A graphic example of passing too close

[blackpuddinonnabike]

Taken at the Fife CA 10TT on Sunday 24th August, just as the rider had started on his way.

Now granted this is a main road, but the driver had a good 100 yards of straight road before this to see the gaggle of cyclists waiting to head off, and to see that a van was coming in the opposite direction. It would have lost him at most 10 seconds on his journey time to slow down, wait for the van to pass the other way, and then pass the cyclist with decent space to spare.

So what did he do? Well notice that the driver side wheels aren't even close to passing the centre line. He simply squeezed between cyclist and van.

Too close, and symptomatic of the way cyclists are regarded on the road. So much for the Cycling Team GB effect... (although to be fair most other drivers seemed pretty reasonable, just this Audi eejit came too close for comfort).

[GruB]

How close is that?  Your photo is at an angle that makes it unclear.

[blackpuddinonnabike]

How close is that?  Your photo is at an angle that makes it unclear.

Standard single lane road, car isn't on the white line, entirely within the left lane, so can only be 2 feet from the left kerb at most, so at most a foot from the cyclist.

[GruB]

I think that is an excellent example of riding too close into the kerb.  When I used to do that on my commute the cars would try and squeeze alongside without going into the other lane.  Without actually considering and assessing the overtake.
Good example, well done.

[gonzo]

Yeah, but think how much of a slipstreaming effect the cyclist will get!

[David Martin]

But to give it the due consideration, this is just after a rider has started off, right in front of the car giving them very little time to react. Passing a stationary cyclist is very different to passing a moving one.

..d

[Greenbank]

But to give it the due consideration, this is just after a rider has started off, right in front of the car giving them very little time to react. Passing a stationary cyclist is very different to passing a moving one.

Do TT starters really start people on the minute regardless of traffic?

[Palinurus]

But to give it the due consideration, this is just after a rider has started off, right in front of the car giving them very little time to react. Passing a stationary cyclist is very different to passing a moving one.

Do TT starters really start people on the minute regardless of traffic?

Yes, generally.

[GruB]

Having hooked the laptop up to the www after drilling a hole in the wall for the network cable, I can now look at this pic in much better clarity.

I don't think it is too close at all.  There is at least 2 feet between the car and rider, at least.  I think this is one of those pictures a bit like the rowing when you see the boat coming towards the line from the different angle?

[Lucky]

I don't think it is too close at all.

What the Highway Code says about it is:

163 Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should

• ...
• give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car

It's a poorly worded rule, as it's not entirely clear whether it is talking about the gap between car and cyclist, or the total space left for the cyclist, but I believe the correct interpretation is that the total space available to a cyclist being overtaken should be as much as would be available to a car (i.e. the overtaking vehicle should leave the cyclist an entire 3 metre lane). This interpretation is supported by the accompanying picture.

You clearly couldn't fit a car in the space available to the cyclist in the photo...

[tonycollinet]

I may get shouted down for this.

But if the cyclist has just set off - that means they have set off in front of an approaching vehicle. This is akin to a car pulling out in front of someone - isn't it?

If you are setting off from the side of the road, you should wait for the road behind you to be clear first.

[blackpuddinonnabike]

Having hooked the laptop up to the www after drilling a hole in the wall for the network cable, I can now look at this pic in much better clarity.

I don't think it is too close at all.  There is at least 2 feet between the car and rider, at least.  I think this is one of those pictures a bit like the rowing when you see the boat coming towards the line from the different angle?

I can guarantee it's closer than that, I'll take the car back up at some point and get a better photo to show the actual width.

I may get shouted down for this.

But if the cyclist has just set off - that means they have set off in front of an approaching vehicle. This is akin to a car pulling out in front of someone - isn't it?

If you are setting off from the side of the road, you should wait for the road behind you to be clear first.

I can see that, by the same token there was a line of five cyclists behind this guy. All on the road, and highly visible. Now seeing such an obstruction ahead would you expect the driver to plough on (as he did) or at least modify or moderate his driving accordingly.

Mind you, I have to admit I was surprised they started people off no matter what the traffic was doing.

[Chris S]

This is what bothers me about competitive cycling on public roads. I've never been able to quite get it straight in my head that it's OK.

Releasing competitors into the traffic because "that's the way our event works" invites situations like this. Also, the cyclist is probably much more bothered about his time, and getting into his rhythm than he is about how far away he's riding from the kerb, and traffic.

Some TT courses involve T junctions from minor to major roads. If you are racing against the clock, are you really going to give way properly? One of the North Norfolk TT courses uses a very tight radius roundabout on the busy A148 that is a bugger when it's wet, Is that really safe?

Having said all that - yes, the cyclist in the photo is being passed too close - no question about it. You have the number of the car. Complain to local police if you have a mind...

[Lucky]

I may get shouted down for this.

But if the cyclist has just set off - that means they have set off in front of an approaching vehicle. This is akin to a car pulling out in front of someone - isn't it?

If you are setting off from the side of the road, you should wait for the road behind you to be clear first.

I agree that the cyclist may well have been in the wrong pulling away in front of the vehicle (it's impossible to tell from the photo, as we don't know how far away the car was when the rider started). But even if the cyclist was in the wrong, that doesn't make it acceptable for the driver to potentially endanger the life of another road user by overtaking dangerously (unless the car was so close when the rider started that he couldn't slow down and wait behind the cyclist).

