Author Topic: The Bread Thread (Read 108975 times)

Tail End Charlie · « **Reply #125 on:** 09 May, 2014, 08:59:53 pm »

Bought some "oak smoked stoneground" flour from Booths. It was about £2-50 for a kg bag, but I don't mind paying for decent flour (after all I paid that for a cup of crap coffee today). It makes a delicious loaf, I just made a basic one to test the taste and would think that the addition of other things such as nuts or dates would be fantastic. Well worth trying it, if there's a Booths near you.
Actually, have just checked and it's a 1.5 kg bag. Result.

Have looked again at the bag, it's from the Bacheldre watermill in Powys. There is a web-site which lists several stockists in many parts of the country. Can even be bought via Amazon.

Tail End Charlie · « **Reply #126 on:** 06 July, 2014, 09:24:49 pm »

Been experimenting with using cornmeal in place of some flour in my loaves. So far, very impressed, you can tell there's something different in the loaf. I soak the cornmeal overnight with a bit of treacle and water and then make the loaf as normal.

I've also had some more goes with spelt flour, having not been impressed previously. Using it together with rye flour is tricky, but I've had good results with starting a bit of the mix off and letting it ferment overnight and then adding more flour and yeast and making as per normal, I think this technique is called a sponge method. Again, it makes a tasty loaf with a slightly nutty taste (although I invariably use a load of seeds aswell).

Gattopardo · « **Reply #127 on:** 07 July, 2014, 03:22:03 am »

Keep thinking I should try and use chappati flour, or at least a mix of it to make bread.

Tail End Charlie · « **Reply #128 on:** 07 July, 2014, 10:15:47 am »

What is chapatti flour? I thought to make chapattis you used wholemeal, or is it some other type of flour used in Asian cooking? I regularly shop in Asian stores and I know they seem to have many different types of flour. I've used gram flour which makes a delicious snack when hot, but the taste isn't half as good when cold.

Gattopardo · « **Reply #129 on:** 07 July, 2014, 10:26:32 am »

Er £4 for 10kg in tesco...maybe £3 http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=271657355

Supposed to be alot of things but might buy a bag....

Pickled Onion · « **Reply #130 on:** 10 July, 2014, 01:07:26 pm »

Quote from: Tail End Charlie on 07 July, 2014, 10:15:47 am

What is chapatti flour? I thought to make chapattis you used wholemeal, or is it some other type of flour used in Asian cooking? I regularly shop in Asian stores and I know they seem to have many different types of flour. I've used gram flour which makes a delicious snack when hot, but the taste isn't half as good when cold.

Chapati flour is made from durum wheat which is high protein, which is desirable for flat breads. High protein implies high gluten, but the gluten is not as available as other wheat flours, so it is reasonable for baking leavened bread but will not rise as well as standard strong bread flour.

Gram flour is ground chick peas so is not meant for baking at all. It's used for the stick things (sev) in bombay mix which are easy to make if you have a potato ricer. With a bit of experimentation it can also make a passable savoury custard for vegan quiche.

Tail End Charlie · « **Reply #131 on:** 10 July, 2014, 08:05:51 pm »

Thanks pickled onion, I haven't come across chapatti flour.

Pickled Onion · « **Reply #132 on:** 12 July, 2014, 10:18:31 am »

I used to use it a lot as it makes perfect naan bread - it never occurred to me to use for normal bread, but given the price as above I think I'll give it a go!

levitator · « **Reply #133 on:** 12 July, 2014, 10:59:34 pm »

Lots of mentions up this thread of sourdough, something I've been trying over the past few months. Very mixed results: the first attempt was overbaked and burnt. Second batch came out fine. Then I - errr - lost my starter culture. no need to go into details but accidents WILL happen

OK, made another starter, same flour (organic rye). Fizzed up much more vigourously than the first batch, but all the loaves made from it have been poorly risen with a big 'cavity' inside. Threw that starter away, started yet another one. Same result. Thrown away starter once again.

I think I need to look around a bit for better recipes.

levitator · « **Reply #134 on:** 12 July, 2014, 11:01:47 pm »

Incidentally, I'm not using a bread machine (haven't got one). We have four breadmakers. My left hand, my right hand, my wife's left hand, my wife's right hand. Isn't that enough?

Mrs Pingu · « **Reply #135 on:** 12 July, 2014, 11:33:31 pm »

I had the cavity issue as well. I faffed about with different recipes before going back to the original but trying different techniques.
I eventually had success with the folding envelope technique described here http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/apr/14/make-your-own-sourdough
Then I put it in a linen lined banneton to rise, but not for too long or you get the big pocket at the top. I also found that I had to cover the dough with a damp cloth because if I put the banneton in a plastic bag the dough sticks to the linen when I turn it out of the banneton.

