Arrivée est arrivé!

[arkle]

where folks rant forever about utterly pointless things

Isn't that what being a human being is all about? 

Ever more it seems, but it's just so tedious ... 

[whosatthewheel]

If I want to know about tubeless tyres or steel frames or everesting, there is a wealth of information available on the internet... that's where I normally go.

Yep - but getting an audaxer's perspective is always good.

I've used them for a 400 and some shorter rides... in a nutshell, they're great when they don't give you problems. Main issues

1) They cost a fortune
2) They last about half the mileage of a decent clincher... every time I approached a couple of thousand miles, the frequency of puncture/spray became unsustainable and it was time for a new tyre

The main (and only) advantage is that they tend to fix small punctures without any bother... the same tiny punctures can result in a massive waste of time on clinchers. I had a microscopic thorn in a tyre which punctured three tubes at the Kidderminster Killer. I wouldn't have noticed anything, had I been on tubeless.

[quixoticgeek]

It's not about what it's easy and what it's hard and it's not even about whether it is Audax or it is not, clearly it is not, but that is immaterial, we had cover prictures of people touring around the world, and that was great.
I am not even saying that Everesting is not interesting, I thought about going up and down Bwlch-Y-Groes myself.

What I am saying is that IT IS NOT a form of long distance cycling, simply because you are not going very far at all and you don't have to face the challenges of long distance cycling, here's a few...

-being stranded with a mechanical a long way from any help
-having to negotiate foul weather a very long way from any shelter
-navigating your way to the next control/village/refuge for the night
-managing your time so that you get to X before the control closes/before it gets dark/before the forecasted storm approaches
-making sure you carry enough food and water until the next control/village/gas station

Since AUK and therefore Arrivee promotes long distance cyling (which is all of the above and more), which is our very own USP, why should it promote Everesting, which is going up and down a mile stretch of road n times and is none of the above? 

Because it doesn't have to just be going up and down a 1 mile stretch of road. Not to mention that if you wanted to, you could do a 200k DIY by doing 100 out and back runs down a single 1km length of road. Tho you may have to enter it by emailing the orgs, as the form doesn't allow that many controls by default. Conversely, if you could find a hill with say a 2500m total ascent over a 50km length, you could do an Everest attempt as a DIY, with the a start control, the top of the peak as your second control, the base as your 3rd, repeat for a total of 4 circuits. Do that within a 27hr time limit. Bingo, it's an Audax! AAA points too.

I got my copy of awoowoo yesterday, I had a flick through the Everesting article and noticed that while it mentioned doing 89 circuits of the same hill, it didn't say what the total distance covered was. Either that or my quick flick through didn't spot it. If it's a 1 mile hill, and she did it 89 times, that's still 1.6*168 268.8km. Thats an long way! On a bike. Sounds like long distance cycling to me. Just a slightly different take on it.

J

[quixoticgeek]

I'm sure the editor would welcome more copy from audaxers.  I bet a conversation with him might result in a few creative tweaks to tell our stories in a fresh way. He's bound to be interested to hear directly suggestions about topics to cover - he's probably following his instinct about what we'd find interesting so steers on topics and thoughts about how to get them written must be a good idea.  Personally, I would love to hear more about adventure racing and how audaxers experience these events, I'd be fascinated to know about some of the technical issues that come up (i'm experimenting with tubeless and would love to know what other people think) and to hear the outcome of the steel vs alloy debate that's been flying around on twitter.

I emailed asking about how to submit an article and whether an idea I had would be suitable. I never got a reply, not even a thank you for your interest, but that isn't what we have in mind... I'm assuming it got eaten by a spam filter somewhere.

J

[Cudzoziemiec]

She mentioned a total of 125km, so not as far as your guess but still further than some audaxes which get written up in Arrivee. Naish Hill is steep but short, like most of the hills round here. But it's still not an audax, even if the distance is similar. I'm not sure that necessarily disqualifies it from publication in Arrivee though.

BTW, I don't think you could do an DIY of 100 out and back laps. My understanding of the rules is that repeated laps are expressly disallowed; but I'll wait for someone who really knows the rules to confirm or refute that for certain.

[quixoticgeek]

She mentioned a total of 125km, so not as far as your guess but still further than some audaxes which get written up in Arrivee. Naish Hill is steep but short, like most of the hills round here. But it's still not an audax, even if the distance is similar. I'm not sure that necessarily disqualifies it from publication in Arrivee though.

