PBP Registration website

[LittleWheelsandBig]

BRM are 200-1000km. LRM are 1200(+)km.

[quixoticgeek]

BRM are 200-1000km. LRM are 1200(+)km.

Where would an 1100 fit in ?

J

[Ivo]

BRM are 200-1000km. LRM are 1200(+)km.

Where would an 1100 fit in ?

J

Nowhere, easiest is an upgrade to a 1200.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

They don't exist, except for locally homologated brevets like AUK's BRs. There are basically no internationally recognised 500s, 700s, 800s, 900s or 1100s. BRMs are, save for very rare exceptions, 200, 300, 400, 600 or 1000km.

[quixoticgeek]

They don't exist, except for locally homologated brevets like AUK's BRs. There are basically no internationally recognised 700s, 800s, 900s or 1100s. BRMs are, save for very rare exceptions, 200, 300, 400, 600 or 1000km.

I thought above 1000 it went to LRM, rather than ACP? What are the standard multiples after 1200? 1400 (LEL), then any others?

J

[LittleWheelsandBig]

LRM starts from 1200km with 100km nominal increments upward, though there is some potential allowance (rarely) for intermediate distances. Italy has a 1600km brevet every couple of years but longer brevets are often one-offs. There were 2000km brevets in 2000 and a couple of longer ones since then but those brevets tend not to be repeated.

[mattc]

Is LRM/BRM basically like a venn diagram, or is one entirely a subset of the other?
I must admit I had thought they were synonymous.

I will no doubt be corrected within milliseconds, but ... I think as a rider you can treat them as the same, for all practical purposes.

[Wycombewheeler]

The solution is simple: to implement a mandatory exclusion of those riders that have successfully completed PBP on two or more occasions - thus giving others a chance a participate, making it a ride for the many, not the few

meanwhile on facebook I see the opposite suggested, from someone who had ridden it 5 times before and feels he deserves a place more than people who are not french that did a longer BRM than him last year..

For those who are working towards their ACP Randonneur 5000 or Randonneur 10000 medals, missing out on a PBP can mean having to wait 4 years, and starting again on all the other requirements.

With something like PBP which is run only every 4 years, and has such a finite number of spaces, what is the best way of allocating spaces?

The current system is not perfect, but it's pretty clear. It favours those who have been riding long distances already.

There's something romantic about the going from zero to PBP in a year, but I think given the popularity increase of long distance cycling, it doesn't seem wrong to have the prequalifiers.

Maybe they could have a pool of 300 places allocated by lottery for those who didn't have a prequalifier BRM, but have completed the SR series in the year of the event.

Oh, and if they could accept an alternative 1200 instead of PBP for the Randonneur 5000/10000 awards, it might take some of the pressure off the event[1]

J

[1]I'm guessing those chasing these medals are in a minority tho... It's the only reason I want to do PBP

Shouldn't apply to those who rode in 2015 as they should have completed their randonneur 5000. Another reason to prioritise those trying to enter for the first time over those with a history of participation.

[Ajax Bay]

(Sunday 3 Feb 2238 GMT) Another 127 have pre-registered in the last 4 days: 2075 places shown as available (for those with a longest BRM in 2018 of 400) to try to pre-register in 7 days' time.
I wonder what proportion of the thirteen thousand 400s are 'duplicates' and what proportion were ridden by Super Randonneurs (2018).

   ACP 2018 homologations [and pre-registrants]
    1000km   2431  [~1960]
    600km    10569  [~2410]
    400km    13067
    300km    20333

[simonp]

In 2015 more entrants came from the 600k group than the 400k. ACP's analysis suggested there'd be 9% of spaces left over after the 400k. This assumes the same ratio and there will be some margin for error with that.

9% will not be enough for all 300k on the same analysis.

[grams]

Whichever new group gained access last night has taken a grand total of 33 places. Oddly most of them 80h slots.

[Ajax Bay]

Whichever new group gained access last night has taken a grand total of 33 places. Oddly most of them 80h slots.

Aarh! The 'special 33'. Earlier ie between 30 Jan and 3 Feb, they seem to have moved another 120 (say) from the 80hr to the 90hr availability. It could be that similar ACP 'swapping' is the reason for the reduction in the number of 80hr slots available. 2042 places left.

[Wycombewheeler]

(Sunday 3 Feb 2238 GMT) Another 127 have pre-registered in the last 4 days: 2075 places shown as available (for those with a longest BRM in 2018 of 400) to try to pre-register in 7 days' time.
I wonder what proportion of the thirteen thousand 400s are 'duplicates' and what proportion were ridden by Super Randonneurs (2018).

