just lovely :)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: quixoticgeek on February 13, 2021, 05:47:05 pm
I have a 2lb loaf tin. How much flour should I use to make a loaf to go in a 2lb loaf tin. 900g seems... excessive.
J

My 2lb ancient 'Prestige' loaf tins - measure externally: 9¼" x 5¼" x 2¾"

I was about to ask "Wtf is that in real units" then realised I did ask about a 2lb loaf tin, so it's kinda my own fault.

I got it on amazon uk back when I could order things from the UK easily. Wish i had got two now...

Quote

I use 650g total mix of flours + 200g mixed sunflower and pumpkin seeds - and around 400ml water

And that's just lovely :)

Need to work this one out. I normally make a pizza, and then use the left over dough to make a loaf. So I need to end up with 500g flour's worth of dough after I've taken the fist size lump for my pizza...

J
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: quixoticgeek on February 13, 2021, 06:36:35 pm


What do you all cover your dough with while it proves? Last time so used a ramp tea towel, like I always have done, and when the dough rose enough to touch it, removing the tea towel meant all the gas for let out the dough and I got dwarven battle bread. The dough is in a 900g loaf tin.. 
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on February 13, 2021, 06:40:40 pm


What do you all cover your dough with while it proves? Last time so used a ramp tea towel, like I always have done, and when the dough rose enough to touch it, removing the tea towel meant all the gas for let out the dough and I got dwarven battle bread. The dough is in a 900g loaf tin..
My current recipe has uncovered dough, so not much help.

Have you dried dusting the top of the dough with flour?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: quixoticgeek on February 13, 2021, 06:44:01 pm


What do you all cover your dough with while it proves? Last time so used a ramp tea towel, like I always have done, and when the dough rose enough to touch it, removing the tea towel meant all the gas for let out the dough and I got dwarven battle bread. The dough is in a 900g loaf tin..
My current recipe has uncovered dough, so not much help.

Have you dried dusting the top of the dough with flour?

No I haven't. Would that cause issues with the dry flour and damp tea towel?

J
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on February 13, 2021, 06:59:51 pm


What do you all cover your dough with while it proves? Last time so used a ramp tea towel, like I always have done, and when the dough rose enough to touch it, removing the tea towel meant all the gas for let out the dough and I got dwarven battle bread. The dough is in a 900g loaf tin..
My current recipe has uncovered dough, so not much help.

Have you dried dusting the top of the dough with flour?

No I haven't. Would that cause issues with the dry flour and damp tea towel?

J
Hmm. I'd go for a light dusting and a dry tea towel rather than damp.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: quixoticgeek on February 13, 2021, 07:15:43 pm

Hmm. I'd go for a light dusting and a dry tea towel rather than damp.

Shall give that a go. Timer just went ping, so time to make the pizza and put the rest of the dough in it's loaf tin.

J
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on February 13, 2021, 08:08:38 pm
I was about to ask "Wtf is that in real units" then realised I did ask about a 2lb loaf tin, so it's kinda my own fault.

It’s a nominal measurement anyway and there will be much variation in capacity between 2lb loaf tins from different manufacturers.

If translating it into metric, you’d call it a 1kg tin rather than 900g.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on February 13, 2021, 08:10:32 pm
Hmm. I'd go for a light dusting and a dry tea towel rather than damp.

+1

Dust with rye flour (low gluten so less sticky) and cover with a dry muslin cloth.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: slope on February 13, 2021, 09:31:42 pm
I was about to ask "Wtf is that in real units" then realised I did ask about a 2lb loaf tin, so it's kinda my own fault.

It’s a nominal measurement anyway and there will be much variation in capacity between 2lb loaf tins from different manufacturers.

If translating it into metric, you’d call it a 1kg tin rather than 900g.

And I've just filled the "2lb" Pestige tin mentioned above with liquid - it takes 1.4 litres to the brim ;)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on February 13, 2021, 09:37:25 pm
Hmm. I'd go for a light dusting and a dry tea towel rather than damp.

+1

Dust with rye flour (low gluten so less sticky) and cover with a dry muslin cloth.

Rye flour is what I use in the cloth in the banneton when doing sourdough.

When I'm doing bog standard yeasty bread I put it in a giant plastic bag.

When I'm doing the last bit of shaped pizza dough balls in the fridge I use a damp tea towel and nothing else.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: quixoticgeek on February 13, 2021, 09:46:50 pm


Well i got a loaf...

(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/EuIwZ53XAAIpiiH.jpg)

It didn't rise as much as I expected before it went in the oven. But did spring nicely. I'm realising i forgot to score the top, hence the split along the sides. Will give it a few mins before I slice it to see how good it is...