I'm looking forward to reading the article fully when I have the chance, it's not an Audax, but it's related to my interest of cycling a long way.

BTW, I don't think you could do an DIY of 100 out and back laps. My understanding of the rules is that repeated laps are expressly disallowed; but I'll wait for someone who really knows the rules to confirm or refute that for certain.

I'm happy to be wrong about that. I haven't seen that specified anywhere when sorting out DIY's, is it hidden in the regs somewhere?

J

[Cudzoziemiec]

She mentioned a total of 125km, so not as far as your guess but still further than some audaxes which get written up in Arrivee. Naish Hill is steep but short, like most of the hills round here. But it's still not an audax, even if the distance is similar. I'm not sure that necessarily disqualifies it from publication in Arrivee though.

I'm looking forward to reading the article fully when I have the chance, it's not an Audax, but it's related to my interest of cycling a long way.

Do read it. I know the hill and vaguely recognise some of the faces. That doesn't mean it's encouraged me to ride the hill! (there is a less steep back way )

BTW, I don't think you could do an DIY of 100 out and back laps. My understanding of the rules is that repeated laps are expressly disallowed; but I'll wait for someone who really knows the rules to confirm or refute that for certain.

I'm happy to be wrong about that. I haven't seen that specified anywhere when sorting out DIY's, is it hidden in the regs somewhere?

J

Pretty sure I've seen it mentioned a few times but I couldn't point you to chapter and verse. You could always read the regs when you have time and nothing better to do.

Even if it were allowed, to me it sounds pretty boring, which is just one of the reasons I'm happy to read about others Everesting but won't be doing it myself.

[quixoticgeek]

Do read it. I know the hill and vaguely recognise some of the faces. That doesn't mean it's encouraged me to ride the hill! (there is a less steep back way )

I shall!

Pretty sure I've seen it mentioned a few times but I couldn't point you to chapter and verse. You could always read the regs when you have time and nothing better to do.

Even if it were allowed, to me it sounds pretty boring, which is just one of the reasons I'm happy to read about others Everesting but won't be doing it myself.

It sounds pretty boring to most people, but then I've heard the same said about cycling in .NL. "But there's no hills, isn't it boring?" "It's so flat, don't you get bored?". And then there is the headwinds. Slog into a 25kph+ headwind for 110km on dead flat roads, in the cold, in the dark... Some might call that a boring nightmare, some might call it type II fun, Randoneurs NL call it "Luctor et Emergo", and that ride is happening again on 2019/11/19...

I've been pondering having a go at an Everesting attempt, as I know that climbing is my weakness, so this would be a way to train for a goal, and perhaps get over my bad experiences with inclines. I've got in my mind a hill to use, it's 16km long, and does about 440m, so I'd have to do 20 circuits. I think that is in the territory of long distance... But I'm wondering if there are better hills out there... Choosing the right hill seems quite important. Too steep and it requires a lot more power to get up the same total height. Too shallow and you're doing a lot of extra distance for the same total height. Choose a hill with good switch backs up and down, and you're in the territory of it's good on the up, but slower on the down, meaning more time awake (Everesting doesn't allow sleeping during an attempt). If you had a perfect 5% hill, and it was 500m, you'd need to do 18 circuits, each of 20km. ~360km. But finding that perfect hill...

If AUK does allow the same bit of road to be used, doing a Everest as a AUK DIY would be an even harder challenge, as now you got a time limit!

J

[Greenbank]

Because it doesn't have to just be going up and down a 1 mile stretch of road. Not to mention that if you wanted to, you could do a 200k DIY by doing 100 out and back runs down a single 1km length of road. Tho you may have to enter it by emailing the orgs, as the form doesn't allow that many controls by default. Conversely, if you could find a hill with say a 2500m total ascent over a 50km length, you could do an Everest attempt as a DIY, with the a start control, the top of the peak as your second control, the base as your 3rd, repeat for a total of 4 circuits. Do that within a 27hr time limit. Bingo, it's an Audax! AAA points too.

No you can't. Routes should not reuse the same roads in the same direction if at all possible, so repeated loops of a single circuit are not possible.

(The "if at all possible" bit is there in case you wanted to use one control as a base and do a bunch of separate loops but there were limited roads to/from that common control. You're OK re-using some roads just as minimally as possible.)

The DIY organiser is the first port of call on whether a route is suitable or not. I wouldn't expect any of the DIY organisers to allow a DIY route with obvious repeated loops. Something like Everesting, which requires the same road to be ridden again and again, is exactly the kind of thing the restriction was put in place to stop.

