Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?

[L CC]

Nuts are OK.

But peanuts are legumes. 

Hell, anything's OK. Eat whatever you like.

Almonds- 546 kcal, 47g fat, 22g carb per 100g
Hazelnuts- 627kcal, 60g fat, 17g carb per 100g
Walnuts- 654kcal, 65g fat, 14g carb per 100g
Brazil nuts- 65kcal, 66g fat, 12g carb per 100g
Pecans- 760kcal, 79g fat, 15g carb per 100g
Macadamia nuts- 715kcal, 76g fat, 13g carb per 100g
Peanuts- 567kcal, 49g fat, 16.1g carb per 100g

We're eating a lot of nuts- snack food, ground up as a flour substitute, mixed with yoghurt/cream for pudding.

I'm feeling a bit ambivalent about the diet this week. I'm missing fruit and big wow, I can ride for hours without bonk, but the scales are not being rewarding. I've committed to six months of it though, so we'll see.

[mattc]

Oh of course. And I expect Red Kites are actually fish </David Mitchell>

[Chris S]

Yup, nuts are fine.

Sadly, peanuts aren't nuts - but a decent breakfast nevertheless  . Not allowed on Keto.

ETA: Bugger - beaten to it by The Boss. 

[hulver]

I decided to give this diet a try. Fuelling on longer rides is something that I've never managed to do right. I read The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance and it persuaded me to give it a try.

I'm going to stick at it for at least 3 months.

The initial results have been impressive. I've been on it for about 3 weeks now, and lost about 4.5kg so far. I expected quite a lot of initial loss as from what I've read, the body holds less water while you're eating like this. I seem to have stabilised at about 0.5kg per week now.

Snacking on nuts, and eating lots of cheese. I do need to find more variety though. I'm getting a bit bored of cheese and salad.

I also need to monitor my protein intake as well, as I think I'm eating too much meat at the moment.

My appetite is way down, I don't feel the highs and lows like I did eating carbs. I can eat till I'm full, and not be hungry again a few hours later. I bought some nuts to snack on when I first started, as I used to be constantly stuffing my face at work. The amount I bought to last a week is still not finished after 3 weeks. I just don't feel the need.

My biggest problem so far, is lack of energy. I'm unfit after winter anyway, and having got back on the bike again it feels like I'm permanently bonked. Cold and lack of time is limiting my distance right now (I'm not hardcore like some of you) and the most I've managed is 15km ish. That was due to lack of time though, not lack of energy.

I'm just not enjoying it very much, as I feel so "meh" while I'm riding my bike.

I'm going to stick at it though, hopefully I can train through this and improve my fitness. I think it would be a lot easier if you were already fit before starting on this diet.

[Chris S]

Excellent! I hope it works out for you.

The lack of oomph will fade slowly, and you should get your energy back fairly soon. Don't forget the sodium thing - it really makes a difference; I have a mug of bouillon for elevenses every day. Drink plenty of water.

Getting the protein level right is key. I'm aiming for about 100g a day, which is about 1.5g/Kg of LBM. I keep carbs under 50g every day, and under 30g most days. The rest of my food comes from fat. This isn't as hard as it sounds - here's what I had yesterday:

Breakfast - Strawberries & double cream.

Lunch - chicken breast, ham, cheese, salad with oily dressing, low-carb brownie.

Tea - Low carb cottage pie, green beans, yogurt.

Snacks - Handful of Almonds, handful of Macadamia nuts

Beverages - "Bullet proof coffee" (Coffee with cream and added Coconut Oil), Bouillon, Green tea

[Manotea]

I have seen the future, and it is... Kippers for breakfast.

Back in the day I used to travel on business by train, I'd always breakfast on the train (the poor man's first class ticket), and have Kippers and lashings of jammy toast and tea. Perfect.

[L CC]

I have seen the future, and it is... Kippers for breakfast.

Back in the day I used to travel on business by train, I'd always breakfast on the train (the poor man's first class ticket), and have Kippers and lashings of jammy toast and tea. Perfect.

Sorry. Toast & jam is a BIG no-no.

[Julian]

Kippers on the train? You've a stronger stomach than I have!

[Andrew]

Kippers on the train?

Wasn't that a film?

[Julian]

It would certainly have been scarier than Snakes on a Plane.

[Cudzoziemiec]

With carbo-loaded star, Barley Granger (before he played Nelson... )

[itsbruce]

I have seen the future, and it is... Kippers for breakfast.

Back in the day I used to travel on business by train, I'd always breakfast on the train (the poor man's first class ticket), and have Kippers and lashings of jammy toast and tea. Perfect.

Kippers do make a fine breakfast. I mostly do porridge, but occasionally poach a smoked haddock in milk (and drink the milk used, of course). On a haddock morning, though, I never have as much energy for the commute as I get from porridge; the haddock is all protein and very little else. Kippers, otoh, pack a healthy dose of fat.

