Breaking the supermarket habit...

[Regulator]

Moved it for you 

This is a topic I'm interested in, too.  I'm lucky in that I live in West London where there are a plethora of good, independent food stores.

But when I want cat food or washing liquid or something, it's hard not to go to bloody Tescos.  I try to shop in the Co-op or Waitrose instead because they have much more ethical trading models.  Shame Waitrose is so shockingly expensive...

Shockingly expensive... or realistically priced?  What most people don't realise is that much of our weekly shop is subsidised by the producers (through bulk buying and some dodgy business practices by the big four supermarkets).

In Waitrose, you're paying nearer the true cost of the item.

I'd venture their mark up is also better; less volume, better quality, higher mark up.

No, not hugely different, as Witrose have no shareholders and thus no dividend to worry about.

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

I get my main shopping from a farm shop; they deliver once a week. It's very expensive, but I try to save money elsewhere. I use the local Tesco Metro for my top-up shopping.

[David Martin]

I have heard rumours of acquaintances of friends of gamekeepers who have lots of pheasant they find it hard to shift. Prices however are high, 20p a bird.

Through another source, Farm gate lamb, butchered to spec for about 40-50 per whole lamb.

I may be getting another freezer. And rabbit is cheap and plentiful.

..d

[frankly frankie]

Back before Sunday trading, the Co-op in my town (the only supermarket we have) used to turn the chiller cabinets off at weekends ...

This potentially could be a good energy saving measure if the cabinets are empty?

But in practice it just made shopping at the Co-op on a Monday a very smelly experience.

I'm curious about the original posting ...

... I sold the car and turned vegetarian ... The next step I intend to take is ending the onging love affair with Tesco.

... the next step along which particular path ?

[mike]

Shockingly expensive... or realistically priced?  What most people don't realise is that much of our weekly shop is subsidised by the producers (through bulk buying and some dodgy business practices by the big four supermarkets).

In Waitrose, you're paying nearer the true cost of the item.

nearER possibly, but still a shocking markup. 

eg. welsh lamb - farm price 1.50 / kg.   Waitrose price 9.00 / kg.

that's HUGE margins for butchering, distributing and selling.

when lamb was cheaper at the farm gate, Dad (a sheep farmer) once had a huge barney in waitrose newmarket when he saw lamb he was selling at 30p / kg on sale for about 6 pounds / kg.

but yes, farmers hate dealing with tesco even more because they're absolutely horrible to suppliers.

[andygates]

Why is that, though?  If the model's efficient then they ought to be able to be nice instead of nasty.  See, the problem with my local shops is that they're a damn sight less convenient.  The butchers close at 4 and the stuff in the grocer is limp and bruised.  They complain about the Tesco, but the Tesco offers me better stuff and has hours that I can make use of when I get back from work. 

Methinks part of the solution isn't to boycott eebil supermarkets, but to encourage strong producer co-ops that get what their producers want.

[richie_b]

Why is that, though?  If the model's efficient then they ought to be able to be nice instead of nasty.  See, the problem with my local shops is that they're a damn sight less convenient.  The butchers close at 4 and the stuff in the grocer is limp and bruised.  They complain about the Tesco, but the Tesco offers me better stuff and has hours that I can make use of when I get back from work. 

Methinks part of the solution isn't to boycott eebil supermarkets, but to encourage strong producer co-ops that get what their producers want.

Andy
The model is efficient in the same way that sweat shops are very efficient.  Not sure where "nice" fits into this type of model.
Encouraging strong producer co-ops would be ethically sound, but ineffective since the producer would have to move from one to the other & there would need to be a market for the more expensive goods.  Add to this that producer co-ops are never going to be as powerful as Wal-Mart, Tesco etc & it seems utterly futile.
I'm also intrigued with the idea that supermarkets are efficient.  Looked at in a purely economic way, this is true, but virtually any other way of looking at it would give us a different answer (ruining countries economies & leaving thousands on subsistence wages & flying my food halfway round the world to get me food I don't need at a price below which I can afford doesn't seem very efficient to me).
Have you read Tescopoly, BTW?

[Ian H]

My customers tell me that Sainsburys are aggressive towards their suppliers, Tesco likewise, M&S becoming so. Waitrose supportive.

Almost off-topic, Halfords are also aggressive towards their suppliers.

[MSeries]

We get some stuff delivered from Goodness Direct - Online Health and Special Diet Food Store

[RogerT]

My customers tell me that Sainsburys are aggressive towards their suppliers, Tesco likewise, M&S becoming so. Waitrose supportive.

Almost off-topic, Halfords are also aggressive towards their suppliers.