There is a lot of black magic spoken about sourdough, I got offered countless 'foolproof' recipes but I reckon it's a bit like cycling shorts - trial and error til you find what works for you.

Gattopardo · « **Reply #136 on:** 13 July, 2014, 04:41:00 pm »

Did you use yoghurt or fruit in the starter or just flour and water?

levitator · « **Reply #137 on:** 13 July, 2014, 06:26:19 pm »

Quote from: Gattopardo on 13 July, 2014, 04:41:00 pm

Did you use yoghurt or fruit in the starter or just flour and water?

No, just flour and water. OK time to look up this yoghurt, fruit idea, never heard of that one. What I think happened with my second and third batchs, the stuff fizzed up too early and lost its potency before I got around to making the bread, I need to slow it down somehow (send it up the Tourmalet!).

Mrs Pingu · « **Reply #138 on:** 13 July, 2014, 07:45:25 pm »

Quote from: levitator on 13 July, 2014, 06:26:19 pm

Quote from: Gattopardo on 13 July, 2014, 04:41:00 pm
Did you use yoghurt or fruit in the starter or just flour and water?
No, just flour and water. OK time to look up this yoghurt, fruit idea, never heard of that one. What I think happened with my second and third batchs, the stuff fizzed up too early and lost its potency before I got around to making the bread, I need to slow it down somehow (send it up the Tourmalet!).

Make the dough before the starter collapses or put it in the fridge to retard it a bit.

Tail End Charlie · « **Reply #139 on:** 14 July, 2014, 02:51:09 pm »

I have a jar in the fridge. Whenever I want to make a sourdough I take it out 24 hours before I want to start to make the loaf, refresh it (add flour and water and stir) leave it and use half the following day in the loaf. The remainder I put back in the fridge. Sourdough definitely has a different taste, not to everyone's liking (my wife dislikes it) but I love it. It isn't a quick loaf to make though as I find the longer the rising and proving the better the taste.

Gattopardo · « **Reply #140 on:** 17 September, 2014, 08:12:44 am »

Ah ha, made another starter from a wholemeal flour, water and bits of rhubarb.

Am making three different loaves today, a rye, a spelt and a normal bread flour dough. Having added 75g of water and 50 grams of white bread flour roughly I added some 50g of starter to each new pot, then left for 8 or so hours. Then feeding the starter with 50 grams of flour and 75 grams of water. This is done as the starter still contains bits of rhubarb and is very active. The two new yeast will be added complete in to the dough and when mixed I will put both the dough's in to the fridge till the dough's have doubled in size.

Then knocking the dough back for a second prove at room temperature in the tin that the bread will be baked in. Lets see what happens.

Gattopardo · « **Reply #141 on:** 17 September, 2014, 11:51:00 pm »

Blog post -----gattopardo calling orson come in orson.....gattoaprdo calling orson come in or....

Well the best laid plans of mice and sourdough. After running around this morning to make sure that I have spelt and rye flour. Finally I started making the breads, firstly I added the starter to a little water to make up the water content for the rye bread and then added the the rye flour and the same amount of bread flour. then a little salt. This is a recipe I had misread and didn't see bread flour being added until after along list of differing seeds that I wasn't adding. Small screen and scim reading... Opps so the first bit was just starter a bit of water and judt rye and salt. The mix was very wet hence checking and noticing the error. So once noticed I added the bread flour and then did the process described. Folding the mix for a few minutes leaving the mix to stand for 15 mins then a couple of minutes folding doing that three times. Then stuck the whole lot, bowl covered in tin foil, in fridge for the first prove of at least 12+ hours.

The second experiment was a spelt was once again the starter that was up and active then I added a bit of water to make it up to the required level then, added the spelt flour and salt straight and then folded the mix again doing the few minutes then left for 15 minutes then did some folding again then a third go. I then left the dough that was quite sticky then left that for a bit on top of the fridge, where the starter lives, but when came back to it the bread was dry. Handled the dough with wet hands and then stuck the dough in a jane asher poundland non stick loaf pan. How much was it do I hear you shout

Cutting the top and stuck the lot in the fridge with a damp tea towel on top of the pan making sure that it doesn't touch the top of the mix.

Then I saw I had some left over fed starter and thought I'add some more water, some atta flour and salt, to see what would happen. Have used the couple of minutes folding technique then leaving it to sit for 15 minutes three times. Then stuck the whole lot in to the fridge with a covered over damp tea towel.