   ACP 2018 homologations [and pre-registrants]
    1000km   2431  [~1960]
    600km    10569  [~2410]
    400km    13067
    300km    20333

interesting that of 2431 BRM1000s 1960 places were taken up, this suggests greater than 80% of people riding a 1000km brevet entered.
Assuming all the 1000km riders did a 600km (I skipped 600km last year, there must be others) then only 2400 of the 8000 additional qualifiers took up a place, (30%)
Then we see only 2500 extra riders gained a 400km brevet that didn't get a 600km, assuming their take up is also 30% (i don't see why it would be greater than the 600s) that takes 750 places of the remaining 2000, leaving 1250 places for the 300s, but there are 7000 of them potentially so we are still looking at 40-60% getting a place.
But if the desire to enter tails away further among riders as the distances get shorter (or people interested in entering are more likely to have ridden further as per the advice) or the number of multiple rides by the same rider increases then it may be that there is not a surplus of 300km riders who will be disappointed.
I did eleven 200s, three 300s, one 400 and one 1000 last year. Not sure how typical that is but I suspect it is not unusual for people to do fewer rides of the longer distances. 

In 2015 more entrants came from the 600k group than the 400k. ACP's analysis suggested there'd be 9% of spaces left over after the 400k. This assumes the same ratio and there will be some margin for error with that.

9% will not be enough for all 300k on the same analysis.

there are two potential reasons for the increase
1) there is a 60% increase in people riding long distance, consistent at all distances and the proportion who are interested in riding PBP is unchanged, in which case all the 400s will be in and half of the 300s
2) People took the ACP warnings about needing longer distance rides to qualify seriously, and there is a shift towards riding longer rides among the riders who want to ride, with that number not increasing significantly.

It could well be that there are many riders in distant parts of the world riding long brevets, who when push comes to shove can't justify the best part of a fortnight in europe (and all the cost that entails) for a bike ride

[Phil W]

The only BRM I did last year was a 1000, the longest ride before was a 200.  No 600, did a 300 BR three months later, and a DIY 400 another month after that to get the SR.  I believe there was a 1000 running for first time in the Far East that saw 500 riders.

I would imagine ACP who know exactly how many riders are eligible in the 400/300 BRM lists (and not the 1000 / 600 lists) will have factored it in to the figures they have presented.

[Greenbank]

It could well be that there are many riders in distant parts of the world riding long brevets, who when push comes to shove can't justify the best part of a fortnight in europe (and all the cost that entails) for a bike ride

The cost of pre-registering is tiny in comparison so many may do that speculatively.

[Ajax Bay]

interesting that of 2431 BRM1000s 1960 places were taken up, this suggests greater than 80% of people riding a 1000km brevet entered.
Assuming all the 1000km riders did a 600km (I skipped 600km last year, there must be others) then only 2400 of the 8000 additional qualifiers took up a place, (30%)
Then we see only 2500 extra riders gained a 400km brevet that didn't get a 600km, assuming their take up is also 30% (i don't see why it would be greater than the 600s) that takes 750 places of the remaining 2000, leaving 1250 places for the 300s, but there are 7000 of them potentially so we are still looking at 40-60% getting a place.
But if the desire to enter tails away further among riders as the distances get shorter (or people interested in entering are more likely to have ridden further as per the advice) or the number of multiple rides by the same rider increases then it may be that there is not a surplus of 300km riders who will be disappointed."

It could well be that there are many riders in distant parts of the world riding long brevets, who when push comes to shove can't justify the best part of a fortnight in europe (and all the cost that entails) for a bike ride.
The cost of pre-registering is tiny in comparison so many may do that speculatively.

I think the assumption that of the 13000+ 400s ridden last year only 2500 are 'longest distance' ones is an underestimate. I surmise that a good portion - particularly the element that will want to ride PBP - are those who read the ACP advice to ride 'at least a 300' and rode one more to be sure - and the 400 aspirant pre-registers will all get a place. Then there's a much larger cohort (within the 20,000+ 300s) who want to ride PBP, heeded the ACP advice and rode a 300 (as their longest ride), but will need to be quick on 25 Feb (if ACP have not revised the pre-registration detail by then ('we'll look at this and tell people on 17 Feb')).

[grams]

Wasn’t the “official” advice to do a 400? Though the only place I’ve seen it is this here forum - I don’t think it appears on the ACP brochure or the AUK website, and from the comments on Facebook other countries didn’t pass it on to their members either.