Agressive is a bit of an understatement.  Tesco forced me to go in to work some years ago on Boxing Day because a load of soup had not been delivered by my company and if I did not sort it they would not be ordering any more.  Lovely people to deal with...NOT.

On another occasion the port of Felixstowe was shut due to high winds meaning we could not collect a couple of loads of tinned tomatos..Tesco's response..that is not our problem just get them delivered NOW !

They are arrogant, aggresive, unpleasant and if I never have to deal with them again it will be to soon.

[Charlotte]

It's the attitude towards the suppliers that worries me as much as the environmental thing.  Having read a lot of Monbiot's stuff about how the supermarkets operate, it's shocking.  They make their suppliers conform to ever more stringent specs, obliging them to do all the work for them in washing, packaging and labeling the fruit and veg for instance. 

If they then decide not to buy whatever it is from the supplier that week (say because it's not selling so well) then the supplier is left with a huge investment in producing a Tesco-spec product and a warehouse full of food that's not going to sell.

All the risk is passed to the supplier, to the point where they're terrified of offending the supermarket for fear of being put on a blacklist.  Tescos have even been know to approach suppliers for charitable donations to cover fund raisers that they are asked to participate in.  If the supplier doesn't cough up, then...

I buy most of my fruit and veg from the "Ealing Show Market" on the Uxbridge Road.  it's run by a bunch of Afghan guys who go and buy up the cheap stock at the Western International Market down at Heathrow.  When the supermarkets reject the stock for whatever reason (not to spec) then it gets sold off to the highest bidder. 

I eat whatever is good and cheap that week and it's amazing what he gets.  When Waitrose charge £2.99 for a punnet of physalis, I can have them for 99p for six.  Strawberries, asparagus, you name it, they get it.  Sometimes I see him peeling the supermarket labels off the packaging.  It's terrible.

Sure, it's been air-freighted into the UK, but the karma is the supermarkets' and not mine.  I'd not buy it directly from them.  I supplement it with UK grown apples, potatoes and other stuff that I buy in the Co-op and elsewhere. 

[Regulator]

Shockingly expensive... or realistically priced?  What most people don't realise is that much of our weekly shop is subsidised by the producers (through bulk buying and some dodgy business practices by the big four supermarkets).

In Waitrose, you're paying nearer the true cost of the item.

nearER possibly, but still a shocking markup. 

eg. welsh lamb - farm price 1.50 / kg.   Waitrose price 9.00 / kg.

that's HUGE margins for butchering, distributing and selling.

when lamb was cheaper at the farm gate, Dad (a sheep farmer) once had a huge barney in waitrose newmarket when he saw lamb he was selling at 30p / kg on sale for about 6 pounds / kg.

but yes, farmers hate dealing with tesco even more because they're absolutely horrible to suppliers.

As well as the butchering, distributing and selling, don't forget the staff costs (Waitrose are good to their staff - there's always an overabundance of applicants for any job), infrastructure costs, etc.

I agree that farmers need a better deal for their produce - but we have to be realistic about what it actually costs to produce and distribute food.  Agricultural subsidies have distorted the food market in most of the developed (and developing) world for so long that we no longer really understand the true costs of food.

[Ian H]

Today here is the local farmers' market. I shall wander down before lunch and pick up my fruit and veg.

There are at least four good bakers here. I haven't bought supermarket bread for years.

[Chris S]

I suspect most here are reasonably comfortable working/middle class folk, who are able to make these kinds of choices.

One or two members of my family have not been so fortunate in the way their lives have turned out, and they have very limited choices about where to shop. They can only ever afford supermarket "bread" - you know, the own brand, "Value" cotton-wool crap that's not really bread. They can only afford supermarket milk because milk via any other means is more expensive, and they've never ever been able to afford cars or holidays. For them, Tesco, Aldi and Lidl are as Good as It Gets - this isn't a habit for them, it's all they have.

[annie]

I am quite lucky to live very close to a Co-op which sells a wide variety of foods, sourced locally if possible, traided fairly and ethically.  Behind my house is a farm selling local produce, pick your own etc but it is expensive and this means many families are unable to purchase their weekly supplies there.  Also at the farm is an Eco Shop, selling washing up liquids, soaps, toothpastes, sanitary products, in fact just about every household item I might need.

I only go to Tesco if I absolutely have to, I find a lot of the staff rude and unhelpful.

Waitrose for me is a luxury as it is about 18  miles away and so I only visit there if I am in the town shopping for other items.

We have regular farmer's markets at the farm and also in the neighbouring town.

[Ian H]

I suspect most here are reasonably comfortable working/middle class folk, who are able to make these kinds of choices.