Don't think it's in the regs, I think the route guidance is part of the Organiser's Handbook (i.e. it was written at a time when DIYs didn't exist.)

I definitely think there's a place in Awoowoo for articles like the Everesting one.

[quixoticgeek]

No you can't. Routes should not reuse the same roads in the same direction if at all possible, so repeated loops of a single circuit are not possible.

(The "if at all possible" bit is there in case you wanted to use one control as a base and do a bunch of separate loops but there were limited roads to/from that common control. You're OK re-using some roads just as minimally as possible.)

The DIY organiser is the first port of call on whether a route is suitable or not. I wouldn't expect any of the DIY organisers to allow a DIY route with obvious repeated loops. Something like Everesting, which requires the same road to be ridden again and again, is exactly the kind of thing the restriction was put in place to stop.

Don't think it's in the regs, I think the route guidance is part of the Organiser's Handbook (i.e. it was written at a time when DIYs didn't exist.)

If it's not in the regs, then surely the diy orgs would be turning down a ride that complies with the letter of the regulations, but does not comply with the spirit of them? Given the ease of auto validation with a GPX now, perhaps it would be worth having it state somewhere on the DIY page that you can't repeat the same roads, as you do above. I've read most of the AUK website (note: auk website does not cure insomnia...), and this is the first I've come across it.

I definitely think there's a place in Awoowoo for articles like the Everesting one.

Agreed...

J

[grams]

If it's not in the regs, then surely the diy orgs would be turning down a ride that complies with the letter of the regulations, but does not comply with the spirit of them?

It is in the regs:
"A route may visit a control more than once, but routes consisting of repeated passes over the same circuit will not normally be approved."

I definitely think there's a place in Awoowoo for articles like the Everesting one.

Yep.

[Greenbank]

Of course I found it just after I made my post. As grams said it's in the regs:

9.8.2 (b) "A route may visit a control more than once, but routes consisting of repeated passes over the same circuit will not normally be approved"

[whosatthewheel]

I definitely think there's a place in Awoowoo for articles like the Everesting one.

I never questioned the article... I questioned the cover. I don't care about the content, if I am not interested, I don't read it (I didn't read the article yet). Conversely, the cover of a magazine is there to promote or celebrate something... should AUK promote or celebrate Everesting?... I think not, but that's my (apparently wrong) opinion

[quixoticgeek]

Of course I found it just after I made my post. As grams said it's in the regs:

9.8.2 (b) "A route may visit a control more than once, but routes consisting of repeated passes over the same circuit will not normally be approved"

Any chance we could have this put out in the FAQ? I can't be the only one who's had thoughts like this, and it might save the DIY orgs from having to tell someone that they can't do a ride they've applied for...

J

[Redlight]

I emailed asking about how to submit an article and whether an idea I had would be suitable. I never got a reply, not even a thank you for your interest, but that isn't what we have in mind... I'm assuming it got eaten by a spam filter somewhere.

Who did you email? That doesn't sound like Ged (the managing editor).  He's normally very responsive to readers' ideas.

[quixoticgeek]

I emailed asking about how to submit an article and whether an idea I had would be suitable. I never got a reply, not even a thank you for your interest, but that isn't what we have in mind... I'm assuming it got eaten by a spam filter somewhere.

Who did you email? That doesn't sound like Ged (the managing editor).  He's normally very responsive to readers' ideas.

and @me.com address I got out the back of the last edition of Awoowoo. Sent from my gmail account.

J

[mattc]

... should AUK promote or celebrate Everesting?... I think not, but that's my (apparently wrong) opinion

What a drama queen! Some people disagree with you, and now you're spouting stuff like that. Hilarious!

Has Nigel Farage joined AUK? "People don't like me saying this, but ... !"

[Greenbank]

I definitely think there's a place in Awoowoo for articles like the Everesting one.

I never questioned the article... I questioned the cover. I don't care about the content, if I am not interested, I don't read it (I didn't read the article yet). Conversely, the cover of a magazine is there to promote or celebrate something... should AUK promote or celebrate Everesting?... I think not, but that's my (apparently wrong) opinion

I definitely think there's a place in Awoowoo (including the cover) for articles like the Everesting one.

I've no problem if AUK promotes/celebrates Everesting.

Everesting may not currently be within the remit of AUK but it's still riding your bike a long way, or not quite such a long way but still a really hilly rides (like 100km rides with lots of AAA).