(And at least some people seem to have intepreted “you should ride a pre-qualifier” as “a 200 guarantees a place”)

[Ajax Bay]

Wasn’t the “official” advice to do a 400? Though the only place I’ve seen it is this here forum - I don’t think it appears on the ACP brochure or the AUK website, and from the comments on Facebook other countries didn’t pass it on to their members either.

(And at least some people seem to have intepreted “you should ride a pre-qualifier” as “a 200 guarantees a place”)

I was going on (inaccurately remembered) this from @Somnolent - so you're right: the recommendation was for a 400k in 2018, but it was one offered by ACP, though (perhaps deliberately) not in print.

The advice from ACP to the delegates at the 2018 presentation was that you should aim to complete the longest possible BRM in 2018 in order to be sure of being able to pre-register.  . . .   They commented that since 2015 there has been a massive growth in randonneuring (what we call audax) around the world, and their back-of-the-fag-packet calculation was that:
a) if you do not ride any BRMs this season - and therefore are unable to pre-register, you are unlikely to get a place.
b) the available places are unlikely to sell out on the first two pre-registration slots [1000+ and 600], they think that 400km ought to be sufficient - but no guarantees.   

[mattc]

<one-man crowd-sourcing:>

I'm pretty sure that the word-on-the-street in 2014 and 2018 - stated by many experts and wannabe-experts - was "you should be alright with a 400".

(I didn't remember any official statement, but Ajax seems to have found one below  )

[Ivo]

Wasn’t the “official” advice to do a 400? Though the only place I’ve seen it is this here forum - I don’t think it appears on the ACP brochure or the AUK website, and from the comments on Facebook other countries didn’t pass it on to their members either.

(And at least some people seem to have intepreted “you should ride a pre-qualifier” as “a 200 guarantees a place”)

As Randonneurs Netherlands we did stress that constantly in 2018.

[Phil W]

Wasn’t the “official” advice to do a 400? Though the only place I’ve seen it is this here forum - I don’t think it appears on the ACP brochure or the AUK website, and from the comments on Facebook other countries didn’t pass it on to their members either.

(And at least some people seem to have intepreted “you should ride a pre-qualifier” as “a 200 guarantees a place”)

The 400 bit was covered on a post on the AUK forum on Jan 15 2018. The source was the ACP awards night not many days before that.

[Ivo]

For this PBP there'll be 2 kinds of Frenchmen around.
Those form the audaxing heartlands of North/Pays de Calais, Ile de France and Bretagne who know very well what happened and have been riding brevets for the past 3-4 years.
And those from other area's, most of them just suffering from a rude awakening that there's hardly a startspot to be had.
Especially French organisers suffer from the issue that a lot of riders don't care about brevets for the non PBP years and only pop up in a PBP year. You can't build much organisation on the basis of this behaviour.

[FifeingEejit]

It could well be that there are many riders in distant parts of the world riding long brevets, who when push comes to shove can't justify the best part of a fortnight in europe (and all the cost that entails) for a bike ride

The cost of pre-registering is tiny in comparison so many may do that speculatively.

On 600 sign up day €30 was £26 if you got the Visa rate, or £28 if you took the paypal rate
Today I get an exchange rate of  2446 Rupees to the Euro.

Using the global indicator of the common items in the McDonalds menu prices
A Filet-O-Fish costs 105r in India or £3.19 in the UK

So PBP costs 8 Filet-O-Fish in the UK and 23 Filet of Fish in India

So anyone in India wanting to do PBP is going to have a fairly high income, compared to those in the UK not just for travel but also entry fee.

Taking pay
Median Software Developer annual Salary in India is 440,425 Rs and in the UK it's 32,500
Or 4,195 Indian Filet o' Fish Vs 10,118 UK Filet o' Fish

So basically, what I'm saying is the €30 fee for pre-registration isn't much money in Europe, but in India it's a lot more even for the sort of people likely to be attracted by PBP.
I'd suspect those from further afield and earning in weaker currencies than the Pound are likely to be more determined to ride it after for paying pre-registration than those who can look at it and think it's only 10 fillet of fish they've thrown away.

[Exit Stage Left]

Travel and accommodation prices are cheaper a long way ahead. So anyone with ambitions to ride PBP from a long way away will have ensured entry with a 1,000+ ride, and booked early. Someone in Europe can wait to pick up spare places on the off-chance.

[simonp]

Places have dropped to 2011 - about 200 places gone since I last checked.

Best make sure I have a working internet connection on Sunday at 11pm. That probably means not being at home.