[HAMR] Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)

[Jabba]

FWIW I believe that the use of Stava as a recording of the HAM'R was part of the rules.

Kurt's website says he had been approached, 'ages ago', but didn't like the rules and went away, then came back after some changes had been made, so he's been fully aware of the rules that he likes. 

I do agree that it has got a massive load of traffic for Strava but come on if you're going to do this mad year long ride you really ought to know exactly what you're letting yourself in for.

[Jabba]

There is another discussion somewhere on this forum about the Garmin connect bit and if you look Kurt's disputed data up it does give 215 miles, which as I've stated before seems more in line with his Tracker info; however if you look at the Garmin data with respect to distance it only gives him 178 miles for exactly the same information.

Seems to me his gripe should be with Garmin not Strava, other sites have been asking about known Garmin issues such as switching themselves off etc. 

[michaelo]

Talking of Strava, I see that Steve is down as winning the February MTS, 48.5km ahead of Kurt. Kurt's actual distance exceeded Steve in Feb (Kurt= 9139km; Steve = 8626km), but if I recall Kurt didn't join the MTS until part way though the month, so perhaps that's the reason. As a competitive rider, he may be kicking himself now for not joining earlier.

Joining part way through the month doesn't effect the number of miles recorded for those challenges - you can join on the last day & it takes your whole months mileage.

And as for more web traffic on Strava because of this - unlikely I would have thought.  Most (currently) interested in following this are probably already using the website.

[Jack_P]

His concerns with Strava should be contested. If it wasn't for the Strava files uploaded and in full public view there would be extra erroneous miles in his totals so far. As stated Garmin connect has been shown to be more fallible.
As it is he still has vehicle transfer miles in his total.

I have grown to like and admire Kurt, but one thing I find strange is that he, or his crew are claiming this considerably higher mileage for the 28th without any additional facts. Was the mileage missed at the end or the beginning or a strange extra loop, because the given route downloaded and checked on other mapping sites gives the lower distance.
As I've stated elsewhere, his claimed higher mileage would put his average speed for the GARMIN CONNECT file ride time at 23.5 mph.

Unless there was some freak tailwind this just doesn't wash. He is in danger of damaging his credibility here.

[Polar Bear]

He's in danger of permanently damaging his credibility everywhere, not just here.

[Jacamo]

I'm pretty sure it's a Garmin Connect issue. Alicia says that it was a two-ride day, yet only one file uploaded. If they used Garmin Connect to auto upload the data to Strava it just compounded the issue.

[michaelo]

Strava isn't dictated in the rules http://ultracycling.com/sections/records/max-mileage.php
I presume (!) he's been relying on more than one GPS device - but even if not, he always has the recommended "witness book" to validate the mileage, as per rule 11...

[Fidgetbuzz]

Quote from rules

Ride data will be posted daily within 24 hours of the completion of the ride.


So Kurt - where is your data posted by midnight 1st March to validate this higher claim??

[aoxomoxoa]

So is anyone going to rat on him? 

[red marley]

I would imagine that it must be immensely frustrating to have ridden the last 40 miles of a 220 mile day only to find out that for whatever reason it had not been logged. Looking at his daily movement patterns (28th Feb: bottom row in the blue chart), he does appear to have finished unusually early, so I can believe that he may well have put in a further 40 mile ride at the end of the day.

However, if the data have not been recorded or uploaded (and I see nowhere where it might have been), I think he has to take it on the chin rather than throw accusations around about poor service or value for money from Strava. And I'd have more respect for his position if he or his teammate had put as much effort into disputing his vehicle assisted overestimate as he has done for this possible underestimate.

[geraldc]

These are his Garmin logs https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/708268037

On Garmin no one can make a dig about his lack of climbing or use of a bent, things that are quite common in his strava comments

[Polar Bear]

So is anyone going to rat on him? 

He should 'rat' as you put it on himself.   This challenge is as much about honesty and integrity as it is a mighty physical challenge.

Seems to me that Kurt is happy to flirt with the rules to his advantage but is not man enough to take one on the chin IF he gets a bite back.

[hillbilly]

Quote from rules

Ride data will be posted daily within 24 hours of the completion of the ride.


So Kurt - where is your data posted by midnight 1st March to validate this higher claim??

Don't such things almost have a separate timescale/process when there is a "dispute", as opposed to the normal course of events?

[LMT]

Quote from rules

Ride data will be posted daily within 24 hours of the completion of the ride.