Oh and the pizza I made was ok. Not my finest. But tasty and filling.

(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/EuIfbHPXUAMuRen.jpg)


J
Title: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on February 13, 2021, 10:47:28 pm
When I'm doing bog standard yeasty bread I put it in a giant plastic bag.

I need to get some of those. They were very prominent in the last series of Bake Off.

Do you oil it or just leave it au naturel?

I used to use cling film but obviously that’s not the done thing these days. I’ve also tried those beeswax paper sheets but feel there’s no real advantage to those over using a cloth.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Mrs Pingu on February 13, 2021, 11:50:12 pm
My bog standard bread I make in a silicone loaf 'tin'. I give it a bit of a wipe with fat before putting the dough in and then I put that in a big plastic bag, something like this https://www.lakeland.co.uk/1022/100-Gusseted-Freezeasy-Food-Freezer-Bags-28-x-41cm which I tie at the top for the 2nd proof.
I store it in the same bag after baking.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on February 14, 2021, 07:29:39 pm
Tragic hipster bread made using the stretchy-fold method and baked on my of-so-heavy lump of mild steel. Very very pleased with this one.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/iMMMg9ljwfm0ZD-VdtLEndSqvVSBly66Vrea2gsUccQJzGdwUpX-x9RE8DhbpNGo6C7p7kFpjYb_EL2J-i9PnvCCLcIeUNuMWMmHdOe3qRf3VcIxTjT0ZuFtuIe_3-_gRwUVQbvSZfc=w2400)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on February 14, 2021, 08:05:06 pm
I love the message on your lame.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Ginger Cat on February 14, 2021, 09:21:58 pm


What do you all cover your dough with while it proves? Last time so used a ramp tea towel, like I always have done, and when the dough rose enough to touch it, removing the tea towel meant all the gas for let out the dough and I got dwarven battle bread. The dough is in a 900g loaf tin..

Showercap.

GC
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Polar Bear on February 14, 2021, 09:46:32 pm
In a bizarre twist we did a breadmaking course which started in January last year.  Since then I have been baking sourdough, baguettes, focaccia and bloomers as well as NOT cross buns (I really cannot be arsed with the pointless decorative cross), madeira cake, lemon drizzle cake and stollen.

Even more bizarre is that we have two proper bakers locally from whom we have bought quality bread and cake for years.  Just fancied doing my own.

The course we did was run by one of the two local bakers and he has been supplying me with various flours for my baking throughout.



What do you all cover your dough with while it proves? Last time so used a ramp tea towel, like I always have done, and when the dough rose enough to touch it, removing the tea towel meant all the gas for let out the dough and I got dwarven battle bread. The dough is in a 900g loaf tin..
My current recipe has uncovered dough, so not much help.

Have you dried dusting the top of the dough with flour?

No I haven't. Would that cause issues with the dry flour and damp tea towel?

J
Hmm. I'd go for a light dusting and a dry tea towel rather than damp.

I use a dirt cheap clear plastic shower cap.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: perpetual dan on February 15, 2021, 08:07:03 am
I’m wondering what I’m missing now. I don’t think I’ve seen a recipe that talks about plastic bags. The first rise, for me, happens in the mixing bowl I used for mixing.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on February 15, 2021, 09:20:08 am
I’m wondering what I’m missing now. I don’t think I’ve seen a recipe that talks about plastic bags. The first rise, for me, happens in the mixing bowl I used for mixing.

'Proving bags' seem to be a thing now. They were all using them in the last series of Bake Off. I've never seen one mentioned in a recipe, but you'd use it in place of a sheet of clingfilm or whatever else you use to cover the dough during proving - just slip the whole tin/tray inside the bag.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: nicknack on February 15, 2021, 09:29:25 am
In the days before the bread machine I used to use a standard supermarket plastic bag.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on February 16, 2021, 01:06:51 pm
I love the message on your lame.
It is one of my Best Things.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Hot Flatus on February 23, 2021, 12:44:48 pm
Sourdough is better in winter...

(https://i.ibb.co/jvt8jGX/20210223-105900.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wNtd2Cm)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on March 10, 2021, 07:31:41 pm
Using old fast action yeast, by old october 2019, and it is proving in a pot of water to see if it comes to life.


Two sachets so far and it isn't that lively...
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: hatler on March 11, 2021, 05:00:19 pm
No, unlikely to revive. I seem to recall its max life is about 6 months.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on March 11, 2021, 05:14:12 pm
The sachets last a lot longer than the tins of loose yeast - I find the tins don't last very long at all once opened, as little as a week or two.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on March 11, 2021, 06:15:18 pm
The sachets last a lot longer than the tins of loose yeast - I find the tins don't last very long at all once opened, as little as a week or two.