I think it's closer to the Ordre des Cols Durs (http://www.aukweb.net/ocd/) stuff that AUK joined forces with (or absorbed) a few years ago.

[Kim]

I definitely think there's a place in Awoowoo for articles like the Everesting one.

I never questioned the article... I questioned the cover. I don't care about the content, if I am not interested, I don't read it (I didn't read the article yet). Conversely, the cover of a magazine is there to promote or celebrate something... should AUK promote or celebrate Everesting?... I think not, but that's my (apparently wrong) opinion

That might simply come down to Everesting being more conducive to cover-quality photography than actual long-distance cycling...

I wouldn't worry unless they make a habit of it.  Nothing wrong with the occasional article about something other than audax, if nothing else it makes people aware of what this thing people are doing they may not have heard of is all about.

[j_a_m_e_s_]

Of course I found it just after I made my post. As grams said it's in the regs:

9.8.2 (b) "A route may visit a control more than once, but routes consisting of repeated passes over the same circuit will not normally be approved"

Whilst agreeing with whosatthewheel in that it's just not Audax, I can't really see a reason why AUK couldn't promote this. It is after all long distance. I think Boxhill equates to nearly a 400km event. And it's got a be worth a couple of AAA points right?

It's a shit load of stamps at either end, mind.

[Greenbank]

Of course I found it just after I made my post. As grams said it's in the regs:

9.8.2 (b) "A route may visit a control more than once, but routes consisting of repeated passes over the same circuit will not normally be approved"

Whilst agreeing with Paulo in that it's just not Audax, I can't really see a reason why AUK couldn't promote this. It is after all long distance. I think Boxhill equates to nearly a 400km event. And it's got a be worth a couple of AAA points right?

It's worth 8.75 AAA points at least...

IIRC a certain Audaxer used to do hill repeats in the middle of DIYxGPS rides to increase the amount of AAA points they'd get for a ride. (Personally I don't think this should have been allowed but never bothered voicing a proper concern about it.)

[j_a_m_e_s_]

Of course I found it just after I made my post. As grams said it's in the regs:

9.8.2 (b) "A route may visit a control more than once, but routes consisting of repeated passes over the same circuit will not normally be approved"

Whilst agreeing with Paulo in that it's just not Audax, I can't really see a reason why AUK couldn't promote this. It is after all long distance. I think Boxhill equates to nearly a 400km event. And it's got a be worth a couple of AAA points right?

It's worth 8.75 AAA points at least...

IIRC a certain Audaxer used to do hill repeats in the middle of DIYxGPS rides to increase the amount of AAA points they'd get for a ride. (Personally I don't think this should have been allowed but never bothered voicing a proper concern about it.)

You'd hope!

[whosatthewheel]

What a drama queen! Some people disagree with you, and now you're spouting stuff like that. Hilarious!

I was referring to a private conversation I had with Arrivee editorial staff... apologies for not making it clear in my post

[whosatthewheel]

I definitely think there's a place in Awoowoo for articles like the Everesting one.

I never questioned the article... I questioned the cover. I don't care about the content, if I am not interested, I don't read it (I didn't read the article yet). Conversely, the cover of a magazine is there to promote or celebrate something... should AUK promote or celebrate Everesting?... I think not, but that's my (apparently wrong) opinion

That might simply come down to Everesting being more conducive to cover-quality photography than actual long-distance cycling...

I wouldn't worry unless they make a habit of it.  Nothing wrong with the occasional article about something other than audax, if nothing else it makes people aware of what this thing people are doing they may not have heard of is all about.

Yes, but does the magazine cover need to be "someone on a bike"? How about a cover showing some volunteers handing out hot food?  How about AUK promoted volunteering as something "cool", rather than Everesting?

I would say the heroes of AUK are not those who rack up hundreds of points and awards or have the luxury of time and money to travel around the world on a bicycle, but rather those who make Audax events happen.

[LiamFitz]

I emailed asking about how to submit an article and whether an idea I had would be suitable. I never got a reply, not even a thank you for your interest, but that isn't what we have in mind... I'm assuming it got eaten by a spam filter somewhere.

Who did you email? That doesn't sound like Ged (the managing editor).  He's normally very responsive to readers' ideas.

and @me.com address I got out the back of the last edition of Awoowoo. Sent from my gmail account.

J

Do give it another try - it would be a shame if you were discouraged.

Loads of cracking thoughts being expressed here... I really think it would make the mag even better if people pinged Ged with their suggestions (and even better... putting their hands up to draft the copy)