So Kurt - where is your data posted by midnight 1st March to validate this higher claim??

He did not finish riding at midnight, therefore the above is incorrect.

[LMT]

When you are 650 miles up on a LFL basis I think he can afford to lose 40 miles.

GO TARZAN

[mattc]

IIRC Strava have scrapped Steve's fees(or something) as a form of sponsorship.

Did they do similar for Kurt?

[hillbilly]

When you are 650 miles up on a LFL basis I think he can afford to lose 40 miles.

More so if you are 1 mile behind after 12 months. 

I suspect that the end of year totals are going to be a lot closer than the current difference suggests.  And I wouldn't be at all surprised if Kurt is concerned about that as well (or at least wants to make sure there is a big a buffer as possible).

If I were in Kurt's shoes, I'd be scrapping and scrabbling for every ridden mile I could.  I'm a bit confused by the whole affair though.  It's not clear from what I've read whether Strava or Garmin or both are borked.

[mattc]

Quote from rules

Ride data will be posted daily within 24 hours of the completion of the ride.


So Kurt - where is your data posted by midnight 1st March to validate this higher claim??

Don't such things almost have a separate timescale/process when there is a "dispute", as opposed to the normal course of events?

That would certainly seem reasonable, and consistent with appeals processes in most major sporting events.
But I dont recall reading any such thing, so who knows?

[Jonas L]

I quickly plotted the route in Bike Route Toaster. 190 miles. http://bikeroutetoaster.com/BRTWebUI/Course/768431

And as you can see Bike Route Toaster makes some weird deviations, so actual distance should be lower. So in my view Strava is correct, Garmin Connect is off.

[mattc]

I would imagine that it must be immensely frustrating to have ridden the last 40 miles of a 220 mile day only to find out that for whatever reason it had not been logged. Looking at his daily movement patterns (28th Feb: bottom row in the blue chart), he does appear to have finished unusually early, so I can believe that he may well have put in a further 40 mile ride at the end of the day.

However, if the data have not been recorded or uploaded (and I see nowhere where it might have been), I think he has to take it on the chin rather than throw accusations around about poor service or value for money from Strava. And I'd have more respect for his position if he or his teammate had put as much effort into disputing his vehicle assisted overestimate as he has done for this possible underestimate.

Yup.

And as Jack posted earlier, he seems to have bugger-all corroborative evidence, and a 23mph+ average for the day looks VERY dodgy.

Drop this now Tarzan - its' for the best in the long run 

[Climberruss]

IIRC Strava have scrapped Steve's fees(or something) as a form of sponsorship.

Did they do similar for Kurt?

One would hope so.

[geraldc]

Photo lifted from Tarzan's facebook page. Does look pretty idyllic for a bent

[JonBuoy]

IIRC Strava have scrapped Steve's fees(or something) as a form of sponsorship.

Did they do similar for Kurt?

One would hope so.

Steve is a Premium Member.  Kurt is not.

[mattc]

IIRC Strava have scrapped Steve's fees(or something) as a form of sponsorship.

Did they do similar for Kurt?

One would hope so.

Steve is a Premium Member.  Kurt is not.

Take that, yanks!

[citoyen]

Garmin Edge devices use strange formats where the speed and distance data are recorded in additional fields. If they haven't reset or been reset correctly you can have discrepancies. If the track shows X and the claimed distance shows Y then you have to take the track. It's not a problem with Strava but with a buggy GPS IMO. If he doesn't have a backup GPS then he should sort one out.

I don't know if this is strictly relevant but I had a discrepancy between Garmin Connect and Strava on the Wye Wednesday a couple of weeks ago. And I know exactly what caused it...

At the start of the ride, I tried to load the course into my Edge 510. After several minutes of waiting, I just pressed the start button and set off riding but eventually (after 28km) I realised that the course was never going to load, so I reset the device, continuing without the course.

Now, the clever thing about the 510 is that you can turn it off while recording and it will resume recording when you turn it on again. So Garmin Connect did record those first 28km as part of the course. However, it didn't show my GPS track for those 28km.

I've set Garmin to auto upload rides to Strava, but when I looked at the ride on Strava, it showed the same track as on Garmin Connect but 28km less overall distance.

(As an aside, I suspect the problem with the course file was that it was too large - I'd made it at Ridewithgps.com and exported the correct tcx file format as I have successfully done before, and I have no idea why it was over 2MB, but there you go.)