Looking back I should have done just one, but got a little fixated and logic went out the window. Sort think I had to do it to prove something to myself or the world. No idea what it was and why, cos that's a hell of alot of bread. I made sure I kept the flour water salt ratios correct for each bread from the recipes I found.

The differences from my usual mix was adding the starter to the water and kneading and not folding. I think keeping the dough in the fridge for at 24 - 36 hours should increase the taste so they say. So am going to go for either time or till the dough has doubled. But unsure what will happen as the dough seems to have gained a dry skin.

Will report once more....Nanu nanu or have I created three mixes of shazbat.

Tail End Charlie · « **Reply #142 on:** 18 September, 2014, 06:51:30 pm »

Interesting write up Gatto, would like to hear how you get on in particular the taste. I find spelt does need a much longer prove to bring out the taste, when I first tried spelt I was a bit underwhelmed, but the longer prove makes it much better.
On a different note I see Aldi have two types of flour as one of their specials and both look like they are worth a go. I'll certainly be giving them a whirl.
Edit. The flours are specials this Sunday (21/9)

Pancho · « **Reply #143 on:** 19 September, 2014, 08:32:40 pm »

My bread maker died a while ago. It's had a tough working life of over a decade of feeding the family.

Rather than buy a new one, I've been doing it the primitive way - by hand. Just googled for an "easy bread recipe" and followed it. No pictures, I'm afraid as the loaves tend to get wolfed PDQ. But it's good stuff - very good. And not too much hassle provided I get cracking as soon as I get home from work (all that rising and proving takes forever and I like to be in bed early).

Tail End Charlie · « **Reply #144 on:** 20 September, 2014, 09:51:40 pm »

I've never had a bread maker, but I love making it by hand, the kneading I find therapeutic and I can think of loads of other things whilst doing it. It does take a little forward planning but things like proving can be delayed by putting in the fridge overnight. I get a kick every time I look at the risen dough.

Gattopardo · « **Reply #145 on:** 21 September, 2014, 06:02:26 pm »

Finally got back to the bread, have been a bit busy

The first bread I pulled out of the fridge, there was a bit of cold burn from a bit that wasn't covered with tinfoil. Left the bread out for a few hours to warm up and to prove some more. Just now knocked the bread back with wet hands and split the dough in to two balls one in to a silicone tray while the other I placed in to a pyrex bowl lid.

Does any one have any hints and tips to use an unglazed ceramic/clay loaf pan. Reading on the net I am a bit lost. Do I coat the inside with oil and heat the pan to season the insdie of the pan. Thanks for the advice.

Gattopardo · « **Reply #146 on:** 21 September, 2014, 11:40:24 pm »

Oven up to temperature and the bread has gone in...Should have baked one from cold oven to temp and then the other when the oven was at temp.

Photos to be added once done

Kim · « **Reply #147 on:** 22 September, 2014, 07:22:56 pm »

In ^_SCIENCE news, it turns out that the combustible gas sensor^[1] that I've installed in our kitchen^[2] doubles as a freshly-baked bread detector. I assume it's responding to the ethanol vapour from the yeast (it exhibits a similar response if you waft a bottle of meths or a freshly baked roll near the sensor).

_{[1] Catalyst-coated wire in a Wheatstone bridge type thing, so not particularly discriminate where hydrocarbons are concerned.
[2] Useful safety accessory for the hard-of-smelling person^[3] who rightly considers electric hobs to be a work of Stan.
[3] Barakta, not I. My nose is over-sensitive.}

Gattopardo · « **Reply #148 on:** 22 September, 2014, 10:52:46 pm »

The loaf was a rye and bread flour mixed. The first knock back revealed an airy dough, the I folded a few times. The seperated into two different rolls to create two different loaves. Never know when the bread is ready after the second prove and have to be careful not to knock the dough so there is a loss of the rise.

The bread came out cooked but quite dense, nice flavour and texture but dense.

Tail End Charlie · « **Reply #149 on:** 23 September, 2014, 06:55:09 pm »

Rye flour does tend to make a very dense loaf, hence mixing with other flour. I do like heavy bread but I know many don't.
Re the knocking back stage, I put the dough in whatever I'm going to bake it in and so it is easy to avoid pushing it back by mistake. If not using a loaf tin I just leave it on a baking tray.

I looked at the Aldi flour I mentioned above and third on the list of ingredients is calcium carbonate. Chalk!! What's that all about? Reinforces my belief that it's worth buying decent flour and spending a little extra.

Gatto - I've only used a flower pot for baking, I oiled it and put in the oven to season, but the second loaf I baked cracked it and I've not tried another since. The loaves were ok though and it was only a cheap pot so a better quality one might be better.