But then again, I have seen cars overtaking much closer than that, and given the standard of driving around here (North Devon), I think I'd be waving to thank any driver that gave me that much room! 

[gonzo]

Please, do not complain! As others have said, it may well be that the cyclist has just been pushed off and thus was in the wrong. At worst, your complaint could actually see the cyclist getting a visit from the police.

This guy can stand up for himself. When I've got my pointy hat on, cars and lorries passing close is actually a good thing. He could quite easily feel the same way.

To clarify, cyclists usually start off in a layby or slip-road thus aren't released directly into traffic.

[blackpuddinonnabike]

Please, do not complain! As others have said, it may well be that the cyclist has just been pushed off and thus was in the wrong. At worst, your complaint could actually see the cyclist getting a visit from the police.

This guy can stand up for himself. When I've got my pointy hat on, cars and lorries passing close is actually a good thing. He could quite easily feel the same way.

To clarify, cyclists usually start off in a layby or slip-road thus aren't released directly into traffic.

To clarify further, they were starting straight on the road in this particular case. Checking some other photos this pass happened about 15 yards from being pushed off.

[mattc]

Clearly we have 2 different issues here:

- The car is too close; the best estimate here is 2 feet. If you put your hands together, that's the distance between your elbows as you read this post. (Less if you're bigger than me!) Who really thinks that is a safe distance from a cyclist?

- The driver may not have had much option. If this is 15m [edit] after the start, I think the rider has brought this upon himself. I'm sure different clubs do things differently, but from my experience if a rider is not happy about the traffic behind when his minute comes, no-one is FORCING him to start then. Our starters always give you a warning if things are a bit iffy.

[GruB]

Look at the picture.  It doesn't look too close for me.  The rider is too close to the kerb though.

[David Martin]

Please, do not complain! As others have said, it may well be that the cyclist has just been pushed off and thus was in the wrong. At worst, your complaint could actually see the cyclist getting a visit from the police.

This guy can stand up for himself. When I've got my pointy hat on, cars and lorries passing close is actually a good thing. He could quite easily feel the same way.

To clarify, cyclists usually start off in a layby or slip-road thus aren't released directly into traffic.

To clarify further, they were starting straight on the road in this particular case. Checking some other photos this pass happened about 15 yards from being pushed off.

What was the route for this 10?

..d

[Wendy]

Look at the picture.  It doesn't look too close for me.  The rider is too close to the kerb though.

I agree that the rider is too close to the kerb, but the car is definitely too close to the rider also.  I think the rider could easily touch the car, which is a sure sign that the car driver has stuffed up.  Look at the picture from highway code rule 163 to judge.

[blackpuddinonnabike]

Look at the picture.  It doesn't look too close for me.  The rider is too close to the kerb though.

Should I mention that I took the photo, was at the road, saw the starts, drove on the road, know how wide it is?

David this start was on the A92, just south of Freuchie.

[vorsprung]

That is too close to pass

But let's face it- it is an everyday occurance to be passed closer than this photo shows

And at high speed.  And by a high sided vehicle.

[David Martin]

Look at the picture.  It doesn't look too close for me.  The rider is too close to the kerb though.

Should I mention that I took the photo, was at the road, saw the starts, drove on the road, know how wide it is?

David this start was on the A92, just south of Freuchie.

The FI-7 course. The start is a bit of a ski jump. The road is not particularly wide and the cyclists tend to congregate in the farm track opposite.

The finish is just north of Freuchie on the minor road where everyone parks?

Just trying to work out where your 'going the wrong way' pic was. The only thing I can think of is the triangle at the last junction.

Or it is taking a totally different course.

..d

[blackpuddinonnabike]

Look at the picture.  It doesn't look too close for me.  The rider is too close to the kerb though.

Should I mention that I took the photo, was at the road, saw the starts, drove on the road, know how wide it is?

David this start was on the A92, just south of Freuchie.

The FI-7 course. The start is a bit of a ski jump. The road is not particularly wide and the cyclists tend to congregate in the farm track opposite.

The finish is just north of Freuchie on the minor road where everyone parks?

Just trying to work out where your 'going the wrong way' pic was. The only thing I can think of is the triangle at the last junction.

Or it is taking a totally different course.

..d

Nope, that's spot on. He rode past the turn I was at, carried on and went down the other side of the triangle.

[David Martin]

Look at the picture.  It doesn't look too close for me.  The rider is too close to the kerb though.

Should I mention that I took the photo, was at the road, saw the starts, drove on the road, know how wide it is?

David this start was on the A92, just south of Freuchie.

The FI-7 course. The start is a bit of a ski jump. The road is not particularly wide and the cyclists tend to congregate in the farm track opposite.

The finish is just north of Freuchie on the minor road where everyone parks?

Just trying to work out where your 'going the wrong way' pic was. The only thing I can think of is the triangle at the last junction.

Or it is taking a totally different course.

..d

Nope, that's spot on. He rode past the turn I was at, carried on and went down the other side of the triangle.

That's the course I did my PB on - 26.55.

I can't see how he'd miss the turn, with a marshal typically int eh middle of the road and all.. (It isn't the busiest of roads, even by Fife standards.)

..d