One or two members of my family have not been so fortunate in the way their lives have turned out, and they have very limited choices about where to shop. They can only ever afford supermarket "bread" - you know, the own brand, "Value" cotton-wool crap that's not really bread. They can only afford supermarket milk because milk via any other means is more expensive, and they've never ever been able to afford cars or holidays. For them, Tesco, Aldi and Lidl are as Good as It Gets - this isn't a habit for them, it's all they have.

Good point. Actually, I'm more in sympathy with the Lidl style of supermarket than the Tesco model.

[Julian]

I suspect most here are reasonably comfortable working/middle class folk, who are able to make these kinds of choices.

One or two members of my family have not been so fortunate in the way their lives have turned out, and they have very limited choices about where to shop. They can only ever afford supermarket "bread" - you know, the own brand, "Value" cotton-wool crap that's not really bread. They can only afford supermarket milk because milk via any other means is more expensive, and they've never ever been able to afford cars or holidays. For them, Tesco, Aldi and Lidl are as Good as It Gets - this isn't a habit for them, it's all they have.

I spent five years on really crap pay in London - once rent, bills and council tax had come out, I could afford to eat and that was about it.  Initially, I was buying cotton-wool bread, value beans etc because it seemed cheap.  Then my friend Al and I decided to have a bit of a health revolution, both bought a bicycle, and started getting a small mixed box once a fortnight from Abel & Cole.  It was a tenner at the time - so five quid a fortnight each.  The only other things we bought were rice (cheap) and pasta (cheap), and milk / teabags etc.  It worked out cheaper to eat proper food than our tesco value binging had been before.  The small mixed box was enough to last two people a fortnight, although by the end of every fortnight we always seemed to have a surplus of beetroot!

Tesco has its place but food doesn't have to be expensive.  Having said that, I still go to the supermarket if I'm having friends round and I need a large shop in one go without messing about too much.

[juliet]

I also keep meaning to try the anarchic 'Fareshare' food co-op place off the Walworth Road. You take your own containers for the rice etc so no packaging is wasted. They appartently also have a free bike workshop where people help each other fettle bikes, so they can't be bad. They're just open funny hours because they rely on volunteers which is why I never made it yet, need to make more effort.

You don't know what hours they open, do you?  I'd like to try this, as well.

ChrisS - I was about to make a similar point to Liz, having been in a very similar financial position for a few years.  (And buying from grocers/markets, if you buy in season, can work out cheaper than the supermarkets - plus you're less likely to impulse buy.)  It is, however, slightly more effort to eat real-food-cheap, and if you're working long hours for low pay, minding a family, often also having long travel times... then I agree it's not that straightforward.

IME buying decent bread isn't as much of an extra expense as it initially appears to be - because it actually fills you up, as opposed to the Tesco Value cottonwool stuff which is barely worth the chweing   (So you pay more for one loaf, but you don't *need* as many loaves per week or whatever.)

[Julian]

I solved the good-bread-is-expensive dilemma by not eating bread.  Pasta and rice are both cheap, and are one area where Tesco Value isn't much worse than the posh stuff.  Also: huge piles of mashed potato when you want a carb-fest. 

[Wowbagger]

Almost all the bread we eat is made in our bread maker. It works out pretty cheap - less than 50p per large loaf I think and only takes about 5 minutes' work and it's really tasty bread. The problem with bread makers is that they take up a lot of surface space and don't fit conveniently under cupboards because with the lid open they are almost 2' high.

[alchemy]

I solved the good-bread-is-expensive dilemma by not eating bread.  Pasta and rice are both cheap

It's a bit hard to make a sandwich with pasta or rice 

[Julian]

I solved the good-bread-is-expensive dilemma by not eating bread.  Pasta and rice are both cheap

It's a bit hard to make a sandwich with pasta or rice 

But possible with large slices of cooked potato. 

[alchemy]

I solved the good-bread-is-expensive dilemma by not eating bread.  Pasta and rice are both cheap

It's a bit hard to make a sandwich with pasta or rice 

But possible with large slices of cooked potato. 

It could almost be the ultimate cycling snack (probably be a bit mushy though) 

[Ian H]

Almost all the bread we eat is made in our bread maker. It works out pretty cheap - less than 50p per large loaf I think and only takes about 5 minutes' work and it's really tasty bread. The problem with bread makers is that they take up a lot of surface space and don't fit conveniently under cupboards because with the lid open they are almost 2' high.

I go through periods of making my own bread, but manually. It's a very satisfying task that I wouldn't want to automate. Otherwise my three preferred bakers are the Crusty Cottage in Tivvy, the Crusty Cob (no relation) in Honiton, and Parker's in Ealing, all of whom make superb bread.

[Charlotte]

Chalk up another Abel and Cole customer, I've just signed up for a small mixed box once a fortnight.

Will I grow to love beetroot?