[Chris S]

Interesting summary of some of the arguments for a Keto diet, with lots of citations for your late night reading .

http://www.ispub.com/journal/the-internet-journal-of-nutrition-and-wellness/volume-4-number-2/arguments-in-favor-of-ketogenic-diets.html#sthash.3K27H8Kl.cj07uWUf.dpbs

[Manotea]

I have seen the future -  Sugar Snaps (Mange-tout to you), the ultimate snack food.

Not doing my carbon footprint much good though; Sainsburys import from Guatemala!

[hulver]

Presuming I last on this diet until LEL, I'm wondering what on earth I'll eat during the ride.

Considering that most of the food available at controls will be rather carb heavy, might it be a question of bouncing the controls and consuming other food on the journey instead?

[mcshroom]

LEL on cream, peperami and babybels

[L CC]

Presuming I last on this diet until LEL, I'm wondering what on earth I'll eat during the ride.

Considering that most of the food available at controls will be rather carb heavy, might it be a question of bouncing the controls and consuming other food on the journey instead?

We were thinking the same. We've paid upfront for an all in ride, where we'll want to sleep off route and can't don't eat most of what's supplied. 

Babybels ftw.

[itsbruce]

Nuts.  Amazing wee storehouses of nutrients, very calorie dense.

[Chris S]

Funny this should come up now.

Tomorrow, we are riding the Up the Uts 200 from Henham; which is known for its audaxy catering (the 200 consists of three loops, returning to base each time for more carb-loading).

I'm considering an experiment; essentially - eat as I would normally have done; so embrace the Apple Pie and Custard, and wallow in the Beans on Toast. And then see what happens to my keto-state. Will it break my ketosis, or will the fact that I'm exercising soak up all the insulin/glycogen, with the resumption of ketosis soon after we've finished?

The most worrying condition would be - that ketone production is suspended when the carbs go in (this is inevitable, ketone production is always 2nd to glucose management, because high blood glucose is a toxic state that the body has to deal with by releasing insulin - and that insulin in turn blocks mobilisation of stored fat and ketone production) and I'm left with no bloody energy at all, having "trained" my body to burn ketones, during the last three months.

It's a worthwhile experiment, I think. So - I'll test my blood ketone levels first thing tomorrow, after the ride, and then again Sunday morning - and beyond if ketosis is completely broken, to see how long it takes to re-establish.

[hulver]

I'm considering an experiment; essentially - eat as I would normally have done; so embrace the Apple Pie and Custard, and wallow in the Beans on Toast. And then see what happens to my keto-state. Will it break my ketosis, or will the fact that I'm exercising soak up all the insulin/glycogen, with the resumption of ketosis soon after we've finished?

Good luck!

I'm mainly thinking of the chances of you surviving while tucking into cake in front of boab if she's not having any

[Chris S]

I'm considering an experiment; essentially - eat as I would normally have done; so embrace the Apple Pie and Custard, and wallow in the Beans on Toast. And then see what happens to my keto-state. Will it break my ketosis, or will the fact that I'm exercising soak up all the insulin/glycogen, with the resumption of ketosis soon after we've finished?

Good luck!

I'm mainly thinking of the chances of you surving while tucking into cake in front of boab if she's not having any

Cake would indeed be a shortcut to bruises, I suspect. Thankfully, she doesn't like apple pie and custard, or beans - so those are safe options 

[Andrew]

Nuts.  Amazing wee storehouses of nutrients, very calorie dense.

Sorry? I thought there were no 'superfoods'?

[velovoice]

...then see what happens to my keto-state. Will it break my ketosis, or will the fact that I'm exercising soak up all the insulin/glycogen, with the resumption of ketosis soon after we've finished?.

As a fellow keto-adapted cyclist... DON'T DO IT! 

Eating more carbs than your tolerance level WILL break ketosis. There is no such thing as "soaking up all the insulin/glycogen" i.e. as a temporary/emergency mode of operation. Okay, sure, you may get back into ketosis fairly quickly once you resume a low-carb diet (after finishing the audax), but you'll have the whole re-adaptation to the ketogenic state to do all over again. It takes just as long the second (or third...) time as it did the first time. No short cuts.  For instance, you'll lose that top end again... plus have to endure whatever other niggles you had while adjusting the first time.

This is well covered in Volek & Phinney's follow-up book "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance".

Just sayin'. 

[Chris S]

Wow! Another Ketonaut  .

I was tempted to try relaxing the carb restriction, on the basis of those who do TKD (Targeted Keto Diet). The only information out there about TKD seems to be for weight-lifters who are missing their top-ends without some extra carbs around workout time - but they seem to be able to up the carb intake without unduly disturbing their ketosis - but one wonders how much they are "keto-adapted" for endurance work.

I'll see how I feel tomorrow - but I certainly don't want to break my adaptation as gaining it was hard fought, so perhaps I need to stick with it after all.

All of which means - yes, food at controls is (on the face of it) limited. "Cheese & Bacon please..."

[campagman]

The 'Paleo for Athletes' book says that you should eat Paleo except immediately before, during and after exercise when it's ok to eat carbs.