Do you keep the tins in the fridge after opening? I didn't for ages, until I read the small print on the side - my instant yeast seems to stay viable for a couple of months that way.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on March 11, 2021, 06:17:56 pm
The sachets last a lot longer than the tins of loose yeast - I find the tins don't last very long at all once opened, as little as a week or two.

Do you keep the tins in the fridge after opening? I didn't for ages, until I read the small print on the side - my instant yeast seems to stay viable for a couple of months that way.

Never occurred to me. Thanks for the tip!
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: offcumden on March 11, 2021, 06:27:00 pm

Do you keep the tins in the fridge after opening? I didn't for ages, until I read the small print on the side - my instant yeast seems to stay viable for a couple of months that way.

Works for me, too. At least a couple of months, at a guess.
(next time I open a tin I will try and remember to write the date on it)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: JonBuoy on March 11, 2021, 08:53:19 pm
A couple of weeks ago I opened a tin of yeast with 'BBE 10/2020' printed on it that I had mislaid in my food storage facility  ::-)

It has lived in the fridge since opening (as usual) and seems absolutely fine.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Wowbagger on March 14, 2021, 12:00:19 pm
I find that the tinned dried yeast gradually loses its efficacy. The Panasonic recipe for a 400g loaf suggests ½ teaspoon full of yeast. That's fine straight after the vacuum seal has been broken but it takes me a while to finish one of those tins. By the time I get to the last quarter, I'm upping the quantity to 3/4 a spoonful.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: citoyen on March 14, 2021, 02:00:10 pm
Most of my bread is sourdough, so I don’t use baker’s yeast often enough to get through a tin before it goes off, hence I tend to use sachets instead. But we do have a tin that has been sitting unopened in the cupboard for several months, and this discussion has inspired me to actually use it, so I made a couple of loaves the other day. Turned out fine.

And based on the principle that it’s better to use up the tin quickly once opened, this morning I made a batch of cinnamon buns and toffee & almond buns. For these, the recipe specifies 50g fresh yeast, so I converted that to 20g dried yeast. Probably could have done with a bit more, tbh - the dough did rise, but not as quickly as I would expect.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on March 15, 2021, 10:22:46 pm
Iffen I could work out how to embed video I could treat you to a time lapse of paint drying my latest loaf in all its oven springy goodness. But I can't. Count yourselves lucky.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Bolt on March 15, 2021, 11:14:49 pm
Tragic hipster bread made using the stretchy-fold method and baked on my of-so-heavy lump of mild steel. Very very pleased with this one.

What's the consensus on the benefits of the Frenchy stretchy-fold method of kneading versus the more conventional heal of hand/knuckle roll fold and turn approach?
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on March 20, 2021, 03:59:16 pm
So does the tinned yeast live in the fridge even when upopened?

Have I mentioned my banneton?

(https://i.imgur.com/zM9ZgMC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gW74yf5.jpg)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Gattopardo on March 20, 2021, 04:11:18 pm
Today is my bread mix of a few flours (pan cereales, allison seeded flour and pan campagne)

Some in the heavily floured and semolina banneton, which will be baked on a pizza stone
(https://i.imgur.com/yNiNxLT.jpg)

Dough in a kenwood stainless steel bowl to be baked in a le creuset enamel coated casserole dish.
(https://i.imgur.com/IQrBdPZ.jpg)
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Tim Hall on March 20, 2021, 04:17:12 pm
Tragic hipster bread made using the stretchy-fold method and baked on my of-so-heavy lump of mild steel. Very very pleased with this one.

What's the consensus on the benefits of the Frenchy stretchy-fold method of kneading versus the more conventional heal of hand/knuckle roll fold and turn approach?
I'm getting much better results*  doing stretchy fold than I was doing kneading. There's strange time dilation thing that seems to happen during kneading, when 10 minutes last for hours. Currently I'm using the ever so cheerful Bake With Jack's recipe and method. However as this has several changes compared to my previous recipe, I'm not sure whether it's the change to stretchy/fold or some other change (overmight fridge rest for example), or a combination of these that is responsible.

* not today. The bread stuck slightly to the peel as I shimmied it into the oven, so it's a bit of an odd shape.
Title: Re: The Bread Thread
Post by: Jakob W on March 20, 2021, 04:29:49 pm
So does the tinned yeast live in the fridge even when upopened?

Check the packaging, but all the ones I've ever used just say to keep in the fridge once opened, which works for me.